Was he "our guy"? >killed off the cancer that was

File: eDhyZjV4MTI=_o_segata-sanshiro---sega-saturn-shiro.jpg (9KB, 349x240px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 349x240px

>was he "our guy"?

Nice meme

SoA apologists are probably the worst kind of people on /vr/.

>>3589458
>killed off the cancer that was Saturn
>A console which beat N64 in Japan and was pretty close to PS One
Are you one of those "Western 3D games are better because they are 3D and they are Western" faggots?

>>3589458
He is the scapegoat for SOJ killing the Saturn.

In my eyes, he redeemed himself when he announced the DC for $200, knowing that it would get him fired (Sega wanted it to cost $250).

>>3589469
>that one autistic SoJ fanboy who always posts Segata and responds within minutes to anything pro-SoA

Admit it, weeb, Kalinske was right: Saturn was terrible hardware cobbled together with no coherent design or regard to how the industry was progressing. And Stolar having it killed off as soon as possible was the best decision that could be made for Sega. No amount of shitty dating sims or JRPGs being localized would have saved it. The market clearly wanted 3D, which is why Dreamcast is the second most successful Sega system, but by then it was too late due to the many failures thanks to SoJ.

In before you start praising Japanese developers who have no say in the actual business decisions of Sega.

>>3589524

>that faggot OP SoA cocksucker who thinks every anon posting Segata is the same guy

Anyway, I respect Kalinske for having made the Genesis successful in America.

Bernie was always a hack.

>>3589524
> Implying US market was the whole world
Also,
> Dreamcast is the second most successful Sega system
Lel. How about you get your facts straight first.

Genesis: 29.54 mln (lifetime worldwide sales)
GameGear: 10.62 mln
Saturn: 8.82 mln
Dreamcast: 8.20 mln

DC sold about the same in US and EU as Saturn did in Japan alone. Meaning, Sega could've stayed stayed in Japan with Saturn and be the strong #2 like PC Engine was in the times of SNES.

>>3589524
The problem with killing the Saturn was that it caused everything Sega had built up the past 5 years, market share wise, to go to dust.

Even if it had shit hardware, they still could've released tons of games for it. It would've lost against the PSX, yes, but at least it would've sold SOMETHING still, which is better than skipping a generation entirely.

And once they improved on dev tools, the 3d capabilities could've been increased greatly. Remember all the 3d lightning in the Lobotomy games and Burning Rangers, or the fogging in Sonic R? Those could've been standard devkit features available for all 3d games.

>>3589586
The real problem with Saturn, and this is truly the elephant in the room, is that Sega were selling it for an enormous loss to compete with Playstation.

Saturn was incredibly expensive to manufacture, it has a shitload of components and bus pathways. Sega's losses per console on it were almost as big as Microsoft's on the original Xbox.

Whether Saturn had good marketshare in Japan or not is IRRELEVANT. Saturn was not profitable, in fact, it was a big loss spinner. Sega's software sales weren't close to high enough to offset.

File: orange.png (487KB, 576x338px) Image search: [Google]

487KB, 576x338px

>>3589574
>Saturn: 8.82 mln
>Dreamcast: 8.20 mln
Nice shitpost

saturn release 1994
discontinued 2000

dreamcast release 1998
discontinued 2001

so dreamcast more successful

>>3589624
Every console (except the ones by Nintendo) is manufactured at a loss. They make up the loss with software sales. Plus, they could've made the console cheaper to manufacture with increased parts integration and leaving out unnecessary components - but they never bothered with the necessary research on that, they just made minor tweaks to the design.

>Saturn was not profitable, in fact, it was a big loss spinner. Sega's software sales weren't close to high enough to offset.

Wrong. Sega was making a profit up until 98, when the Dreamcast launched. Then they went heavy in the red.

File: xl.jpg (13KB, 218x265px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 218x265px

>>3589637
>Sega was making a profit up
>Saturn's failure cost Sega over 250 million

>>3589458
Great Man

>>3589629
>so dreamcast more successful
So successful, it had to be discontinued after 3 years.

Also, Saturn got discontinued in 1998 in US and EU. It also launched in 1995 there. Thanks Stolar, great job.

