26 years later, what are your thoughts on Super Mario World?

It was the easiest (due to saving) SMB but also the most fun

I had a blast with the game, but it's criminally easy generally speaking. Cape breaks everything.

>>3739810
>>3739830
Pretty much this. Awesome game but the save feature and cape make it too easy.

>>3739830
>>3739836
For those who mention the problems with the cape, I'm interested: did you try no-cape runs?

>>3739797
Mario 3 is still better.

>OP stuff isn't as accessible
>final world is actually challenging
>loads of more secrets and fun minigames
>physics are tight and solid, rather than loose and floaty

World was pretty disappointing. I mean, a 16-bit game that doesn't have simultaneous co-op? What were they thinking? Though I'll say World has better bosses than SMB3.

Anyone that prefers World to 3 is simply a casual.

>>3739865
>Anyone that prefers World to 3 is simply a casual.

Shit, I've been called worse.

Why did nintendo forget all the cool things about SMW and kept making SMB1/3 rehashes instead? They should make a new Mario with an intrincate and unified overworld map like SMW.

>>3739797
I thought Yoshi was the coolest shit ever as a kid, but now I don't see what's so great about him, he can do anything Mario can do solo, and he's not even that great of a character.

I don't like the one single world map, I much prefer the SMB3 style single maps.

I think the cape looks cool but it's too broken.

Sound effects suck compared to the NES.

Graphics are kind of ugly, and I know the SNES can do better.

I still like it, but I think I like literally all of the NES SMB games more.

>>3739924
They did that in NSMBU

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Super cool new features, terrible (uninspired) level design. Especially compared to SMB3.

>>3739931

Yoshi is fucking cool because when you're on him you feel invincible... When you get hit you keep your cape and you can still try and jump back on him. Plus he acts like a double-jump when you are about to fall in a pit.

Yoshi's Island is better than SMW and SMB3.

>>3740018
>kys
Stick to YouTube comments. You'll fit right in.

>>3739938

nono he said intricate, not "one secret exit per world"

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>>3740018
>art style if for cucks and trannies

>>3739998
Disagree respectfully. Yoshi gameplay isn't nearly as interesting as Mario. And the game is a cakewalk until you unlock the Extra stages, of which only the last couple were legit.

>>3739998
Apples and oranges. They are 2 very different games.

SMB1–3 and SMW (SMB4):
> run/jump physics
> blocks as the key level design unit
> virtually no collectibles

Yoshi's Island:
> added egg physics, but running and jumping are simplified
> ditched the blocks almost completely
> big focus on collectibles

>>3740076
And SMB2 is very different from SMB1, 3 and World. Changing the formula isn't necessarily a bad thing. SMW2: Yoshi's Island was overall more fun and refreshing than previous entries in the series.

>>3740018
>cucks and trannies.
Sure thing, Comrade.

Absolute classic that stands up with the other good older entries like SMB1/2 and USA.

Unfortunately, Nintendo is far more interested in SMB3, the snoozefest.

>>3740083
>And SMB2 is very different from SMB1, 3 and World.
Because it wasn't meant to be a Mario game, dumpass.

>SMW2: Yoshi's Island was overall more fun and refreshing than previous entries in the series.
Why? Because you can throw eggs now? Give me a break.

Spin jump, Yoshi, and cape all defeated the purpose of platforming. Spin jump let you jump on things you shouldn't be able to, Yoshi did the same thing with the addition of being able to get back on him if you got hit. Yoshi also had those overpowered shell abilities and different colors. The cape allowed you to fly over entire levels with impunity.

It's a good game, but I say it's the worst 2D retro Mario.

3 > 2U > 2J > 1 > W

>>3740126
>dumpass
It's all starting to make sense. Between your post and the post here >>3740018, it seems like the people who hate SMW2: Yoshi's Island are mentally challenged.

>>3740147
>muh ad hominem
Go ahead. Waiting for why Yoshi's Island has such riveting game design.

