It's 6th May 1995. Your mission is make Sega Saturn the

Do I have a lot of money?

Localize weeaboo games in America and Europe.

Hire better marketers to push Sony's shit in.

Tell Naka to piss off and take his engine and use it for a new Sonic game.

Port more older arcade games to Saturn, like Golden Axe RoDA and OutRunners.

Suck Square and Capcom's cock

>>3752392
Don't bother with any stupid surprise launches and make Virtua Fighter Remix the pack-in game with the option to pick between the remixed and original graphics.

>>3752412
Also, localize X-Men vs. Street Fighter. Hell, I would even make a Holiday bundle.

make Panzer Dragoon the bundled game for starters
proper localizations and translations of jap games for the western markets

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>>3752392
They want western style games?

Let them have western style games!

Simply make sure there are good multiplats with PC. One thing necessary for this is specialized FPS engine development, to be used repeatedly, so coordination would be due between companies who would need to do engine sharing on the Saturn.

>>3752392
>You cannot go back to make the lauch a success.
That's unfair. It should be a basic starting point for the launch to be less of a disaster / be pushed back to a saner time. Or at least cut the 32x...
>You cannot go back to make Saturn a proper 3d games console.
So... you CAN alter the saturn, as long as you're not bolstering it with 3d capabilities? Then trim one of the SH-2s and the sound capabilities a bit, and maybe slip in a 3x CD drive.

$299

A competent ad campaign boasting the system's graphical prowess
Champion a Sonic platformer with amazing cinematics and use the cinematics to sell the game.
Cosy up to Hollywood to promote the system - hello, Michael Jackson? Where were you?
And because we have the hindsight of history - fuck it...

Customisable system cases like the bright iMacs of the late '90s. Make it a beautiful consumer item you must have.

Flood the system early with PC ports. id hates Nintendo so get DOOM 1+2. Get Dark Forces. Get Descent.

>>3752392
where is that

>>3752392
Impeach Clinton by calling all the pimps inda the yard and piling him with with THICK hookers, causing more sex scandals.

Al Gore becums new prez of murika. Everyone hates him. His terms end prematurely by resignation after an assassination attempt by a LARPer and weeb in love with Asuka.

A Christfag and moral fag gets snap-elected as new el presidento. He bans the /v/.

SEGA moves their HQ to japan and focuses on creating good games instead of catering to PTA and moral fag parents in USA lie they did in the past.


....*creative magic happens*...

SEGA wins because they lost the least when USA suddenly bans /v/ , as both Sony and Nintendo overinvested in USA USA because muh #1 consumer market.

THE END?

>>3752392
>You cannot go back to make the launch a success.

Impossible.

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Telling SoJ and SoA to be nice with each other and finish Sonic X-treme.

>>3752392

Make a proper 3D Sanic, and localize the shit out of all the best Japanese games.

Localize EVERYTHING. The more games that are available for the system, the greater the chance of a breakout hit.

Fire Bernie Stolar.

>>3752392
Pay Square any amount of money they want to make FF7 a Saturn exclusive.

Done. Sega wins.

>>3753064
This, but also release a 2.5D Sonic game sorta like Sonic 4 except not hot garbage. Do a Streets of Rage/Golden Axe crossover as well just for the hell of it.

>>3752405
>>3752421
This guy gets it.

Make a Sega GT like game for it.
Suck Square's dick, get FFVII as exclusive.
Spend all cash on marketing.

I wish there was a game where we could play as developers in different times or play as custom developers, like a Game Dev Story buy much deeper and with options to play as IRL companies, saving Sega with the Saturn would be a cool scenario

make minecraft before notch and make it saturn exclusive

>>3753090
And how the fuck would you do that?

>>3752681
>Champion a Sonic platformer with amazing cinematics and use the cinematics to sell the game.

probably would have been as simple as that

they really needed a sonic game at launch. 2d gameplay, but throw every graphical gimmick the saturn is capable of as quickly as possible.

>A Sega console without Sonic game
here's your problem .

bring back alex kidd and fantasy zone

>>3753189
>>3753090
>Minecraft
Maymay games didn't save Xboxes in japan, anon.

>>3753813
>Japan
I bet you think the South America is a relevant market too

>>3752392
Localize all games that were highly acclaimed in Japan.
Air Segata Sanshiro commercials in the West with subtitles.

>>3752392
>it's 23rd January 1997
>
>Your mission is to make OP the winner of it's age
>
>Congratulations OP. You just won the 6th grade participation participation trophy
>
>Mission accomplished

Translate fucking Sakura Wars.

I don't even care if it saves the Sega Saturn I just want it.

>>3753824
>Weeb the shit out of the Sega campaign
I'm sure that's the real winner, Americans are just hidden Japanese fanatics.

>>3752405
This won't work. "Weeaboo games" are niche now and were even more niche back then. Big sellers for the PSX were games like Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid, Crash Bandicoot, Tomb Raider, and the Final Fantasies (which were just getting popular in the US).

"Better marketers" is an easy thing to say but is totally meaningless. How do you think the Saturn's marketing could have improved. What flaws did you see in their campaigns?

They were trying to make a new Sonic, it just didn't work out. People didn't give that much of a shit about arcade titles at this point.

I'd make the Saturn a bigger advertisement whore than the Genesis.
Also I'd make sure lots of localizations were made, give the consumers a large variety to choose from, instead of basically fuck all. Word gets around quick about games, if it turns out your system is seriously slacking for games, people aren't going to want to invest time or money into it.

Become all buddy-buddy with Square, Konami and Capcom.

Spread rumours that the playstation causes kids to become homosexuals. Playstation is the girly homo console. Get a Saturn, chicks dig a man who has a Saturn.
Eh I guess that would fit into the Advertising part.

