About to buy a SEGA Saturn at a retro game store when it ships

Im not sure. I had one that my crackhead stepdad sold.
I had Shining in the Darkness, and it was kewl. Shining Force 3 was something I wanted. According to Saturnfags Arcade games, and shumps are the bread and butter of the console.

>>3228798
Not an expert on Saturn by any means but I know that Fighters Megamix and Nights into Dreams are absolutely essential.

an action replay cart

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>>3228798

You need to get this game. I just got it today.

You must have more money than sense or a mod chip/pseudo.

The three pack and a gun is a great deal to play in the meantime unless you're not going to be using a CRT (so Virtua Cop is worthless). Otherwise, there are precious few US games that are really WORTH what they cost. Maybe Fighters Mega Mix? I like Virtual Hydlide personally and it gets so much hate that it's cheap.

>>3229143
None of the big money Saturn games are bad. Which is a rare thing with consoles.

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>>3228798
What you really need is one of the 4 in 1 memory carts. They'll let you get past the region lock to play Japanese imports and give your system more RAM (although only Japanese games utilize it). It'll give your system more memory for saves too.

http://www.amazon.com/Action-Replay-4M-Plus-enhancement-sega/dp/B008FPMBNG

With that cart, Street Fighter Zero 2 and Vampire Savior are two great import fighters and the games are entirely in English.

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Radiant Silvergun and Enemy Zero

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>>3228798

>buy a Saturn for $30 back in 2010
>had no money afterwards to get games for it
>now I do
>games are twice or more as expensive as the console I bought

>>3229165
play station did 3d better, but the Saturn was a 2d power house.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZLGaaZbODM

>>3229172
doesn't matter when you can play backups easily with pseudo saturn

>>3229180
Wait, I can burn CDs with Saturn toms and play them like the Dreamcast? Or do I need to mod it?

>>3229176
What am I supposed to be looking for? They're too close.

>>3228798
I dunno much about the Saturn but Get Mega Man 8. Way better than the PS version at least in terms of music.

>>3229285
all the extra frames of animation

>>3229172
>got Saturn for free in 2014
>pay for games anyways since they'll just keep going up in price

Don't give a fuck. At worst, I'll make back what I paid for it.

If I use pseudo saturn on a nipponese saturn, I can still play any game on it regardless of the region, right?

dumb question, I know, but I want to make sure

>>3229273
You need an action replay, then you need to do a swap trick once to flash pseudo saturn to the action replay. Then you can play all burned games without swapping
Nothing on the Saturn itself will be modded

>>3229150
They're good but they're not THAT good. I have PDS and it's a good game but when it hits $1000 I'm selling!

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>>3229374

Yes, it works for any Saturn, and you can play any region games with it. It's the magic key to the world of Saturn.

>>3229392
PDS is a unique experience. In the RPG world unique is usually synonymous with terrible. That' what makes PDS such an amazing game.
I hate RPG and I think it's one of the best ever made.

Then look at Burning Rangers. One of the best games of the gen there that nobody gives a shit about.

Really the only big dollar game I'd say is pointless to buy is SEGA Ages. Just get the jap version.

>>3229378

The only "mod" that you need to do with Model 2 Saturns is attaching a little tape to a switch inside the Saturn, that's the one that enables the Saturn to load discs with the disc tray open.

But you can just take the tape off if you want after the flashing is done, since you won't need to do swap again. I still left it just in case, also didn't want to bother.

Opening up the saturn was good to clean the dust off and also wash the plastic case. It's been a while since I bought this Saturn, 1997, it was all dusty as fuck inside.

>>3229410
>It's the magic key to the world of Saturn.

Nah, it's literally the peasant tier fix for your Saturn. Doesn't allow you to use the cart for saving, has problems on some games, requires the use of a boot menu instead of directly launching games, and the cart slot is so bad that you'll have problems getting it working anyway.

A proper solution is a modchip + a region free bios. Then you can use save carts, ROM carts, or 1mb/4mb carts (some games like Metal Slug run bad on a 4mb cart, including the action replay).

Hilariously enough, pseudosaturn made Action Replays so sought after, that those carts have doubled in price - while modchips only became cheaper and cheaper.

You NEED an action replay 4in1. Get two of them. You can hack one of them to play burn games. You update the firmware of the Action Replay. Look up Pseudo Saturn. I found the Atlus boot disc for the cfw worked best.

>>3229604

Nah, it's just another way man, no need to be a dick about your personal preference.
The real best way to enjoy Saturn is having different Saturns for different regions and their original games CIB. That's the true patrician way. But since most of us are poor peasants, we have to recur to cheap chinese carts and raping the system with modchips.

The cart thing is very arguable. The AR is great because it has both saving and RAM, but if you flash for pseudosaturn, you lose the save ability, OK. (you can still flash the cart back to its original form if you want, too).
But here's the thing. AR carts' memory isn't very reliable. I have lost all my saves on it, and have read online many other people who did, too. The solution for me was to get an official Sega memory cart. I store my saves there (anyway my Saturn has a new internal battery, so I only make backup savings on the cart every once in a while).

So basically, the "you can use save carts, ROM carts" is kind of pointless between modchip and using pseudo, there's no difference.
Metal Slug has slowdowns in the Saturn port, RAM cart or not.
The only downside of pseudo is that as you said some games might not work, I'm not sure which ones but I remember the Panzer Dragoon games didn't work, which would suck. I have the legit PD trilogy for Saturn so I haven't bothered to check for those. What other games don't work on pseudosaturn though? I have burned dozens of games since I flashed my AR carts and everything works fine. It's wonderful, really.

