What would /vr/ games have been like if developers were able

>>3416329
Bug fixes and more "rom hack" style games like Lost Levels.

Also, extra lives as micro-transactions, like in arcades.

But they did.

They wouldn't had been retro games.

>>3416329
Completely shit.

Condor (later Blizzard North) had the idea while planning the first Diablo. They were literally thinking about implementing DLC's, thanks God they didn't and we could avoid the plague for some years more.

>>3416372
Exactly.

For instance take a look at Blood. It got several patches which include bug fixes, improvements, and even major gameplay changes. Then came a version with the final changes and with an extra episode with new enemies, by the same devs. And there was also the third party add-on, Cryptic Passage.

So if you were a Blood fan from the beginning, you needed to get the patches as they were released, especially if you played online. Then you needed OUWB, and there is no way you would have passed on Cryptic Passage add-on either. That's buying the game twice + add-on + keeping with patches along the way.

Duke Nukem 3D did it a bit better. When Atomic Edition came out, with bug fixes and extra episodes, you could either buy that, the full game with the new episode; or if you already owned the original version, you could buy the patch to the final version.

Post-launch patches for PC games was not uncommon at all.

>>3416590
Even console games got patched re-releases.
Think of Minestorm for the Vectrex.

>>3416329
as already mentioned, PC games got patches post-launch. I think I remember devs going as far as declaring them "FREE!". Probably because you had to buy updates to the Street Fighter II games.

>>3416572
I don't even see the problem, if it was small expansions to add onto the base game for cheap it wouldn't be an issue, it would probably have been better than Hellfire.

>>3416601
Yeah, Wolf3D was ported to the 3DO, and it was found that on one of the later levels the game would plain crash/freeze at the start, the level was compiled incorrectly, they recalled the game and printed a fixed run.

>>3416375
Non-sequitur tbhfam

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>>3416721
>>3416618
Greatest Hits versions of games also often have glitches fixed and in some cases revisions to core gameplay.

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I think it wouldn't be so shamelessly milked.

Video game budgets were still low. They were often made by teams under 50 people, in relatively short time periods. A $50 price tag was enough to cover the cost of the full game—and make new ones pretty quickly.

Today, the whole model has changed drastically. The budgets are now rivaling Hollywood movies. The $60 price tag is just a loss leader now: the game is supposed to make money through DLC, IAP, seasons—basically upselling; I guess the real "price" of today's games is much higher than $60. It's the same way as consoles have always been: sold with little to no margin, or even at a loss—to make money from game license cut.

So, answering your question: if DLC model was implemented, maybe the games would simply cost less. Given the competition was pretty heated between Nintendo and Genesis, the one who would underprice the opponent would surely gain an advantage.

They were doing that. They just had to be more subtle about it. You'll notice sequels came out much faster in the 80s and 90s, and they would update things between releases of games, like how early gyromites had a Famicom converter, or they would release different versions of street fighter, or how resident evil 1 and 2 got several releases with differences between versions, or how GTA London 1969 on playstation required disc swapping in GTA when loading. It just got to be more obvious when internet connections and internal hard drives became standard.

The alternative to post release patches is stuff like with Suikoden II, where the game is pretty glitchy, but there is no way to patch it without getting into emulator/mod chip territory, which is more of an interesting "look what we can do after the fact" than a genuine solution.

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>>3416329
ITT: People who are convinced this is an accurate depiction of all modern games and live in sour misery because of it.

Hold on, I'm gonna get some popcorn. These threads are always a comedy goldmine.

>>3416783
> how resident evil 1 and 2 got several releases with differences between versions

Resident Evil
Resident Evil: Director's Cut
Resident Evil: Director's Cut Dualshock Version

That's on PS1 alone. Then you had the Saturn version, which had some exclusive content. The PC version, which had some silly and shitty new weapons and costumes.

So, nowadays we get mini games as DLC. Like for instance, Bioshock Infinite got that wave based arena map fights called Clash In The Clouds.

But for Resident Evil 1 and 2, if you wanted that bonus battle mini game, you didn't just buy that battle mode, you had to re-buy the entire game.

I don't know how this is supposed to be any better.

>>3416783
This.

Back in the day, it was a common practice to make a new game based on the same engine, with similar art style and so on, since making a game didn't take too long. See, for example, Technos games. Or take Dragon Quest games—all had very similar look and feel, with some improvements from game to game.

All player requests/complaints like "add this, fix that" were often simply met with a sequel. For example, Street Fighter editions were in many ways like balance patches/bug fixes; Super Street Fighter II was like an expansion pack.

