Is latency a meme? Honestly I don't feel any difference

You don't notice it with games you're good at?

It may be harder to notice with games you aren't that much used to play, although it can still be noticeable, but if I play games that I've been playing since my childhood and have like muscular memory with it, I can easily notice the lag when I'm playing on an LCD on retroarch on ps3, for example.

Not too sure if I ever felt lag on a PC emulator using a CRT monitor though, I thought for the most part, it worked fine. I think the main problem may be the HD screens.

>>3405076
>
If you don't know how to recognize it, you may just think that you aren't as good at the game as you used to be


It's real even if you can't notice it, other people can. And it may be affecting your gaming whether you know it or not

>>3405076
Latency from emulation is a meme.
It really depends on the screen you're using.

Using Sonic 3, my favorite childhood game, as a reference this is my experience:
>Emulating on my PC feels the same as the real thing.
>A Wii on a CRT feels like the real thing
>A PSP/3DS feels like the real thing
>A Wii on a big LCD TV has very noticeable input delay

>>3405191
Your big lcd needs to be set to "game mode".

>>3405197
It was my sister's tv. Idk what the settings were. It was running 480p through component, if it matters.

>>3405076
I was playing through Banjo-Kazooie again and was at the part in the final boss battle where you rat-a-tat Grunty while she dives down at you, and for some reason I kept jumping into her before the attack registered. I figured out that I was subconsciously using the sound of Banjo jumping as a way to time the button press, sort of like a muscle memory, but the audio was a fraction of a second off, so I was always timing it wrong. For the first time, it seemed, I had to learn how to perform the move using sight only.

>>3405197
>game mode
for small TVs, sure, it helps a little.

http://www.displaylag.com/display-database/

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>>3405197
>tfw game mode on my tv has warm temperature
>Literally looks like a piss filter
>Can't customize the settings on fixed mode such as game or movie mode

I'll deal with the input lag and my custom mode with cool temperature and normal looking colors. Better yet I use a CRT.

Play Parappa in both emulator and console and you'll understand.

Try playing Punch Out or Mega Man NES.
It's not the emulator by the way, it's the screen.
That is unless you're not emulating N64 or PSX whos emulator still suck monkey balls compared to the real thing.

>>3405076
It's a meme. It can be measured, but it's ultimately insignificant. I play the same games both on actual console and on emulator and it barely matters. Most games I play are action games, too, so it'd be easy to notice if there was a really big, crippling delay. I press a button and shit happens, I'd need a high-speed camera or something to notice the delay.

Maybe my screens are top notch, but I got them cheap, so I don't think that's it. It's pretty average off-the-shelf hardware, definitely not "special gamer hardware" or anything.

Note that I skipped the first years of flat computer screens, so maybe those have high delay to the point of being bothersome, in that case, it seems modern PC screens work fine, so it might just be an old meme being parroted around.

Not really, I just auto-correct my reaction speed and timing for the most part

the only example I can think of is Advanced Guardian Heroes at that one part at the very end of the game which I pulled off a flawless 0.00 seconds timing on flash cart, but took several tries on emulator years later.

>>3405228
>It's not the emulator by the way, it's the screen.

If that's the case, why don't I feel any latency in PC shooters using the mouse when it's really obvious on an emulator?

>>3405215
I never played Parappa, but I have seen people who can perfect it on emulator recently, how old is your info?

>>3405236
Oh, I also got the SUPER SECRET SECRET in Metroid Fusion while playing on a DS (and giving myself several blisters in the process), but I can't fucking do it on emulator.

>>3405241
If you got god damn blisters doing it once, maybe you aren't very good at it. Just saying.

>>3405238
Ah I thought you were talking about emulating on consoles.
It can be the controller which has a minimum lag even if I never felt lag in nestopia on my 100hz PC monitor compared to PS3 retroarch release on my shitty 50 hz HD tv.

>>3405238
You mean something like Perfect Dark with kb+m setup?
That's because it was made for analog sticks, which means deadzones. And long swipes can't really be simulated.

>>3405076
It technically exists, but only really makes a difference in poor emulators like MAME which pile up excessive amount of it.

Beyond that it's just a bunch of nerds thinking that they can measure 10 or 20 milliseconds. If you put your NES on a lcd tv, the lag will be negligible.

>>3405191
>Latency from emulation is a meme.

Not true, I had to turn off vsync in mame because controls lagged so badly in Garou MOTW. That's about the only time I noticed it there, though.

SSF also has a lot of lag, but you can mess with the settings to reduce it, like picking lower audio buffer and such.

>>3405076
You just posted the series that literally defined the "game is crap because it's too difficult" meme, mostly caused by latency which is EVERYTHING in racing games and fast paced platformers like Sonic.

As for the emulation standpoint, really good emulators won't have any latency issues, assuming your set minimizes it as more as it can. Then there's bad emulation like the various console collections which have terrible built in latency that is always there no matter where you connect the damn thing.

Of course, using original consoles, a CRT is required for next to zero input lag, that's when you can actually say there's no artificial difficulty.

tl;dr latency is not a meme, when you're given solid proof it's there

>>3405240
The timing's off. You can get used to the "new" timing (or just learn it, if you've never played the original) and get perfects that way, I didn't mean the game was unplayable. It's just that if you've ever played the game, you'd notice the latency right away.