>>3589637
>Every console (except the ones by Nintendo) is manufactured at a loss. They make up the loss with software sales.

Yes, except that loss is usually very small (like $20) and recouped with the sale of one or two pieces of software. Sega's loss on Saturn was over $100, and by some estimates, considerably more than so.

>they could've made the console cheaper to manufacture with increased parts integration and leaving out unnecessary components

That just isn't possible with the Saturn. There are far too many discrete parts and buses. It's not just a matter of putting components on the same die, you need to internally simulate the same bus speeds despite the fact that the components are literally positioned more closely otherwise everything breaks.

>Sega was making a profit up until 98
Those '98 numbers will actually reflect activity from '97, but I digress.

Two reasons: first is that Saturn's losses were being offset by Sega's good Genesis/Mega Drive worldwide sales and strong arcade bushiness. These started to considerably weaken by 97.

Second, Sega was slashing the price of the Saturn much harder towards the latter years. However, unlike the Playstation, Sega weren't successful in driving down production costs considerably.

I mean, this was the absolute insanity. Sega were trying to price match a competing product that started out cheaper to produce and became even cheaper to produce while trying to sell a product that barely had its manufacturing cost ever change.

>>3589551
>>that faggot OP SoA cocksucker who thinks every anon posting Segata is the same guy
Your butthurt over me calling you out proves I was right. Get a fucking life.

>Bernie was always a hack.
No, he's the reason there was such huge demand for Dreamcast. Not as great at advertising as Kalinske and co., but still good enough to push a plethora of units in a short period.

>>3589574
Actually Dreamcast sold over 10m units.

>>3589747
>No, he's the reason there was such huge demand for Dreamcast.
It's almost like you willingly ignore the fact that DC was discontinued in 3 years after its release. Due to the ""huge"" demand for it.

>>3589763
That was because of Sega's debt, had nothing to do with Dreamcast not selling well. It just didn't do well enough to save Sega, sadly.

File: US_Inflation-Adjusted_Revenues.png (74KB, 1213x681px) Image search: [Google]

74KB, 1213x681px

>>3589704
>Those '98 numbers will actually reflect activity from '97

... which is when development of the DC started. Meaning designing new hardware, new ICs, new PCBs, dev boxes, an entirely unique disc drive with its own media (meaning higher costs than standard bulk parts), etc.

>Genesis/Mega Drive worldwide sales and strong arcade bushiness. These started to considerably weaken by 97.

Megadrive sales already started to weaken in 95; plus the 32x didn't help either.
Arcade sales were still very strong in 1997. And note that they also released the NAOMI in 1998, which cut back costs in the arcade business a ton compared to their previous boards (compared to a model 3 cab which could cost $10000).

>Sega was slashing the price of the Saturn much harder towards the latter years. However, unlike the Playstation, Sega weren't successful in driving down production costs considerably.

Sega was actually revising the hardware constantly to reduce the manufacturing costs, plus they heavily reused existing components. It's why you have early model 2s having model 1 motherboards, and why at one point you had 4 variants of the same type of motherboard (one variant using a newer type, cheaper component, and an other one using an older type one they still had in stock).

If you've opened up a launch date unit and compared it to a 1998 made one, you'd see the huge differences the two have.

Plus they were getting stuff in bulk from Hitachi anyway, so the manufacturing costs weren't THAT extremely high. Obviously not as low as the PSX, but then the console itself was never as cheap as the PSX anyway. And since they had better software sales, they recuperated those costs.

>>3589458
The Saturn and Dreamcast both sold 9 million consoles.

He was not "our guy"

>>3589489

>Saturn sold close to the number of units to the PSX.

PSX has 102 million units sold.
Saturn has 9 million units sold.

Let's put into perspective just how much Sony crushed Sega with their entry console.

Take the amount of Sega consoles sold ever, even handheld. Sony sold 30 million more units than that.

The Playstation killed Sega, not Bernie or anything else.

File: santasanshiro.gif (498KB, 400x300px) Image search: [Google]

498KB, 400x300px

>>3589747
>Your butthurt over me calling you out proves I was right. Get a fucking life.

You are the one assuming I was some guy who posted fucking Segata before. probably some other anon got you told posting Segata, and you're here for more tolding. Fucking SoA fags, I swear. It seems it's not the first time you're making threads like this, and I am the one who should be getting a life? ha.