I loved SMW, its not as good as no.3, but still great fun.
My only complaint in the game is the art style, alot of the added enemies seemed out of place in a mario game, like hedgehogs with sunglasses, rugby players,lava monster, the purple blue dumb looking dinosaurs, and bowser in a giant clown thing at the end.
I dont think the music is as good as 3 either.
Its still a fun game, and a great game everyone should play.
I'm particularly fond of the secret exits, and the unlockable hard world.
But nothing will ever beat smb3, in particular its amazing art style, atmosphere and imagination.

>>3740156
>The cartoonish atmosphere on par with the protagonist being an infant
>The egg throwing mechanics
>The mechanics behind what color egg hitting an enemy determining different prizes
>The mini games
>The floating physics
>The genius level design, especially the giant frog
>Poochy
>The different variations of shyguys
>The PROMINENCE of shyguys

>>3740126
>Because it wasn't meant to be a Mario game, dumpass.
SMB2 started life as a Mario game before it was turned into DDP.

>>3740157
> hedgehogs with sunglasses
What? Do you mean moles?

Well, in any case, I actually love the look of SMW enemies. But SMB3 is also amazing. Hard to say which I like more, nostalgia takes its toll on memories

>>3740178
Not only that, but it was developed by the Mario team.

>>3740169
Not him but
> The cartoonish atmosphere on par with the protagonist being an infant
> The PROMINENCE of shyguys
> the giant frog
Is that supposed to be good?…

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>>3740018
Tell us how you really feel

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>>3739865
>loads of more secrets

You know this isn't true.

Anyway, to me it's a tie between SMB3 and World for best Mario game ever, discussing which of the two is the best is irrelevant, I enjoyed and still enjoy both.
I may slightly prefer SMW due to more satisfying and complex physics, but that's it.

>>3739797
Probably my favorite 2D Mario game, with 3 in a close second.

Dunno if it's my favorite overall, but it's up there.

>>3740296
This. I like Super Star and the DKC trilogy more in terms of SNES platformers though.

>>3739931
You just sound like some kind of angry, old faggot who has a hateboner for the SNES.

>>3740291
You can use hammers and other stuff on the world map in SMB3. Same can't be said for World.

>>3740790
>You don't like Super Mario World so you must hate the entire SNES Library

Nice conclusion drawing you did there.

>>3740796
Add to that the hidden toad stool houses for getting all coins in the auto scroll levels

>>3739938
Since when did super mario bros u get here?

>>3739865
Mario 3 is loose and floaty and Mario World is tight and solid, what are you on?

>>3740796
>>3740863

That's cool and all, but all you get for doing that is more items. In SMW you can find whole new worlds with whole new levels.

SMW is the most secret-heavy Mario game.

>>3741532
They're not really secrets if the game tells you the level has multiple exits.

SMW is good, but SMB3 wins because it's harder and you have more options for powerups before entering a stage. Also, it has more powerups.

>>3742163
What about Peach's messages at the end of each world in 3? Her hints are more specific than "all levels with red dots have multiple exits".

>>3739950
>Plus he acts like a double-jump when you are about to fall in a pit.

You heartless bastard.

>>3742193
>it has more powerups.
Real gamers use small mario only anyway. That's why the cape/yoshi arguments are useless.

>>3742218
Only bad gamers chose to read the Toads Tool hints.

>>3742224
Ah, well, this is a philosophical question.

From a design-product perspective, a game should be designed so that every player can find their own level of challenge without relying on their own willpower. So, SMW per se, is "too easy" because if you do your best to get every coin, get every powerup, you're going to make a real easy trip of it.

From a "what is witihin your power to control" perspective, you could certainly do a no-cape run, or small Mario run of the game, but you have to use your own willpower to behave yourself. While you COULD do this, you also COULD play the stock market, get a better job, go to sleep on time, improve your diet, so if you ask me, diddling around with myself to make a game more interesting is a foolish waste of time, but I won't begrudge anyone for doing so. And I can't complain too much because I enjoy the occasional speedrun stream.

>>3742232
Addendum: I prefer games that are like "Henh! Hey kid, you think you're good at videogames? Try this!"

>WHOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA SHIIIIIIIT

Probably the reason I like shooters.

>>3742224
Good luck trying to 100% Mario World with just small mario, ya cheeky cunt.

