Why hasn't anyone just made an FPGA emulator box that comes

File: f445ad491d036f791792c26c6642bbd5_preview_featured.jpg (51KB, 628x472px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 628x472px

>>3782416
see: >>3781626

File: 1457148116605458.jpg (48KB, 800x450px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 800x450px

>>3782420
Some very brave and dedicated people tried. Their hard work was killed before it had a chance to shine due to modern "collector" elitism.

>>3782416
They do sell some of these things though. In stores near me they're selling a Sega Genesis box preloaded with an amazing 50 games for like 50-60 euros. This is the same thing, only you can't change what's on the flash cart.

I think that the issue is that people (particularly hipster normies) don't want to put too much work into it. They like a machine that works out of the box and immediately does what it needs to do, which is either playing preloaded games or accepting their 'vintage' $200 Earthbound (mint condition) cart.

They don't want to spend time looking for roms, it's too daunting even if a simple google search gets you a direct link to the rom on emuparadise.

And those people who *are* prepared to look for ROMs are also less afraid to buy a Raspberry Pi they need to configure (they're used to configuring emulators anyways) or something like a PSP that they'd need to install custom firware on.

>>3782429
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ5JikF2QhU

awful bait

File: jerry fast.jpg (13KB, 348x348px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 348x348px

>>3782416
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEfVxeoBaUk

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/page-1

File: 145710393798.jpg (651KB, 1198x800px) Image search: [Google]

651KB, 1198x800px

>>3782429
top kek

>>3782645
Like I said, killed before its time. The speculators and resellers who profit off the current inflated retro game prices knew that something groundbreaking like the Chameleon would destabilize the market and make retro gaming availabile to everyone rather than just those "in the scene". A planned, concentrated effort was made to discredit and humiliate the Chameleon team and not even give the machine a chance because it was too big a threat to the rising prices of cartridges (which has only gone up, by the way). It's a real shame, we could have had a second golden age of 2D games but progress is always going to be hindered by the people in power.

the Analogue NT Mini is FPGA and there's 'official unofficial' firmware that allows for exactly what you're asking for. There's another FPGA NES that I'm currently forgetting the name of. Please PLEASE do some research before looking stupid on the internet. Also don't talk about the fucking Retron 5

>>3782994
Can the NT Mini actually load ROMs without a flash cart though?

I don't see the difference between emulating hardware and emulating software. It's all fake anyway, if you wanted authenticity you'd buy the real thing

>>3783013
FPGA is not emulation. An FPGA can simulate an original hardware configuration much more precisely. Emulation can cause glitches and there is usually some lag inherent to emulation.

File: AVSbig[1].png (266KB, 600x482px) Image search: [Google]

266KB, 600x482px

>>3782994
The NT Mini doesn't play ROMs (although it supports EverDrives) and only plays NES games. OP is looking for an all-in-one emulator system which is definitely not what the NT Mini is.

Also it's $450 which is fucking robbery. If you just want to play your original NES carts in HD you can get a NES AVS (pic related) for $170:

http://www.retrousb.com/product_info.php?cPath=36&products_id=78

>>3782929
>not sure if trolling or just retarded

File: chameleondock2.jpg (121KB, 640x457px) Image search: [Google]

121KB, 640x457px

The Chameleon 64 is pretty capable although there are a few catches:

>requires either a Commodore 64 or an ugly dock in order to work
>no HDMI (has VGA though)
>mostly for simulating 8-bit and 16-bit with limited console support

It's more of a thing you'd want if you are into 8-bit computers. Something like the Analogue NT Mini or the NES AVS that can simulate multiple consoles and has an SD slot for ROMs would be more along the lines of what the OP is suggesting.

Is there something like the AVS but for 486+SoundBlaster/Ultrasound+SVGA? I have heard of the MIST FPGA box, but most cores I see are for older systems.

>>3783372
Call me whatever you want. It's just like with the Chameleon team getting called scammers. The misinformation campaign worked just as they planned, now the team has no credibility and are just seen as a bunch of hacks and thieves. These guys put their heart and soul into the project; not just their own reputations but financing prototype development out of their own pockets. Now anyone who supported the console is seen as an idiot, and this group of people will never see their vision realized thanks to "collectors" who discredited the whole thing.

