Keyboard vs Controllers for Doom. Which one does /v/ agree w

>>3581367
Keyboard and mouse

>>3581367
I'm with Mike. Keyboard and mouse always

>>3581367
>He says that keyboards are for work and controllers are for playing games
Also this is the stupidest reason I've ever heard for preferring a controller.

>>3581381
This

personally i'm able to get more precision in FPS games with a keyboard and mouse than with a controller

>>3581367
I don't care what some youtube cucks say.
Both controller and KB+M are fine if you playing vanilla-ish (no look up/down).
If you are playing sourceport/mod with up/down view then KB+M all the way.

Controller is ok for Doom as there is no Y aiming

Pads are definitely comfier to play games with. On a KB you have to hunch over it and over time your elbows and wrists will start to ache.

James is a pleb. He doesn't play modern games outside of the videos. He has a wife and child, and spends all his free time on video production. He is more interested in watching movies.

Ignore his opinions.

>>3581403

This.

most people talking about Doom with mouse are kids who play Source mods.

James is legit, Mike is a poser.

>>3581428
most people talking about Doom are people who played doom back in '93/'94.
On a PC.
With a keyboard.
Also Romero himself played Doom with mouse.

>>3581438
>With a keyboard.

Rignt.
Then why do they say there is any difference between playing with a gamepad? As already stated, original Doom (and Doom II) had no mouse aiming. You could play Doom with a PC gamepad, or the keyboard, and it'd be the same.

>Also Romero himself played Doom with mouse.
And?

>>3581381
Id say it's good enough for him since he probably is on the computer most of the time doing work or editing videos. Its all a matter of preference in the end.

>>3581439
>And?
And Dooms 1 & 2 supported mice.

>>3581439
Oh. You're that one lil' bitch. okay then.

>>3581448
Maybe he shouldn't use a monitor since he looks at one all the time while editing videos.

>>3581456
Monitors are for work, TVs are for play.

File: 44319.jpg (183KB, 1024x801px) Image search: [Google]

183KB, 1024x801px

>>3581367
>/v/

>>3581439
>original Doom (and Doom II) had no mouse aiming
You are in the wrong here.

>>3581505
>getting so agitated

Some games are better with a controller and some games are better with mouse and keyboard. I do find fps games more immersive when im sitting close to the screen and cant see anything around me. I have been playing duke nukem on my ps4 lately and its still pretty fun with a controller. I get my ass kicked sometimes though and some dudes I swear have to be using a keyboard and mouse cause they never miss.

>>3581534
That's not actually true because mouse and keyboard are inherently more precise than any controller will ever be. So, yeah, controllers may be better for certain games, but only because M&K don't have the right support for the superior controls. A good mouse and keyboard both cost hundreds of dollars, whereas there's no controller that isn't either a cheap mass produced piece of plastic or a third party shoddy piece of plastic that's even more prone to breaking.

>>3581367
I haven't watched the video in a long while, but I'd bet the first time James played Doom was either snes or n64, which would explain why he likes the controller more; he learned it that way first, then came up with some hokey response as to why

>>3581439
>I know, I was there!
Next, you're going to claim that Romero had some hacked build that had mouse support

>>3581367
keyboard & mouse on PC and controller for consoles

it always felt weird for me to use a keyboard & mouse on consoles

>>3581507

He's right though, you couldn't use the mouse to aim (Y axis).

>>3581367
keyboard and mouse
it allows for advanced footwork and better aiming

using a mouse is actually recommended in the original instruction booklet

>>3581367
I want to punch that face.

>>3582003
You should not be violent toward the autistic, anon.

>>3581367
When I was a kid, I used to play Doom and Wolfenstein 3D with a controller that was pretty much the SNES controller. It was pretty good. Keep in mind that, back then, WASD wasn't really a thing, and the mouse wasn't always reliable for games back then.

With Quake, though, a keyboard and mouse is clearly superior.

>>3581367
thank you based mike.

>>3581367
I rekt his ass with M&K

>>3581367
I would have dismissed this as casual years ago, but nowdays I feel my wrist and elbow tired after a day working, and need lots of stretching on my wrist and arm. So doing even more repetitive mouse movements on my free time is an awful idea. I don't have this problem with Dual Shock controllers or handhelds (with proper grips).

Then again, I can't stand playing FPS without kb+mouse, so I just stopped playing FPS altogether. (The new Duke3D episode on the latest steam release would've a dream come true 5 years ago, but now I've grown so distant to FPS games that I care very little for it)

File: fragchuck.jpg (28KB, 500x375px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 500x375px

>>3581367
Gamepad is acceptable, providing the controls are set up right.

Keyboard + Mouse is better and how it was originally played.

My personal favorite is an analog stick in my left hand, and my mouse in the right hand.

>>3581381
In one way I agree, in that a gamepad (at least a modern one) is more ergonomic and designed for games.
You can use a keyboard, of course, but my laptop has a shitty keyboard which really isn't that comfortable and has kind of janky keys.

>>3581398
Analog sticks are not nearly as fast and precise for aiming, no.

>>3581439
>original Doom (and Doom II) had no mouse aiming
Yes it did, Doom, as well as Wolfenstein 3D before it, was designed for you to play it with mouse-turning in mind, this was the optimal way in the eyes of the developers, they mention it in the manual. It had no vertical aiming, but the mouse was there.

Keyboard only and gamepads at the time were concessions, because few console ports supported a mouse (only the Playstation versions come to mind), and not all computers had a compatible mouse for Wolf3D and Doom when they came out.