>>3742243
SMB3 requires powerups for clearing some levels though (that one level in world 6 that requires you to fly holding a shell)

>>3742231
How do you choose not to? Close your eyes? The screen appears when you clear a world.
In SMW, however, the hints are entirely optional since.

I'm being ironic people, discussing this kind of shit is autistic as fuck, both are great geemyus

>>3742253
What the frick are you talking about

>>3742261
There's at least one level in SMB3 that requires a leaf powerup. Although you can get it within the level itself.

>>3742264
This. One of dungeons has a wall that you must pass and it's comprised of blocks that can only be destroyed by tail.

>>3742261
Excuse the ASPECT RAIDOU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bVNU3xqSi0

>>3742224
100% true.
One of my favorite things to do a few years ago was take alpha-pvp and play lost levels using only small mario.
Small Mario is best mario, what he lacks in durability and offense, he gains in maneuverability and reduced attack area.

>>3742264
Oh, you're talking about that looping ice level. Is it possible to walljump up there while holding a turtle shell?

>>3742278
Hmmmmmmmm, OK, what world and level is it? I'm gonna take a look.

>>3742264
Wasn't there also a ghost castle where you have to fly in a pipe on the ceiling?

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SMB3 and SMW are about equal. But they're very different games.

SMB3 came out with the express purpose of being the Best Thing on the NES. It was a platform that'd been out for ages, and they brought out this massive game that would push it to its limits. There are few games for the NES that feel as polished or feature-complete.

With SMW, they were making it for the launch of their new console. They apparently started by porting SMB3 and adding in features they wanted. The result was a game that brought things up a notch from the previous gen: it's said they couldn't do Yoshi well on the NES, it had this huge open world, nice number of secrets and puzzles, etc. But it was rushed to fuck. Look up the development of it.

I prefer SMB3, since it's a better challenge. It's fun to come back to, while in SMW I'm just trying to remember where the difficult levels are. The cape is like P-wings all the time. Spinjumping on spinny razors, are you fucking joking me?

But it's not really a bad thing. It's for kids too! And it really is such an appealing and fun game, probably more so than SMB3. So the easiness isn't such a bad thing in a sense.

>>3742221
Lol no, you've gotta do the Yoshi sacrifice, it's hilarious. Nobody mentioned that drumbeat when you get on Yoshi - one of my favourite things in the game.

>>3740296
See this is what I'm talking about. Those games came out like 5 years later.

I'm not crazy about Yoshi's Island either. It's just lacking....fun. It feels like a chore to me - I think I'm not the only one. Cool if you like it, it's a great game.

>>3742318
Shit I missed my quote. Shoulda said:
>>3740321
DKC and KSS are like 5 years newer than SMW

>>3742318
They aren't "spinny razors" they are saws, circular saws, specifically.
Just an fyi

>>3742334
Haha, I knew there was a better word than razor!

Spinny saws, right you are.

I don't get what the point of deleting a post is when like five people are quoting it and crying

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>>3742681
dat butthurt

As a kid, I never got to play SMW for too long, but I loved every bit of it. It was my first Mario game. My friend showed it to me when I was 8, and I was blown away. I only had Genesis at the time, and I felt there really was nothing like it on it: the save feature, the huge map you could walk on, the switch places, the complicated levels with impressive physics… I was sold on SNES for life.

And weirdly, I first played SMB3 only after SMW. At first I hesitated to play it because I prepared for a huge downgrade; but when I first turned it on I was surprised that it felt more advanced than SMW in so many ways. Everything just felt more balanced and polished, with way more secrets, more coherent and thought-out level design, better challenge, and so on. That's when I first felt a bit disappointed about SMW.

Time has passed, and the more I play SMW nowadays, the less excited I get about it every time—and I used to absolutely adore it. It had that sense of mystery and discovery, with all those secret passes, switch places, Star Road, and so on. But now when I play it, a lot of the levels feel kinda small and bland. Ghost houses used to feel hard, now they're just boring.

Also, back in the day, I mostly used average jump out of habit. And only recently I have learned that you can spin jump on 99% of enemies and obstacles (yeah, I'm that slow), and this hit me because of how cheap it felt.

The same change happened to me with the art direction: I used to absolutely adore the cute cartoon monsters and blocks. But the overly basic graphics eventually spoiled it for me.