Today, few games really receive sequels this quickly. Every sequel takes a whole lot of production time and then is hyped with a huge marketing campaign. Then come DLC, seasons, and other stiff like spin-offs for mobile platforms.

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>>3416813
Also while we're talking about Capcom, let's not forget the plethora of SFII versions they pushed out the door. For some genres like fighters, DLC options for devs has made them so much better.

>>3416829
>>3416829
That picture is a troll image though, it mixes up regional versions, console ports and even the gba port.

Technically there were only 5 SF2 revisions, World Warrior, Champion Edition, Hyper Fighting, Super and Super Turbo.

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Even console games had updated revisions.

Revenge of Shinobi had a buttload of revisions

>>3416829
Street fighter hyper turbo?

>>3416847
>>3416852

lol Honestly, I barely looked at it. Just grabbed the first result off google. Funny now that I'm actually looking at it. Base point is the same though.

>>3416856
The Hd version should be there, and the regionals removed.

Capcom tends to make variants of their popular games, the RE series for example.

>>3416847
having to buy a game 5 times is still a lot.

>>3416874
Kinda, snes and Genesis merged Turbo and champion edition in ports. And not all systems got evry version of it.

Hyper Anniversary is great, I have that one. Lets you use previous versions of the characters in game with they way they worked.

GameFreak doses two with a extra third version with updates for Pokemon.

>>3416882
This two

Ugh

>>3416874
>>3416882
Yeah, the number of games isn't really important. It's more that it's better now that they can just release updates via patches and added content with DLC instead of buying a whole new boxed version of the game. I waited a long time for consoles to catch up to pcs on that front.

>>3416356
>Also, extra lives as micro-transactions, like in arcades.

I'm sure there were people trying to figure out how to implement this.

>>3416968
lol what? That's literally what arcades already were.

>>3416813
I don't know why you want to frame it in terms of better. Things were just different then. A big part of it could have been the rise of the resale aspect of video game stores. Adding extras at that point may have been more about generating additional sales than selling extra content. Games also dropped in price as time went on, so getting that dual shock or greatest hits copy of RE2 probably didn't set anyone back as much as RE2 cost on release. When you consider price decreases and manufacturing costs, it's not like the portion you were paying for Ex Battle was that far out of line with today's prices.

>>3416829
How come they put out so many revisions into the arcades?
Doesn't seem like a cash grab if the players pay the same for a match.

>>3417104
Gameplay revisions and new characters entice people to play more and keep putting their quarters in the SF machine in stead of the MK one.

>>3416829
For SF2 this was partially from user feedback, and to combat the bootlegs which added a ton of new features. Chun Li got her fireball because of that too.

However there is no excuse for something like SF4 or Marvel vs Capcom 3 to get multiple versions.

>>3417130
>However there is no excuse for something like SF4 or Marvel vs Capcom 3 to get multiple versions.

I think they were the tail end of doing separate major releases for fighting games outside of a game of the year edition or the like. Updating with new characters and dlc for patches works so much better.

>>3416808
>accurate depiction of all modern games

its a too spread practice that you can't know if a tittle by a up and coming developer will trap you, and with digital distribution taking away your right of resale, you're fucked

...unless you only buy 1yo titles, which is what i do, actually 3-4yo games is where my wallet resides, but i understand my stand wont change anything, i just do it to avoid being fooled myself, but i recognize that companies couldn't live if enough ppl did this, but then again they would stop with this fucketry and ppl would start buying early again.

i also do it for reasons of GPU, prices, and even piracy try-out before purchase, but thats not the point.. as even sequences of long time franchises by seasoned developers am still weary of buying early.

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>>3416356
>Also, extra lives as micro-transactions, like in arcades.

Thank heavens it didn't happen back then.

>>3416329
Doom got so many updates it became Doom 2 with the wrong IWAD.

>>3416874
>having to buy a game 5 times is still a lot.

AH!

But see that's the thing. YOU DON'T have to buy it 5 times.

You have to buy it once. It's a couch co op game. Only Super and Turbo added added anything of real meaning but if all you want to do is play with your buds you just needed any one version.

It's not like nowadays where you have to buy the new version every year if you want to play with people

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>>3416329
FAR BETTER.

Companies like EA would have pulled that shit. They already tried something very similarly obnoxious with need for speed 1/2 speshul edition. Being seduced by such an extra means to be sleazy, they would not have been able to seize the industry as swiftly as they did.

Games would have been decent for an extra two, maybe even three years!