Launch with a proper 2D or 2.5D Sonic game. Don't even bother trying to bring him to 3D until you know what the fuck you're doing.

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>I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

>>3752392
I'd buy Rare and have them make games for Saturn.

>>3754220
Fuck, came to post this.
Eliminate Sony.

>>3752392
I'm guessing you have no life.

>>3753064

FF7 had good ads though that boasted about its cinematic quality.

This is what the Saturn and even Nintendo needed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9pF9BJQBLo

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>>3752392 (OP)
Its November 22, 1994. I will meet my yakuza buddies in the evening. They are awesome guys. One of them dudes has a battery up his ass that makes his eyes glow. Going to barrow a few billion yen and thats money that i am going to pump into MARKETING, since its not games, or graphics, or gameplay, or design and any of these that sell consoles. Ask the Sony fuckers about it. They know how to make cheap shit shine like gold.

>>3754047
1997 would make op 19 now though.
Nice math kid

>>3752472
>One thing necessary for this is specialized FPS engine development, to be used repeatedly, so coordination would be due between companies who would need to do engine sharing on the Saturn.
This, get the guys who did the Saturn port of Quake and Exhumed as a 2nd party dev, buy their engine and make way more games on it.

>>3754070
>"Better marketers" is an easy thing to say but is totally meaningless. How do you think the Saturn's marketing could have improved.
Save costs by simply reusing the Japanese marketing just translated into local languages

>>3754047
>participation participation trophy

>>3754072
>Spread rumours that the playstation causes kids to become homosexuals. Playstation is the girly homo console. Get a Saturn, chicks dig a man who has a Saturn.
Kek, it worked for Genesis, a focus group found that teenage boys didn't wanna be associated with having a SNES.

>people saying to localize everything

Fucking idiots Bernie was right about no one wanting 2D games anymore it sucks that so many great things aren't playable if you don't know Japanese but it would've killed the console even sooner.

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>>3752482

What would removing one of the SH-2s accomplish? Wasn't another processor added by Sega once the specs of the PSX started leaking out in 1993?

>>3755087
One of the VDPs, but that's actually a specialized processor optimized for a purpose.

What would it accomplish? Cutting costs! And that's costs that don't do much good, since it's a second processor on a bus that doesn't let communication between the two CPUs be at all easy, all in all causing nasty programming challenges. And maybe it would also allow the first SH-2 to be binned at a few more MHz's, maybe. Or those costs could perhaps be diverted into a 3x CD drive.

And maybe if the system was cheaper, people would be more open to the ram cart add on.

>>3754974
>having more games kills a console

>>3755120
The Saturn's design is fundamentally flawed. Removing a CPU and VDP would just make it plain inferior to PS1, and might still be more expensive to manufacture.

The only way Saturn could win that generation besides a total hardware redesign is to go nuts with company credit and outspend Sony on marketing and developer payola. This of course would result in a pyrithic victory which would utterly bankrupt the company (no Dreamcast or even third party Sega) even if they 'won' that generation.

You just can't win selling a technically inferior product at higher manufacturing costs unless your games advantage is enormous. And I'm not just talking about games /vr/ likes but what the mainstream likes.

>>3755138
Who said anything about removing a VDP? Just remove the second CPU, since that appears to be the hardest thing to program for. If somehow it was possible for it to have a 2.4X CD drive, one 31.6 or 33.6 mhz SH-2 and at least 80% of the sound channels and still be cheaper, it should have been at less of a disadvantage.

Particularly if it would have been able to scale down better later on ... higher speed CPUs and CD drives would have come down in price more.

I don't suppose it would have been possible to eventually consolidate the two VDPs into one chip? That is, if the console had been on the whole worth redesigning-streamlining?

>>3755175

Hmmm, a slight tangent to what OP asked, but part of me wonders if Sega should have just pushed back the Saturn release for one more year to allow time for some modifications to the system.

Hitachi released the SH-3 chip in 1995 and it also had the added benefit of a built in DSP-core, which aside from increased polygon crunching could have helped with mpeg audio/video decompression on the fly. It's max clock was apparently 80 MHz, though in 1995 it probably would have been lower, maybe in the 40 - 50 MHz range.

>>3752392
I dont know but it wouldve been cool if sega put out some of their system 32 super scaler based games, even in a pack. It couldve been like the hang on+columns cart in the megadrive but amped up to 11

>>3753074
I remember I made a hit out of the "saturn" of that game (i played game dev diary i think, the mobile one)

>>3755210
But the saturn already had a -non built into the cpu- dsp chip right?

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>>3755210

Just adding to my post here, but look here:

http://www.smd.ru/upload/medialibrary/532/sh7708.pdf

One of these two SH-3 chips might have been included in a 1995 JAP-released Saturn. The SH7702 runs at 45 MHz and the SH7708 runs at 60. Both were released in 1995.

>>3755224

That's beyond me. According to this image it doesn't look like it, but I am illiterate when it comes to tech specs.

>>3755224

In any case, an extra year to work on their console centered around one SH-3 might also have given them more time to integrate VDP1 and VDP2 into one chip as >>3755178 suggested. Possibly lower cost and certainly more powerful than the PSX. Don't know if Sega would be able to get a worldwide release in 95, though, or if NA and Europe would have to wait until 96.

>>3755229
Well I am not a hardware expert either but in previous threads I was told that the DSP in the Saturn (which is in the sega control unit in your pic) is not so straightforward to use and that it is kind of limited when doing 3d.
The PSX had the GTE (geometry transform engine) which apparently was a dsp with less functions, but what it did (convert points from 3d to 2d coordinates) was extremely useful for 3d. Also it was tightly coupled with the cpu and it was fast. Actually the PSX GPU may have needed all the data go through the GTE, but I'm not sure about this. Once I looked into the Net Yaroze documentation and it apparently runs a very small real time OS which you control via libraries, and I think the regular PSX loads the same OS on boot.