So while of course it's still one great platformer, when I think of it now I just can't help but see the flaws, more and more apparently. I guess I expected too much from it: I thought it was a definitive Mario game, a turning point in the franchise, a showcase of the best that 4th gen had to offer, improving on every old aspect… Maybe it's not all that, but it's still an excellent game.

>>3742749
While I respect your opinions and own impressions, you're still wrong about SMB3 having more secrets than SMW.

>>3742753
Well, I never claimed otherwise, it's just my personal view. I never compared it by pure numbers. I liked how in SMB3, there were more invisible blocks, different tricks like new ways you could open with P-switches, etc. Not to mention breakable blocks on map, secret toad houses, etc.

Of course SMW has all the secret exists and such. It also has cleverly placed 3-ups, the star road, and of course the Special Zone. So it does have more secrets, albeit of a slightly different kind. But I found less smaller secrets and puzzles which made you use your head… Though again, this is just IMO.

>>3739797
Pros
>Colorful graphics and nice sprites (i still love the world map).
>Cool songs. Sounds are also nice.
>Star road and special world were just incredible.
>Revisiting old levels was a nice touch. It gave a deeper feeling of exploration.
>Motherfucking Yoshi.
>Switch palaces were an insteresting attempt at padding the game a litte bit. I enjoyed.
>Nothing in gaming history is more rewarding than find a new secret key in SMW. NOTHING.

CONS
>Unbalanced powerups. Cape is just OP as fuck and no one ever used the flower, except for world 1.
>Luigi is Green Mario.
>SMB3 bosses were real fights. At SMW they are more like giminicky puzzles.
>Less upgrades.
>The stages at SMB3 represent better their respectives worlds.
>cape tempted the players to just skip everything by flying.
>Blue yoshi is very easy mode.
>retarded choice with that whole just one song with different motiffs...

If you played SMW on release - it was the best thing ever. Nothing could compare, it was a huge step forwards from the former NES game.

This is a fact.

If, like most of you here - you played it years or decades after initial release, it does not have that magic ofcourse.

Nothing to do about that really.

>>3739797
A much better engine that wasn't as well utilized as SMB3.

As others have pointed out, the glaring flaw with World is that it is insultingly easy. Even if you take out the cape, blue Yoshis, and other powerups, the levels just don't demand the same level of skill that SMB3 required to beat. The overworld map was better, Yoshi was great, and the graphics were obviously a step up, but the levels just weren't as inspired or challenging as SMB3, and that ultimately held the game back.

That said, there's a reason that all of the great ROM hacks use the World engine. It's great, and I wish Nintendo would have had the guts to use it to its potential and challenge gamers the way they did with Mario2(JP) and Mario3.

>>3745193

I played it not long after release as a kid.

Was pretty underwhelmed

I never knew Super Mario World was an SNES game, playing it on a big screen must be amazing.

I got it for my fifth birthday along with a Game Boy Advance; it was the first game I ever played and I still absolutely love it. It was a long time playing before I stumbled on Donut Secret somehow, and that just blew my mind that there was this whole other world. And then Star Road did it again!

I love the music, sound effects, sprites, and mystery; I still play it.

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>>3745271
>but the levels just weren't as inspired or challenging as SMB3, and that ultimately held the game back.
My brain knows this… But my nostalgia prevents me from accepting this

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>>3739797

After you use the star road to reach the alternate reality - they should have recycled a bunch of levels from the prior NES games for content, just adapted to work on SMW mechanics.

It was a nice easter egg to be in "acid trip mario world" but I think it shoulda had a bunch of extra content to make a kid Super Smug at breaking into it.

>>3739830

Up there on top of one of the ridges there's a simple Fortress and a map or two before that there is an opportunity to get like 99 fucking lives in one map.

Its slightly hilly and you have to dodge the critters for most of the map, but there is a Gray P Block near a bunch of spike turtles.

Intended for you to get a 1 Up from the Silver Coins they turn into but...

If you time it right that means you can keep going back the way you came and collect silver coins from ALL of the critters you passed by . . . the game gives you so many lives that shortly into that each silver coin is giving you 2UP and 3UP at a time.