>>3782416
Because that requires time and money
Because there are millions of consoles sitting in attics that do it better

>>3782429
A google search for FPGA console brave and dedicated murder came up with nothing. Sounds like you're full of shit kiddo.

>>3783013
That's because you're autistic. And ignorant. Read up on hardware emulation. The more you know.

>>3783645
Not the anon you're replying to but the only misinformation I see here is coming from you. I'd never heard of this thing before but it seems likely your misrepresentation and white knighting may have actually been what killed the thing.

>>3783645
Maybe you're just funposting and I'm wasting keystrokes responding to you, but the Coleco Chameleon was a scam in every sense of the word. It was being made by an "ideas guy" and he had absolutely no means of producing a product. Every time he showed a "prototype" it turned out to be a fake, whether it was a SNES Jr. at the toy fair or an old PCI capture card that he hoped no-one would recognize (>>3782852).

I don't know what his intentions were-- maybe he was trying to line his own pockets with no intention of ever making a product, or maybe he was a naive moron who thought as long as he could bamboozle someone into funding him he'd eventually be able to hire someone to design the stupid thing. It doesn't really matter, because the point is that he was proven to be habitually dishonest about his project. He got caught in a lie with the Super NES "prototype," so how did he try to make amends? With another lie.

If he had just been honest and admitted he didn't know how to make a game console, instead of putting out fakes, people would have shrugged their shoulders and forgotten about it. Instead he destroyed his own reputation as an individual and will forever be remembered as a laughing stock, and he has absolutely no-one to blame but himself.

Personally, I think it was a dumb idea anyway. "Hey, let's make a weak, cartridge-based game console with no internet and put it inside of an Atari Jaguar while calling it something else." If the thing ever even came out (which it wouldn't have) it would have ended up being an even bigger dud than the Ouya.

>>3783935
The team personally funded prototype development and were having amazing results before the smear campaign. Interest was booming until some former contributors who were jealous of the success of Retro Magazine and gamegavel decided they would try and convince the reseller market that the Retro VGS would pop the retro bubble. Suddenly people would be able to not only play their old cartridges but also new indie titles and rereleases by giants of the classic game scene like Konami and Data East (as I said, interest was high). The Retro VGS would have been the focal point of any classic gamer's collection, providing a competent and versatile all-in-one solution with bug-free cartridge releases of new and exciting indie and homebrew games playing perfectly on the FPGA core that can't be matched by Retrons or other hardware clone emulation machines. John Carlsen knew he was into something special, and after making progress (with Retro's money) he cut and ran with his patents, leaving the Retro team high and dry. The smear campaign didn't end even when the Chameleon project started, in fact it was much worse. The resellers had convinced the classic gaming community that this was snake oil, despite the "evidence" having never been proved and being nothing more than speculation. The functioning prototype appeared at the toy fair, and every one of the "proven" claims that it was fake cannot be verified. The clear case machine which people point to as the most damning evidence was taken completely out of the context, and the team explained that capture hardware was going to be part of the final design, as well as the need to repurpose hardware from any resources available due to the lack of funding. You bought into the hate campaign hook line and sinker, and the absolutely ludicrous second-hand game market will only keep climbing in price. We could have had a new 2D renaissance picking up where the NeoGeo left off but people would rather collect expensive plastic.

File: 1486010485552.png (75KB, 348x301px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 348x301px

Like the Retro Sigma?

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/retroengine-sigma-mini-video-game-console-cool

>>3784053
>2D renaissance
Not that it's the same, but there's a ton of indie games done in that retro aesthetic you're talking about on Steam, consoles, and handhelds. Just like the old 2d games in the past, some are great, some are okay, and some are lousy. Anyways, stop posting, you're embarrassing yourself.

>>3784053
There's these neat things called paragraphs. You should look into them sometime.

>>3784053
Never thought I'd get to be red pilled on the retro VGA thanks anon. It feels great.

>>3784053
>>3784306
>samefagging

>>3782416
FPGAs capable enough to run things better than a NES fullspeed are fucking pricy ($500 and up, $6k and up if you're even gonna try aiming for 5th gen stuff at all) is a pretty big reason why it's not gonna happen soon and switching console would involve more work I'm pretty sure.
Right now for example the VeriSNES targets a Altera DE2-115 and II can't seem to find it for less than 500.