>>3753821
>South America is a relevant
If they pirate it , itmust be POPular!

>>3755229
>>3755236
Take into account that these consoles were designed to be cheap embedded systems.
The mips 3000a in the psx is from 1989 and the mips 4000 in the n64 is from 1991.
The 68k is from 1979, 10 years older than the genesis. Also, when these chips were introduced they were way more expensive than what the whole consoles were at launch and price went down slowly.
The thing is that the speed hardware update cadences started to become faster by the mid 90s, but before that it was more normal to have long "generations", ie, same cpus were used for longer and usually the sauce in these kinds of systems was all the custom chips (like the graphic processing units) and the way the system was structured.
Anyway, the SHs were made with SEGA in mind, so maybe they could have launched a console in 96 with a chip finished in 95 but I find the time gap to be very short.

>>3754580
Nice whatever that's supposed to mean kid. kek

>>3754282
>even from the begging SONY was advertising their shit on providing a "cinematic experience"

POETRY

>>3755236
The Saturn was not lacking in T&L performance which is what would benefit from the inclusion of SH-3. It was lacking in fill rate and to a lesser extent, memory performance.

VDP1 is hot garbage for 3D. Many functions, even basic shit like gouraud shading and translucency, take many MANY cycles to complete. Meanwhile, the PS1 GPU can do the same operations in 1 cycle. The utility of VDP2 in 3D games is very limited, bordering on useless, despite being excellent for 2D.

Saturn cannot be a good console for 3D while VDP1 exists inside of it.

On the other hand, Sega would have made a bloody good console if in 1995 they were able to release a Saturn with SH-3 and a prototype SGI RCP. Hell, that console wouldn't even need a sound chip because SH-3's DSP could be fully dedicated towards that purpose, leaving RCP's DSP to be fully dedicated towards T&L (or vica versa).

Either that, or Sega could get SGI to develop a twin-pixel-pipeline RCP, removing the DSP entirely, use the SH-3's DSP for T&L, and get a proper sound chip. Such a console would have performance rivaling a Model 2. It would be more considerably more expensive than the N64 to manufacture though (e.g. RCP became more cost efficient for Nintendo when shrunk down to 350nm before release in 1996), but the performance and image quality would be absolutely unbeatable for 1995. Near-arcade level quality at home.

>>3755292

In this alternate reality, could SGI produce an RCP ready for a late 1995 release? Didn't Nintendo delay the 64 launch from 95 to 96 because of issues with the RCP?

>It's 6th May 1995.
Can't. Too busy playing the SNES I just received this morning for my birthday.

>>3755292
I agree with you on the vdp1. Regarding your dream saturn, it sounds ace but you have to suppose a 1996 release and quite possibly a high price tag (and maybe a dsp-less sh3).
VDP1 and all it would have been cool to have collections of super scaler games.
Another cool thing would've been software that let you use the saturn as a music sequencer but I doubt that would have saved the saturn.

>>3755324
That's adorable anon. Story time?

cut the price, start up localization programs for pretty much every game, cut the shitty ad campaign and start advertising game, after game, after game, contract lobotomy to do a multiplayer shooter to get a popular local MP game.

>>3752392

It's impossible

I can stay afloat by embracing the 2D power of the Saturn and carving out a niche for the Saturn in western markets by pushing the 3D capabilities as much as I can and importing Jap games.

>>3755314
>Didn't Nintendo delay the 64 launch from 95 to 96 because of issues with the RCP?
The N64 launch was actually delayed because the games weren't ready. It's well known the hardware was good to go for late 1995.

However there were some yield problems with the 350nm process at that early stage, particularly at RCP's temperature. These issues helped Nintendo justify a delay in launch. By mid-1996 the yield issues had been sorted as 350nm was getting more mature, and also assisted by a downclocking of RCP from 66.5mhz to 62.5mhz (as the CPU was linked to it via system clock it also got downlocked from 100mhz to 94mhz) and the addition of heatsinks.

If Sega bore the brunt of extra cost in lower RCP yields, there's no reason they couldn't have it in their own console for 1995. I have no doubt that the SH-3 / RCP dream console would have been premium priced, but it would have been bloody good value nevertheless for the time. A twin-pipeline RCP would have a higher fill and texel rate than Voodoo 2.

>>3752392
>Better Netlink support
>Early version of Web Browser
>New Sonic game
>Push for more 3rd party support for games that Sony flopped with or Nintendo refused to launch
>>3753030 to an extent. CDs are cheap media so there's that
>Make the Dreamcast backwards compatible
>Launch lighter versions of games along side the DC release

>>3752392

>you cannot change the fuckups that killed it

In that case there is no way to make it #1, at best it can end up better than the N64 did

What I would do is:

>1: keep the GameGear since SEGA lost all the revenue from the portable market while nintendo was kept alive thanks to the Gameboy. I would get the engineers to update the hardware GBpocket-style so its no longer a brick with half an hour battery life

>2: Get gamefreak which already had worked with SOJ doing Pulseman to release pokemon on the GG instead of going with nintendo and the GB. This alone would bring a ton of money to SEGA to compensate for the fuckups of the Saturn.

>3: try to make the Saturn as cheaply as fucking possible and bring it down to $150 or less ASAP. I would compensate early adopters that paid $400 by giving them free games.