When you encounter harder maps later on, just go back to this map and tank up again if you're truly getting whomped.

>>3745289
I kept seeing it being available for play on one of those in-store kiosks near the electronics section.

I loved playing it because the graphics and sounds were so good compared to what I had seen before. But thats all I really saw of it because my parents wouldnt let me have an SNES.

After I played it as a rom I still liked it, but it was only about as in-depth as SMB3 and even then it was fairly easier and more forgiving (because of yoshi).

So yeah ill agree, kinda underwhelming, but alot of SNES titles were too. Nintendo was experimenting with going for glitz and glamour while neglecting gameplay

and while it was just an experiment, unfortunately it proved people would buy something just because it was snazzy.

>>3745271
And excellent and well-thought-out post. Thank you for coming, sir.

While my own personal opinion is that SMW is a better game, if an easier one, it's undeniable that SM3 squeezed more out of its game engine than SMW did from its own. I can't believe I never saw that before.

>>3739797
never played the snes version but the gameboy advance version is one of the best games ive ever played.
It's a video in its purest form.

>>3747515
>video
video game.

>>3740142
>Lost levels better than Mario 1
Opinion disregarded

Loved it as a child and I'm fond of it as an adult, but it's the least likely of the classic Marios for me to go back and play.

I think a major thing that sets it apart from the other games is being able to save your progress. That actually makes a huge difference, especially in difficulty and the way you approach the game in general. Being able to revisit levels was also a first for the series, and while it was convenient to be able to explore them as much as you want, there's something lost from the earlier games where you could only do each level once per playthrough. Only being able to play a level once made the levels more significant by making them kind of temporary, I guess, and it made secret exits and warps a lot more valuable once you knew about them.

I think Mario World is a pretty good indicator of a shift in gaming and particularly Nintendo between the arcade like NES and the more long form games of the SNES. Mario World was a game you could continue, a game you could explore completely in a single file, a game you could beat 100% (well 98 or whatever it was). It was a game you could finish. Really finish. Compare that to the earlier Marios, if you beat those games you hadn't, how should I say this, exhausted them? Once you've gone through the special world in Mario world, there isn't too much left. That weird world that appears after with the masked koopas and bird bullet bills is just a pallet swap of the regular game and kind of a wasted opportunity imo, wish they'd done something like the first game where enemies become faster and get replaced with stronger enemies.

That's not to say that the game doesn't have a lot of value, I still hold it in very high regard. I absolutely love the interconnected map. Discovering special world like fifteen years after I thought I'd found everything the game had to offer is one of my fondest video game memories. It absolutely blew my fucking mind.

>>3747576
As an addendum to this, I don't really consider the more long form approach Mario World takes to be a bad thing. I just prefer the more arcade like nature of the earlier games, but I can totally see why someone would prefer a game where they can pick whatever level they want, explore any level as much as they want as many times as they want, and really finish the game completely. It's just a matter of tastes.

>>3740169
did you meation the best dog poochy

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some anon said it

>>3747581
>best dog in Mario
How many dogs does Mario series have anyway

>>3747876
There's the robot dogs from SMRPG and the doogan species from paper mario games. And the Hot Dogs from the wooly world.

>>3739797
>adding a 3rd button to Mario
Really WTF?

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>>3748587
That's not many, and all of these are from spin-offs.

That's actually pretty surprising… Since Mario is such a down-to-earth, simple dude, he could have gotten a dog long ago. I understand he's from a fantasy world and stuff, but I think that'd suit his personality.

>>3739797
>>3739830
>>3739836
Save feature, the game throws powerups and 1ups at you every 2 seconds, forgettable soundtrack outside of a few songs, way way way too fucking easy. SMW was the beginning of the end for Mario, by the time SM64 came out the series was done.

>>3748628
>by the time SM64 came out the series was done.

You are now aware there are more Mario titles released after SM64 than before it.

Anyway, this thread just shows how contrarian and edgy people on the internet like to be.

>>3748634
>You are now aware there are more Mario titles released after SM64 than before it.
No, that was pretty blatantly obvious. It's Nutendo's biggest cash cow. There are also more seasons of The Simpsons past 8, that doesn't mean those are good or even competent.