>>3581831
You used the mouse to turn, and in extension, aim horizontally.

The original .exe would also allow for you to use a mouse for movement.

>>3582094
Doom and Wolf3D actually play pretty well with a decent enough gamepad.

The BFG Edition port, while flawed, had a pretty good control scheme, dpad for weapon selection (one direction each per ammunition type), left stick moving, right stick turning, etc.

Likewise, the old 32X port of Doom, while flawed even more, played quite decently on a 6 button pad.

File: oq0B2DZ.jpg (70KB, 960x717px) Image search: [Google]

70KB, 960x717px

>>3582260
>>3582271

>aim horizontally

Doom has auto-aim, you can't aim if there isn't Y axis.

Mouse-turning, okay, I don't see how that makes any difference with using left/right arrows or a gamepad though.

I'm all for KB+M for FPS, but in the case of older ones like Doom, nah.

>>3582296
>I don't see how that makes any difference with using left/right arrows or a gamepad though
Because mouse is much faster and is variable, while turning with the keyboard or dpad is literally only one speed and much slower.

>Doom has auto-aim, you can't aim if there isn't Y axis.
Auto-aim doesn't work for switches though.

File: latest.jpg (32KB, 400x398px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 400x398px

>>3581448
This is /vr/, personal preference is irrelevant.

>/v/

GET
OUT

>>3581367
Who the fuck uses a controller for Doom?

kbm
wtf is work

>>3582310
Joysticks are not switches

>>3581580
>A good mouse and keyboard both cost hundreds of dollars

You sound like one of those idiots who pay $300 for a keyboard.

>>3583026
And? We're talking turning with a keyboard vs. with a mouse.

>>3581367
I'm fine with either since there is no Y axis in Doom.

>>3583026
>>3583541
He's talking about switches in levels, static features of the map.

Auto-aim will only work on enemies (and I think barrels), it wont detect shootable switches.

In the stock levels this is generally not an issue, but some levelsets have shootable switches tucked away in tight or hard to see corners, and being able to finely turn yourself just right to shoot a switch can be necessary.

>>3581367

Keyboard and mouse all the way, although. The XBLA (and probably later console ports) made controllers infinitely more usable by doing a clever trick I wish more console shooters would use.

Holding the left trigger on the controller not only made your character run, it also increased aiming sensitivity so you could hold it for quick pot shots or to turn around and release it for more precision aiming. I've been trying to find a source port that does this, but it doesn't seem to be a thing sadly. Would someone be willing to add something like this to (G)Zdoom or something?

File: Rtaex.gif (127KB, 1200x891px) Image search: [Google]

127KB, 1200x891px

>>3581381
That's braindead. Controllers are designed for ARCADE games, if we stuck to controllers only, more complex genres like strategy games, RPGs, simulators (including flight sims) and adventure games would have never became a thing.

Like, pic related - if Rolfe can tell me how to fit this control setup on a controller (without pausing submenus), I will write down all my money in a will to Cinemassacre, then shoot myself.

Dude may be a good entertainer if you like this stuff, but he doesn't seem to actually know much about games.

>>3581428
Except the reason Doom has vertical autoaim is purely because mice weren't very popular back then, so id decded on this. I've never seen anyone say that playing Duke Nukem or Quake with full mouselook is 'heresy' or some BS, even though both used vertical autoaim by default.

Like, sure, it makes no sense for e.g Wolf3D because Z-Axis never comes into play, but Doom is a fully 3D game - and mouselook makes the game harder if anything (since it disables a kind of autoaim).

>>3583762

If you watch the video, James says he's aware that many people prefer KB+M for FPSs, and that this is just his preference - besides, Doom isn't a strategy game or a simulator, and doesn't have Y axis. People might argue about using the mouse makes turning left and right faster or more precise, but everyone I knew back in the day played Doom on their 486s using just the keyboard arrows to move, don't really remember people using the mouse on it, but I do remember playing adventure games like Monkey island with the mouse.

>>3583768

Well to be fair, Duke Nukem and Quake had level design that encouraged vertical mouse look. Doom's levels don't require vertical aim, and in some case would be a hindrance for the most part.

If you aren't doing Keyboard+Mouse for doom, I don't know how you're doing it.

Especially if it's DoomRPG+RL Arsenal or some other weapon mod that has an alt-fire.

>>3583795
Mouse
>Fire: Left Mouse Button
>AltFire: Forward Thumb Mouse Button
>Reload: Rear Thumb Mouse Button
>Zoom/ADS: Click Mouse Wheel
>Jumping: Left Mouse Button
>Previous or next weapon: Scrollwheel

'Fragchuck'
>Moving: 'Left' Analog Stick
>Crouch Toggle: Click analog stick
>Use: Button below and to the left of analog stick.
>Map: Button straight above it
>Various quick buttons (flashlights, grenade button, when applicable) One of the three shoulder buttons.
>Select Items: Left and Right on DPad
>Use Item: Down on DPad
>Drop Item: Up on Dpad

I like both.

Some things arguably play better with k/m. Things like fps/tps take advantage of faster/more precise turning/aiming.
Things like rpgs/strategy take advantage of the large amounts of buttons.

Some things play better with a controller of some sort.
Things like flight sims are best with a flight stick.
Fighting games, arcade stick.
Breakout style, a trackball.
2d Platformers, dpad controller.
Racing, steering wheel.

For doom, id say k/m is best. Although some people back in the day played shit like wolf3d/doom with just a keyboard, so using a controller can simulate that a bit.