>>3228798
Okay, here we go. List doesn't care about region limits, but you can assume everything is playable without understanding a lick of moon.
I am disregarding modern download versions wrt exclusives/multiplats.

>Essential Exclusives
Bulk Slash
Panzer Dragoon
Panzer Dragoon Zwei
Nights
Assault Suits Leynos
Sonic R

>Essential arcade ports
Elevator Action Returns
Radiant Silvergun

>You really like SHMUPs but can't stand emulation
Battle Garegga
Soukyugurentai
Galactic Attack/Layer Section
Darius Gaiden
Every Parodius
Detana Twin Bee Yahho Deluxe Pack

>Also good games
Clockwork Knight 1&2 (A friend swears the second one is top tier platforming)
Astal
Burning Rangers
Guardian Heroes

>Undisputably superior multiplats
Megaman 8
Silhouette Mirage

>Gotta fight your friend
Vampire Savior
Street Fighter Zero 2
Fighters Megamix: Revenge of car
Asuka 120% LimitOver Burning Fest. (Romhack by original devs only availabe burned to backup disc)
Anarchy in the Nippon (Virtua Fighter with salaryman and kogal)
Groove on Fight
The King of Fighters 96-97
Waku Waku 7

>You have a CRT and wish to shoot a gun at it
Virtua Cop
The House of the Dead

>Shit I haven't played that seems cool enough
Tryrush Deppy
Super Tempo
Keio Flying Squadron 2
Dragon Force
Shining Force III
Dark Savior
Magical Knight Rayearth
Panzer Dragoon Saga

>>3229714
>>Essential Exclusives
>Sonic R

>>3228798
initial d
saturn bomberman fight!!
lupin iii: the sage of pyramid
radiant silvergun
sonic r
three dirty dwarves
dodonpachi
die hard arcade
virtual on
steep slope sliders
virtua fighter 2
street fighter zero 3
pocket fighter

>>3229720
Sonic R being bad is a meme perpetrated by Mario Karters

>>3229793
It's not essential by any means.

>>3229793
>if someone doesn't like Sonic R, they MUST be Mario Kart fans!

please.

Also it's true Sonic R isn't really good, it wasn't made by AM2 or actual good racing devs from Sega, it was outsourced to a western dev company and the game is pretty mediocre and also not a Saturn exclusive, most people played that on PC.

Panzer Dragoon 1 was also on PC by the way, II and Saga remain exclusives to the system though.

>>3229804
Nor exclusive.

>>3228798
Nights into Dreams
Fighters Megamix
Panzer Dragoon
Panzer Dragoon Zwei
Die Hard Arcade

Cheap arcade ports - Sega Rally, Virtua Cop, Virtua Fighter 2.

Not sure if I can recommend Daytona. Arcade game is great but I never plaed the Saturn version.

>>3229878
Poor graphics and inferior framrate, but better music and the handling is there.

>>3229665
>The real best way to enjoy Saturn is having different Saturns for different regions and their original games CIB.

Nah, you only need 1 jap Saturn. All the good games are cheaper if you go for the jap versions; it's idiotic to buy USA or PAL Saturn games.
Only a handful of titles are better played in English, and some of those are even fan translations.

>So basically, the "you can use save carts, ROM carts" is kind of pointless between modchip and using pseudo, there's no difference.

No, it's not.
With Pseudo, you can only use the internal memory. If you want to save, you have to switch carts, which kills the shitty cart slot.
With a modchip, you can just have a save cart there 24/7 and have all games save to it directly. You won't even need a battery.

The only thing you lose is 4mb ram expansion, but that one is only used by cps2 and neogeo ports which you can just play on MAME.

And like I said, with a modchip you boot the game as you would on an original cd. You don't have to go through menus and shit.

>>3229878
>Cheap arcade ports - Sega Rally, Virtua Cop, Virtua Fighter 2.

Virtua Fighter 2 was considered a jaw dropping good home port at the time of release.

>>3229939
No I mean they are usually sold for cheap. I see Saturn VF2 for $5 at Retro Sttoes.

>>3229932
>With a modchip, you can just have a save cart there 24/7 and have all games save to it directly. You won't even need a battery.

As I said I have an internal battery and make backup saves to my original Sega memory backup cart every once in a while, since I'm not doing constantly (I might make a backup once every couple months).

>The only thing you lose is 4mb ram expansion, but that one is only used by cps2 and neogeo ports which you can just play on MAME.

Then why did you bring up the Metal Slug thing before? Just play it on MAME.
Anyway I like to play some ports on the Saturn. Me and my buddies love Vampire Savior and the Saturn version has full animation and the 3 exclusive Hunter characters that the arcade versions lack.
I know there's the PS2 and PS3 versions but I don't have those and honestly I love playing it on the Saturn for the controller mostly. I actually have Vampire Savior and many other fighting games legit, so I don't really need the pseudo for them, I just use the AR for the extra RAM.

>You don't have to go through menus and shit.

It's just pressing A once, you don't even need to navigate anything.

Anyway as I said, both ways to do Saturn piracy are fine. I prefer my non-mod method, but it's OK if you prefer the modchip, I don't mind. I wouldn't mod my console though.