>4: bring every and I mean every 2D non-adult jap game to the west. The Saturn sucked on 3D so the best it could do was take advantage of the fact that 3D on the PSX wasn't that good either and counter with better 2D and 2.5D games

>5: completely revamp the Saturn dev tools which sucked ass. Hire the best engineers I can afford to do it and share those tools with 3rd parties

>6: keep the Genesis around just like nintendo kept the Snes. 16bit was still a money maker well into the 32bit era, it was stupid to kill the genesis to "focus" on the Saturn

Sega has a fuck ton of characters and properties under its belt. The most obvious right hook here is to make a mega crossover game that makes Smash Bros look like child's play. The Sonic & All Stars before Sonic & All Stars, doesn't have to be racing, but make sure it appeals to the average consumer.

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>>3754070
>"Weeaboo games" are niche now and were even more niche back then.

Almost all the retro games people talk about on this board or care about in general were Japanese though. Even more when talking about consoles.

Top quality Japanese games were what just about everyone into console gaming then was interested in.

The way to win would have been to ignore the 3D push Sony was giving and focus on 2D games which were it's strong suit. If they actually marketed some of the amazing ones like Legend of Oasis the system could have got a lot more traction.

>>3755826

That was fighters megamix

>>3752392
Redesign Saturn to be a 60fps powerhouse. Everything must run at 60fps or else you can fuck off to a console with low standards. If your 3D game does not run at 60fps then do everything you can to make that possible. Then when players adopt quality over quantity we hit them with a Dreamcast that foes 60fps constantly. SEGA never drops out and forces Sony along with Nintendo to make high quality 85fps+ games in an attempt to outdo SEGA quality. Xbox can't even compete and RareWare goes multiplat.

It is 2017 again and everyone is trying to outdo each other with high quality games. Games naturally maintain a high skill ceiling due to the mega standards created back in 1995.

>>3752681

A nice 2.5 sonic game with super fluid animations running at 60fps using the saturn's hires (640x480) mode would have been a killer apt

>hello, Michael Jackson?

They did that for sonic3 and had to dial it back when he got outed as a pedo. He actually did the music for the game but couldn't even be in the credits because of the scandal

>>3752992

Also this tho after seeing the more advanced demos of xtreme I get the feeling it would have sucked

>>3753035

Don't even hire him in the first place

>>3753064

IIRC sony had to pay square a shitton of money to break their buttbuddy relationship with nintendo. They were already making FF demos for the N64

The tricky japs at sony bribed or bought out lots of studios at the time

>>3754282

Check how they never show the actual fucking gameplay

Because it looked like shit...

>>3754072

>Spread rumours that the playstation causes kids to become homosexuals

>implying it didn't

Where do you think all the fags today come from?

>>3755120

Did any games actually used both SH2s? because IIRC most devs only used one because coding for both was a fucking pain because of the shared memory

Also there was a 68k on the saturn, why didn't sega add a Genesis slot and make it backwards compatible?

That was fuckup #1

>>3755210

You know whats funny? SGI went to SEGA first meaning that the saturn could've had the tech the N64 did

But the japs at SOJ were as always racist af and only wanted other jap companies on the deal

And those jap companies fucked sega again and again

Lets be honest though, SEGA knew how fucked they were in mid 1994 when they saw sony's T-rex demo of the psx hardware and yet they didn't scrap the shitty two CPU design to focus more on 3D

SEGA was already in good terms with martin martietta with the model 2, they could have provided the graphics for the saturn.

>>3752392
>You cannot go back to make the lauch a success.

This right here kills it though. It is because of their shit launch in the first place that Sony and Nintendo pretty much smoked them out in the States.

With everything you said it would be very hard to make Saturn beat out the other two consoles. I guess here is some things I would do.

1. No other consoles made after Genesis until the Saturn. That means no CD, 32x or whatever

2. They need to develop good partnerships (likely means would have had to throw money) at companies like Capcom, Konami, Square in order to get those important PS1 games on to the Saturn as well. They pissed off 3rd parties though because of how they launched the console so they would have had to for sure kiss a lot of 3rd party ass by throwing money at the issue.

3. A 2D and/or a 3D Sonic should have released for it. For 2D Sonic CD could have instead been put on Saturn and for 3D they could have kept developing it until late in the consoles life cycle. Although perhaps it would have been better to wait for the Dreamcast instead.

4. They need to put a ton of games on it, bring over most games to, and they need to market the damn thing way more.

But let us be honest here, too much went wrong. You would need to change a lot more to make that launch a success. I think a better idea for them could have been partnering with Sony instead after Nintendo fucks up the partnership. I wish Sega never died out.

>>3752392
Get Rieko Kodama to make a Phantasy Star 5 bigger and better than FFVII

Make the console hardware faster to be more like the computers of the mid 90's, so that Saturn has better PC to Console ports, and if it can't do real 3D that well, it can at least do fake 3D pretty good enough

Localize Japanese games

Promote Capcom ports

Promote Shmups, and give Battle Garegga a western release

Make a pretty damn good 2D sonic game that takes advantage of the Saturn's hardware

See about getting a good widely released RPG on the console to be a good alternative to FFVII

>>3755884
>caring about fps

found the virgin

>>3752392
Simple. Develop a quick but fancy 2D successor to Sonic & Knuckles (using the existing engine but with Saturnic graphics) to fill the gap while people wait for 3D Sonic. Then deliver a 3D Sonic developed by a Japanese team, the Yanks can keep working on theirs and if it gets scrapped, no worries it's only plan B anyway.

Saturn saved.

>>3756397
>Then deliver a 3D Sonic developed by a Japanese team
So basically an early version of Sonic Adventure on Saturn

>>3752392
>Never make the "Saturn is not our future" speech
>Bring over as many games from Japan as possible
>Get as many multiplats as we can get our hands on
>Put the games in normal jewel cases and not those massive things they used
>Constantly hammer out ads of all kinds. Maybe a Segata Sanshiro/Steven Seagal crossover

>>3755985
>Also there was a 68k on the saturn, why didn't sega add a Genesis slot and make it backwards compatible?

