What the fuck is "fun" about these games? What exactly

You tell me.

>>3597656
What's the appeal of Mario? Just jumping on stuff?

>>3597656
>What the fuck is "fun"
really gets my noggin joggin
>>>/v/

>>3597656
It's a 2D platformer. You move around in 2D and jump on platforms. That is the fun. Here's your legit reply. Now fuck off back to your room.

>>3597656
It's a fun platformer with neat design and physics. It really doesn't get much deeper than that.

I hate what e-celebs have done to Sonic's reputation by equating a couple bad games as to mean Sonic was never good or something.

Sonic was never good, its just desperate sega fanboys trying to justify their fatherless childhoods

>>3597656
>Was it really just "lolgottagofast"?
Except that it wasn't.
That's what people don't seem to get.
From what I've always remembered, Sonic was a platformer with some action sequences in between. For some reason people only focused on the speed.

>>3597656
It sucks. The platforming is bad, and when you get good at the game, you're essentially just cruising past all the bad gameplay you had to do once.

Boring game, but beautiful in its own way.

Also the corpse of this "game" still lives on except now they don't even pretend to be as good as mario, they want to be good as "original" sonic, even though it was never good to begin with.

It's a fucking 4D trainwreck in perpetual motion, but at least the games are playable unlike ugly Crash Bandicoot. I truly pity anyone who had parents miserable enough to buy them that game.

>>3598258
>The platforming is bad

Get good.

>and when you get good at the game, you're essentially just cruising past all the bad gameplay you had to do once.

It's called replayability. The levels were designed with that in mind.

>Boring game, but beautiful in its own way.

Take that fedora off.

>>3598226
>>3598258
Yet another pair of hipsters telling Sonic fans what they're not allowed to like.

>>3598068
Genesis advertisement.

>>3597656
Once upon a time people played video games for entertainment.

>>3598317
He said it was bad, not hard

>>3597656
High skill ceiling, low skill floor
Amazing physics engine

>>3598258
>you're essentially just cruising past all the bad gameplay you had to do once

You look like someone who never played Sonic saying something like that. Sonic has great level design, the levels are huge and complex, they often offer different kinds of platforming sessions, each time you play the game you can pick a different route. If you think that's boring, go play Mario, where you just have to go from A to B and stomp some enemies.

>>3598323
You're grounded.

I played sonic quite a bit. It was fun, but I realized Sonic's weaknesses. Either you go fast as Sonic is supposed to, but you take damage or die doing that. If you slow down its not as fun but you make it through.

I'm tired of being brain damaged by internet memes.

Sonic was never about "gotta go fast", one of your millenial friends came up with that shit, and since it was repeated it came to be regarded as cool and funny.

Sonic was designed to be faster than Mario, it was just that type of game. When comparing F-Zero to Mario Kart do you say "omg F-zero is all gotta go fast".

>>3597656
>Either you go fast as Sonic is supposed to, but you take damage or die doing that.
Maybe if you're bad at the game

>>3598356
>Either you go fast as Sonic is supposed to, but you take damage or die doing that.
Sonic 3 and Knuckles was really great in that it had almost none of that. Also, with some levels (like Green Hill Zone) it's a matter of learning the level design so you can run through it continuously.

>>3598356
Youre supposed to get good enough to go fast and not get hit too
Sure you just drop your rings but you also look like a bitch

>>3598361
I gotta laugh at you throwing meme at me. I haven't discussed sonic since probably the 90s, just came on this board in the last month and this is the first thread I've seen about sonic. Probably the first time in my 22 years on the internet reading or posting about sonic. But keep on thinking everyone is just a talking meme

>>3597656
Going fast makes me feel alive.

>>3598334
No, he was blaming the game for "bad platforming". Anyone worth their salt can maneuver just fine. He's just bad, simply put.

>>3598374
Okay first of all, you seem to be talking as if you're OP so you could have said that instead of making me guess jerkface. Secondly "gotta go fast" is the meme I'm talking about and you obviously came across it or saw it somewhere or you would never had said that, nobody ever said "gotta go fast" regarding Sonic in the 1990s. So lay off with the horse shit.