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>>3416329
If sega did that, it would have been better. Since they were making all these add ons, they could have made it possible to create expansion packs. This would have been an actually good use for 1x or 1.5X cds. Not sure if it could have worked for Saturn, a cartridge expansion pack for a CD game would have been very tricky, an expansion wouldn't have had the right data for cart-disc split game, maybe some other way. Sony could have made it work very effectively, use minidisc for the expansions. Dreamcast could have just used two CD drives.

>>3417130
> However there is no excuse for something like SF4 or Marvel vs Capcom 3 to get multiple versions.
To clarify to people who don't play fighting games:

1) Marvel vs Capcom 3 had 13 new characters as well as their endings, lots of new stages, costumes and so on, and of course re-balanced the whole game; the devs said there was simply so much data to download they went the disc route. It launched for $40 in US and was the only updated version of MvC3.

2) Same story with Super Street Fighter IV; but you should note that despite updates didn't stop there, Arcade Edition and Ultra were made downloadable. Again, they added new characters and balance tweaks.

3) And last but not least: fighting games always stick to this "once a year" big update schedule. It helps clear out the confusion for players, because for pros, minor changes can mean a lot. Every game is bound to have balance holes which players will discover eventually, and in fighters it means quite a lot, so updates are a necessary thing to keep the games competitive.

>>3417608
I bet they're just going to combine the defintion of weary and wary eventually

I basically agree with your post and do more or less the same thing but your english sucks

>>3417819
It did actually. Most prominent example is Double Dragon 3 but there were a few arcade games before it that tried to get extra cash out of the players before they died.

>>3416582
I'll give a nod to this...

And say - apply it to this:
>>3416882
>>3417941
The ports of fighting games were all over the place.
-MK3 had lousy ports, as if the original was all that great to begin with, and yeah, that's on top of how they were milking it with ultimate and "trilogy"
-Mk2 had a great port ... for DOS! With a bit of compatibility issues
-Mk2's saturn port was awful, making the 32x port the good one, besides the previous one
-SF2- original PC port was atrocious, amiga too IIRC
-super SF2 turbo had a very well regarded PC port
-SF2CE had a shockingly decent PC engine port, and capcom was slipping in a nice pad to boot
-samurai showdown had a godawful SNES port
-virtua fighter supposedly had a better 32x port than saturn

It was a mess.

>>3418278
...oh yeah, the connection I'm implying there is with buggyness, "sell now, patch later" was an issue, but sometimes stuff wasn't even good after patching.

>>3416760
>The budgets are now rivaling Hollywood movies.

Yet Hollywood movies can make a profit off of $10 tickets alone. Hell even factoring in buying a Bluray after you saw it in theaters that's like $30-40 total.

>>3418239
>the devs said there was simply so much data to download they went the disc route

Really don't get why this pissed so many people off. I'd rather have a physical copy that will crap out on my only through my own neglect than data that can be gone for good if my hard drive dies after the servers that stored it are gone.

>>3418290
The movies obviously have a much wider auditory. Also, I guess the ticket model is more similar to arcades—you don't have to buy any specific hardware, and you pay to watch a movie/play game once. Although of course, you probably won't watch a movie several times a week for several years in a local cinema. But anyway, $10 for 1,5–2 hour movie can easily be an impulse buy. A lot of people don't even care about reviews, they just need any movie to watch and anything would do for them.

The console/video games are different. Sales are capped by the number of people who play video games at all—the activity is still not as universally accepted as movies; also, there are still plenty casuals who can't get into it big time but feel alright playing Guitar Hero/Wii Sports. Then, they are further divided by the hardware they use—it might not be as important for multiplatform titles, but still it influences the market.

Finally, movies have a worldwide audience, and run in theaters on the same date in dozens of different languages. Video games have much more text/voice acting and translating them is a harder job; even then, high levels of piracy and lower purchasing power affect their sales in different markets. Also, obviously, US leads the movie industry.

Take, for example, Captain America: an American movie about a superhero (!) with the fucking stars and stripes (!!) grossed 64.6% of its box office outside of US. This is different for vidya, where US, European and Japanese markets are the biggest, with the sales from other countries being pretty low.

>>3418303
I guess most people outside of fighting games get sick of this whole Ultimate Super Turbo Act Cadenza XX #Reload Isuka Wild Ambition '98 Dream Match HD Revival thing, because to them it's a ripoff, releasing the same game again for more moneys. They really measure if the game is new by the amount of new characters and graphics.

>>3417608
>unless you only buy 1yo titles
That's kind of what I do, I got Far Cry 3 for nickels and dimes, I couldn't be happier with that purchase.

Plus, if you wait a year, there'll be some patches, there'll be strategy guides, all the DLC will be out, with facts and opinions to give you an idea of which ones are worth it and which ones aren't.

>>3417921
Hah.