It's not the CPU. Which by then was far from the biggest cost within a genesis. AFAIK, the Saturn sound chip for one had more in common with an OPL* than with an OPN*, and even the model 2 genesis had a cheaper, resented replacement. And I don't believe they could make the CD drive controlled by a Z80 / Z180.

If such a thing was even possible, you'd think someone would have taken the opportunity with a Genesis/Atari ST or Neo Geo/Amiga combo!

>>3756678
>the model 2 genesis had a cheaper, resented replacement
The Model 2 Genesis actually comes with a better version of OPN2. It's the CMOS variant, which includes a higher quality DAC.

Sound only comes up worse because Sega screwed up the mixing circuits. Fix the circuits, and the Model 2 is the best sounding model.

>>3756735
All right then, even better, in that case it just demonstrates how easy it is to screw stuff up when trying to cram two systems into one. The genesis seems rather sensitive to subtle differences, and I bet that's affirmed by some of the fancy wiring that's involved in making the Genesis sound its best...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uEUiOzE294

>>3752421
This. Sega should have focused more on 2d games given that it was the systems strongest feature. It might not have won the market but it could have carved out a comfortable niche.

Fighting games alone were able to keep the Neo Geo afloat for a long time. If Sega had shown similar support to all the quality Capcom fighters on the system if might have improved their chances a least a bit.

>>3752392
Because Saturn did okay in Japan I'm focusing solely on the Western markets

>threaten to fire Yuji Naka if Sonic X-Treme can't use the NiGHTS engine
>Meet with retailers who got duped for the launch to make amends at all costs
>Release the "new" white Saturn instead of muh edgy jet black
>Localize all 2D Fighters and market them as the superior versions
>Postpone Dreamcast development (they were already doing this at the time)
>Release/promote Shenmue on Saturn as its "answer" to FFVII
>Get rid of those godawful CD cases and replace them with the standard jewel case

>>3755665
I suppose it would have costed a fortune, how would you alter your dream saturn to have a sane price in 1996? Take into account that the n64 didn't have a twin pixel pipeline, cd drive, and that they narrowed the system bus to cut costs.

Btw where did you get all that info? I looked up things and what I found is that SH processors costed about $25-35 per unit within a batch of 10000 in 1999 (sure sega got it quite cheaper) and that the sh3 debuted in 1995 (not sure about the dsp but I think it comes a little bit later).

Anyway if the Saturn came out in 1996 Sega should have had to keep the genesis alive and maybe the 32x (with some super scaler games) would have made a lot more sense but sega home business in japan would be quite dry (maybe they could try with the 32x or neptune, virtya fighter and many arcade ports)

>>3757203
An ideally spec'd affordable Saturn in 1996 would basically be an N64 with a sound chip, CD-ROM drive, and separate memory channels for CPU, RCP and sound chip.

That's pretty much it. No other hardware modifications are necessary. Sega would only take a small loss on hardware at most with this combination, but not more than normal for a non-Nintendo company. N64 was so cheaply assembled that Nintendo made big bucks just selling the damn console itself.

>>3755087
>>3755120
>Wasn't another processor added by Sega once the specs of the PSX started leaking out in 1993?
>One of the VDPs, but that's actually a specialized processor optimized for a purpose.

The system had a twin VDP design from the start, taken from the system 32.

It was originally meant to have a NEC V60 main cpu, and presumably the SCU DSP was used as a 3d coprocessor to do t&l, so the system can run Virtua Fighter.

When the PSX was revealed, they made a few small adjustments to the VDP1 in an effort to increase speed, and they changed the NEC V60 to the dual SH2 design.

Sometime along the development they also integrated the CD system, and possibly added another 1mb of main ram for 2mb total (partitioned as 1mb fast sdram and 1mb slow dram that was added later).

>>3755128
>having more games kills a console

It killed the biggest console of its era, the Atari VCS.

>>3755138
>You just can't win selling a technically inferior product at higher manufacturing costs unless your games advantage is enormous. And I'm not just talking about games /vr/ likes but what the mainstream likes.

You just described the Sega Genesis.
It was older, weaker, and more expensive to make (up until the model 2 anyway), yet it was destroying the SNES for years. It wasn't until 1994 and 1995 that Nintendo really caught up.

>>3757203
>sure sega got it quite cheaper

Sega got at least 6 hitachi chips in the Saturn, plus the mpeg card had two custom asics, and their cd drive had anywhere from 1 to 4 depending on the type of the drive. Plus the SEGA CEO was golf buddies with the Hitachi CEO.
And they made millions of Saturns, so they had to order them in huge bulks.

They most definitely got the chips way cheaper than anyone else on the market.

>>3757350
>weaker
HOL UP LIL NIGGA

>>3757350
>It was older, weaker, and more expensive to make (up until the model 2 anyway)
That is very unlikely. There is nothing in the Genesis as expensive as the custom SNES sound module developed by Sony. Furthermore, the Genesis VDP was always a single chip, on SNES the PPU was two chips.

Sega also had an extra two years to streamline their manufacturing model.

Also the Genesis was not weaker - faster if anything - just less colorful.

>>3755827
A 2d focused console would never thrive in the 5th gen. Everyone wanted the delicious 3d

>>3753202
Well, at least sonicmania is gonna try that.

>>3754062
As long as you target the correct channels with your ads yes, they are. Did you know there's a huge market of black weebs that's almost untapped? Go on Twitter when Dragonball Super is airing on Toonami. It's often the number 1 trending topic, even beating out important football games that just ended.