>>3597656
>Great, coherent visual style and design choices
>Solid soundtrack throughout
>Well-implemented physics
>Lots of secrets to find
>Memorable bosses
>FAST

Gee I dunno OP it truly is a fucking puzzler as to why anyone would like the original Sonic games...

>>3598068
>I hate what e-celebs have done to Sonic's reputation by equating a couple bad games as to mean Sonic was never good or something.

I hate how they equated Sega's current lack of good games beyond Sonic and Yakuza, to the Genesis never having any games other than Sonic.
It's like Streets of Rage, Alien Soldier, Gunstar Heroes, Comix Zone, Vectorman, Strider, Columns, Ranger X, Alisia Dragoon, Aladdin, Beavis & Butthead, Earthworm Jim, Super Hang-on, Ecco the Dolphin, none of those existed on the console. Only Sonic 1-2-3-K-Spinball-3D.

>>3598258
>The platforming is bad, and when you get good at the game, you're essentially just cruising past all the bad gameplay you had to do once.

That's the same fucking thing you can say about Super Mario Bros 3 or Super Mario World, once you get a raccoon tail or a cape or a blue Yoshi.

>>3597656
I'm not gonna flat out say sonic sucks, but Mario is way better and the sonic games are boring as fuck. Even the 'good' ones.

>>>/v/

>>3598402
No; Mario is fun.

>>3598361
>>3598390
Gotta go fast is from the Sonic X theme song. That show premiered in 2003.

>>3597656
hating on sonic is such a meme now…
It came out in '91 you gotta think about the context. for the time it was incredible. yeah you "lolgottagofast" but the colours, level design, music, character animations… it was all something that hadn't really been seen yet, and all with a strong marketing campaign.
20 years later it's still a "decent" platformed, but it's all about the context.

also

>lol underage fag
>>>/v/

>>3598356
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_chronometry

>>3598402
>raccoon tail
that always ends up screwing you moreso than it helps you
>cape
ok yeah the cape being broken is like the one unanimous flaw in mario world
>blue yoshi
oh you know that thing there's like two of in the whole game

>>3597656
You can't even go fast because as soon as you do you hit spikes or something that were off screen.

I grew up with Sonic and really don't find the games very fun. The physics are designed for huge jumps while goan fast but in order to progress through the game you have to play it slow and cautiously where the moon jump physics are awkward and unresponsive. Mario games allow you to enjoy "goan fast" much more than Sonic, unless you spend the time to learn how to speed run them which isn't fun for most people.

As I kid I only really started to like Sonic when we got Sonic & Knuckles. Knuckles' glide ability made the game much more responsive and fun by allowing you to zoom around a bit more without being punished for doing it.

>>3598687
>you hit spikes or something that were off screen

If they were off screen you wouldn't run into them.

>>3597656
Games dont stand the test of the time. They werent bad for when they were released, but they didnt deserve the credit it got back then, and nowadays most people realize the games are just above average.

>>3598483
It is a meme because it is true. A lot of Sonic was marketing, graphics, and using speed on auto pilot as a gimmick.

It wasnt a bad game when it was released, it was actually good, but it is far from being a excellent game worthy of remembrance. The games are 7/10 at best.

It is decent. Compare that to Mario 3 or Super Mario World, that even today are AWESOME. Compare it to Zelda games. It doesnt stand out.

This is from historic perspective. When Men in Black came out for instance I liked it, fun movie. In retrospect it is just average. Compare it to Blade Runner which is still a work of art.

If Sonic was a movie it would be a super blockbuster full of marketing relying on CGI, but 5 years later it is forgotten. Compare it to the Citizen Kane of games or the Star Wars of gaming, it just looks bad. It is basically gaming equivalent of a Michael Bay movie from the 90s.

>>3598226
>having a father
>4chan
lol

>>3598687

Basically this. The game was marketed as some game were you would go really fast. In these auto sections where you just had to hold down a button it worked, but overall it would just cause you to get hit. So you were left with this slow platforming that was kinda loose and not that fun.

Now Sonic fanbois always argue "but but if you memorize the whole level you can actually play the game as it was advertised and it is fun." That is a weak defense. If you need to memorize a whole level just to play like it is supposed to be played that is not a good game, it should be like that by default.

Compare to Mario. You dont need to memorize a whole level to actually play it like it is supposed to be played, it is fun from the beginning.