But seriously, the added assets of Doom 2 really let people get creative with user content, which really makes up for a lot of the mediocre and poor maps in that levelset.

>>3418290
>Yet Hollywood movies can make a profit off of $10 tickets alone.
There's a shitload more things than box office revenue that determines if a movie makes money, depending on the kind of movie, there's factors like merchandising and also sponsoring; like, the Coca Cola Company will offer to pay a chunk of your budget if your characters are shown drinking Coca Cola instead of whatever else they were drinking, maybe put in a vending machine or billboard in the background of a scene, for an extreme example of this, look at Jack & Jill, a supremely shitty movie which made huge profits off it's shameless sponsoring, to the point that the movie could have been a total bomb and it would still be a big financial success.

>>3416986
Is this some meta troll attempt or are you just dumb

>>3418465
Jack and Jill actually was a box office success. It's the Adam Sandler effect: whatever he makes, somehow people still watch it and enjoy it.

Product placement does exist, but not all movies are so full of it. You can't really put it in ancient or future setting, for example. There's more complaining about it than the actual advertising, IMO.

Of course there's also movie merchandize, but then again—it's a money maker for Marvel, but not so much for anyone else. Try and sell romantic comedy action toys.

I guess the biggest chunk of the profits still comes from box office. That's why every premiere is hyped as a second coming of Christ. A movie is coming coming up—the lead actor is on every talk show, news make a feature about it, a huge billboard appears on Times Square and so on. All that extensive marketing persuades people to come to the theaters on a set date. So I guess to movie studios, ticket sales are still the main income.

>>3418407
>>3418407
>They really measure if the game is new by the amount of new

well, fair enough

i always thought in terms of work involved, not necessairily related to fighting games but like, a reskin with some new rules and behaviours sold as a full fledge expansion pack for 50% price, or as a DLC for 20%, too much for couple months work by a remaining skeletal crew

(not that anon btw)

Gran Turismo 2 was released with a glitch that prevented 100% completion. This was fixed in the Greatest Hits release.

That's right. You couldn't even FINISH THE GAME if you didn't rebuy it.

>>3418480
im pretty sure the second thread message up there was initially making that comparisson exactly, it wasn't a joke, pennies were microtransactions for extra lives.

sure it wanst present at ur home, and it wasnt only for that since it was in fact a form of game rental paid upfront, but neither was it a timed rental, it was usually based on your skill, so ya we're back at microtransactions again.

i never had much allowance, so i never played arcade machines because i knew i would burn thru x coins in much less than what the same cash could buy me 1 hour of snes.

>>3418389
>The movies obviously have a much wider auditory.

Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part II: $381 million (usa box office)
start wars 7 = 900 million
jack and jill 2011 = 150 million (budget 80 million)

it seems the average ticket is 8usd, so 20 million ppl saw J&J and from that 70 millin profit the producers got half (i just guessing really)

The Witcher 3: 10 miilion copies x what was it 50 goldcoins?
500 millions gross (budget 81 million)

metroid other m and metroid prime 100k+ copies each in first 10 wks IIRC, released 2003 and 2010+-... i forgot what i was going with these figures

but if a AAA tittle cost $20 or $30 there would be so much impulse purchases as well.

>>3418597
Stop pulling numbers out of your ass.

>>3418597
>start wars 7
Do you expect me to take your analysis seriously now?

> it seems the average ticket is 8usd, so 20 million ppl saw J&J and from that 70 millin profit the producers got half (i just guessing really)
See: revenue vs profit. But from the amount of grammatical mistakes I'm not surprised your calculations are off.

If we count by pure numbers: Force Awakens box office in US was $0.9 billion. Assuming an average ticket price is $10, it means 90 million people in US alone saw it—all that in just 53 days. Avengers: Age of Ultron made ~$460 mln in US, ~$1,4 billion total.

No game, no matter how popular, has in the recent memory sold so many games—even worldwide, let alone in domestic market; even in way longer periods of time. GTA V, the biggest game in recent memory, had shipped 30 mln copies in 6 weeks, 60 mln copies total (in 2.5 years)—all regions, all platforms. That's why I'm saying that the movies have much wider auditory. Of course the full price of the games is usually $60, and that's probably what most people paid, especially in the first weeks; but in terms of auditory as a whole, it's not as big.

Now comes the interesting part: Force Awakens had a budget of ~300–350 mln. Age of Ultron was around $300 mln mark. What about GTA V? $265 mln, according to official statements, $150 million of which was spent on marketing. That's why I'm saying the budgets have become comparable.

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Anyone get their patches from patches-scrolls.com? They were always reliable.