Regular weebs will show up without putting in any effort but you have to drag the fucking casuals in.

>>3757157
shenmue would be a poor answer to FF7 considering it was 3 years away from completion. Panzer Dragoon Saga was around the corner, and is a better game mind you.

>>3752392
the switch one might be good

>>3757368
>There is nothing in the Genesis as expensive as the custom SNES sound module developed by Sony. Furthermore, the Genesis VDP was always a single chip, on SNES the PPU was two chips.

The price of the chip depends on
- how big the die inside is
- the packaging
- the pin count
and also licensing cost, in case you are buying some other companies ASICs.

Genesis had a bigass DIP package chip, a smaller DIP chip, two very high pin count custom ASICs (on older models, one large plus two not so small ones), two different types of RAM for five chips in total (also all DIP), plus the YM2612. It also had more costly discrete components (more electrolytic caps, mostly).

SNES was more streamlined, used smaller chips and only QFP ones, simpler design, etc. The Sony tax was probably the only thing that was noteworthy cost wise.

Now if you say the Genesis 2, then that thing was definitely cheaper to make than the SNES, since they integrated two of the largest components plus the sound chip into one, used cheaper memory, used more economic packages for the 68k and z80, etc.

But between the SNES and the Genesis, the SNES was probably cheaper to produce.

>>3757368
>Also the Genesis was not weaker - faster if anything - just less colorful.

Faster does not mean it was more powerful. Yes, the CPU was much faster, but the VDP was a much older design compared to the SNES PPU, and had a lot of shortcomings. If it was as good as the PPU, then backed by the 68k it could've given the 32x a run for its money.

>>3757496
>considering it was 3 years away from completion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foZUcPQAMvg

>>3758068
>a 3 minute video got put together so the game was ready for release!

>>3758075
>cutscenes and gameplay footage that lines up perfectly with the final product
>THEY NEVER COULDA DUN IT!!!

>>3758110
They would have to cut a lot of corners for the gameplay to release early, and at the end of the day, the whole aspect of Shenmue probably wouldn't be fleshed out, but rather just cut out and would probably end up being a rather boring contemporary RPG with fightan' game elements. I think I'd rather Shenmue on the dreamcast as it is today than have it rushed out on the Saturn... hell, even the Dreamcast version we have to this day has a pretty abrupt ending.

>B-but the gameplay and Cutscenes match up perfectly with final product
Yeah, probably because they cherry picked a couple scenes that were complete enough to show off

>>3756678
>if such a thing was even possible, you'd think someone would have taken the opportunity to make a Genesis/SMS or GBA/GB combo!

>>3752992
This. It would have aged like milk, but it would have done what it was supposed to.

>>3758485
The development of the game moved to the Dreamcast in 1997. So what you see in the video was already done by that time; it is not a stretch to say that they could've turned it into a game release by 1998. Whether it would have everything the DC game had or not is a different question, but it would've been impressive as fuck regardless.

>>3756678
Using the 68k in the Saturn for Genesis compatibility would've been impossible, every other part of the hardware was completely different.

But the Saturn had a cart slot that could take video input, so they could've potentially make a genesis-on-a-cart type of converter cartridge. By 1996 or 1997 it would've been technically feasible as well, since they had the one-chip Genesis hardware already created. It still would've needed a video encoder and a watchdog software (either ROM or perhaps a driver CD) to handle controller interactions, but it would've been possible. Perhaps the only problem would've been the cost of such a thing, since it would've included a complete Genesis.

Sega CD and 32x backwards compatibility would've been impossible though.

>>3758040
>SNES was more streamlined, used smaller chips and only QFP ones, simpler design, etc. The Sony tax was probably the only thing that was noteworthy cost wise.

Now hold on a second. The SNES had more chips on its board, also used different types of RAM. Yes it's true that the early Genesis used quite large chips, but everything except the VDP related stuff (which had a lot of pins) had very few pins.

The Sony tax goes further than just being Sony. Early SNES models actually required a fucking daughterboard, no model of MD needed something like that. The SNES sound chip comes with its own kind of CPU controller, it's not programmable like the Gen's Z80, but it's there.

Just about everything on SNES has a medium number of pins. And yes, the SNES chips tended to be quite small. However, it's a bit misleading to compare 1988 launch model MDs to 1990 or 1991. Sega were progressively integrating and shrinking their components in the lead up to Model 2.

Actually the last version of Model 1 essentially IS a Model 2 inside of a Model 1 shell. In terms of relative production cost at launch, the MD probably did cost more to manufacture (it was more cutting edge in 1988 than the SNES was in 1990 after all). But Sega would have narrowed that gap in the 2-3 years after release around the time SNES came out.

>>3758047
>but the VDP was a much older design compared to the SNES PPU

A real-world fill rate has been calculated between Gen's VDP and SNES' PPU, and the Gen's VDP wins. Why? Because it has access to much faster video RAM. In any case, their sprite output and background tiling engines are of very similar capability

Only thing SNES PPU has going for it is hardware accelerated background rotation/scaling, a hardware blend function and support for a higher color count. Outside of this, the Gen's VDP is faster. Faster / more powerful mean the same thing in this context.

>>3752392
Stop Suzuki from initiating Shenmue Project, make a sonic game

>>3758712
I recently read something about a guy selling vintage milk on Amazon for nearly $200/gallon. Obviously a troll, but the author of the article in whatever allegedly serious new site didn't seem to know that.

>>3757496
I don't disagree with you but I used the word promote because Shenmue was already costing a lot of money so it's better to promote the game your spending a shit ton of money on

>>3755128
>dumping money to localize and produce a bunch of games no one would've bought at launch because 3D was in wouldn't result in further money lost

You're a fucking idiot and Bernie will forever be right now matter how much you shit on him.