I also get where james is coming from when he says keyboard is work and controller is play. I did data entry work for a while right out of high school and that is when i got back into consile gaming. I didnt really think about it at the time, but the last thing i wanted to do after spending 8-12 hours typing at a computer was to sit up at a computer to play a game, so sitting back with a controller was welcome.

>>3581502
Why is stick in wrong place?

i prefer the way up and coming youtuber "Frenchpet" plays.

>>3583929
I probably would prefer the stick and Dpad switching places, but other than that, analog movement + mouselook is a good idea I think.

>>3583907
>but the last thing i wanted to do after spending 8-12 hours typing at a computer was to sit up at a computer to play a game, so sitting back with a controller was welcome.
That's why I frequently look to use a gamepad or chuck + mouse and lean back from my laptop at a comfortable place.

File: a better life.jpg (72KB, 400x300px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 400x300px

>>3583972
>not chillaxin' with a board on your lap

>>3581367
James is a retard. He thinks keyboards suck for video games and that Sega never made a good game. I wanna like the guy but he's so, so awful at video games and he has the worst opinions I've ever heard. The worst thing is people actually think this guy is an expert on video games or something.

>>3584021
It still involves a keyboard.

The data entry job i had was hours and hours of typing, its literally constant typing for hours, outside of whatever tiny breaks you give your hands. But that would drop your hourly average, so you cant do that too much or youd get wrote up.

After that you dont want to sit your hands like that for another couple hours playing a game.

>>3584043
RSI? file for worker's comp

>>3584029
>He thinks keyboards suck for video games

citation needed. He never said anything of the sort on the video from OP's pic, just that he prefers pads to keyboard as a personal choice.

>and that Sega never made a good game

Citation needed again, I'm pretty sure he praised many Sega (as in, 1st party Sega) games.

>>3584021
I've done that, but I still prefer something ergonomic and gamepad-like in my left hand over an entire keyboard in my lap. Pressing down the WASD keys just doesn't feel as good to me as an analog does, not anymore.
At least for shooters and stuff.

File: 1454213559242.webm (451KB, 480x480px) Image search: [Google]

451KB, 480x480px

>>3581367
He said he associates M&KB with work, that's the reason he prefers controllers. He spends all day working with the mouse and keyboard so when he wants to relax he uses a controller. It's his personal preference, not an absolute answer.

>>3581367
depends on the game is the only good answer

>>3581367
you actually give a shit what those megafaggots think?

holy fucking pathetic batman. go casual up your ass somewhere else.

>>3584237
You obviously are too reasonable to be on the fourchans.

>>3584240
This.

isn't that the guy who has aids and watches his wife fuck black studs?

>>3584268
Hasn't this meme run it's course?

>>3584237
He works on a Mac because it has no gaems.

keyboard and mouse but u have to make sure you keyboard don't stick and you mouse work

>>3583017
Played the xbox version with a friend a while back. Controllers worked surprisingly well to the point where I'm indifferent with what I'm using.

>>3584334
I think early console ports and control sensibilities gives people the impression that a game like Doom can't be played with a gamepad, when it actually can if it has enough buttons and is configured right.

>>3584347
Isn't doom64 considered a good game? I mean if it's got a joystick and some trigger buttons it should be fine.

>>3584363

Doom 64 is pretty good and it's its own game, not a port of the original Doom.

Is there even a point for using KB/M in Doom? It doesn't require pinpoint accuracy so there's not much benefit unless you use freelook like a faggot.

>>3584363
Well, Doom has no vertical aiming/looking, so the single analog stick can easily work well for turning.

And while the N64 analog stick is kind of shoddy in that it wears itself down by use (that white powdery residue you see in the bottom of them is the plastic stick grinding itself away against the insides), the sticks are actually *quite* precise and fine in their control while they're still new, without flopping about all loose and lacking sensitivity. If you've ever played Goldeneye 64 with a brand new one, the kind of precise and careful aiming you can do is actually quite good.

A company is coming out with a replacement analog stick for the N64 controller, which is made out of solid steel, so this means the stick would effectively never wear down as you use it, thus retaining it's high precision and tightness.

>>3584585
Mouseturning is OG, also it's fast and feels more fluid.

>>3584296

mac is supposed to be usable out of the box so it appeals to users who don't know shit about computers. having to configure your computer goes against the just works philosophy and that's a good thing if you only use it to work like james

>>3581367
I would play doom with a controller if I had a copy of it for a console instead of only on PC. It's not a fucking complicated game guys, it was meant to be played at 15fps with arrow keys. A D-Pad would do the job just fine.

>>3584268
Yes.

>>3585096
>it was meant to be played at 15fps with arrow keys
If you were on a 386 with no mouse.

>>3581428
>most people talking about Doom with mouse are kids who play Source mods.
Which is why whoever made the fucking attract screen demos was a fucking kid who played source mods. Oh wait.
Go fuck yourself.

Also did you mean source ports? Because Source mods is saying mods for the Source engine made by Valve. Which is to say, basically no one plays Doom using Source mods.

>>3581580
>A good mouse and keyboard both cost hundreds of dollars
That's not even remotely close to true.
Both can be had for around 20 bucks. The best keyboards, can get up to 80-100 for mechanicals. The best mice, generally not more than sixty if that even. For older mice even one of the best mice ever was like 25-30 bucks and still to this day has one of the best sensors available.