The trial and error approach to gaming is considered bad game design. The games just arent that fun. Sonic relied on flashy graphics, a stupid early 90s radical/edgy attitude, and lots of marketing. literally Sonic was not designed by good game makers but is pure cooperate focus group type creation marketed to slightly older kids.

>>3598519
You can get an infinite amount of blue yoshis though. And I don't see how a raccoon tail fucks you over, unless you suck at the game of course.

>42 replies
>32 posters
embarrassing

File: Sea_Labryth.png (12KB, 320x224px) Image search: [Google]

12KB, 320x224px

>>3597656
>"lolgottagofast"

this is a maymay, it's mostly applicable to modern sonic games, like sonic unleashed (daytime stages) which barely qualify as plataform games

classic sonic games were very well structured, they were more focused on platforming, but quite a few of them encouraged or even required exploration (like the 8-bit version of Sonic 1 and Sonic CD)

>>3597656
I love this game but out of nostalgia more than anything else. I first played this in 1992 and it was revolutionary at the time. kids nowadays don't appreciate how mind blowing SEEEEEGAAA was or how advanced the music and graphic design were at the time. It's a great game in its own right not GOAT tier but more 8/10.

what was fun about it? its a platform game, it plays much like other platformers, the goal is to reach the end of a stage without dying and beat the boss to progress to the next stage. It was a very popular genre in the 90s... There is nothing truly unique about the gameplay in sonic. It really didn't try to reinvent the wheel, just polish it. if you like this type of game i don't see why you wouldn't like Sonic unless you're some sort of hipster contrarian who hates on it because its popular.

>>3598746
What is with this recent trend of whining that obstacles are impossible to react to in Sonic?

Memorization isn't necessary for moving through Sonic levels fast, just having functioning reflexes and pressing down on the d-pad.

>If I can't do it flawlessly on the first try it's BAD GAME DESIGN
Fuck this retarded attitude. If you want to be a whiny bitch that gets upset at challenges, go ahead, but don't insist that it's anyone's fault but yours. Would you claim that baseball is "badly designed" because you didn't hit a home run the first time you picked up a bat?

>>3598697
>were off screen
ESL?

>>3598746
It's not a bad game, but definitely not a great one.

>>3598904
>ESL?

Reading comprehension, and you're the one to talk with the "something that were off screen" crap.

>>3598887
The game says "hey, shoot off that ramp into the air and fly across the level, it'll be so fun and fast and exciting!!!"

and then you land on some spike or an enemy and die.

So you play through the game more slowly, like a normal platformer, but the physics are floaty and unresponsive, clearly designed for the high flyan yuge jumps and zooms.

It's not that difficulty = bad game design, it's that the game sends the player mixed messages. The game eggs you on to zoom around and do big jumps and then punishes you for it. Whereas games like Mario 3 or Shovelknight can be quite difficult but are fair in their difficulty.

Sonic is trying to be a normal platformer to compete with Mario on one hand and an exciting zoom coaster on the other which causing a dissonance in player expectation.

>>3598727
>Compare that to Mario 3 or Super Mario World, that even today are AWESOME.
>>3598746
>Compare to Mario. You dont need to memorize a whole level to actually play it like it is supposed to be played, it is fun from the beginning.
>>3598914
>Whereas games like Mario 3 or Shovelknight can be quite difficult but are fair in their difficulty.

I hate this thread.

>>3597656
>easiest game on genesis
>wahh its too hard 2 go fast

Momentum based platformer that encourages high speed and fast reflexes. The game rewards you for speed with pathways that get you to the goal faster.
Now that being said, I prefer the sequels more than the first game.