Latency doesn't matter for 99% of the emulated games, but it makes a striking difference in those less than 1% that do. Mostly rhythm games.

I believe some newer consoles also have trouble with latency - one case I always recall is how to get a "gold just guard" in Devil May Cry 3. I can do them on a CRT no problem, but my timing is way off on the LCD TV.

Also there's a reason they use those low latency TVs in fighting game tournaments, specially in Street Fighter 4/5.

>>3405316
Basically, it's the same reason Arino probably sucks at most timing-related games, RF decoding is commonly WAY more time consuming than composite/rgb on most non-professional equipment (not to say GCCX doesn't have professional equipment, but there's lot of re-routing) and they only use an original Famicom with no composite outputs. They were even forced to feed him audio directly from the console to help with his handicap in the Parappa episode.

Also, to put it more clear as to why emulators aren't inherently bad, I tried PS1 Wipeouts (another bane of latency) on the PS3 emulator. I kept sucking at the game pretty hard. But on PS1/PS2 through CRT and PC emulators I'm actually competent = PS3's emulator has builtin latency, therefore it's not suggested.

Has anyone heard this rumor that Windows 10 allegedly slows everything down because you can't turn off Aero theme? Is it true?

>>3405478
I don't see how that's a rumor
Aero has a very small performance impact

Any computer that's really affected by it shouldn't be running Windows 10 in the first place

Also not retro

>>3405478
no, but their steam sabotage bull shit is starting to leak out. steam takes 5 minutes to start now for no reason.

>>3405076
I haven't had a huge issue with it until i tried a bluetooth mouse. Funny thing is it's just bluetooth instead of the native wireless mode, and that's enough to kill it.

topped ranked in pubs in tribes for years with a microsoft bluetooth mouse, but this new logitech one is shit.

>>3405287
I've watched half a second latency on a shitty LCD television. It was on the XBOX 360 Sanic Collection.

>>3405245
>He's never done it
>He's never played with the original DS D-pad
underage detected

>>3405484
>not uninstalling aero and windows store using powershell

>>3405640
Is it even possible on Win 10 without screwing things up? I heard Aero is now deeply integrated into the system, so deleting it messes up the UI and some features like login screen.

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only autists care about input lags in singleplayer games. The only reason to complain about is when playing multiplayer online/LAN.

>I lost at this game because my actions are 0.1 secs delayed

>>3405709

If input lag doesn't bother you, then you might as well not even play, watch some gameplay on youtube, grab a controller and pretend it's you playing.

>>3405710

dunno m8, i have been playing on emulators since the 90's and only when i visited this shithole a few years ago some mong told me that i had input lag when playing and it was impossible to play the games like that.

>>3405718
Emulators don't cause noticeable lag, shitty TVs do. Stop being dense.

>>3405718

I doubt you were playing on LCD TVs in the 90s.

>>3405718
Maybe it's cause you have a good monitor.

The HDTV in my livingroom has insanely atrocious input lag that will piss off a normal gamer, even in single player mode.
but my monitor is fine.

There's a reason games like Rock Band has a input lag calibrator

>>3405720
>Emulators don't cause noticeable lag

Not correct. Some emulators do cause horrible lag.

>>3405748
I've heard MAME cited, but MAME isn't even a good emulator. People only use it because they have to.

>>3405540
>I've watched half a second latency on a shitty LCD television. It was on the XBOX 360 Sanic Collection.

It's a shitty emulation pack on a shit console known to break down left and right, and you are blaming the television for the lag?

>>3405758
literally all arcade emulators use the MAME cores. The only exceptions are the few late 90s/early 00s boards where you can use 3d hardware in your computer to do the displays for bumped up resolution (Naomi, Atomiswave, Model 1-2-3, ZN-1, etc).

>>3405758
MAME user for five years here, have no noticeable lag whilst playing with my arcade stick

Latency is the gamer version of "I can differentiate FLAC vs MP3 just by ear"

>>3405076
>Is latency a meme?
no

>>3405916
It took me years of practice as a musician, and even then I was only able to tell the difference after I trained my ear by doing the mixing of my band's demo myself, but it's possible.

Although it's something that not only can be lost, but also that requires a sound system good enough to even make the difference.
Most people have such shit sound system, especially considering most modern ones are anyway and that the standard in sound quality has become lower thanks to mp3 and shit material, that there is no difference.

None of this is really the case for latency. Anyone here should have played enough games, on enough different setups, to tell the difference, unless your standard is really low.

Then again, considering how many people on this board still play 50hz PAL crap willingly, the standard can still be very low.

>>3405718
In the 90s emulators were often written in hefty duty assembly because PCs at the time were only just powerful enough to emulate 16 bit hardware. genecyst, nesticle, callus, even the venerable ZSNES were very tightly coded and to this day have low lag (and low accuracy).
Modern emulators go for accuracy and are running on such powerful hardware that they aren't being coded by cycle counting asm junkies, the end result is accurate but painfully laggy crap. Retroarch can be manhandled into submission, but mednafen, mame, and that mac crapware openemu have easily 3 frames above the native releases of the cores they use.
Plus in the 90s you would have been using a CRT which would arguably be fractions of a second FASTER than the TV the console would have used.