Keep sucking on that cut dick and using memes such as "is he our guy" and "admit it", you sound like a real teenager who is "in", dude!

File: 1467247759846.jpg (249KB, 704x538px) Image search: [Google]

249KB, 704x538px

>>3589965
>can't think of a comeback
>resorts to insulting OP and pretending it's the same person
>feels compelled to get the last word in
>"I'm not the one who needs a life!"

>>3590184

>faggot that always makes Bernie threads with /v/-tier memes such as "is he our guy"
>somehow tries to tell other anons who calls him on his bullshit that they're all the same person

https://warosu.org/vr/?task=search2&ghost=&search_text=&search_subject=&search_username=&search_tripcode=&search_email=&search_filename=bernie+stolar.jpg&search_datefrom=&search_dateto=&search_op=all&search_del=dontcare&search_int=dontcare&search_ord=new&search_capcode=all&search_res=post

You're just an autistic guy who hates the Sega Saturn. Nothing else to see here, really.

File: arch.jpg (221KB, 1262x2810px) Image search: [Google]

221KB, 1262x2810px

>>3589796
>... which is when development of the DC started. Meaning designing new hardware, new ICs, new PCBs, dev boxes, an entirely unique disc drive with its own media (meaning higher costs than standard bulk parts), etc.

You have to remember that Sega themselves emphasized that the Dreamcast was explicitly created using off-the-shelf parts to save on costs, although there are plenty of logistical considerations as you say.

GD-ROM is barely a new technology, it uses the exact same laser as CD-ROM with focal adjustments to account for more condensed pits.

>Megadrive sales already started to weaken in 95

They certainly started to weak a little bit, but Mega Drive survived all the way until 97.

>Arcade sales were still very strong in 1997

I was talking specifically about Sega themselves - they were kings of the arcade in the early 90s but towards the end they started to head up extremely fierce competition from Namco who ate hard into Sega's marketshare.

>If you've opened up a launch date unit and compared it to a 1998 made one, you'd see the huge differences the two have.

I have opened many Saturn models before and compared for my own interest. The differences are extremely minor compared to the drastic changes Sony made between launch PSX and the SCPH-700x models released late '97 early '98.

>Plus they were getting stuff in bulk from Hitachi anyway, so the manufacturing costs weren't THAT extremely high

Dude, Sony made almost all of the PSX components in house. Sega may have had a cosy relationship with Hitachi but it couldn't secure as good deals as an in-house effort.

You have to remember that Saturn has like three Hitachi CPUs, a 68k, two VDPs, a Control Unit with DSP, shitloads of different bits of RAM, some re-writable memory for saves and it goes on and on.

Compare that to PSX which was extremely simple, or N64 which was even more simple than that.

>>3590201
>resorting to digging up random anons' posts in the archive which he thinks somehow proves his bullshit

Autism confirmed. Next time instead of sperging out because someone else doesn't suck tiny yellow dick, try having a civil conversation.

Protip: even your Jewpanese overlords considered Saturn a flop. Deal with it.

"B-but muh obscure weeb RPG's" - Every SOJ fanboy

>>3589524
>SoA fans exist
I love photocopied instruction manuals, Bob the Janitor cover art and paying $99 for PS4 as much as the next guy as well.

File: seinfeld jerry confused.jpg (28KB, 450x563px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 450x563px

>>3590590
> shitting on obscure weeb RPGs
> on an anime board

>>3590590
>G-get the fuck off of 4chan weeb
Ayyylmao

>>3590518

Are you trying to tell us those autistic posts with the same picture and filename and the same "Saturn sucks!" kind of posts isn't just you and your autistic ass? Because you aren't convincing anyone.

>>3590643
Actually, it's more than one person. I actually posted >>3590184 because your little crusade is hilarious to watch and I wanted to see it continue. The fact that you kept sperging out and thinking I was the other guy is just the icing on the cake.

Please continue. I find it genuinely entertaining to know that I can post a handful of sentences and have you generate several responses full of impotent rage for me to laugh at while I check on this thread during my morning session on the john.