>>3784924
ASICs capable of running snes shit full speed were a few bucks ages ago. Just because some kid today runs their shit on an expensive dev board doesn't mean it's necessary.

>>3784060
The Chameleon would have had ports of new 2D indie games given the physical release treatment they deserve.

>>3784306
nobody wants to acknowledge the potential benefits that the Chameleon would have brought to the table, and instead they just eat up the negative press and parrot what drunken commentators on youtube say. It was a calculated move for all these big "collector" personalities to come together and attack the Retro team for whatever personal reasons they might have had, but ultimately it comes down to jealousy. Some youtubers didn't buy into the hate and continued to support the Chameleon, and they were also insulted and ostracized. The fact is, the Chameleon would have been revolutionary in the classic game world and would have made this current empire of hoarding and reselling old games for ever higher prices vanish practically overnight. These "collectors" who pride themselves on the growing value of their games (and who are just waiting for the right moment to cash out) couldn't allow the Chameleon to see the light of day because it would have made most of their collections worthless.

>>3784053
hi john carlsen

>>3785579
An ASIC isn't the same thing so obviously it's not gonna have the same costs associated to it.

>>3782994
the jailbreak FW Kevtris released for the NT Mini with his FPGA cores literally happened in the last week, don't be an ass. outside of that, nothing like what OP describes exists at this point.

Amusingly, Kevtris *IS* working on a FPGA-based system which will support multiple cores; it is called the Zimba 3000:
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/

Features & Supported cores are still up in the air, but many of the cores he's written thus far are being released for the jailbroken NT Mini.

As for why no one has done it yet? Writing FPGA cores is much more laborious than using OS emulators from the Internet, pretty simple. Also, the cost of FPGAs powerful enough to emulate 8 and 16bit hardware adds up, particularly when you're not producing in large enough quantities to reduce their cost.

>>3786029
this. an ASIC isn't the same as an FPGA at all, the cost of the FPGAs and the "cost" (realized cost or cost in time) of writing cores is non-trivial.

>>3786029
Of course an ASIC isn't the same thing as a devkit. Neither is an FPGA.

>>3782745
Kevtris: A fucking technical genius who can't make a good youtube video to save his life.

This is basically what the Coleco Chameleon was supposed to be. The difference is Kevtris can actually make it happen.

He had some hacks for that new Nintendo console too.. whatever the fuck its called, not the AVS, but the expensive one.Analogue NT?

>muh FPGA meme

FPGA's aren't more accurate than software emulators, their implementation is based on exactly the same documentation. If anything, they're less tested and therefore buggier than the best software emulation.

You might as well just build a HTPC, the end effect will be superior to what you seem to want and the cost will be lower.

>>3786552
>Of course an ASIC isn't the same thing as a devkit. Neither is an FPGA.
Being a devkit does not preclude it from being an FPGA though since they're basically that to begin with.

>>3786376
>>3786582
Kevtris is another contributor to the Retro VGS who abandoned the project after realizing the potential and impact the console would have. He decided to jump on the hatewagon when popular youtubers told him to and also took with him the progress that had been funded by the Retro team. Both Kevtris and Carlsen used the bankroll of the Retro team to fund research and prototyping then disappeared when they realized the VGS would completely dominate the classic game market. And now Kevtris is making his own FPGA console with the work that he did on Retro's dime because he knows the potential of the concept. Won't be long before John Carlsen does the same, and thanks to the misinformation campaign the Retro team won't have the funds to pursue legal action.

>>3786794
A FPGA can replicate hardware on the logic level though, which puts them on the level of a cycle accurate emulator or real hardware.

>>3787608
>Kevtris is another contributor to the Retro VGS who abandoned the project after realizing the potential and impact the console would have
You mean the impact it HAD*

The Super Nintendo came out over 2 decades ago.

File: 71967198263.jpg (99KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

99KB, 1280x720px

>>3787636
top kek

>>3787636
Sure it already had an impact back when it came out, but SNES is really popular with collectors right now. SNES is one of the many consoles the Retro VGS would have played perfectly. We saw it running perfectly at the toy fair. The RVGS would have devestated the second hand game market for cartridge consoles and the resellers knew it. Their livelihood would have evaporated almost overnight.