>>3581580
I got my IBM Model M for free at the computer recycling place, and got my WMO 1.1 for $3

No one used keyboard and mouse when doom came out. I only ever saw people use keyboard only or a joystick. People only learned the keyboard and mouse skill with quake.

love how everyone just ignores straight afterwards him saying 'oh btw kboard and mouse is still way better' or something to that effect. But of course consolefags don't include that part lmao. pathetic.

>>3585541
Or when he explains that he doesn't want to use KB+M because he gets tired of sitting at a computer for most of the day editing videos.

But people got to purposely take shit out of context for "reasons" I guess.

>>3585540
>No one used keyboard and mouse when doom came out.
Except you know, the devs, and lots of people with a compatible mouse.

>>3585631
i seem to remember mouse being pretty pointless because say an enemy is on a higher up platform, your bullets just hit them anyway.

>>3585642
Nah, keyboard turns at absolute speeds (slow), while a mouse can allow you to turn at any speed you want, and with a lot more precision.

It's not so much for aiming as it is for movement.

You could also set the mouse to make you move forward and back by moving the mouse those ways, though I feel that kind of play fits Wolfenstein 3D better.

>>3581367
K&M is the objective patrician way for old computer games

I respect his opinion, but he's fucking wrong

>>3584767
I'm going to need 4 controllers with that function and then I finally get to play mario party.

>>3585732
lol, the stuff little kids say sometimes. Doom was specifically designed with keyboard use and no mouse in mind. You could use a mouse with it, but it wasn't the "patrician" way of doing it. Literally a SNES controller was better. While for competitive gaming a keyboard and mouse are the only option, you shouldn't need that type of accuracy for a mainstream single player game.

>>3585904
I imagine Doom's later levels on keyboard being just as balanced and fair as KB/M.

File: 2540731-doom+settings.jpg (89KB, 658x445px) Image search: [Google]

89KB, 658x445px

>>3585893
Sounds like a plan.

>>3585904
>Doom was specifically designed with keyboard use and no mouse in mind
Which is why it shipped with mouseturning and was explicitly played and playtested with a mouse by the devs, many of the demos clearly showing the use of a mouse for turning.
The options screen shows the slider for sensitivity.

>You could use a mouse with it, but it wasn't the "patrician" way of doing it.
That sounds like a bunch of twaddle. No matter how you look at it, mouse turning was intended as a possible way to play the original game.

>you shouldn't need that type of accuracy for a mainstream single player game
If it feels better to use and is true to the original game, why not use it?

>>3585928
I don't disagree, I'm talking about his claim of "objective patrician way".

>>3584794
As a tech, I can confirm that "it just works" is total horseshit.

>>3584296
No.

Its probably what he learned editing and shit on so he sticks with it. He's not very tech savvy, so why change what isnt broken. He doesnt play games anyway.

Mike didnt have a pc for a long time either. Only got one a few years ago.

>>3584585
They people crying that you need a mouse in doom are probably people that only played brutal doom, since that adds in pinpoint aiming.

I never would have associated James with being a mac-using faggot.

>>3585953
John Romero is also a Macfag

>>3585603
I doubt the people arguing even watched the video.

Its just like the ghostbusters thing. People just see a white male nerd say he doesnt want to watch it and tears him apart without watching the vid.

File: amy_shrek.png (979KB, 634x953px) Image search: [Google]

979KB, 634x953px

>>3581367
I cant stand KBM. I'm awful with it. On top of being a lefty. But for DOOM it's KBM all the way. There is only a few buttons you need. And the mouse sensitivity is super fast. No way you'd be able to use a controller that fast.

>>3585631
Dude, Doom sold like hotcakes.

Sure, the devs wouldve played with a mouse because they work with computers all the time and had high end machines with all the bells and whistles.

Not everyone that had the game had a mouse.

Devs made it playable with a mouse because they wanted mass appeal.

>>3585961
Yes, so it's intended to be played both ways, with kb+m being ideal.

>>3585965
..... no.

It's meant to be played both ways.... period.

>>3581367
james is a faggot retard

>>3581416
this

>>3585956
Doom was developed on NeXTStep computers, which I think were like OSX or something.

>>3585945
Calm down, dude. It was a joke.
There's no need to insult James and his technical proficiency just because he uses a Mac.

>>3581367
>theres a thing about this game
>you always hit switches but you don't know what they do

The fact that they said this on E2M1, a very straightforward level, kinda disturbs me.

>>3586101
They're very much 'casual' gamers.

>>3583768
>but doom is a fully 3d game

Except it's not.

>>3586106
Well it's not really rendered 3D, but the space of the game is three dimensional, unlike a sidescroller or top-down game

>>3584585
Eh, mouseturning is faster than using keyboard to turn, allowing for much better reaction times, and IMO, overall feels better. The game is indeed perfectly playable without a mouse (provided you stick to the iwads and vanilla/boom maps), but nowadays, not many people see a point in restricting themselves that way outside of for the sake of restricting themselves.

>>3586110
Nope. Original Doom has no real concept of a vertical axis. It's more like a top-down game rendered in 3D

>>3586123

I want this meme to die.

>>3586142
It's not a meme, it's literally how the game works. There is nowhere in Doom, nowhere at all, where you can go over AND under something. No floating platforms, no bridges, nothing like that. Why? Because the engine is completely incapable of it.

Also the fact that you can shoot enemies miles above you even when pointing at the space below them. Any Z-axis shit you see is purely in the modern engine ports.

>>3586123
It kind of does though, given that you can fall. Enemies can fall.

Hell you might even accelerate as you fall (can't remember exactly)

>>3586151
That does not make it a game without a vertical axis, especially given the different height variations in levels and it being a crucial point in enemy placement. You don't instantly hit enemies no matter the height, if they are too far up on the Z-axis, they won't hit.