>>3590827

And what made you think I was the other guy that was arguing before? What makes you "totally aother guy, not OP guys I swear" other than the fact you say you aren't?

And even if you aren't, the link posted here >>3590201 proves that OP is a shitty shitposter, so whatever, defend him if you want.

>>3590915
>shitty shitposter
looks like you

>>3591094

>y-you too

>Leaves SCEA
>Joins SOA
>PSX does better
>Saturn does worse

>>3590590

Saturn was more renowned for its fightan than its RPGs. Nice try, though.

File: 1456658273543.gif (2MB, 270x262px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 270x262px

>>3591143
>Saturn
>renowned
Every one hated it at the time, Virtua Fighter was literally a joke, westerners stuck with Kombat and SF.

Fast forward to current day, fags who were babies or not even born when it was released hail this thing piece of trash as the most underrated console of all time.

>>3591157
>and SF
Saturn had best versions of Capcom fighting games though??

>>3590620
>anime and rpgs are the same thing
kek
>>3590623
>ayylmao
>>>/2013/
>>3591143
Exactly, but I've seen people post that if -insert RPG here- was release it would've saved the Saturn

>>3591157
/thread

>>3591157

But why are you so mad?

Genesis>Dreamcast>Master System>>>>Saturn

>>3591489
Dreamcast>Genesis>Master System>Shit>Saturn

segata was our guy

I'm convinced that anti-Saturn posters are buttblasted ebay cucks.

File: sadfrogdead.jpg (21KB, 600x630px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 600x630px

>>3591525
>ywn be able to afford Panzer Dragoon Saga

>>3591525

I bought a saturn + rhea.

I tried out all the """"great"""" games. Shitty 3D, shitty ports, weeb aesthetics everywhere. Anime cutscenes shoehorned into almost every game regardless of genre (looking at you, Radiant Silvergun). Some good shmups though.


It sits in a box in my closet now.

>>3591563
>shitty ports
>saturn
Sure, you tried it.

>>3591568

Name five Saturn ports that were better than the PS1 or arcade versions.

>>3591568
>>3591563
>>3591590

Well, I guess I should have pointed out that I don't like fighting games and am pretty indifferent to checkpoint racers.

So if you can still name five games I'll be impressed.

File: petermoore.jpg (890KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

890KB, 1920x1080px

I think we can all agree this was Sega's worst president.

>killed Sega so that Microsoft could take their place

>>3591616
I never understood why Sega didn't co-develop the Xbox with Microsoft and release it as a joint console. I understand there were plans to but I don't see why it fell through

Saturn was a poorly-designed chipset, with lacking software releases for the Western market, that cost too much money to manufacture and effectively killed Sega as a hardware company.

>>3591837
Microsoft realized that they didn't need Sega cause Sega were going to release games on the Xbox anyway.

It's not as if Sega had the money to do proper console R&D at that time anyway. Microsoft were lazy as shit and rich enough to throw together PC components into a big box anyway.

>>3592475
saturn games visually looked exotic and sexy to me in 1997. I really wanted one as a kid.

>>3590510
>You have to remember that Sega themselves emphasized that the Dreamcast was explicitly created using off-the-shelf parts to save on costs, although there are plenty of logistical considerations as you say.

Off the shelf parts means that they save the money that would be spent on designing custom ICs. They still have to buy shitloads of those chips and manufacture them. And in 1998, that was done simultaneously while they were selling Saturns; which they dropped immediately and thereby killed their largest market share console in japan.

>I have opened many Saturn models before and compared for my own interest. The differences are extremely minor compared to the drastic changes Sony made between launch PSX and the SCPH-700x models released late '97 early '98.

Launch model Saturns were a nightmare to assemble with 4 PCBs stacked/wired together, with some components on the top of the unit and some on the bottom. Late 98 models used a single board, with everything residing on the bottom; much easier to assemble. They also reworked many components to use single chips, and simplified the CD drive to use less components too.

For example they housed the two Hitachi chips in a single chip, combined the 68k + sound chip into a single unit with much less pins, and removed the third chip entirely (made it internal to the drive controller), removed the digital audio muxer chip (one of the onboard microcontrollers handled it), etc.

It is by no means comparable to how simple the Playstation was, yes. But that does not mean that they didn't work on simplifying parts to make the unit cheaper to produce.