I beat punch out and Saturn shooters on my 32" flatscreen all the time. Never noticed the lag.

>>3405916
I have really sensitive hearing, I can definitely tell the difference.
>>3405981
It bothers me that people will spend thousands of dollars on an expensive tv but will then hook up shitty throw in sound systems, having a good sound system is a must.

I've got a pretty decent monitor with less than a frame of input lag, and it still sucks complete ass compared to my CRT.

I can't imagine how anyone can play with 200+ms of lag on a fucking TV.

TVs have lots of shit to ''''prettify'''' and scale various inputs, and not all of the manufacturers care about implementing bypass route. Most modern LCD monitors have mostly unimportant lag. Older LCD monitors with, say, 30 ms lag (like the one I use right now) fuck up any reaction-dependent game, including FPS. Gayming models that boast 1 ms difference from previous generation are a waste of money. The only thing that is occasionally needed is ability to support many refresh rates higher than 60 Hz, and that's where you may look at them.

>>3405636
>calls anon underage
>plays a GBA game on a DS

What a faggot.

>>3405636
I played it on a GBA, dude. When it came out. Apparently unlike you.
So you don't only suck at it, you are also a meme faggot. Wow you suck.

>>3405916
Doesn't matter what format a song is in if it's become a casualty in the volume wars.

>>3405306
>You just posted the series that literally defined the "game is crap because it's too difficult" meme, mostly caused by latency which is EVERYTHING in racing games and fast paced platformers like Sonic.
This is not true at all
The Sonic games on the Genesis aren't difficult
The hardest thing about them is getting used to the physics(which are brilliant but take time getting used to)

The old Sonic games are huge casualfilters though and require patience and practice but once you get used to the controls they're pretty easy games

In other words lag has nothing do with Sonic's "difficulty"

Input lag matters most with rhythm, fighting and racing games. RPGs, puzzles, etc. are barely affected by input lag.

>>3406676
How old are the two of you that you seriously need the e-cred that bad over a game?

>>3406237
>Not playing GBA games on a DS Lite
It's like you don't want the definitive experience.

>>3406812
>This is not true at all

It is. You need reaction time in Sonic games.

>The Sonic games on the Genesis aren't difficult

Never said they were.

>The hardest thing about them is getting used to the physics(which are brilliant but take time getting used to)

Okay?

>The old Sonic games are huge casualfilters though and require patience and practice but once you get used to the controls they're pretty easy games

I know that, that's why input lag can make things needlessly difficult.

>In other words lag has nothing do with Sonic's "difficulty"

It does, boy it does. I know Sonic like the back of my hand and believe me input lag breaks the game really badly. That's also obviously the case with the first SMB. I suppose I can't prove casuals sucking at Sonic because input lag, but it's more than likely.

>>3406878
But you did prove you suck. I play on both. Never have a problem with the bonus stages nor levels. And I also know that games "like the back of my hand"

>>3406882
DUDE 300 MS OF INPUT LAG ARE A BIG DEAL in those games. You're just trolling if you say otherwise. When I play on the original consoles I have zero problems.

>>3406869
e-cred? what e-cred? he's the one calling underage and posting that he got blisters over a somewhat complex feat on the internets.

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OP, sorry for using your thread, but I don't want to create another useless thread, so here I go.

I have a TV that has AOC as the brand. I plan to play both new and old games in it. I browsed the brand in Display Lag, and it only has three models, which 2 of them says it's excellent, while the other one says it's great. I didn't found one that has exactly my model.

It's a LED TV however, so I think there's a chance that I fucked up. Did I?

>>3405214
Cool colors are literal shit, your TV is trying to do you a favor

http://byuu.org/articles/latency/

>>3405291
i specifically dont emulate arcade games just because mame is such a fucking shitfest

>>3405191
Depends on the emulator, though no matter what core I use on Retroarch I've never felt a thing. It also has a lot of features and stuff to help reduce it even further. Same with Dolphin, I dont notice anything. Hell hasnt Dolphin been able to get even less input lag than console for Melee and other games?
For the most part though yeah, unless youre using fucking zsnes or some garbage the latency from emulation shouldnt really be noticeable. Its all about how your controller is hooked up and your screen

>>3406827
Fighting games are pretty important to the retro scene, lets be honest.

>>3409432
I really hate mame, I hate setting it up, I hate how clusterfucked the support is, I just hate it, For most games I want to play there are ports available anyway, anything is better than using mame.

>>3407996
plz respond

>>3409556
You should hate yourself for being a low i.q fucking retard, what the cunt is hard about downloading mame then a rom and putting it in the rom folder and pressing f5 to refresh list? Fucking idiot cunt.

>if i dont notice it then it's not real

every lcd has input lag, its just the way the technology works.

>>3405076

I don't think it's possible to do the 50 super jumps in super mario RPG on zsnes.By just skill I mean.