SMB 1-3 were excellent games. The series started slowly going downhill after until we get to the toddlerware shit of today, because Nintendo are afraid of making anything that's not saccharine bullshit that constantly holds your hand and makes you feel as powerful and unstoppable as a Cawadooty protag.

>>3739858
no, losers just complain about games now.

>>3748647
>having to force yourself into arbitrary challenge runs to make a game even the slightest bit challenging

This is how you know a game is shit

>>3739797
The game is pretty broken due to the cape. Kinda ruins the game. I have way more fun playing Super Mario World 2 than this desu.

>>3739858
I have, yeah, but it just feels forced. Your default game shouldn't *require* me to handicap myself. It's just bad design.

>>3739865
>physics are tight and solid, rather than loose and floaty

Completely disagree on that. It's actually quite hard to play 3 if you're used to tighter controls of other games. But I'll admit that 3 might have the best game design.

>>3742749
Despite its flaws, SMW is still better than 99.999% of all games. If SMW seems bland to you, I can't imagine there being much games you enjoy.

>>3749320
Well, I said that it feels blander than SMB3, and only after I've played every world several times. It's not bland on its own, it's still one of my 20–30 favorite games I'd say.

For platformers, I did enjoy SMB2 and 3. That said, I don't go back to them often. Somehow, despite I used to absolutely suck in any Sonic, I like Sonic more now than I used to like anything Mario. Also I like Megaman X a lot.

>>3745193
Yep, I spent that whole summer completing SMW on my 19 inch TV with clunky dials to change the channels.

>>3739797
I think it might just be the greatest pack-in game ever, in terms of fitness for purpose.

It's accessible, and while perhaps easy to more skilled players doesn't really fall into being outright dull. It's rather large, giving you something that will keep you occupied for a good while (quite necessary in the early days when there aren't that many titles on a system) it's visually pleasing (though I suppose it's not an amazing demonstration of SNES capabilities most of the time, it's okay.), and it ties into a wider first-party franchise while being a perfectly fine stand-alone title. (drawing attention from past players and building interest for future releases from people who've bought what might well've been their first console)

>>3748640
>nintendo is kiddy etc etc

yawn.

>>3742339
all circular saws are going to spin you retard reeee

>>3751279
He's right and you know it. But continue enjoying those kiddy games if that's what you're into, I guess.

>>3739797
It's the easiest mario game. By far

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>>3752850
thanks, I'll do, but I also enjoy kiddy games on Sega systems. Opa-opa a best!

>>3739810
This.

>>3748706
But it's so easy to just...not use the cape. It's very easy to avoid. Not forced at all unless you're going for 100% in which case cape is necessary at some parts.

>>3739865
>Anyone that prefers World to 3 is simply a casual.

Absolute worst kind of person

>>3752850

>jumping into a Super Mario thread on a retro board to let us know how hardcore you are

Lel, that's fucking pathetic

>>3739797
The people whining about it being too easy are retarded. Mario has literally never been difficult or about being difficult.

>>3740076
Jumping in Yoshi's Island has as much or more depth than any other 2d mario game.

>>3740142
>Spin jump, Yoshi, and cape all defeated the purpose of platforming.
You're allowed to beat the game without using those things, you know. That's the beauty of having a brain. You don't have to do everything in the most obvious way like a zombie.

>>3742232
>From a design-product perspective, a game should be designed so that every player can find their own level of challenge without relying on their own willpower.
Why? Games that offer choice and freedom are better than games that pidgeonhole you into bullshit.

>>3742243
>Good luck trying to 100% Mario World with just small mario, ya cheeky cunt.
There's only one exit in the entire game that requires you to be anything other than small Mario.

>>3742318
>There are few games for the NES that feel as polished or feature-complete.
Kirby's Adventure and Gimmick! are really the only NES games in the same tier as SMB3.

>>3757390
Not really
—Flutter jump makes aiming much simpler and gives more control in mid-air
—Fixed running speed means easier jumps
—No P-meter/fly jump

When it gets hard is at later stages, when you need to hop on several enemies in succession while fluttering.