>>3598914
i don't understand this post, it's like you completely missed the point of the game

speed is just another tool you can use to do things, you don't need to go fast, but sometimes you are rewarded for doing it the right way, other times you are punished for doing it the wrong way. it's classic risk vs reward you'd see in any platformer

the old sonic games were better about using it correctly and placing things like springs, ramps, spikes, etc in the right place so that you generally wouldn't just get blindsided. the only real weird flaw i can think of is that you usually need to press down whenever you go fast otherwise you'll get hit. so in that sense it's not really a choice you have to make, it's something you have to get used to

the spikes are actually a really cool mechanic because they don't just kill you, they only take your rings, but you can walk on them so there are actually a lot of situations where you can cleverly use them to damage boost.

the newer sonic games seem to be loaded with instant death bottomless pits whereas these were actually fairly uncommon in the older genesis ones. this i do think is terrible design and should not happen

>>3598938
it's funny because early marios were all loaded with instant death bottomless pits, i don't know why people expect to apply that style of play in a completely different game

>>3598887
Not at all because the way the game is you wont see what you are going into. Bad design. It isnt about reflexes because unless you already know what is ahead you will just go into something.

If the players wore mask so they can only see 5ft in front of them that would be sonic, and yes that is bad design.

I am sorry to ruin your childhood, but that is shit-tier design. Game is 7/10 at best.

>>3598940
Game isnt hard. It is not fun. It is very hard to have fun with it. If you want a slow platforming game with mediocre controls it is easy.

>>3598971
Game actually punishes you for going fast, which is how it is marketed to play. The only time you can really move fast is during auto-pilot sequences where you have no control.

I understand people having a certain preference in games, but I never understood the whole "Sonic was never good" meme. Seems quite contrived to me, like you're looking for issues.
>"Uhhhhh...I hit things sometimes."
>"Ummmm...the controls are...ummmm...they're bad and stuff."
>"You just go fast and shit..."
>"90's something something aged badly."
Again, it's fine if you don't like the games. It's personal preference. But don't dismiss the many people who do enjoy them as idiots and wrong. Maybe I'm just an asshole myself for mocking other's points, but I feel like if it weren't for Sega's misguided future attempts at Sonic games then the quality of the Genesis titles would rarely be questioned.

>>3599004
Saying Sonic was never good is not fair, and I am person bashing here.

It was good when it came out, but nothing that special. Definitely not god tier game. Not even very good tier. Just good tier. 7.5-8 on release. That isnt bad, it is good. Nothing great.

In retrospect Sonic 1-2 are more of 6-7 game.

Many of the people saying "Sonic in retrospect isnt that good" are the very people who loved it as a kid. Now that we are older wiser, and understand gaming better we see flaws we overlooked when we were stupid kids. We still cherish the memories.

So this whole argument is wrong. Nobody is saying Sonic is not good. It isnt that good.

The reason newer Sonic games suck is because the whole series doesnt hold up today. As several people said Sonic relied too much on having good graphics, good marketing, and giving the illusion of the speed which is gimmick. After a few years it became old. Sega tried to improve the base gameplay, but the gameplay cant be improved because it isnt that good. The new sonic game based off the old gameplay is going to be average at best, because the gameplay is average, or slightly above average at best.

Mario has shit games too, Mario is missing and whatnot. The gameplay still holds up. Zelda too, the gameplay and mechanics are still based off first gameplay and can be improved upon. Sonic cant be improved. The whole "I is fast" nobody cares about anymore. Having better graphics than Nintendo is now not something people care about either. Nor do they care about Sonic's extreme early 90s attitude.

>>3598990
>Not at all because the way the game is you wont see what you are going into

No.

>isnt about reflexes because unless you already know what is ahead you will just go into something

You keep saying that, but no.

>Game actually punishes you for going fast

It punishes lack of reflexes.

>which is how it is marketed to play.

Am I supposed to give a shit?

>The only time you can really move fast is during auto-pilot sequences where you have no control.

Or the ones where you build so much speed you die because of engine limitations.

>>3599026
>>No.
Yes

>>You keep saying that, but no.
you keep denying it but yes

>>It punishes lack of reflexes.
It punishes going fast or trying to play based off reflex

>>Am I supposed to give a shit?
People that want a fast and reflex based game give massive shit about the false advertising and how Sonic is a lie, a slow clunky platformer

>>Or the ones where you build so much speed >>you die because of engine limitations.
If the engine cant handle the speed they shouldnt have built a game around it. I see Sonic developers went to the John Romero school of game design "this is cool idea that engine cant handle but fuck it lets make a shitty game anyway"

>>current state of sonic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu3_mhOQ8o0

>>3599037
>current state of sonic
Woah dude, I see you love EPIC memes too! ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvNQw9MROns

>>3599020
>It was good when it came out, but nothing that special.