>>3758538
The Z80 was a very smoothly cooperative chip. Yet profoundly simple.

The SMS had quite limited hardware aside from the Z80, I never even heard of it having all those extra chips in the carts that NES games did.

Sega never did make a Mac Teradrive, you'd think the prospect of saving on the CPU like that would have been great, no?

>>3759317
>no?
No. In 1990 a 68k cost less than you'd pay for on on eBay today. It was far easier to stick a <$10 part in the box than deal with Apples shit.


>>3759317
>The Z80 was blah blah blah
Not sure what you're trying to say there. Google translate doesn't handle millennial to technical.

>>3752392
Make an ad campaign pointing out how fucking ugly 3d graphics are. Take a screenshot of something like Ridge Racer 1 and compare it to an actual photograph of a similar car on a similar track, and really hammer how fucking shit the graphics are.

Then point out how much more advanced the 2d capabilities are compared to the SNES. Drive home the difference in speed between a game like Pocket Fighter and Tekken 1.

tl;dr mercilessly mock the shortcomings of early 3d while driving home how much better 2d is in 32 bits as opposed to 16

>>3758912
>everything except the VDP related stuff (which had a lot of pins) had very few pins.

The bus arbiter + IO has more pins than the VDP.
Earlier models used two smaller chips for each function though.

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>>3758912
>everything except the VDP related stuff (which had a lot of pins) had very few pins.

The 315-5402 and 315-5433 in VA5 and VA6 units were even bigger than the VDP.

>Early SNES models actually required a fucking daughterboard

Yeah, but they had a lot of spare space on the PCB, so this was possibly a conscious choice. For example they may have had a surplus of those things left over either from development cycles, or from early manufacturing (maybe they were only allowed to get it like that). The Saturn had the CD controller on a daughterboard like that as well early on, but it got integrated later.

>no model of MD needed something like that

VA0 Megadrives had the entire main oscillator on a daughterboard that was put on a pin riser and cushioned underneath. The extra chips on the daughterboard got integrated to the main board in revisions.

MD2 had a similar daughterboard in some revisions (VA2 I think).

>The SNES sound chip comes with its own kind of CPU controller

I don't think that was Sony jewing them, you'd need a controller for the sound chip anyway. Well they could probably run it off the main cpu, but that would make the system even slower than it already is.

>However, it's a bit misleading to compare 1988 launch model MDs to 1990 or 1991.

Not much has changed between VA0 to VA6 Megadrives actually. The fix to the oscillator snafu of the VA0 models got integrated onto the main board, then into one of the ASICs, then they combined two of the smaller ASICs to a bigger one. But no other component was touched - ram, 68k, vdp, all remained the same.

It was the VA7 units that did drastic changes by combining the VDP + IO + Bus chip + YM2612, which was a major cost reduction, plus they also switched to surface mount chips for most components. Only the Z80 and the VRAM remained DIPs. But this was around 1991 already.

So like I said, the Genesis 2 was definitely cheaper to make than the SNES, but the Genesis 1 was probably not.

>>3760750
>1991
But that's when the SNES started going worldwide (wasn't out for PAL until 1992 even). That's the moment Sega had to get their ass in gear and start integrating.

>>3752405
this.

Make it easier to code for, sell it before the PS1 at a cheaper cost, have a pseudo 3D sonic game available on launch. Job done.

>>3761845
I picture a fat naked underage youtube spaz spitting all over itself while saying that.
Tell me how right I am.

>>3759242

Sega doesn't HAVE to localize shit moron. Third party publishing companies will take care of all of that.

>>3762890
>I picture a naked underage
Not right at all.

>>3759650
The Z80 is pretty famous for being a very elegant, uncontrived, low hassle architecture. So much that, when they tried to scale it more towards somewhere on par with normal, fully-featured CPUs, ie. with the Z280 and Z380, it was more or less a disaster. It avoided needing certain significant auxiliary silicon, so a Z80 based computer was relatively simple, meaning the Z80 itself was a big fraction of it.

The 68K on the other hand was a pretty normal CPU, tending to operate with a pretty elaborate set of auxiliary hardware. So much that it scaled up very readily, what with the 68030 doing quite well.

So packing in a Z80 based system is very different than packing in a 68k based system.

$10, ten shmucks, some people here are clearly distraught about that 68k in the Saturn going to waste, so the most helpful thing of that sort to point to to examine would be the terradrive, it also had a non-reused 68k and another CPU (286), it would have avoided such "waste" if it just was a computer with one stronger 680*0. A more efficient terradrive is easier to conceive than a more "efficient" saturn.

>>3762941
>The Z80 was blah blah blah
You kids sure do like puckering your own anuses don't you. Guess that's why you're so full of shit.

>>3759679
That would have been pretty cool.

>>3752392
Market the thing heavily -- Sega's marketing was on point even with the 32X (production issues and no fucking games hurt that, the thing was on its way to sell over a million units but they were only really able to deliver half that and then no one cared after Saturn and PS1, not consumers, certainly not devs), but by the time Saturn was out, that kind of marketing got dropped for no fucking reason.
you know, the marketing strategy that had made Sega actually successful in the home market

No one even thought about the Saturn by 1996, and that's fucking appalling.

Make a Sonic game right from the get go. At the absolute least, do a 2D Sonic game with wild graphics that don't look anything like they would on Genesis, something akin to Rayman.
The important bit is that doesn't look like it could be possible on a 16-bit machine, even to a casual. If Stolar is there, get rid of him. Sony let him go for a reason, why the fuck would Sega want him?