>>3757398
fluttering without losing height is literally a 2 frame window, and doing that while aiming is hard as shit.

https://youtu.be/fyyX3-nlF2I?t=2m

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>>3757391
>That's the beauty of having a brain. You don't have to do everything in the most obvious way like a zombie.
Oh, let's take a look at that cover… Hmm! Now way! Have you ever noticed this? IT'S MARIO WITH CAPE RIDING ON YOSHI. I wonder what the devs meant by this?…

>>3757405
>I wonder what the devs meant by this?…
They meant "here is the most obvious way to play the game."

>>3757394
by this logic, kirbys epic yarn is hardest game in the world - provided you hard reset the console every time you collect something.
challenge runs =/= actually designed difficulty. i get switch palaces or grinding as 'pick your difficulty' meethod, but youre literally asking for a challenge run that cuts out one of the biggest features of the game.

>>3757403
And?… I completed the game 100% and barely had problem with it outside of few stages. Meanwhile, Mario can't flutter at all, jumps are harder in any SMB because your momentum affects much more. With Yoshi's flutter jump, you can correct any shit jump in mid-air.

>>3757394
>>3757407
like what i mean is - without cape, game is less varied than SMB3 overall. Cape was the big selling point, it's on the fucking cover, together with Goomba Shoe 2.0 aka "Yoshi".

>>3757410
difficulty and depth are different things, buddy. Depth means that you can do more stuff with existing mechanics.
Symphony of the Night has fuckloads more depth than Castlevania 1 for example, while it's also at the same time much easier game.

So yes, Yoshi's jumping is easier partially because flutter gives you a ton more options. Similarly, that's also why Super Mario World is a much easier game than SMB1 - because of new options and tricks you can do with items and powerups - and why New Super Mario Bros games are easiest in the series, because with walljump, triple jump, air twirl and grond pound player has huge moveset to overcome obstacles.
Deeper game can be easier or harder than a more shallow one, there is no direct relation.

>>3757406
I think they meant to demonstrate the key new feature of the game. Which, according to your logic, I should avoid for some reason, just to enjoy it. And given that SMW only has power flower beside cape, this makes it kinda… limited, don't you think?

Do you imply that cape was put there just as easy mode? But then, what the hell—how was I supposed to deduct that the real enjoyment was in avoiding the main features which the game obviously urged me to try? Should I not trust the devs and the game now? This is fucked up.

>>3757417
Initially I said
> added egg physics, but running and jumping are simplified
And where did you take that I said that they lacked depth? I simply said they took away some complicating factors from SMB, like momentum, and made aiming easier. I meant simpler as "less complex". That's it.

>>3757418
>Which, according to your logic, I should avoid for some reason
Well you're whining about it, so it makes sense that you would want to avoid it.

>>3757418
>how was I supposed to deduct that the real enjoyment was in avoiding the main features which the game obviously urged me to try?
You've already deducted it, and thanks to that deduction, you've been given replay value.

>>3757410
When speaking about a Mario game, the only relevant "skill" factor is the skill ceiling. There is no Mario game with a meaningful skill floor. Even Lost Levels is piss easy.

Yoshi's Island has a higher skill ceiling than SMW or SMB3.

>>3757469
>Yoshi's Island has a higher skill ceiling than SMW or SMB3.
I think it's just comparing apples to oranges. The games are different and that's what I initially meant.

>>3757467
It's as counter-intuitive as it can be. It's like saying you should go slow in Sonic, avoid shooting in Doom, etc. These self-imposed challenges can be cool, but I don't understand how a game filled to the brim with feathers in every block, with cape as its headliner feature, could have been built for NOT using cape, never coherently communicating it to the player.

That said, I'm not against the idea and actually want to try it out. After all, when 95 out of 96 exits are reachable without cape, it does make you think. Still, going so much against the current just to get the decent level of challenge from a game feels ridiculous.

>>3757568
>It's like saying you should go slow in Sonic
Everyone goes slow in Sonic on their first playthrough. You don't really get good enough to go fast until you've done several playthroughs.

>>3757568
>It's as counter-intuitive as it can be
needing developers to hold your hand in order to discover the depth of a game is exactly why modern games are shit.