Yes it was. It looked 2x better than anything at the time and it played 4x better than any videogames this side of the arcades. And it had motion and gravity physics that nothing had at the time, which is something I'd expect /vr/ to recognize seeing how you bitch non stop about Mario All Stars having wrong jump physics being a game breaker.

It may not be anything special now, but in 1991 there was nothing to compare the game to. They put it next to SMW in 1991 in a trade show and nobody gave a shit about Mario World because Sonic looked much better in motion..

>>3599097
It had good graphics. Gameplay not really. In 1991 it was a game with good graphics and above average gameplay.

That is why it is shit on today. The game was just marketing.

>>3597656
Sonic the Hedgehog was a huge watershed game. It was the first game I ever remember girls playing. Back then, girl gamers were few and far between.

But for some reason, girls seemed to universally love Sonic. Whenever I had a group of friends over at my house, the girls would always want to play Sonic.

I've tried to theorise why they're drawn to it: is it the instant gratification of the exhilaration of speed? Is it the no-death saftey net of collecting rings? The cutesy animals?

Fuck knows. But Sonic was absolutely privitol in encouraging girls to take up gaming, I have no doubt about that.

>>3599140
>The cutesy animals?
Probably this. Keep in mind that the average video game protagonist back then was just a burly 80's action dude.

Most Sonic games do indeed feel pointless aside from being pleasing to look at and having good music to listen to, but Sonic CD actually has pretty good gameplay.

>>3599145
Honestly, I think it was the rings mechanic. Previously, games required a lot of skill to play, which usually put off girls. I know that sounds sexist but it's just the way girls are.

But Sonic allowed them to play with a safety net - you won't die if you keep collecting rings. The simple gameplay also made them feel empowered; "keeping pushing right and I'm running so fast and just looped the loop!!!"

They were getting the best out of the game right fromthe first level with the minimalist of effort.

I think all those elements combined drew the girls in. And cutesy animals sure didn't hurt.

>>3599020
Eh. I didn't grow up in the 16-bit era, but I still love the Genesis games. And some people do legitimately act like Sonic was never good.

>>3599157
I did grow up in 16-bit era, hell I was around for 8-bit era.

People liked Sonic, but it was never that big of a deal. It was widely agreed Nintendo was better, even back then.

And the people who dont think Sonic was good must be from your generation. I can understand kids today not getting Sonic, gameplay is pretty meh without perspective. That is because it isnt a great game.

Kids today can enjoy original Mario games or Super Mario 3. They can enjoy Contra and other games from the generation, but not Sonic because it isnt that good. It isnt a bad game per se, but today it doesnt hold up, and that is because it wasnt that good of a game even when released.

Sonic 1 was just a tech demo of the Genesis, which was cutting edge when released. Sonic 2 a slight improvement on that. Sonic and Knuckles more of the same. After Sonic and Knuckles nobody cared anymore.

>>3598068
>neat design and physics

Sonic physics are a bit floaty, though. It's hard to notice when you're going at constant topspeed 90% of the time, but try manoeuvring him after a full-stop or try changing directions while you're jumping and you can feel it takes a bit too much for him to accelerate. This makes him feel heavier than he should. And then if you hold the dpad in one direction for a moment (in air), he ends up building too much speed making the process of changing directions a lot slower.

But then again, you just can't notice it most of time.

>>3599163
Don't forget that Sonic also game birth to that "critters with attitude" fad during the early 90's. Fucking Bubsy The Bobcat, Aero The Acrobat, Zool.... ugh...

>>3599163
dude like we get it you're all into nintendo now please back up any of your claims instead of spouting the same vague bullshit over and over

>>3599185
It has been explained to you in great detail.

>>3599179
basically. Bubsy was fast moving too. Same gameplay as sonic just came out later. Sonic was better than Gex or Bubsy if that will calm you triggered Sonic Fans down.

>>3599125
>Gameplay not really.

Tell me a game from 1991 that was a 2d platformer with better and as fast gameplay.

>>3599170
They are not floaty, you just require some effort to build momentum. That was the whole point - you could build up a CRAZY amount of momentum and then do 6 screen tall jumps.

