Why /vr/ hate the Metroidvania? Only because "hurr not

/vr/ DOES hate Sonic Adventure

>>3759601
This. Also Sonic was a shit series to begin with so bad games getting a little worse is different than great games getting much worse.

It's just a loud and autistic minority.

>>3759603
Yes, sonic was never good.


Metroidvanias, however, are generally really good. People that complain about metroidvania killing the classic castlevania formula are greedy fucks considering there's over 10 classic titles, probably closer to 15.

>>3759598

I love metroidvania and I honestly consider it to be my favorite type of game

>>3759637
>probably closer to 15.

lol

>>3759598
Several reasons
#1: Because of all the indie scum who made "Metroidvania" a common noun
#2: Contrarianism to series' fandom and youtubers
#3: "Metroidvanias" are blamed for turning the series to bishonen character designs
#4: They are also blamed for putting a cross on the old gameplay style of the series and forcing it into a different direction
# last: Some people actually didn't like the game very much, believe it or not

>>3759648
>#1: Because of all the indie scum who made "Metroidvania" a common noun

Scott Sharkey isn't an indie guy. They just picked up the term that was popular.

>>3759598
>Why /vr/ hate the Metroidvania?
The RPG elements are useless and only lead to grinding. Metroid doesn't need it and neither does Castlevania.

>>3759598
Because:

1. SNES-babies who think their 1st Castlevania (Super IV) is the best one
2. Australia-kun, who gets mad at the people above

They can be very vocal.

In truth, only Rondo measure up to the best Metroidvanias (like SotN and AoS).

>>3759669
>the best Metroidvanias (like SotN and AoS)

But AoS is one of the shittier ones.

>>3759648
>#1: Because of all the indie scum who made "Metroidvania" a common noun
>#2: Contrarianism to series' fandom and youtubers

*channers acting like hipster faggots? What a surprise!

>>3759669
>like SotN and AoS
>AoS
FUCK NO
Circle of the moon and Harmony of dissonance are waaaay better

Aria of Sorrow is the worst metroidvania for being an endlessly grindy mess.

>>3759598
But I don't hate metroidvanias.

I dont hate them I just think theyre worse than classicvania games and hardly try to improve. They have practically none of the things that made the originals great instead going for a more cheap muh loot approach. Instead of focusing on refining the existing combat mechanics, balancing the types of gear/abilities and working on better level design they just add more useless content and hope that will take peoples minds off the lazy design. I guess it works to an extent but still.

>>3759598
I hate them because they're boring and lazily made, reusing sprites from one game to the next until you're sick of the same exact SotN enemies appearing 10 years later. There is also much less challenge since stats affect more things than you can keep track of. At least in classic CV it's just you and your skill to get through the game, no modifiers, no bullshit.

>>3759708
>>3759706
>>3759680
The only shitty thing in this thread is your taste. Souls system was one of the best things to come out of video games in years. The confident move towards RPG made it a landmark game in the fusion genre which has been largely untapped since Monster World. And last but not least, the perfect mix of sorrowful music and muted visual style created an incredibly cohesive, memorable atmosphere, which felt beyond the limits of a portable console.

AoS stands as a testament that truly good ideas transcend technical limitations. Even the tiny resolution and shit colors of GBA couldn't prevent AoS from becoming a touchstone platformer/RPG, and setting the blueprint for new 2D games to come.

>>3759765
you talk like a fag but i agree with you

>>3759598
>Portrait of Ruin
Not /vr/ but goddamn, what a fun game.

I remember when you put the game into sleep mode, the DS would play a sound effect of a coffin lid when you opened or closed the system.

>>3759765
lol

Have fun with your grindfest I guess. That game was so boring I can't believe I actually finished it. And I'm normally pretty tolerant of metroidvania style grinding.

>>3759765
>The confident move towards RPG made it a landmark game in the fusion genre which has been largely untapped since Monster World
How the hell is it any more of an RPG than SoTN?

>>3759775
Either you did something very wrong, or it's simply not for you. That said, I myself am usually fine with grind, I actually enjoyed Dragon Quest 1 so you could say my taste is polar opposite of yours.

>>3759770
I simply thought it was fucking impossible to hate that game. I know /vr/ has contrarian hivemind and all that, but for fuck's sake—this game is easily one of the best things to happen past 2000 in gaming, and yet they shit on it.