>>3229939
VF2 is excellent and has some cool extra shit liek arranged soundtrack and AI-learning shit for the CPU.

>>3229665
>Metal Slug has slowdowns in the Saturn port, RAM cart or not.

So does the arcade version. The Metal Slug Saturn = slowdown thing is because people are too used to play it in MAME.

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Get a modchip, pseudosaturn, or wait for Phoebe/Rhea, depending which Saturn you have.

>>3230004
I'll find out tomorrow.

are the shoulder buttons on the controller supposed to feel so shitty?

Feels like theyre barely even pushing in when I click them

>essential items to get

Action replay
lets you play japanese games that need the cart or don't (except KOF 95 and ultraman they need their own special cart) and it can be exploited to play backups

>Saturn Original JP/ US Model 2 controller
best 2D controller ever made imo

>some sort of arcade stick
i can't vouch for any in particular since I dont have any but, there is probably someone here that can help you with that since the arcade has so many arcade titles

>some games i recommend
>Psychic Killer Taromaru
it's like SotN graphics with gameplay of alien soldier set in ancient japan or a darker version of pocky and rocky

>Battle Garegga
Forget Radiant Silvergun or DDP, if you want a real challeng, this is worth it or not. people either like or hate the game.

>Hyper Duel
Technosoft quality shooter nuff said

>Terra Diver
another razing game that was made for the ST-V. Pretty solid shooter,

>Die Hard Arcade
One of the best STI games ever made besides comix zone.

>Panzer Dragoon Series
Three amazing titles the first being good but still basic (also on the Xbox via Panzer Dragoon orta), Zwei improves drastically from the predcessor, Saga may be the best non square RPG I've played. It has the Parasite eve battle system and it's overall an epic experience but not worth the 500 dollars it goes for.

the rest have probably been said here but theres some of mine. Saturn rules

>>3228798
From my collection and experience:
>Must-have exclusives:
Nights into dreams
Panzer Dragoon
Panzer Dragoon zwei
Sonic R
Sega Rally championship
Daytona USA Championship circuit edition (don't bother with vanilla)
Night warriors revenge (darkstalkers 2)
>great but 500$ Jesus why tier
Burning rangers
Panzer Dragoon saga
>great ports/multiplats
Mech warrior 2
Wipeout
>Good shit no one knows about tier
Cyber speedway (the best hover racer besides actual F-zero)
The need for speed (NFS1 and yes it's really good for no good reason)Resident Evil
>overrated don't bother with tier
Clockwork knight
Mr bones (shivers)
D

Also if you have the light gun and a crt feel free to pick up area 51 and virtua cop, also house of the dead but be prepared to pay up.

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>>3230110
Oh shit how could I forget! This game is fucking fantastic, easy to find, and way way better than the PS1 version. Must have gem no one knows about.

>>3230110
>>great but 500$ Jesus why tier
>Burning rangers

It's $30, not $500.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sega-Saturn-Burning-Rangers-included-spine-card-mini-CD-JAPAN-19691-/172190507161

PD Saga is even cheaper, if you know moon.

>>3230226
>>3230110
Currency goes before the value.

Also the English OST is far far faaaaarrrr superior for Burning Rangers.

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>>3230231
>>It's $30, not $500.
>Currency goes before the value.

...

>>3230242
Two posts are linked.

>>3230231
>Currency goes before the value.
Unless you're a filthy Quebecois.

>>3229970
And even in MAME, it still has slowdown.

>>3228798
Avoid Astal, it's fucking crap.

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>>3230249
It's still headcanon of mine that pic related is a jab at quebecios. Pretends to be French, head firmly wedged up the ass, and an entitled cunt? YUP.

Are the SNK ports on Saturn any good?

>>3229172
At least you got it for $30, I paid $80 CAD for mine in 2013 after the last one broke.

>>3231496
They only use the 1mb card, meaning they have missing animation, on top of a lot of slowdown and loading times. They also glitch up if you use an action replay with them.

They were still the best home console ports for the time, but that's not saying much.

>>3231576
>meaning they have missing animation, on top of a lot of slowdown and loading times.

But...is this supposed to be different to Neo Geo CD?

>>3231576
Still never encountered or remember those errors using an action replay.

>>3231496
Ma man, I had the PS1 port of Metal Slug 1 and X and loved them. Loading screens did not bother me even though I had played the arcade and I had a great time playing it.

Since the SS is purported to be better at 2D, I think you'll be just fine with the MS games.

>>3231584
The NGCD had 3x the RAM of a Saturn.

>>3231590
Not all action replays glitch up. Some of them also need you to cut a trace for all 4mb games to work. It's finicky as fuck.

>>3231628
>The NGCD had 3x the RAM of a Saturn.

But I mean "ports" to the Neo Geo CD tended to remove a bit of animation here and there, had lengthy load times, and it's not as if the original games were completely free from slowdown either. So I mean, can the Saturn ports be really considered so different?

The Neo Geo CD didn't have 3x the RAM, it wasn't even double. NGCD is 7 MB of RAM while un-upgraded Saturn is 4 MB of RAM. If the SNK ports used the 4 MB cartridge the Saturn would have had more RAM.

>>3229036
>>3228998
I don't really get the hype for this game. No it's not bad, but when people say it's essential I can only think of that in the context that it's a first party sega game that supports the 3d controller.

>>3229714
>Essential Exclusives
>Sonic R

>Essential arcade ports
Elevator Action Returns
Radiant Silvergun
Nice listing two of the most expensive import titles.