No 2d game at the time was comparable to that.

>>3599202
>>Trigger Warning
It doesnt have good gamelay with speed.

You can go fast with bad gameplay or go slow with bad gameplay.

Speed in Sonic is a meme. He doesnt even move that fast, and at the speed he moves at often you careen into something that cant be avoid with reflexes due to shit controls.

If Sonic was a speed based reflex game, that would be fun. It is an easy game where you can run around and lose rings and get them back, boring. Or you can take it slow and not lose rings and still be bored.

>>3599210
Yeah it relied on gimmicks. Jumping really high !=good gameplay. It was cool to see when it first came out, but that is just because Genesis was new. After it became common with new hardware, nobody cared.

Sonic is like the Matrix of gaming. It was cool the first time you saw it, if you saw it when it first came out. After 1 year it was kinda annoying and cheesy. In fact Sonic is like the Matrix in many ways, lots of marketing and style over substance.

>>I know Kung Fu!
>>Look Sonic can jump really high!

Look these people are wearing leathers and are all 90s gothic/industrial looking while they do slow motion bullet dodges! So Awesomes!

>>3599194
>great detail.

>marketed as a gottagofast game
>this means you have to know how to gottagofast even without experimenting with the game's physics (protip: you can't)
>gottagofast gets you killed in a conveniently placed spike wall or hazard in which level I won't even mention because I need to sound as vague as I possibly can

And all of this is false, since you have se jumps/rolls at your disposal to get out of the way. It only gets really hard to if you're hitting terminal scrolling speed which is 16 pixels/2 tiles per second (and that never fucking happens unless you know what you're doing or you're playing Chemical Plant) and even then you're given the opportunity to do last second frame-perfect jumps if you're good enough. Might as well complain about Punch-Out for having "bad design".

>>3599240
At least punch out there are reflexes involved and you are in control. In Sonic some spring launches you into spikes.

And you dont die. You just lose the rings so you stop going fast.

Sonic you dont die for going fast. You only die if you go fast, get hit by something that cant be avoided because of bad gameplay, and then decide to go fast again.

So yes, shit gameplay. You actually described the problem quite well. The game is easy, full of annoying stages like the underwater one. Full of annoying springs that send you randomly into unavoidable things. And the gamee isnt even that fast to begin with.

Another poster summed up Sonic perfectly with.

>>You could jump up six screens, no other >>game did that

It was just better technically because it was on a 16-bit system and it was early on in release of it. It didnt rely on good gameplay but woah factor from the hardware, and after it stopped being cutting edge nobody gave a fuck about Sonic. He was used up.

>>3599246
Jesus, your typing style is giving me a headache. No wonder Sonic games are too hard for you, the English language is enough of a challenge.

>>3599259
English has structure, unlike Sonic which sends you flying everywhere in bad gameplay.

And Sonic isnt hard. It is easy. Really easy. Just boring. I would prefer a challenging speed/reflex game. Instead you get an easy platformer that is slow with bad controls.

>>3599246
>In Sonic some spring launches you into spikes.

Name the level.

>You just lose the rings so you stop going fast.

Yeah except hitting a spring while you're fast requires ungodly levels of precision so that you also stop going fast to get on there. If you're talking about horizontal springs, then they can also be dodged with ease. Please tell where did Sonic hurt poor Anon.

>get hit by something that cant be avoided because of bad gameplay

Boy do you like repeating yourself over and over. I need proof.

>full of annoying stages like the underwater one.

I had a feel you would move the goalpost like this, if the "can't be avoided" thing didn't turn out for you.

>Full of annoying springs that send you randomly into unavoidable things

Again, name them.

>And the gamee isnt even that fast to begin with.

It's pretty fast.

>>3597656
Dude I get that sonic fanbase is really cancer.
But the first games for the sega genesis are good and they had a huge impact on the industry.
So please stop trying to be the hipster retrogamer with your shit memes like "was it THAT good? xDD?".

>>3599268


>>Name the level.
pick a level
>Yeah except hitting a spring while you're fast >requires ungodly levels of precision so that >you also stop going fast to get on there. If >you're talking about horizontal springs, then >they can also be dodged with ease. Please >tell where did Sonic hurt poor Anon.