Just because you saw it in a popular Youtube video doesn't mean it's true.

>>3581502
Is that actually any good?

>>3581502
That half controller looks like it'd be awkward to use

>>3585979
No one played DOOM with a controller until recent years. You know how much of a pain setting up controllers was back then?

>>3586264
They did on doom64

>>3586269
I rest my case

File: chuck_side.jpg (32KB, 800x800px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 800x800px

>>3586243
I think for the PS4 it kind of has to, since it has to have a compatible touch-pad like the DS4

The same concept for the PS3 (and PC), looks like this. Personally, I think it's quite comfy, and I like having mouselook+analog movement for games (though it's not a perfect product).
I've never used a PS4, so I have no idea of that setup is clumsy or awkward for most games (like if the touch pad is difficult to handle in this config, or if it's oddly balanced), but the idea of half a gamepad in your off-hand does make sense and it does work.

>>3586264
>>3586309
>SNES Doom (though this wasn't a very good port)
>Doom 64 (it's own game)
>Playstation Doom (including Final Doom)
>GBA Doom (unit is a gamepad)

>computers are for work

only if youre a faggot pencil-pusher (key typer)

>>3586985
I always wanted to craft a fighting setup with something like that.
Something like a Nun-chuck + a six button controller interface.
Years of destroying d-pads with fighting vidya and no arcade in sight have forced me to use analog.

An arcade stick I can adapt to, but I can never fight with a pad again.

Keyboard and mouse, objectively without question. James was just primarily raised on consoles so that he's used to playing with a pad. If he was a well rounded player that's into both PC and consoles he'd understand why kbm works best for some games (strategy, FPS) and controllers for others (platformers).

And no, being an editor doesn't excuse him. I edit video a lot, even done it for a living, and if a game is designed for kbm, I play with the goddamn keyboard and mouse.

>>3586080
OSX didn't exist in 1993 dumbfuck, and it's related to macs because NEXT computers was Steve Jobs project after Apple fired him.

Goddamn this thread is crawling with underage niggers

Then how does he text?

>Fuckin destroyed!

>>3584296
He works on a mac because that's what video editors used in the 2000s back when Final Cut was the dominant video editing software of choice even in some Hollywood studios

Now not anymore. Since Apple castrated Final Cut with FCPX, Adobe has taken over professional video post production while Hollywood has gone back to using Avid Media Composer, and occasionally Adobe Premiere (most recently Adobe made some headlines as Deadpool was edited with Premiere). As a result more and more production companies and places that do video work ask you to be either Mac or Windows proficient, preferably the later since it's easier to integrate into the companies' technological ecosystem or whatever you call it than having that one employee who needs his precious Mac to use Apple's specific software and to do specialized work from everyone else.

>>3587167
Mike = Keyboard and Mouse

>>3587169
Oh right, that's how it was, I remembered it wrong, thanks friendo

I agree with the angriest gamer I've ever heard.

Though the best way to play Wolf3D is obviouslt KB+M, a SNES-like controller or PS-like controller will play it quite well, in my opinion.

Gamepads kinda fit the arcadey feel of the game.

FPSes in general suck with controller
Instead of controlling the position directly as you do with a mouse, you practically only control the derivative which just feels too slow and unnatural for me
So I never quite understood why FPS on console is even still a thing nowadays, heck I even hated using the bow with analog stick in Zelda

>>3587521
Consoles is a convenient way for an average Joe to play videogames, and it functions reasonably. It's cheaper and easier too than building or buying a computer, which is more mass appeal.
It's not the best way to play all games, but it works. The standardization makes for better compatibility in general.

Gamepads just ended up working well enough, but I think it would be worthwhile if there was an added standard of a mouse + keyboard (or mouse + left-handed chuck) for FPS games, because it would make the games much more playable.

>>3587521
Also, console FPS controls improved markedly in the past decade.

>>3587550
>>3587552
Well yeah I'm aware of all that, and things like platformers and for the most part action adventures work well enough or even better with a controller no doubt, but I wouldn't want to buy a shooter nowadays for a console when the same game also exists as PC version

>>3581367
he says that keyboard is better but that he just wants to play using the controller right now because he's tired of using keyboards for the past 10 years of work.

think of it as a forklift worker coming home after a hard day and not wanting to play Forklift Simulator.

File: e1BCwgM.jpg (35KB, 500x434px) Image search: [Google]

35KB, 500x434px

>>3589028
>think of it as a forklift worker coming home after a hard day and not wanting to play Forklift Simulator.
Ab ins Gas mit dem Untermensch!

>>3586083
Not because of mac, because james sucks at technology.

>>3586264
Lol, if you were a pc gamer back then it wasnt that hard.

>>3586264
But anyways, its not about k/m vs controller, its about k/m vs just keyboard. Digital+analog(for turning) vs only digital.

It doesnt matter if no one used a controller back then, just using a keyboard plays the same as using a controller.

>>3586175
Well, yeah, they gotta be in the viewbox.

>>3587102
TIL game devs are faggot pencil pushers.

>>3582251
Back when I first got a PC I had brainstormed using something like what you are describing, a controller for my left hand and a mouse for my right, since I didn't think I'd like using the keyboard to move in fps games. Is pic related real? Do you have access to enough buttons to properly play a game at any given point in time?