>>3229773
>saturn bomberman fight!!
>no saturn bomberman
Weird.

>>3230093
>Terra Diver
Just import Soukyuugurentai. If you have a US Saturn get the Otokuyo version, it's already in English.

>>3229417
>>3229143
At first I didn't even bother buying a US Saturn. I know enough Japanese to get by even in RPGs, and a lot of the better action-y games you can totally get by without knowing the language. You'll save a ton of money on individual games, and the Japanese library is much larger anyway. If you have a US Saturn then getting the action replay 2in1 is probably a good option since it gives you access to the more affordable japanese library. I only own a US Saturn because I wanted to buy some ram/ memory carts and a Saturn happened to come with them.

>>3230071
While the travel is weirdly short, and there's little tactile feedback, the shoulder button's shittiness is somewhat mitigated by its slightly audible click.

>>3231674
>Nice listing two of the most expensive import titles.

Nowhere even near. Look up Cotton Boomerang and Super Tempo.

>>3231640
>The Neo Geo CD didn't have 3x the RAM, it wasn't even double. NGCD is 7 MB of RAM while un-upgraded Saturn is 4 MB of RAM. If the SNK ports used the 4 MB cartridge the Saturn would have had more RAM.

This is arguable. The Saturn memory map was extremely fragmented. You had 1mb fast ram, 1mb slow ram, 512k for sprites, 512k for backgrounds, 512k for sound, 512k as cdrom buffer. There's also 2x256k framebuffer, but that's necessary to just display graphics, you can't use it as storage.

NGCD had 2mb main ram (equal), 1mb sound ram (double of the Saturn, and 4mb + 128k video memory with no framebuffer (over 4 times the vram). Plus 512k more for pattern tables (on the Saturn, this was also in generic vram).

The Saturns only advantage was the 1mb expansion and the cdrom buffer, both which further segmented the memory map. Additionally, since the amount of VRAM was low, you had to copy over animation from main memory to VRAM, and while you did that, the Saturn could not draw graphics, it was completely halted.

So going by sheer numbers the NGCD might not have had double the memory, but when it comes to practical usefulness it might've had as much as 3x more.

In practice this meant that the Saturn ports of SNK games had missing animations and more slowdown than Neogeo original versions - on top of the loading times (which weren't as bad as the NGCD, but the NGCD had the CDZ model which improved a lot on it)

>>3231674
>Just import Soukyuugurentai. If you have a US Saturn get the Otokuyo version, it's already in English.

Little correction here. The original release of Souky was buggy as fuck, sometimes randomly locked up, and if played on a US Saturn it had garbled graphics and called itself Terra Diver in the attract, and was partially in English. Leftover code from the original arcade version.

But the only English text was one or two parts of the story text and the intro. Stuff like the options menu is still in Japanese.

The Otokuyo version was japan only and fixed all of those problems, had no partial English leftovers, and had a battle garegga demo included.

>>3231674
Idk why anyone buys a Saturn if they don't like NiGHTS.
Idk how anyone hates NiGHTS unless they just retro games.

>>3231681
>of the
It doesn't imply they are the most expensive. They are of the most expensive. Cotton can be had for less than Silvergun if you know where to look, and the price difference in the right places isn't even that much.

>>3231716
Didn't know they removed the english bits from the Otkuyo version, but from everything I've read the original isn't buggy at all if played on a JP Saturn. I don't own both games so I'm not sure what is exactly true, but in japan the budget Otokuyo version isn't as valuable as the original.

>>3231726
Idk has anyone really been far even as decided to use NiGHTS even go want to do look more like retro games?

>>3231738
Just saying man NiGHTS is an excellent game. Continue on making fun of my grammar.

>>3231728
>but from everything I've read the original isn't buggy at all if played on a JP Saturn.

the initial release had random problems. They did a second print run that fixed some of it. Then they did Otokoyo.

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>tfw lost my Christmas Nights sampler disc

>>3231726
Nights is overrated and boring as shit. And not even an exclusive, so why fucking bother.

>>3231728
>It doesn't imply they are the most expensive. They are of the most expensive. Cotton can be had for less than Silvergun if you know where to look, and the price difference in the right places isn't even that much.

RSG isn't "of the" most expensive. It's only what, $200 or so? Ton of Saturn games are in the $400+ ballpark. RSG is fucking cheap compared to stuff like USA release of Panzer Dragoon Saga, or some of the more sought after jap shmups.

Cotton 2 can be had for cheaper than RSG, yes, but for Boomerang you are looking at $300 minimum, and that's usually without extras. Hell the teacup alone costs more than a complete copy of RSG.

>>3231771
>Nights is overrated and boring as shit.
If there was a moment for underageb& to actually get banned this is it.
>And not even an exclusive, so why fucking bother.
The best version is the Saturn version?

OP here. I'll tell you the model when I get there in about an hour.

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>>3229163
shut up dude! You're going to make the prices of import Saturn games sky rocket now!

>>3231712
>NGCD had 2mb main ram (equal)

There are other (minor) things to consider of course. The Saturn RAM will be a lot faster than the Neo Geo. As good as the Neo Geo was, it is still the product of 4 year older technology.