>>3786838
And being a Ferrari doesn't preclude it from being a car. But saying you need a Ferrari to drive to the corner store precludes you from being a smart person.

>>3784057
Looks like it's literally beefed up NES Classic Edition hardware, not a bad plug and play solution for $80 if it ever launches.

File: the-homer-inline4.jpg (35KB, 660x330px) Image search: [Google]

35KB, 660x330px

>>3787608
Is that you, Mike Kennedy?

Cause that's not at all what happened.

http://nintendolegend.com/2015/09/interview-kevin-kevtris-horton-on-the-retro-vgs/

Kev was working on the FPGA cores long before you called, and it wasn't until you tried to turn the Chameleon into a flying car that Kev decided to walk.

>>3782416
Why do something that actually requires money and effort when you can shit out a quarter-baked piece of shit famiclone and sell it for ~$150USD a pop?

>>3783056
My main problem with the AVS is how it handles the horizontal stretch. You can't get it to perfectly match up how it would display on a stock 4:3 display with the overscan properly hidden, it's always gonna be slightly thinner or fatter.

>>3788758
This is a reason I've heard for why a lot of people prefer an RGB modded NES over a Framemeister. Framemeister doesn't scale the pixels on integers, but the way in which it processes the image apparently does a really good job of keeping the image sharp without a shimmering effect, while still displaying in true 4:3. The hardware scaler chip is the reason why the thing costs $300.

>>3788105
Well let me explain to you why everything you said was retarded then
Yes you can emulate SNES on an ASIC but that ASIC can only do the one thing which if you read the OP is not what he was asking about, if you truly want a multi emulator console using hardware emulation an FPGA is the most practical solution.
You saying "hurr durr you don't need a board that pricy" is just you pulling things out of your ass, all the project out there aiming for hardware SNES emulation used a board about as powerful and considering the prices on those things they're not just gonna use one that is massively more powerful than what they need.
Then you saying "hurr durr it's a devkit not an FPGA" is just you being retarded.since a big part of the purpose of an FPGA is being a devkit to begin with

>>3788983
Also, a FPGA can get updates after release, while a ASIC can't be changed after it's manufactured.

>>3788983
>no one uses devkits that can do more than required for one specific project
>a big part of the purpose of an FPGA is being a devkit to begin with
Talk about pulling shit out of your ass.
The point of bringing up previous ASIC systems was to demonstrate the limited number of gates needed to build a system. But since you don't know what your talking about I guess that went over your head.

>>3789316
>>no one uses devkits that can do more than required for one specific project
Not when the cost is that high, you can even look at what this guy said I don't think he even implements the special chip on the board itself which would make the resources needed much higher, and I doubt an emubox without the ability to use ROMs instead of actual carts would be that interesting for many peopel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7TWjnaF_U4
http://pgate1.at-ninja.jp/SNES_on_FPGA/

>Talk about pulling shit out of your ass.
>boards that are primarily sold as devkits aren't meant to be used as devkits
Anon please

>The point of bringing up previous ASIC systems was to demonstrate the limited number of gates needed to build a system. But since you don't know what your talking about I guess that went over your head.
ASICs are irrelevant to the discussion since they're not suited to do what the OP asked, and afaik there is no example of an ASICs that imitates SNES and isn't garbage at it so yeah when you cut corner and use highly specialized hardware you're not gonna need as much resources than when you do things properly on non specialized hardware.

>>3788730
Nice try, anon. That's nothing but part of the hate campaign. Notice how the article was written as the Chameleon was picking up steam. It's another calculated effort to discredit the Retro team. Also notice how Kevtris mentions nothing about the multiple checks he received from Retro during his time on the team. The part about him attempting to cut costs is true though, he was trying to make a quick buck (which he did) and simultaneously sabotage the Retro VGS by scaling back the revolutionary FPGA architecture to the point where it would have been a cheap emulator box, leaving a true FPGA design for whatever project he releases in the future. Also notice how he plugged his own console while trashing the Chameleon in the same breath. The guy was bought by the resellers and youtubers expressly to discredit the Retro team.