>>3759801
Mainly the soul system (multiple copies of the same soul give better effects, passive souls which act as abilities). Otherwise it's close to SotN. And yet—maybe I'm wrong, but to me it felt more confident being an RPG somehow. I felt it had more varied weapons, more focus on grinding, etc.

>>3759648
>#4: They are also blamed for putting a cross on the old gameplay style of the series and forcing it into a different direction
Vampire Killer on MSX and Simon's Quest were metroidvanias, though, which means that until Super Castlevania IV, classicvanias and metrodivanias in the series were split 50/50.

Oh right, and people who say this shit have SCIV as "Mario". Which means the only period when 'classicvanias' were the biggest part of the series was after 1993, because of Rondo of Blood - until 1997 with Symphony.
In that period we had: Castlevania X68000 which noone played because noone fucking had X68000; Bloodlines, which fucking sucked; and Dracula X which was just Rondo dumbed down because SNES couldn't handle it.
(Also I'm not counting these 2 shitty gameboy games because they are insult to Castlevania name).

Oh, no, what a horrible legacy that was destroyed. Also, post-SotN, in the "metroidvania era" we've gotten:
- Legends, which was literally the only good GameBoy CV, and a classicvania;
- Chronicles, a good port of X6800;
- Adventure ReBirth, which was actually a good remake of shitty GB Adventure;
- Dracula X Chronicles which was a decent remake of Rondo;
So, total of 4 classicvania releases; metroidvanias had 7 (including Circle of the Moon which I guess was an attempt at merging both styles?), and TEN games - more than both of these - that were neither, mostly 3D action adventure games like Lords of Shadow, but also puzzle games and fucking Judgement.

The reason classicvanias stopped being made was because they were hard to make, niche product in a modern market, and had huge shit-to-good ratio - Bloodlines and first 2 GB titles - while the thing is, after SotN, they didn't really make a single metroidvania that was truly BAD as such, and they sold ok. So it seemed like safer investment for Konami.

>>3759775
Okay, I keep hearing people talking about metroidvanias and keep mentioning grinding.

Is something wrong with me? Do I play them wrong? Like, grinding is fully optional in these games, if you use the right equipment, look for secrets (i.e. don't suck at exploration) you basically can ignore grinding.

What the fuck?

>>3759989
>i.e. don't suck
But they do suck, anon. They do suck.

>>3759994
I mean, if so, then grinding is good, though. It's like a handicap mode, or a "tourist" difficulty setting, it lets the children enjoy the game, too!

It's like those destructible checkpoints in Shovel Knight or that thing in RE4 where game gets easier when you die too much.

>>3759989
Item completion. Some drop rates are fucking abysmal.

>>3759989
Whatever. I suppose I could have just rushed through and ignored most of the souls. Looking back that probably would have made it a more interesting game. But at the time I wanted to see the content they'd made and discover what the different souls did. That made the whole thing into just a slog though. It never really felt challenging or even very interesting, just tedious. All the metroidvanias are like that to a degree but AoS seemed like the worst for it. If you liked it, great but I thought it was an odd choice.

>>3759972
>Vampire Killer
>metroidvania
No it fucking wasn't. Stop spreading disinfo.

By the way OP, it's because IGAvania is boring compared to the Classicvania formula.

>>3759972
>Legends, which was literally the only good GameBoy CV, and a classicvania

I thought legends was not canon

>>3759972
The real reason no one makes Classicvania (or Mega Man) type games anymore is because on the whole, action platformers are boring as shit.

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>thanks to Niggerashi and Faggotvania, we will NEVER EVER get to play The Bloodletting or Resurrection

>>3759972
>Vampire Killer on MSX and Simon's Quest were metroidvanias
>>3760079
>No it fucking wasn't.
This. MSX Dracula had no free-roaming. It was still stage-based like its FC counterpart.

>>3759972
>Oh right, and people who say this shit have SCIV as "Mario"
What did he mean by this?

>>3760109
who

cares

I HATE THE METROID CASTLEVANIA GAMES BECAUSE they don't make them anymore so I try to make myself hate them so I don't miss them and fill the void in my heart ;_;

I never liked metroidvanias, i just want platforming not looking around and puzzle solving. metroid fusion was the best metroid for this reason too

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Why /vr/ hate Rondo of Blood: Hard Mode?