>1mb sound ram (double of the Saturn

Yeah, I think this is one of the more obvious things when playing the ports on Saturn. The sound quality has been reduced a bit. The Saturn also lacks ADPCM which the Neo Geo has. In saying that, the Saturn does have way more CPU power than the Neo Geo, so there is potential for software sound compression codecs that use that 512 KB sound RAM more efficiently. I think King of Fighters 97 on Saturn has better sound quality than 96 so maybe there's something in that.

>4mb + 128k video memory with no framebuffer (over 4 times the vram)

In theory, the tilemap engine provided by VDP2 should be more efficient with RAM than Neo Geo's full sprite method, but I'm not sure if they would have taken much advantage of it in ports. Also in theory you could take advantage of the framebuffer to save on RAM in other places if certain pixels in the framebuffer are unlikely to change (maybe with the layered backgrounds), but again another wild guess.

Saturn might be lacking a little RAM, but one has to remember that the components that are there are faster than Neo Geo. The load times should be better too. It has a 2x drive, while even the CDZ has a 1x drive (I think all they added was some cache).

>>3231496
>>3231576

I think it depends on the game, I have Real Bout Special and as far as I can tell there is no missing animations, the game is pretty much like the arcade, the only difference is the sound and the loading times.
I still consider it a good port.

>>3228798
That better not be a Model 2, Anon.

>>3231798
DO NOT BUY A MODEL 2.

We have had many arguments on these threads, but the Model 2 used a number of cheaper parts and shittier chinese made chips.

Model 1 used much more expensive chipsets. Model 2 was about cutting cost.

>>3231898
Oh hey it's this retard again.
Got any facts this time around or just opinion and google parrot as per norm?

>>3231914
>google parrot
>opinion

Last time we showed a ton of pics with shittier chinese made parts.

>>3231974
You showed a pic and then went on saying it was shit because "I said so".

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I collect Saturns, have both model 1 and model 2, and US and JP, and they all work the same.

Don't let shitposters scare you.

I believe SOME model 2s have slightly worse video output? But those were a small batch (I think an initial ship of them). All my model 2 seem to work the exact same as my model 1.

It's not like with the Genesis where model 1 and model 2 have a huge difference in sound.

>>3232007
why do you have so many of those and why do you own more than one saturn

OP here. It's USA model 1.

>>3232021
Nice.

Model 1 is the best.

Nights
Shining Force games/spinoffs
Radiant Silvergun
Panzer Dragoon series
Burning Rangers
Dragon Force
Guardian Heroes
Fighters Megamix
Die Hard Arcade

Getting an Action Replay cart (even a shitty aftermarket Chinese one) and putting Pseudosaturn on it is essential, as the Saturn is infeasible to legitimately collect for and near-impossible to decently emulate. You can Google the process but I need to warn you that everyone makes it out to be much easier than it actually is, don't be surprised if you spend hours burning multiple discs from multiple files and still can't get the swap trick down. The reward is absolutely worth the trouble though, the Saturn is a wonderful console.

>>3232024

Stop circlejerking the model you got, both models are fine.

OP, did you get a model 1 controller as well? Try to get model 2 controller, or JP controllers, they've got the superior d-pad.

>>3232007
The Model 1 vs Model 2 people are largely discussing the quality of the revision.

The Model 2 was made in China and used cheap chink chipsets. A lot of the chipsets are changed for the model 2 to cut costs.

>Model 2 was 100 dollars or more cheaper
>Sega was bleeding money trying to get the unit cheaper

>IT'S THE EXACT SAME QUALITY, LOL, I HAVEN'T NOTICED ANY ISSUES SO IT'S OBVIOUSLY IDENTICAL

Man, Saturn threads keep getting shittier and shittier.

>>3231976
>>3232007
>>3232027
It is
FACT
1. The Sega Saturn Model 1 was very expensive and used Japanese parts, it was made in Japan

2. The Sega Saturn Model 2 was much cheaper and made in China. It used Chinese chipsets and many of the Japanese chips were replaced by Chinese chips

3. Chinese shit is cheap, and lower quality

Not Fact:
1. There is absolutely no difference in Model 1 or Model 2 because I haven't seen any differences!

2. Obviously, Chinese and Japanese models are identical, they don't have different parts and they can't be different quality

You're repeating "Not Fact"

Just because you can't see a difference doesn't mean there isn't, objectively, a big difference. Whether they aren't old enough yet for us to see is anybodies guess, but the Model 2 is objectively cheaper made.

>>3232031

But if there really isn't any actual noticeable difference, then what's the issue?

Are model 2 chips supposed to die earlier?

>>3232027
Only have one type of controller, first version. Console not modified in any way, only two games from everyone's mentions are here. Die Hard Arcade, and Virtual Fighter 2.

>>3232038
>m-muh Model 2!!!!
>anyone who says Model 2 is bad is making the threads shittier!

I'm tired of chinese electronics consumers.

>>3232042
No one knows for sure yet, but people who continue to proclaim there's no difference are just retarded. Everyone knows, especially in the mid 90s, Chinese shit was cheap. They were one of the major causes of the capacitor plague.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

>>3232049
If they are functionally identical who cares

>>3232049

Fair enough, but then so far nobody knows for sure. maybe models 1 also have some kind of issue that is waiting to fail, like the capacitors on the Game Gears (which were made in Japan).

In the long run nobody knows for sure if model 1 or 2 is going to live longer. Probably there isn't really a big difference.

At least since the model 2 were made later, their optical lens might live further.

>>3232046

Why did you assume that?