>>3591590
>Name five Saturn ports that were better than the PS1

Every Capcom game. Dead or Alive. Every shmup except Donpachi.

>or arcade versions

Arcade hardware cost 10 to 50 times more than a Saturn, the point there was to get the best conversations possible.
Besides, how many PSX games looked better than arcade versions, other than a few games that also used the same hardware in the arcade (Tekken is the only notable one I can think of)? The games ported from different hardware most of the time ended up looking like ass, see all CPS2 or STV ports.

File: 49f1b5f5808789cccc95dc0e9fe1db15[1].jpg (9KB, 321x320px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 321x320px

>>3592512
>Every shmup except Donpachi

DoDonPachi ps1 better
Strikers 1945 II ps1 port better than saturn port
RayStorm ps1 port better than saturn port
In The Hunt ps1 port better than saturn port
Sonic Wings ps1 port better than saturn port
and ps1 It has a large shmups library than saturn

>>3592512
>Dead or Alive
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>3592503
>they housed the two Hitachi chips in a single chip

I don't ever recall seeing such a model, do you have pictures of its motherboard? That's quite interesting.

I am aware of the integration of components onto a single board, but that was less a cost reduction than simply reducing the absolute insanity of the launch models.

Saturn is a cancer on the body of Sega.

>>3592587
>I don't ever recall seeing such a model,

1998 models used that.
1997 models also removed the SH1 and the 68k as separate chips.

>>3592623

That'd be the Master System. Shit catalogue. Shit sound. Shit fanbase of australians and britbongs.

Saturn is a cult machine.

File: thumb[1].jpg (7KB, 189x250px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 189x250px

>>3592715
master system does not kill the Sega but saturn did this. so saturn is a cancer

>>3592835
Sega was still making a profit when the Saturn was around.

It was the Dreamcast when they fell massively into the red.

>>3592848
>still making a profit when the Saturn was around
Arcades and other but not saturn.
>It was the Dreamcast when they fell massively into the red
It is time to return it's time to return credits for the saturn

>>3589458
TL;DR of Sega's failures is pretty much "Sega of Japan was run by fucking idiots."

>>3592848
>Sega was still making a profit when the Saturn was around.

Sega was losing $ 100 per each sold Saturn so that it is impossible

>there are unironic Saturn shills on the /vr/ board

Shit, this is really entertaining.

>>3592871
>Sega was losing $ 100 per each sold Saturn so that it is impossible

That was the PS2 and the Xbox.

With the Saturn they were having their best software sales ever, so they more than made up for the hardware cost.

>>3592868
>Arcades and other but not saturn.

Their most successful arcade system was launched after the Saturn.

>It is time to return it's time to return credits for the Saturn

Or more like they dropped their most popular platform (in japan) completely, in favour of a system for which they cannot get any software sales at all due to the ease of piracy.

>>3592871
Sega were losing a LOT more than $100 per Saturn after all the price drops

>>3592891
Microsoft were losing a fortune per Xbox, but they had a lot of money

>>3592892
>Sega were losing a LOT more than $100 per Saturn after all the price drops

source: my ass

>>3592892
>Microsoft were losing a fortune per Xbox, but they had a lot of money

Not a fortune, it was confirmed to be $100 per Xbox.

And yeah, they took that on purpose so they could build a user base. It was an investment; and thanks to it they went from newcomer to one of the top console companies today.

>>3592891
>With the Saturn they were having their best software sales ever

I forgot how many bestseller games saturn has?

>>3592915
VF2 sold 1.4 million.

Sega Rally, Nights, Super Robot Taisen, Sakura Taisen 1-2, Grandia, Virtua Cop, Fighters Megamix, Gundam, Virtual-on, Evangelion, Fighting Vipers, all of those sold between 300-600k.

>>3592503
Rockman X4, Rockman X3, Rockman 8, Metal Slug, etc..

>>3592930
compared to that, DC had only 7 titles that sold between 300-450k, and 36 which sold over 100k. And no titles that reached 500k.

>>3592930
it's not a very good sales

>>3592939
Significantly better than the Dreamcast sales.