>>3582260
Vanilla doom iirc was weird as fuck to play with a mouse because moving the mouse up and down caused you to walk forwards and backwards. Made using a mouse awkward because, unless you were moving the mouse perfectly horizontal, you would get some excess movement and made the controls imprecise. I never used a mouse on doom until stuff like zdoom came about

>>3589186
Nah, u wrong. Aint you been readin the tread?

Everyone used a mouse when it came out.

>>3589262

Most kids on here who pretend to have played Doom in 93 weren't even born yet, and most of them got into Doom through Source mods.

Everyone was playing doom with keyboard arrows. I'd imagine maybe a few neckbeards were playing with mouse but it was not the norm, everyone played it like they played Wolf3D, and it worked.

>>3589263
Are you telling me people lied about it?

Im not sure i believe that. People dont lie on the internet.

>>3589271

It's a lie that "everyone" played it that way, most people played it with just the keyboard. The mouse support was mostly a nice fancy thing but FPSs weren't really made for KB+M yet, that came with Quake.

>>3589275
Im shocked...

I feel so violated.

>>3589186
>moving the mouse up and down caused you to walk forwards and backwards
You could turn this off in setup and playing with a mouse worked great.

>>3589186
>Vanilla doom iirc was weird as fuck to play with a mouse because moving the mouse up and down caused you to walk forwards and backwards.
Yeah, that's called mouse movement, which was kind of a thing back then. Actually works quite good for Wolf3D in my opinion, given that everything is at a right angle and there is no vertical space. Can really do some fast and precise maneuvers with just a little bit of getting used to it.

But you could disable movement while still having turning.

>>3589262
Not everyone, because again, not everyone had a compatible mouse, but it was absolutely something people did if they had one, because there's really no reason not to.

>>3589263
>Everyone was playing doom with keyboard arrows.
lol

no

>>3589496

>lol

>no

You expect me to believe you're older than 20?

>>3589508
i don't expect anything from you, kid

>>3589275
Many Duke 3D players used mouse. Doom mouse usage caught on pretty fast actually and you can scan demos of old doom matches and many of them were using mice back in 94. The more casual players took longer.
I didn't use mouse until Quake 2 in 97. But yeah other people did. I ran into mousers in Duke3D in ladder competitions when I started doing that.

When I go back and play it with chocolate doom or in dosbox I use a mouse now myself because you're an idiot if you don't. The game difficulty at the highest levels basically demands it and if you're not, you're playing on lower difficulties.

>>3581381
He's either just sick of using keyboards after being at one all day for editing or writing his scripts or he hasn't played many PC games and isn't used to using one for games. Anyway I've heard dumber shit from people in real life like being able to mod a singleplayer game makes it worse.

>>3581734
>it always felt weird for me to use a keyboard & mouse on consoles

Probably because most games don't really account for them so you still gotta deal with shitty built in aim assist.

>>3581381
Eh, James is a born bred console player, his whole collection is around console titles, he's been raised in an idea that a video games need controllers, and a KB/M is something alien to him as a gamer

>>3589862

>Drrr adapting to other control schemes is hard. Everything needs to be like when I was a kid playing nintendo.

If you can only play one control method you are a retard.

>>3589867
I think he's just too old to learn something new.

File: gravii.jpg (332KB, 1778x1333px) Image search: [Google]

332KB, 1778x1333px

>>3581367
Gamepad!

Mouse/trackball combined with keyboard or joystick or whatever is god-tier controls, but doom didn't need it, and keyboard alone was kind of lame, and the default bindings left a awful taste in your mouth. it's the one last FPS where the gamepad edges out.

And with shoulder buttons, it becomes even more enough.

File: royalseal.jpg (462KB, 758x1050px) Image search: [Google]

462KB, 758x1050px

>>3581398
>>3581438
>>3581580
>>3581734
Looks like Carmack jumped ship, huh? Keyboard is all kinds of awkward, controllers can be fucking amazing.

>>3589921

Bull fucking shit. Unless he has Alzheimer's that's no excuse for a human.

>>3589862
>>3589867
>>3589921

He has more retro computers than you do.

Watch the video, he says he knows KB+M is optimal for FPSs, he just doesn't give that much of a fuck and explains why he's using a pad on the video. He never says playing doom with a pad is "better", but I guess nothing can satisfy your autistic bursts. Now go play some more Source mods and talk to your online peers about how much of a "hardcore retro gam3r" you are.

>>3589986
Damn, senpai, you seem real angry.

>>3590000

Not really I was actually sleepy, nice quads.

>>3589709

Right you're talking about a niche part of the population, I'm talking general public, "casuals" if you want. I started using mouse for Quake in 96, that's when it really caught up, why? Because it actually makes sense with the Y axis.

I don't really remember anyone using mice for Doom and Duke3D, of course I never went to competitions, but I had plenty of people, kids and adults, who liked video games, and they all played Doom with keyboard, even if they had mouse in their PCs. The majority, not every single one. Some guys here claim "everyone" was playing Doom with KB+M, that's wrong.

>>3589968
This, I'm 29 and never played any flight sim before, but I got into WarThunder quite easily about 2 years ago, also the obvious Pokémon Go wasn't hard to get used to either, and it was the first smart phone game I ever played

>>3581438
>>3589962
That Romero that "jumped ship".

Here in slavland, people who played FPS on keyboard only were called “tractor drivers” (because player moves and turns like a bulldozer). It was clearly caused by lack of peripherals on work/public computers, and free look shooters killed them (although some completed Quake that way).

Anyone who says that Doom was mouse-agnostic clearly haven't tried to play it on keyboard only.