I have a model 1 I bought back in 1996, but these threads still keep getting shittier, nothing but millenial hipsters who weren't even alive back when the Saturn came out.
Now you kids spend your wageslave money on Saturn and games and go online acting all cocky about your "hidden gem" console from before you were born.

>lived in Hong Kong for a year teaching English
>went to dentist

>tools were still dirty from the last person there

I'll never buy chinese shit again.

>>3232076

Hong Kong is a degenerate place plagued by britbong degeneracy. It's not real China.

>>3232070
I'm 25, and grew up with my Saturn Model 1. It still works. I stick with the original Japanese Model 1 for a variety of reasons, the primary one is because I am aware at how much Sega was trying to cut costs when they pumped out the Model 2.

>>3231850
>The Saturn RAM will be a lot faster than the Neo Geo.

Only 1mb of the Saturns main memory was fast. The other 1mb was DRAM tacked on to a 16bit bus.

>there is potential for software sound compression codecs that use that 512 KB sound RAM more efficiently

The SCSP can only use uncompressed samples, and the 68k driving it is not powerful enough for adpcm decompression. A few games used ADPCM for background music, but that was just one single stream. Very late games did use ADX audio driving both music and SFX, but that one used quite a lot of CPU power from what I've heard. Regardless, no SNK game used ADX, and I don't know if any of them even used ADPCM - they just used redbook audio for music.

>In theory, the tilemap engine provided by VDP2 should be more efficient with RAM than Neo Geo's full sprite method

The problem here is that the NG games were made with sprite based backgrounds in mind, so they wouldn't take advantage of the "compression" that tilemaps allow for (ie. the reuse of similar tiles).

>Also in theory you could take advantage of the framebuffer to save on RAM in other places if certain pixels in the framebuffer are unlikely to change (maybe with the layered backgrounds)

Unfortunately you don't have that level of control over a framebuffer. You can't selectively erase some parts, so this is not possible. Unless you do something like overwriting certain parts with empty pixels, which is more taxing than rewriting what you use normally.
The framebuffer is just a canvas the system draws to, not an active memory area.

And all the advantages the Saturn has in memory speed go out the window because the system has to stream in new animations to VRAM which stops the system from drawing sprites; and faster RAM does not matter when you don't have enough to hold all animations to begin with.

CDZ had a 2x drive, that was its biggest feature. It also had more cache.

>>3232082

I'm 30 and grew up with older consoles, but I got a Saturn model 2 in '97, it still works too, like a tank.

I'm sticking with it, if it fails, then I will just buy a japanese model 1 I guess (I love those grey models), but so far I really have no reason.

Not like the Saturns are expensive anyway, it's some games that are mad pricey, not the consoles.

File: HST-3210 serials.jpg (281KB, 297x1889px) Image search: [Google]

281KB, 297x1889px

>>3232041
Both Model 1s and Model 2s were made in Japan, Indonesia, China, and Taiwan. Even Malaysia.

And it doesn't fucking matter where they were made because they just assembled them there. None of the parts used were actually made in those countries.

>>3232094
I'm not the Model 1/2 guy, but I know that when you cut costs, you aren't going to be able to keep identical 1:1 quality.

Whether or not there is a functional difference is still argued.

File: HST-3220 serials.jpg (363KB, 297x2426px) Image search: [Google]

363KB, 297x2426px

>>3232101
previous pic had model 1 serials, this pic has model 2 serials. Both units were made all over the world.

File: 1460097955349.png (3MB, 1649x800px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1649x800px

>>3232101
>>3232104

File: Sega-Saturn-Motherboard.jpg (988KB, 2500x2300px) Image search: [Google]

988KB, 2500x2300px

>>3232028
>>3232041
Model 2 PCBs are made in chine you dumbfucks.

This underageb& really needs to just leave

Every "negative" you say about the model 2s is 100% opinion and or bullshit.

>>3232102
The Saturn had a complex motherboard. Most of the cost cutting at first was making a design that was easier to assemble. They only managed to cut costs by late 96-early 97 when they combined some chips into a single ASIC - less chips, less cost.

>>3232107
>Model 2 PCBs are made in chine you dumbfucks.

Both of those posts you quoted say that.

>>3232106
Red circles mean bad!
>>3232107
aren't made in china*

>>3232113
Red circles mean differences, you little chine retard.

>>3232116
Doesn't mean they're bad or better.

So, should I get rid of my model 2 (that works perfectly fine) and buy a model 1? Or there's really no difference when it comes to actual usage?

Are there some games that run better on model 1 or something like that?

File: 3752416162_6322cf69ec_z.jpg (190KB, 473x500px) Image search: [Google]

190KB, 473x500px

>>3232107
>Model 2 PCBs are made in chine you dumbfucks.

Freudian slip? Guess you're just arguing to argue, and actually agree subconsciously?

>>3232118
>Chinese products
>Equal quality

File: 1460146042063.jpg (1MB, 1649x800px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1649x800px

>>3232106

>>3232123
>USER MODIFICATION

RETARD THEY REMOVED THE CD ACCESS LIGHT ON THE MODEL 2'S

YOUR ENTIRE PICTURE IS BULLSHIT IF YOU DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THAT

>>3232123
>>3232124
Wow...
This is pretty bad.

Retards correcting retards.

>>3232124
>capslock

what the fuck, chill people.... we're discussing stuff nobody here really knows about. All you're doing is looking up wiki information and comparing chips, but none of you are electronic experts, you're just basemen dwellers.