Don't fucking drop the Genesis, so that Sega still has incoming cash flow. Same with Game Gear, which was somewhat successful.
Bundle Panzer Dragoon with every Saturn.
Actually release games -- there's a bunch of games in the west that were PS1 exclusive even though the Saturn version had a release in Japan.
Drop those weird ass cases as soon as possible in favor of proper CD cases.
Kiss some ass and try to get the distributors pissed off about the early launch back on board.

But, every one of these requires such a ridiculous amount of pull that it wouldn't work anyway. I'd need to be the Japanese head.

the most reasonable thing would be to see if I can stop the surprise launch in a week and get anyone making 32X games to move the project to Saturn, even give them free dev hardware for their trouble

>>3752482
by that date, the Saturn's been released in Japan and will release in a week in the US, you literally can't make any changes

Actually make some fucking sonic games.

>>3763257
>Don't fucking drop the Genesis, so that Sega still has incoming cash flow. Same with Game Gear, which was somewhat successful.
Then they could move on to the Nomad! They could start producing Genesis games specifically made for the Nomad, with shorter cartridges and whatnot.

The game gear and nomad would become good when battery technology improves, as well as the efficiency of the actual systems.

A Terradrive-Nomad would be kinda cool too...

Oooooh, they could release a second gen Nomad that's much smaller and uses an adaptor for the cart. Then they could start releasing Nomad games which just need an adapter to play with a Genesis.

>>3752405
>Localize weeaboo games in America and Europe.

They won't sell. Use them as pack-ins instead. Seize a good image like that. And make people pay for the western games and arcade hits.

>>3764378
>they won't sell
Puyo Puyo would be a pretty nice stand in for anyone who wants something like Tetris on console

All the RPGs would be a pretty nice stand in for people who want an RPG on the Sega Saturn

All the ports of Capcom Fightan' games could make the console worth buying for a couple people

>>3755229
Neat.
What about the 3DO? Do you have a graphic for it as well?
Was the 3DO's architecture simple like N64 or complex like Saturn?

>>3762890
No anon, you're just projecting your own twisted fantasies.

>>3755827
>ignore the push to 3D

holy shit, underage deFUCKINGtected

i have so many god damn magazines when i was growing up, EVERY FUCKING ONE was pushing for 3D

EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!

if you weren't fucking 3D, you were an old man and shit. no one wanted to talk to you.

i don't think sega could be saved, thinking about it. looking at what was out at the time, what was in japan (lots of weeb shit that'd be great to localize today, but not back then). i don't think it's possible m8s

>>3755884
didn't even fucking read OP

you CANT go back, asshole. the system has ALREADY launched and your moving forward in spring of 95. what do you do.

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Secure as many devs as possible from launch in a 1-2 year contract to develop games exclusively for our console. Less emphasis on system power, more on title library. Near the end of the Saturns run, partner with those guys at Sony to make something called the Sega Playstation.

>>3766248
They could still do 3d, just handle it better. So stuff like Tomb Raider get longer exclusivity and bigger marketing, while shit like Virtual Hydlide is not allowed.

quality 2d titles could be put on sale for lower pricetags in the meanwhile.

>>3752392
Don't ditch all the successful Sega franchises:

>Sonic
>Streets of Rage
>Golden Axe
>Eternal Champions
>etc.

Even resurrect Alex Kidd if needed.

Make a Shenmue game for it.

Arcade port the hell out of it, and re-make / port all favorite sega titles for it. Offer those as a lower cost games, that fans and other people would just buy for the hell of it, bringing in money with minimal work.
Any and all arcade games that come out, should have a saturn port of some form.

Gotta market it better and push for the sega fan base. Appeal to those fat sweaty hedgehog suit wearing fucks and make them want you like a bitch in heat. Get Steve Balmer to be the hype man.

More bundled in games, or let buyers pick from a few bundled games, force a new sonic game release.

If you could get a few good companies to rely on you and favor you more than the competitors, and have it line up with your fan base, that may be enough to do well.

idk im terrible at marketing, more of an engineer type.

To this day though, i still wish sega was still what they were back in the day. I feel like the industry needs it now more than ever. But they do what they can, I guess.

>>3752392
Take advantage of Sega's IPs and also bring over weeb games, effectively taking in a market nintendo and sony are lacking in at the time.

Release it at the original slated time and not the surprise date.

Retroactively expunge the 32X from ever happening.

Make new installments in Sonic, Fantasy Zone, Alex Kidd, ad other important sega IPs.

Get the marketting team to sub the segata commercials, it seems like a bad idea but trust me that shit wouldve worked, after all look at all the stupid chuck norris memes, segata would've totally fit right in, also give him a game to make the marketting even more relevant to the console.

Establish the saturn as a sort of Japanese to American/Europe Ambassador console, but don't be pushy about it. It could open people's minds to a new sort of style of games that have only been sprinkled here and there on most consoles.

Also make sure to do the opposite to Japan, localize more western games there as well.

Expose how much Sony and Nintendo are catering to non-gamers with poorly made style-over-substance garbage games and make them go out of fucking business while Sega allows for the Saturn to be their last console while preparing to merge with the looming PC Master Race and the impending death of consoles.

>>3752392
Fire a missile at Sony HQ.

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>muh 2D will save the Saturn

I'll just leave this here

>>3769164
"Muh 2D" fags clearly weren't alive back then.

3D was the shit, 2D was considered dated and undesirable; and that was Sega's fault (since their introduction of Virtua Fighter, Daytona USA, etc.).

>>3769164
>>3769254
Their mistake was going back to 2D platforming, which the 4th gen market was over-saturated with. Super Mario 64 was a game changer and they were retards to not realize this.

It's not the perspective, it's the genre.