File: orly[1].jpg (21KB, 413x384px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 413x384px

>>3592935
Dreamcast games that have sold or shipped at least one million copies

Sonic Adventure 2.5 million
Soulcalibur 1.3 million
Crazy Taxi 1.225 million
Shenmue 1.2 million
Resident Evil Code:
Veronica 1.14 million
NFL 2K 1.13 million
NFL 2K1 1.01 million

>>3592941
dreamcast was not unprofitable in production
saturn was

>>3592901
>it was confirmed to be $100 per Xbox.

This is almost certainly an exaggeration by Microsoft based on what is probably cherry-picked data (for example, choosing one obscure part of the world where the Xbox hardware was blatantly overpriced) or an overly optimistic projection. The Xbox used extremely expensive hardware components by console standards.

Furthermore, it's very well known that Nvidia screwed Microsoft out of cheap royalty rates - they had a court case on it after all.

If Microsoft truly was only losing $100 per Xbox, how is the 4 billion dollar loss incurred by Microsoft on the original Xbox explainable? At most, under the $100 loss-per-console, they wouldn't have lost more than $2.5 billion, and that's if you assume they sold no software whatsoever.

>>3592895
Sega admitted they were losing money on Saturn from Day 1, as they did on the Genesis. The razor-and-blades model was close to Sega's heart after all.

However, Sega marched in lock-step with PS1 price drops, even though the PS1 was getting cheaper to manufacture faster than the Saturn was. Saturn would be PS1 price + $100.

And then came a certain point when Sega dropped the Saturn price to MATCH the PS1. So you could easily imagine in that scenario that Sega was losing AT LEAST $100 on the Saturn. It's simple logic,

>>3592941
>>3592942

>>3592945
>dreamcast was not unprofitable in production

If they sold it for $250 as originally planned, it would've been profitable. But they undersell it to make it more popular, so it was unprofitable.

>>3592942
Not sure what your source on that is, according to Famitsu Sonic Adventure sold 438k for the Dreamcast.

>>3592968
>However, Sega marched in lock-step with PS1 price drops, even though the PS1 was getting cheaper to manufacture faster than the Saturn was. Saturn would be PS1 price + $100.
>And then came a certain point when Sega dropped the Saturn price to MATCH the PS1. So you could easily imagine in that scenario that Sega was losing AT LEAST $100 on the Saturn. It's simple logic

You are assuming that the reduction in the price of the manufacturing reflected on the sale price by the same amount.

It does not.
For example:
- as they ramped up production, they could afford better deals, that reduce the per-unit price of each component
- the reduction in the sale price may not be directly proportional to the manufacturing cost. They may have increased their losses by dropping prices despite the manufacturing cost not yet becoming cheaper, in order to more aggressively price the console and win market share.
- the opposite may also be true, it is possible that both consoles have already been made so cheap to manufacture that they weren't losing any money on their sales. More likely for Sony, but not impossible for Sega either, since they kept their price the same but still kept reducing board complexity for 2 years.
- they may have had surplus stock of parts which they had to get rid of.

Without having proper figures for the manufacturing cost, it is impossible to tell how much they lost and with what margin they were manufacturing the console.

>>3593067
>Not sure what your sourc
vgsales
vgchartz
wikipedia
gamasutra

>>3593067
How do you know it wouldhave sold as many units if it were priced at $250?

You're assuming it'd have had as many sales as when it had the price of $200..

>>3593102
>Without having proper figures for the manufacturing cost, it is impossible to tell how much they lost and with what margin they were manufacturing the console.

Yes, but it's possible to make educated guesses and common sense points to enormous losses. It was claimed that even Sony were making (small) losses on PS1 hardware until like ~1999 due to their aggressive price cutting.

We know that PS1 hardware cost a lot less to manufacture than Saturn hardware even at launch, and we know that Sony were more efficient at bringing down the cost. We also know that Sega eventually started price-matching Sony despite the large manufacturing cost gulf.

Although it's impossible without the figures to put an exact number on how much money Sega lost with each Saturn, it's reasonable to say based on what we know that "it was most likely an unsustainable large number".

It's official, Sonyggers are cancer no matter what board they end up in.

>>3593067
>Famitsu
>Worldwide

>>3589458
Yes, he our guy.

Oh yes of course he is our guy, shalom!