So as you admit core gameplay mechanics involving speed need to be avoided. Stop riding Sonic's d.
>Boy do you like repeating yourself over and >over. I need proof.
You got proof. You are proven wrong. Yet you keep going. Either you know you are wrong and are refusing to admit it or you are too autistic to understand why you are wrong. Not my problem m8


>I had a feel you would move the goalpost like >this, if the "can't be avoided" thing didn't turn >out for you.

No it is about the bad gameplay and design. You admit I am right, you wont even talk about it. Basically you said "yes you are right the gameplay is shit but you went too far showcasing bad level design of water levels."

There is your proof. You even admit it.
>Again, name them.
Ill name them again. Springs, spikes, robot bugs, etc. Ive named them several times you cant understand.
>It's pretty fast.

No it is slow. And when you stop going too slow, although still slow, you hit something that cant be dodged by skill/reflex due to bad gameplay.

Shit-tier game

>>3599272
God they are cancer, who are these people who cant accept honest and widely agreed flaws of the game. Nobody is saying they cant like Sonic, but they demand that everyone suck Sonic's cock like they do and refuse to admit all of its obvious flaws which are numerous.

>>3599273
>he can't name any unavoidable springs

ezpz

>>3599212
>Speed in Sonic is a meme. He doesnt even move that fast

show me a game in a home console that came out before Sonic and moved as fast.

>>3599278
its still a better game than Mario World.

>>3599316
With sonic I cant show you since Sonic didnt move fast.

SNES master race chiming in I played Somari & Knuigi collection back in the day and ya know its kinda like trying to get feather in SMW and flying/floating through the whole level except that's every Somari level in every Somari game.

Now because of the OG cartoon all I eat is chili dawgs and wear red and white addias

>>3599323
>With sonic I cant show you since Sonic didnt move fast.

still faster than any game that came before it.

>>3599353
Science says Sonic is pretty slow.

http://www.geek.com/games/scientific-analysis-discovers-sonic-the-hedgehog-is-actually-quite-slow-1596081/

game is a lie

I had never played a sonic game until this year, and I always heard they were all shit. I played through 1 and 2 recently and I had fun.

>>3599359
>Game Theory video link in disguise
Disgusting.

Videogames are measured in pixels, not meters.

>>3599375
Notice you arent disputing the article. It is clear you cant. I take this as your admittance you are wrong.

checkm8

>>3599383
But I did. Are you retarded?

>>3599383
Not him but I will dispute it: sonic slows down on PURPOSE because he'd be otherwhise running at the speed of sound, and we wouldn't be able to listen to those catchy tunes.

>>3599405
You are the retarded one as you cant understand.

Your whole argument is REFUTED.

Game Over

You know, no game is without flaws.

I just think people enjoy having a predisposition that rustles Sonic fans' jimmies due to all the Internet memery surrounding the franchise. The shitposting in this thread sounds like something that's found and belongs in /v/.

>>3600186
Duh, the whole thread is /v/.

>Hurr what's fun about this?
Does anyone really give a shit? Do you? This is all just a side-drama.

/vr/ got hit with shills recently, so if you're looking for a reason for the mood change, there it is.

>>3599212
>If Sonic was a speed based reflex game, that would be fun.
Sonic Generations?

>>3600186
This. Also, if you want to give reasons why you dislike Sonic, at least give evidence. If you talk about speeding into obstacles, give an instance where the games do that. If you say that Sonic controls poorly, give an instance where you loose rings and die that would be solved by better controls. Etc. Anyone can say that a game sucks for vague reasons like "Controls badly", but when the majority of people disagree, you can't just say that without explanation.

>>3600304
I'm not OP, I just agree with his premise, and even I like Sonic Generations.

>>3600186
>We shouldn't be critical of retro video games on the retro video game board.
>/v/ is for game design discussions

>>3599316
>>3599202
Mario effectively plays faster because you can zoom through it while still being in control of the character and where he lands without the entire level memorized.

>>3599004
Sonic is fine, but it gets way more credit than it deserves. I liked it as a kid, but only really liked it when we got Sonic & Knuckles which gave you some more control over what was going on without walking through the level.