You got a Saturn? Bravo! Enjoy it, go a and play it instead of arguing that your model is superior on a taiwanese cartoon board.

>>3232121
Says made in Japan right on the board, chucklenuts.

>>3232124
>RETARD THEY REMOVED THE CD ACCESS LIGHT ON THE MODEL 2'S

Uh, okay? And? That doesn't make the entire unit the kind of third rate chink bootleg that you imply.

File: 1z23p68.jpg (27KB, 600x480px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 600x480px

model 1 units are going to die earlier

>>3232129
The guy said
"User modification"

Which shows he doesn't even know what the fuck he's talking about, because that wasn't a user modification.

File: 2013032800451960.jpg (107KB, 600x421px) Image search: [Google]

107KB, 600x421px

>>3232126
>model is superior on a taiwanese cartoon board.

Dumbass no one is arguing about taiwanese, they're saying the chinese boards are worse.

>>3232134
The user modification is that the led was re-added.

>>3232137

So wait... what's with the rabbit pictures?

>Sega Saturn Model 2 is better
>There are people who seriously think Chinese products are superior

ONE STEP CLOSER TO THE EDGE, AND I'M ABOUT TO REEEEEEEEEEE

>>3232140
That's a bunny, anon.

>>3232145

Nobody is saying model 2 is better, just that there is no practical difference and probably your precious model 1 is going to die first, lol

Also, stop using capslock, take your pill and go to bed sperg.

File: 1431236221310.jpg (60KB, 700x500px) Image search: [Google]

60KB, 700x500px

>>3232149
>Also, stop using capslock, take your pill and go to bed sperg.

File: badass-segata.jpg (44KB, 279x350px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 279x350px

Model 1 confirmed inferior:
>>3231731

>>3232085
>>3232142

File: 1424898544438.png (462KB, 850x506px) Image search: [Google]

462KB, 850x506px

>>3232154
>>3232157

OP here.
Guy gave me VF2 and another game of my choice for free because they forgot to send an AV cable. That's being mailed now. Thanks anons for the information and tips for the Saturn.

>>3232087
>Only 1mb of the Saturns main memory was fast. The other 1mb was DRAM tacked on to a 16bit bus.

The slow RAM is actually FRAM, which is a propriety improvement over DRAM. It's no SDRAM though. It still should be faster than what the Neo Geo has.

>68k driving it is not powerful enough for adpcm decompression

I find this hard to believe considering people wrote demo ADPCM codecs for the 68000 in the Atari ST. It's generally not used for background music but sound effects. Many SNK ports on Saturn just use redbook from the Neo Geo CD version for background music. But the sound effects are up-pitched to make them smaller and shorter.

>so they wouldn't take advantage of the "compression" that tilemaps allow for (ie. the reuse of similar tiles).

Unless VDP2 sat completely idle, they would have taken some advantage of the tilemapping system. It would be possible to run a process for converting sprite based backgrounds to something that tilemaps can work with. But who knows? Maybe VDP2 was idle (but if that were so, then even less VRAM would be used).

>Unfortunately you don't have that level of control over a framebuffer

You can specify the size of the framebuffer and you do have control over RAM. That's how framebuffer tricks work.

>CDZ had a 2x drive, that was its biggest feature.

I'm fairly sure I heard somewhere that CDZ having a 2x drive was merely a baseless meme and it's literally a 1x drive backed with some cache.

>>3232171
>The slow RAM is actually FRAM, which is a propriety improvement over DRAM. It's no SDRAM though. It still should be faster than what the Neo Geo has.

er, no, it's simple DRAM. You can look it up if you want, the parts they used was Hitachi, HM514260AJ7, Toshiba TC514260BJ-70, Samsung KM416C256BJ-7, Fujitsu 814260-70, Mitsubishi M5M44260CJ, and some others. All basic 256k x 16bit dram.
FRAM was only used in Sonic 3 carts as far as Sega stuff goes.


>I find this hard to believe considering people wrote demo ADPCM codecs for the 68000 in the Atari ST.

Sure, you can do it, but you have to do it efficiently and with a high polyphony. While also running the general sound driver.
Like I said, doing 1 adpcm stream is not a problem. Doing multiple ones for sfx, IS a problem.

>Unless VDP2 sat completely idle, they would have taken some advantage of the tilemapping system. It would be possible to run a process for converting sprite based backgrounds to something that tilemaps can work with.

That's just about what they did, but no more. What I meant was that they did not use tilemaps in a clever manner, they just used it to do whatever the Neogeo did to build backgrounds.

>You can specify the size of the framebuffer and you do have control over RAM. That's how framebuffer tricks work.

The framebuffer always uses up the entire 256k, you can only specify the resolution/colour depth within those limits. As for framebuffer tricks keep in mind that to read/write crap into any of the VRAM, you have to go through the VDPs, which means they stop drawing shit. So any framebuffer tricks would eat away drawing time. Additionally, the Saturn has a segmented vram (vdp1) + 2xframebuffer + vram (vdp2), to make the dual VDP setup possible: one framebuffer chip is always drawn to by the VDP1, while the other is read by the VDP2. You can't do tricks like using the framebuffer as a texture, unless you copy it back into VRAM first, which is a prohibitively expensive operation.

>>3232171
>I'm fairly sure I heard somewhere that CDZ having a 2x drive was merely a baseless meme and it's literally a 1x drive backed with some cache.