File: 1477700669955.png (15KB, 186x292px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 186x292px

>>3590041
>I didn't see it so it was only used in competitive circles

KB&M is objectively superior for FPS, TPS and rail shooters.

Controllers are better for everything else.

>>3590447
Some company named Blizzard made a number of interesting games, check them out in your spare time.

>>3590447
You're right, SimCity 2000 is better suited for a gamepad.

>>3590447
>KB&M is objectively superior for FPS, TPS and rail shooters.
And simulators.
And strategy games.
And western RPGs.
And adventure games.
And 3D platformers.

>>3590418

>I wasn't alive back then so I'll post smug /a/ reaction images and shitpost like I'm /v/

>>3590474
And tank-control games

>>3590474
except driving simulators, where a wheel+pedals is better
and flight simulators, where a joystick/yoke is better
and other vehicle simulators, where analog controls are better

and it's only subjectively better for adventure games and 3D platformers, also depending on the game itself

File: retard.jpg (204KB, 383x341px) Image search: [Google]

204KB, 383x341px

>>3590474

>3D platformers
>KB+M

File: loli-rin.png (349KB, 477x530px) Image search: [Google]

349KB, 477x530px

>>3590646
My argument still stands, cakeboy, just because you didn't see it in your circle of friends doesn't mean it was purely a competitive thing.

>>3590752

Your argument is nil as you were unborn back then.

Most people played doom and its clones with keyboard arrow, I'm saying it was something only the competitive scene did, but it was certainly not a popular control scheme among most people. That sarted with Quake for the reasons I already stated.

Now please, go back
>>>/a/

>>3581367
>he says keyboards are for work

No, he says keyboards are what he uses for HIS work all day, so when it's time to play a game the last thing he wants to see is another keyboard.

File: 1448941081312.gif (51KB, 210x330px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 210x330px

>>3590757
>Your argument is nil as you were unborn back then.
>Now please, go back
Whatever makes you feel better, I guess.

>>3590396
This.

Ever tried playing Final Doom with keyboard only? Shit's not graceful, and pretty much nobody did, 99% of players can't turn/react fast enough.

It works in Doom and Doom 2 (on lower difficulties mostly), because they're actually pretty easy games (hell, Ultra-Violence isn't really that hard), short of Thy Flesh Consumed, which was designed to be hard.

Only dumb normies played Doom without a mouse out of choice, the exception being a few highly skilled speedrunners who do it today to challenge themselves.

>>3590396
You do realize you can bind keys for strafing, right?

>>3590980
Who talking about final doom? Everyone had a mouse in 96.

The discussion was always about vanilla doom.

>>3591008
The point is that the base game is easy enough that keyboard only doesn't stop you from playing the game, but that using a mouse is How The Developers Intended (tm) and how the original game is best played.

>>3590990
You do realize you can even bind it to the same keys with modifiers? You do realize numpad allows for even more control (including vertical aiming)? You do realize games even had “fast turn” and “slow turn” bindings?

Still, it's pain in the ass, just as fighting games on a keyboard is.

>>3591162
>just as fighting games on a keyboard is
Fighting games are THE WORST on a keyboard.

>>3591008
>vanilla doom

Final Doom is vanilla.

>>3581367
that argument in itself is laughable. If you are skilled in using one schema, and may spend 8 hours a day versing in that controller schema, why learn a second one if there is not a direct reason fpr the peripheral in the first place. Comtrollers are good, just the argument is dull.

>>3581381
he could've just said that using a mouse+kb on a couch is cumbersome and uncomfortable

>>3581381
and i think he's inadvertently making a point here. keyboards and mice were designed for work, controllers were designed for playing games

>>3591324
I want the concept of a gamer mouse and a left hand controller unit to be more widespread, I think it'd fix a lot of these problems.

A controller can be infinitely more ergonomic and suited for fast gameplay than most kinds of keyboard.

Of course, you also loose out on the other versatility of a keyboard like that (lots of buttons/keys, and fast typing)

Original: Keyboard only
Anything else: Keyboard & Mouse

>>3591391
You should try playing Doom with mouse turning, it feels really good.

File: American_McGee_Alice_cover.png (210KB, 300x377px) Image search: [Google]

210KB, 300x377px

>>3590727
Better than Mario 64, Crash Bandicoot, and Sanic Adventure.

mike = phd in math, 10 inch massive cock
AVGN = cuckold

Think I know who I'll listen to.

>>3591516

>Alice

Good art direction, etc.
Shit gameplay tbqhfamalam

>playing platformers/action 3rd person games with fucking mouse

Fucking /v/

>>3581367

Shooters were designed for the holy duo. Joysticks just led to shit like cover mechanics and recoil.

>>3591980
Recoil is better when you have a mouse because you using your arm to manipulate the mouse, to fight the recoil, makes sense and feels natural.

Of course, it's also at it's best when it's more subtle.

>>3591060
But thats wrong.

Original was always intended to be played both ways.

>>3591717
Where the fuck did you hear mike has a phd in math? Thats ridiculous. He went to art school for animation.

Ryan has a degree (i can imagine it is anything other than bachelors based on his apparent age and when screenwave was started) in cs though.

>>3592985
Maybe by PHD he means Pretty Huge Dick

>>3581367
I used to hate the fuck out of mike for no reason but he's steadily grown on me. One he's learned how to be on cam, his opinions have become more solid. On the subject of Doom, it will always be a mouse game for me but I do enjoy the novelty of playing it on a console once in a while.

>>3593672
>but I do enjoy the novelty of playing it on a console once in a while.
This.