>>3784057
that's pretty awesome actually. I like retro games but I'm a casual player and too much of a normie to waste time on ROMS and crap.

>>3787835
Wew lad you best be baiting.

>>3783056
>The NT Mini doesn't play ROMs
Wrong, bucko. You can play ROMs from an SD card now, thanks to Kevtris.

>>3789706
Trolling, baiting, shitposting, whatever the hell else you want to call it. I've heard it all. The fact is nobody can mention the Retro VGS/Chameleon unless all you're doing is spewing hate and misinformation because anyone who doesn't take the smear campaign as gospel is seen as either a troll or an idiot. Nobody is allowed to look at the project objectively and the undeniable contributions it would have through to retro gaming without being insulted. I'm glad you're so smug and self-satisfied in your hate, because that's exactly how the resellers and youtubers want you to think so you can keep lining their pockets.

>>3789740
There was nothing positive to say about the project to begin with. What audience would a literally who system with literally who games appeal to? Retro collectors? Fuck no. I know you're falseflagging for replies, but pretending to be retarded seems like a waste of an afternoon.

>>3789767
If you can't see the benefits of the Chameleon, you're completely blinded by the misinformation campaign.
>FPGA core design makes the console hardware-accurate without the inaccuracies found in SOAC clones and emulation boxes
>FPGA opens up the possibility for not just consoles but replication of specialized arcade hardware
>indie 2D PC titles released and preserved on bug-free cartridges running natively with zero load times or incompatibility issues
>rare and classic games rereleased in compilations by iconic companies of the 8 and 16 bit eras
>no need for system updates or game installations
>cartridges with long-term data retention that will be functional long after Steam's servers have been shut down
>console would be completely open and available to all without the huge barriers to entry we see now
The Retro VGS was going to be a gift to the retro gaming community, doing away with the overblown and inflated reseller market. What better way to keep that market alive then taking to youtube and getting all the e-celebs to trash talk it, ensuring it would never get the funding it needs to become a reality? The retro gaming community will parrot everything these youtubers say, and the Retro team was targeted to be their own personal punching bag. Someone wants to come along and innovate and actually make the retro game scene better and more accessible, but those who stand to profit from the current retro fad didn't want to lose their meal ticket. And guess what? Prices have only gone up since.

>>3789341
Not sure what to say at this point. You're wrong on all counts. But hey, you watched a youtube video so you're an expert. kek.

>>3790231
>You're wrong on all counts
>http://pgate1.at-ninja.jp/SNES_on_FPGA/
>" SNES on FPGA can not fit into one DE1. For this reason, two ones of DE 1 are used, one is to realize on FPGA with a configuration such as CPU + PPU etc, and the other is SPC 700 + DSP sound. It will fit if it is DE2 "
>I don't back any of my claims nor do I acknowledge the proof right under my eyes but trust me I'm an expert
Okay anon.

>>3790264
You prove yourself wrong with your quote dingus.
18,000+18,000 does not equal 115,000. 115k is overkill. If you don't believe me take the word of the guy your quoting. kek. Damn, you're retarded.

>>3790303
Ye>>3790303
>18,000+18,000 does not equal 115,000. 115k is overkill.
It only implements the CPU, PPU, SPC and DSP, special chips exists and with things like the SuperFX the DE2 is far from overkill.
But hey you can multiply a number by 2 while ignoring any of the real world nuance so I guess you're an expert.

>>3790316
>the superfx is part of an snes
Literally retarded

BTW, the sd2nes has 8,064LEs. If you want to try to do the math to see what adding a cart to the device would involve. You don't have to be an expert to work it out. Just a little smarter than it takes to click on a youtube video.

>>3782416
Short answer, FPGA's are expensive being a younger technology. The MIST FPGA computer has existed for years and has pretty much everything youre asking for. Don't like the 200 euro pricetag? Better keep waiting for the technology to get cheaper.

I like the way OP says "why doesn't some just build an FPGA emulator box" as if properly functioning FPGA cores are something you can just whip up real quick. Sorry OP, takes a bit more effort than that.

File: 1417950012985.jpg (9KB, 299x293px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 299x293px

>>3790089
>bug-free cartridges