>>3599210
You build crazy momentum then fly through the level then land on some spikes and die OR you walk through the level and platform and jump on enemies with the floaty physics. This is exactly the issue with the game, there are two ways to play it and they both have issues.

>>3599272
Critique of Sonic's game design doesn't have anything to do with Sonic fans. Is it not too much to ask to have a discussion about game design (and not fucking crt's or why retroarch sucks) on the retro games board?

>>3600316
These issues happen in almost every level of the game. It's an issue with the how the game was designed.
Green Hill Zone has you blazing through the level but you often get stuck hitting a wall or hitting a ramp wrong and losing all your momentum. It's also easy to a wasp if you don't have their placements memorized.
It's also very easy to have your fast ended by running into a powerup box

Just watch this video of someone playing through Mystic Cave zone. They seem to know the level pretty well but are still getting caught up trying to jump to jump on shit because the low traction controls don't work well at slow speeds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RGsqR70kes
>cont

>>3600349
>>3600316

I don't have the levels memorized to give exact locations but just play Sonic and see if don't get run into any issues with your high speed getting stopped by something in the level that you couldn't predict, or the low traction + floaty jumps causing issues with what you are trying to get sonic to do.

Further, those of us here that are critiquing Sonic have given more than enough evidence. We expect that you have played the games, which it sounds like you haven't if you have never experienced the controls/physics making you retry simple maneuvers repeatedly or having your high flyan super fast run stopped by a powerup block or a monkey in a tree.

That is bad game design. It is not fun to try over and over again to jump on a power up block because you are on a slight incline. Good game design gives you intuitive and responsive control over the game.

>>3600368
>Further, those of us here that are critiquing Sonic have given more than enough evidence. We expect that you have played the games, which it sounds like you haven't if you have never experienced the controls/physics making you retry simple maneuvers repeatedly or having your high flyan super fast run stopped by a powerup block or a monkey in a tree.
I've played Sonic 1, 2, CD, 3 and Knuckles, and I think Sonic controls pretty damn well in those games. I think more of the issue stems from level design, and Sonic 3's level design had pretty much none of that. But I think the reason I enjoy Sonic as much as I do isn't just because of the gameplay, but the presentation. The graphics and music are great. I really like the vibes you get from Sonic as opposed to Mario. To some it seems like 90s cheese, but after playing Sonic for a while going back to Mario can still be fun, but it feels much more bland and generic. That's just how it appeals to me.

>>3600349
>Mario effectively plays faster because you can zoom through it while still being in control of the character and where he lands without the entire level memorized.
>without the entire level memorized.

oh haha fuck no, you can't.

>>3600390
When people complain about Sonic's level design, they may have a point, but just because Sonic is fast doesn't mean there is no challenge in maintaining your speed. If you want to continuously go fast, then play an endless runner game on your phone.

>107 replies

>>3600349
>Critique of Sonic's game design doesn't have anything to do with Sonic fans. Is it not too much to ask to have a discussion about game design (and not fucking crt's or why retroarch sucks) on the retro games board?
The problem isn't critique of Sonic, it's the dismissal of those who love the games. It's one thing to say "I never saw the appeal of Sonic", and another to say "Sonic is bad." Also, we gotta realize that there are two ways to approach a game. 1. Would most people consider this game to be good? 2. Do I consider this game to be good?

2D Sonic isn't even fast. Games like Heroes? They're fast (too fast tbqh). Being fast in Sonic is a bad thing anyway. You die if you go to fast.

>>3600389
The music, graphics, and branding are great, I agree. However, we are talking about game design (which is inherently linked with level design). I'm not saying itt's a bad game, but it's flawed.

>>3600407
I'm not saying that liking Sonic is wrong, but that there are flaws in the game design. There are movies and albums that I love that I know have some objective issues. Something being flawed =! someone can't like it or they are stupid for liking it. At the end of the day it's all subjective but doesn't mean critiques are not useful or interesting.

>>3597656
>What the fuck is "fun" about these games? What exactly is the appeal here? Was it really just "lolgottagofast"?
I didn't like the first one, but the 2-player racing mode in the second one was fun. What other game even has 2D platform racing?

>>3600567
Agreed.

>>3600610
It was weird how everything was so squashed, though.

>>3598396
You forgot Truxton.

Also Comix Zone is the absolute tits.