For instance, the 32X port has surprisingly good controls for it's time.

i prefer the way up and coming youtuber "Frenchpet" plays.

>>3593963
Why do you keep posting this?

>>3593659
Oh, well... cant argue with that.

File: s-l1600.jpg (56KB, 1001x1001px) Image search: [Google]

56KB, 1001x1001px

Here's your controller bro

>>3598337
Doesn't look too bad.

Doom

ESDF - movement with strafing
JL - turning
A - run
Space - fire
I - interact

>>3599665
That's so clunky

>>3599665
What the fuuck dude

>>3591516
Stay retard.

File: meo.png (48KB, 800x600px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 800x600px

>>3599665
>Space - fire

>>3585959
>I cant stand KBM. I'm awful with it. On top of being a lefty.

If you're a lefty, use the numpad. Arrow keys are good too, but numpad is where it's at for lefties.

I honestly don't know why modern fps games don't ship with a left handed toggle. The WASD control scheme is completely centered around being right handed.

>not just using whatever you prefer because it's just a video game and really doesn't matter

People who argue "keyboard+mouse are superior so never use a controller" are idiots and it's same for the opposite. It's all about what you find most comfy and enjoyable.

Wouldn't James Avgn rather play Jamal's skin flute?

>>3601342
No shit, but that doesn't mean we still can't call someone who is severely handicapping themselves 'stupid.' Russian Quake players playing with the keyboard on their lap is preference, but all of them use K+BM because that decision is beyond it.

And before you say it, yes, limiting your ability in a game can in fact limit your enjoyability, and if you disagree you've never been good at a game.

>>3601383

>implying it ever matters
>implying being good at a game really matters

all that matters is you are having fun and enjoy playing that way

Caring how other people play a game is the most autistic shit related to video games more autistic than the mario 64 videos

>>3601383
That's funny, I recall reaaaaaaally enjoying my attempts at beating Tomb Raider 1 while BLINDFOLDED.

File: logitechwingmanwarrior2mn7.jpg (59KB, 502x481px) Image search: [Google]

59KB, 502x481px

>>3581367
>He says that keyboards are for work and controllers are for playing games
>>3582251

But neither of those have been made for playing **Doom**!

File: fragchuck box.jpg (92KB, 500x476px) Image search: [Google]

92KB, 500x476px

>>3589184
Yeah, it's real, it's a Splitfish Frachuck. It's a wireless device which uses one AA battery, and I'll have to say, it uses this battery incredibly efficiently because I've used it for almost a year and I have yet to change it.
Ergonomically, it fits my hand pretty decently, the top half of the shell has a lightly rubberized coating which helps give a solid grip, no slipping.

The analog stick itself is quite good, one of the best ones I've used actually, it's not too stiff, not too loose, it's precise and and smooth. It also feels good, it has a divot on the top, and it's coated in rubber, so you get a positive grip with good comfort, I've never had it slip. It can also be clicked (I use this for crouch toggle). It takes a bit of getting used to, but once you do, it feels really good, and it makes for really efficient movement.

It has two face-buttons, one which I use as a Use Key, it being right next to my thumb and is quick to press. This means I have to stop very briefly to use something sometimes, which I feel could probably be a disadvantage, but so far it hasn't been detrimental, as I have to get up close and hit a switch, or open a door and wait for it to open.
The second face button I use to view my map in Doom, it works, though I notice the spring or dome in it has gotten a bit of slack in it after this time.

It has three shoulder buttons, these are all just ok, a bit mushy, a bit clunky, but they work well enough, they're not good, they're not bad. I use the middle one to bind flashlights usually, and the bottom one to bind quick grenade throws.

It has a DPad on it, and this is probably the worst DPad I've ever used bar none, mushy and imprecise, it's the kind of DPad where if you press it in not just the right way, say, if you press right, but you press right slightly upwards, it can register as up.
I advise against using the DPad for any ingame action, it's too imprecise. I only use it for inventory actions, which it's barely good for.

>>3601894
>>3589184
It has a little wheel/dial next to the on/off switch, this is vestigial feature on the PC variant, it's meant for console ones so you can adjust your sensitivity.

Also, make sure you get the .PDF manuals for these things, because besides installing a driver, you also need to pair the chuck itself to the USB receiver, which the manual tells you.
If it's somehow acting up or not working correctly, it can be unpaired, and then paired up again.

The company also makes a companion mouse for these things, it features four buttons at the thumb area, like gamepad buttons, such as the four face buttons you'd get on a PS or XBox controller.
I didn't buy this, because I already had a mouse (though not an amazing one, I'll grant you), but I imagine if you found that the chuck itself didn't have enough buttons, then this mouse would give you four extra ones (or two extra ones, depending on what mouse you're used to, I have two thumb buttons on mine, I use the forward one for Alt-Fire and the rear one for Reload).

Overall, I think it's a 10/10 idea of a product, really great, though execution is like 7/10, it has a few drawbacks/quirks, though not enough to not make it useful or good.
If I could change anything, I'd add two more face buttons onto it, and then I'd change the absolutely awful DPad, because that's really the worst part of it.

Price was alright, I think I paid like $50-60, the shipping was free (which I can always appreciate).
Also, make sure you're actually buying the PC one, not the console one.

File: 39cf16e6.jpg (340KB, 1600x1200px) Image search: [Google]

340KB, 1600x1200px

>>3581367
The datahand

>>3584021
just sit on a couch with an armrest

>>3602687
Looking at that thing makes my eyes spin.

don't be a fucking pussy. keyboards and mice are the way to play computer games.