>>3759598
I don't hate metroidvanias.
I like the Sotn style games and the classic style Castlevanias

>>3760218
They just don't exist, its not like they are hiding them somewhere. Also what if they sucked?

>>3760024
Ohhh, dude, now you make sense… Sorry, but that's like catching 151 pokemon on your first run. And it's about as pointless too, a lot of the souls are rattata-tier.

I think it's much better to start collecting after you complete the game—or at least near the ending. Killing monsters will be easier, and your luck stat will be way higher, meaning souls and items will drop more often. More importantly, you will also be able to afford Soul Eater ring (300,000 G), which drastically increases the soul drop rate.

So I can only imagine the grind you went through… Without all these tricks I mention, I'd give up after several hours of playing.

We like Metroid and Castlevania.

What we hate is the indie crap.

>>3759601
>>3759603

No we don't.

>>3759972
Looks like there are 2 kinds of people in this thread:
1) people who see a Castlevania thread, take off their pants and shit all over Metroidvania
2) people who see a Castlevania thread, take off their pants and shit all over Classicvania

i like em just fine

I just hate that word

I hate it with a fucking passion

and I hate the fact that so many people just accept it like its a normal thing

>>3760972
>If it's not twiple a its inderp

>>3761074
>but muh strawman argument

>>3761013
Yes we do.

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>>3759665
Metroid has no RPG elements.

>>3759680
>>3759706
wat? AoS is a properly crafted SotN. It's well balanced, has a lot of variety, didn't superscribe to the dark world/inverted castle/double castle tired old game mechanic, the graphics and sound were terrific, and it's got some great extras. I love em both, but SotN has got some serious rough edges in terms of balancing and level design. It's arguably the best of the post-SotN games. That being said, CotM is my favorite. HoD just sucked.

>>3759775
>grindfest
When did you ever have to grind in any of these games? Even while playing CotM on Thief mode whilst skipping the Purifying artifact and sequence breaking the Underground Waterway, I've never had to grind.
>>3760015
What the fuck is wrong with you?

>>3761057
>I just hate that word
We just need a new word for 2D sidescrolling action-adventure games in which the whole is presented as one large connected area. That's essentially what these games are, gameplay-wise.

>>3761092
>When did you ever have to grind in any of these games?
He explained, see >>3760024… He went for collecting all souls immediately. Poor fella

>We just need a new word for 2D sidescrolling action-adventure games in which the whole is presented as one large connected area
open world
seamless world
single map

>>3761092
>Metroid has no RPG elements.
That's the point. Metroidvania are a worthless derivative of Metroid.

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>>3761309
People like Action RPGs.
To the point now that the market is flooded with shitty ones.

But character progression back in the day was great. Metroid and Zelda did it to a degree with items, but people like looking at stats, at a level up ding, at swappable equipment.

>>3761309
Congratulations! You have RPG intolerance. This means you will never, ever get to enjoy an RPG in your life, and will spend your days grumbling about people enjoying them. How does it feel to be such a loser?

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>>3761092
>we just need a new word

2D Sidescroller action platforming open world sandbox rpg

Really rolls off the tongue, not like that pesky "metroidvania" does, what with it being all short and sweet

>>3761532
I was preferred the term explorable platformers.

>>3761532
>>3761546
What is wrong with "action adventure"?

>>3761587
Too broad.

>>3760079
>it's because IGAvania is boring compared to the Classicvania formula.
Curious why you think that? Igavania allows for exploration and (limited) puzzle solving, on top of fighting monsters and platforming like "Classicvanias" have. I think this is less an issue of more/less "objective" fun and more an issue of you projecting what you like as "objectively" better.

Linear action platformers are superior and better designed often, metroidvanias are dull and too easy often

>>3761546
I can dig that

>>3759972
>Vampire Killer on MSX [was a] metroidvania

(You)

>>3761331
Hey, I was a kid once too and I loved Pokemon. I actually enjoyed pure grinding. Hours upon hours of gridning. And I still like the numbers game in turn-based fights. But grinding is always dumb and especially in real time action games.

I mean, in which way did the RPG elements of Symphony of the Night improve on Super Metroid?

>>3761321
>But character progression back in the day was great.
wrong

>>3761632
I never feel challenged when I'm playing an IGAvania. Classicvania is no-nonsense platforming with cleverly placed monsters and setpieces. Most of the time in MV's you spend just wandering around looking for the next puzzle to solve or slaying ridiculously easy monsters. Adding adventure and RPG elements to Castlevania was a mistake; making it become the series standard was an even more egregious one.