Just visited the old archived site and it's fun to look thru all the old patches.

patches-scrolls.com/archives.php

Wish you could read the patch notes. Come to think of it I remember it being pretty rare to see patch notes for a game, it's nice that they are common these days.

>>3416820
>Back in the day, it was a common practice to make a new game based on the same engine, with similar art style and so on
That's still done

>>3418676
Yeah, this is literally how they make the Forza Motorsport games. Each one comes out a year apart and has like 90% of the same cars.

>>3418528
>Jack and Jill actually was a box office success.
I know, but I'm just saying, it could be a huge bomb and Sony would still rake in huge profits, because Adam Sandler and his cohorts basically fleeced the production through sponsoring and advertising, the movie is pretty much one big commercial, there's like a product or brand visible in almost every shot.

Tragically, it actually did well in the box office, further cementing this precedent.

>>3418528
>Product placement does exist, but not all movies are so full of it.
Well yeah, I know, hell I welcome it if it's sane, characters eating at McDonalds instead of a no name diner is fine, because it isn't strange for a person to eat fast food (and it helps the producion of the show/movie).

>You can't really put it in ancient or future setting, for example.
You can put stuff in a future setting if you're clever.

Look at Back To The Future Part 2, the made up contoured Pepsi bottle was a neat detail, because Pepsi would likely (and did) still exist by 2015 (hell, Pepsi actually made replicas of those bottles in 2015 as a celebration of the movie), there's the self-lacing Nike shoes, which was a cool detail to display the futuristic tech they were going for, and in the background, you can spot a Black & Decker brand kitchen utensil (used to rehydrate those deepfried pizzas), which I found bizarre enough to be actually a little funny.

>There's more complaining about it than the actual advertising, IMO.
Most movies aren't horribly obnoxious about it like Jack & Jill is though (because a filmmaker with actual dignity would put it in his movie in a way which is natural), but when it comes to merchandizing, sometimes there's no holds barred and I think that's a thing people complain a lot about, a lot of fucking retarded promotional items get made (and not just for movies).

>>3418641
>start wars 7
>seriously now?
huh??? oh u mean the typo "start" or that im disrespecting your beloved syfy franchise but not knowing ths subtitle "episode 1, no wait 7, the forces farts"

>>3418641
>grammatical mistakes = calculations
bad at english so what, i didnt do any calculations except multiply 10x50 and 150-80

i got the numbers from either boxofficemojo.com and some page commenting on a video by Red Project CEO

>>3418617
>spoonfeed me wikipedia style citation links
we're not discussing anything of importance, search "xxx box office" if you want to confirm each one, and metroid numbers i recalled from memory from an alledged screenshot of a page someone posted on the metroid remake thread, which i took as true as well.

but oops, metroid figures were for japan, i was trying to add something from some previous iteration to compare with this picture >>3416760

>>3418597
metroid prime 2.8 million, other m 1.4 million

>>3418676
>>3418682
Yeah, I don't argue with that. Same with many sports games I assume—personally I don't play them, but from what I've seen I've hardly noticed many differences between, say, NBA 2015 and 2016.

But with bigger game it's not done very often. If it's a mission pack, it's done through DLC. If it's just new characters/weapons/whatever—same story.

I think what really "justifies" buying a new game today is new graphics. That's it really; we've come to the point that Counter Strike: Global Offensive is, quite literally, the same game in everything except graphics; same maps, same weapons, same everything. Well, except it has DLC added to it, but that's basically it.

>>3418690
Um, I'm not really sure about it. I think it's one of very few movies which did this, and it was heavily panned by every critic. Other movies, I mean normal, not "who the fuck watched these" movies, probably wouldn't go that low. Also, it's Adam fucking Sandler. He's like Lucifer of movies himself.

Yep, he obviously got paid by Dunkin' Donuts and so on. But such shameless advertising is looked down upon by a lot of people and is criticized very harshly. It's an unspoken taboo I guess, I also wonder if there might be legislation against this practice.

So all in all, I don't think many people aside from Sandler could pull it off. If it was so easy, directors would do that left and right.

As for BTTF2, I don't think it was much of an advertisement, at least it was done tastefully. Pepsi was big in the '80s and its inclusion in the movie was logical. Anyway, it didn't play a role in the plot and wasn't annoying.

>>3416329
The 1999 and 2005 models can still be seen in the form of mods or total conversions. The NOW model has been dominantly popular with Electronic Arts and Ubisoft games. Activision follows the 2005 model very strongly but that doesn't mean their games aren't shit.

Mobile games are more like
>Face and Cleavage of Mona Lisa because it's free
>The rest can be obtained by giving us more money, even $100