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>>3761092
>We just need a new word for 2D sidescrolling action-adventure games in which the whole is presented as one large connected area. That's essentially what these games are, gameplay-wise.

I got you, kyodai.

Explore 'em ups

>>3761972
POR has a hard mode with level limits (50,25,1). Great game.

I know what you mean though. Classicvania is a gauntlet, precisely calibrated to hit you like a martial artist trapping an opponent

Adventure rebirth does it right

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>>3760331
>that game is shit on the SNES because is babby easy casualized shit
>this game is shit on the SNES because it's too hard, difficulty =/= good game :(((((

>>3759665
This. The rpg systems ruin the difficulty of the game i feel they just got shoe horned in as rpgs where super popular at the time sotn development.

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>>3759598
> Why /vr/ hate the Metroidvania
... do we? I don't. I haven't heard Metroidvania hate, just some grumbling when a game isn't metroid/castlevania _enough_.

Why partially revisiting an area in Castlevania is an abomination, but revisiting the same area 7x in Mario is ok?

>>3762458
A lot of people hate Mario 64 here, too.

2D Mario is better than 3D Mario, btw.

>>3761939
>I mean, in which way did the RPG elements of Symphony of the Night improve on Super Metroid?
I didn't say they directly improved the Metroid formula. The whole "Metroidvania" term is a bit tongue in cheek, because in all honesty, SotN and Metroid really copy each other in overall structure:

1) the combat is melee instead of shooting—with a variety of weapons with different attacks styles (short range, long range, slashing in arcs, etc)
2) most enemies don't feel like amoebas moving in fixed patterns and dying from 1 shot (well, except for medusas)
3) hundreds of different special attacks instead of fixed rockets/bombs, with a single SP meter
4) less focus on Zelda-style puzzles, they don't serve as roadblocks (instead it's usually kill a boss—get a needed ability)

So the whole term is pretty shitty in giving Metroid waaay too much credit for things irrelevant to it.

Then what is SotN? It is a huge side-scrolling action/RPG with an open world. Except it doesn't half-ass action and it doesn't half-ass RPG. It provides a painstakingly detailed, cohesive world with a story, a whole bestiary of different enemies, tons of different items and so on; a simple, but "real" RPG system with 6 stats, equipment, potions and such; and real platforming, with useful new abilities and a vast array of moves (unlike Monster World). AoS adds to it a huge Pokemon-style souls collecting system.

Now name me 1, just one game that did side scrolling RPG better than SotN before it.

>>3762672
>Now name me 1, just one game that did side scrolling RPG better than SotN before it.
Monster World 4.

>>3762684
Hahahaha, no. Primitive platforming, primitive RPG, flat level design, not interconnected world, no abilities to speak of, but tons of people to talk to. It's good but it's nowhere near SotN. You didn't even try.

>>3762684
anyone else get a mad stiffy when she shakes her bum when you open chests?

>>3762704
Waifufags need to be shot
>Ajajajaj this gaem has muh waifu your argument is invalid

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>>3762036
Honestly, that's not terrible.

Side Explorer?
Spelunker?
Spellunker? (to capture the rpg elements)

Uhh...

>>3762756
Whip 'em up sounds good too

>>3762716
Chill out sperglord.

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>>3762771
>Plays mediocre game for muh waifu
>Calls others sperg
Go masturbate to your burka-clad cartoon maiden somewhere else

>>3759760
>No modifiers
Yes because throw axes and change to holy water is not a modifiers
Upgrade the vampire Killer making It with chains isnt a modifier

Have you played Castlevania?

I don't hate it. but, it's only been relevant for the past decade and every developer seems to not really improve on the genre. metroid on snes is already meh as it is, now every new metroidvania feels like a watered down version that doesn't try anything new.

>>3762781
Does it also piss you off that I prefer playing Saturn SotN over PSX because of Maria mode?

>>3762831
>indie dev makes a game
>well, not actually a game, just a sprite pack with a unity code attached to it
>genre: #metroidvania #open world
>ayyy guaranteed sales
That's why it's a thing

>>3762847
I actually don't care, if you like it better then good for you. As long as you don't shill it on /vr/ because of your waifu.