I don't know the system but I'd think that it had to have a faster drive to improve loading times on all software. If it only had faster cache, then that would only help on games that took advantage of it - but it improved on every single game, so there was more to it than that.

>>3232224
>er, no, it's simple DRAM

Oops I got FRAM confused with FPM DRAM. Still, it's better than the usual type of DRAM.

If it's not better than the Neo Geo, then what exactly did the Neo Geo use?

>at's just about what they did, but no more. What I meant was that they did not use tilemaps in a clever manner, they just used it to do whatever the Neogeo did to build backgrounds.

Tilemaps are inherently more conservative in their RAM usage. It's virtually impossible to convert backgrounds to tilemaps and not automatically save RAM.

>>3232228
>If it only had faster cache, then that would only help on games that took advantage of it

Not necessarily. The cache can come with a controller that automatically stores frequently accessed data. Upgrading CD-ROM speed can actually break compatibility on a console: see Fast Load mode on the PS2's backwards compatibility of PS1.

>>3231771
>RSG isn't "of the" most expensive. It's only what, $200 or so?

Yeah, around 200-250 USD for the game. How is that not among the most expensive import titles? Just because you can maybe name 10 more expensive (which is honestly debatable) that doesn't make it any less part of that not so big crowd of JP Saturn games that isn't cheap as shit.

>>3232134
How about looking at the picture. On the model 2 another wire was added for the LED, which is not on a normal Model 2 board. You really don't sound like an expert.

>>3232104
>>3232101
Yup, my US and JP model 1s were made in Taiwan. My JP Model 2 was made in Japan. The body does have some part differences, but the parts that were metal on the Model 1 being replaced with plastic parts isn't much of an issue. They're pretty sturdy. As for electrical differences, no one has provided evidence that the Model 1 is undeniably better.

>>3231764
I can't find any evidence that what you're saying is true, but I'll keep it in mind.

>>3231769
The game is worth like 2 bucks. Just go buy another.

>>3232378
>How is that not among the most expensive import titles?

Because it isn't among them. Not even the top 10, or top 20. It is one of the more expensive titles, yeah, but nowhere near among the most expensive.

>>3232390
http://www.satakore.com/sega-saturn-game,,T-10616G,,Soukyuu-Gurentai-JPN.html

T-10616G-P1K version 1.003
T-10616G-A-P1K version 2.000

The first version was said to randomly crash at some parts. I think the guy from segagagagadomain mentioned it.

And then there is the otokoyo version on top of that re-release.

Daytona USA CCE is fun and has some kickass music. Tempest 2000 isn't specific to the Saturn, but it's still a good game. Also Bomberman.

>>3232406
I don't even know why I said RSG. I was talking mostly about Elevator Action Returns. RSG is like 100-150. Still expensive, but EAR can go for double-ish. As for 20 JP games that go for more than that, Satakore rates EAR, Cotton, and Keio around the same price level at a rating of 4. Battle Garegga is only a 6. Since You can't search by rarity level, I really wonder what these other games are.

File: image.jpg (1MB, 3264x2448px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 3264x2448px

Don't mind me just playing pds on my rhea, finally got it figured out
Thanks Europe!

>>3232656
>Satakore rates EAR, Cotton, and Keio around the same price level at a rating of 4.

Keio 2 jap is worth around 100€ at most (I think I bought mine for 80€), Cotton 2 is 80-150€, RSG is 150-200€. EAR starts at 200€ and Cotton Boomerang at 250€ (if you are lucky). These are the average prices I see on ebay for them. I'm actually not that sure about EAR since I rarely check for that game, the other ones I either already own or are checking them often looking for a good deal.

I don't know what the price level rating at satakore is.

>>3232707
>RSG is 150-200€
>EAR starts at 200€
Both of those prices seem massively inflated. I've found RSG for (like I said) 100-150 USD, and EAR can be found for ~200-250 USD. Since you're using euro ducketts I can only assume Europeans somehow charge more for those games.

>>3232791
>I've found RSG for (like I said) 100-150 USD,

Where exactly?

>>3229180
Just an FYI, get Grade A stock Taiyo Yuden CD-R's, cheap Memorex & Verbatim shit wont cut it for the Saturn's older laser.

>>3229374
You can region patch with a simple utility before you burn or use your 4-in-1 cart's built in region patching.

>>3230071
On the official controllers they are supposed to be very clicky feeling, instant response. A lot of 3rd party pads have a mushy membrane feel like an SNES pad or an older PS2 pad for example. But controllers in good shape should have a clicky pop sound and no travel.

>>3232028
There was about 6 revisions of the Model 2 as well. Some people really talk out their ass on this subject. FWIW, I bought a Model 2 and the S-video is superb, never had a problem. I've compared it to a Model 1 and there isn't a difference. Model 2's are easier to work on in my opinion.

>>3232228
Disc/disk access cache would help in the same way our HDD's do today. It wouldn't need any software to take advantage of it; unlike RAM. But AFAIK, the CDZ drive was actually a supply thing. The manufacturer intended to put it in, but changed the spec back to 1x a the last minute due to an oversupply. I believe only the original 20,000 Jap units might have had the 2x drive.

>>3232028
>A lot of the chipsets are changed for the model 2 to cut costs.

A grand total of 3 of the chips were changed to cheaper parts.

>>3232859
You'll want to go with RGB. There are good mid-level converters for about 60 bucks that work great.

>>3232879
This.
Saturn has none of the built in anti-aliasing the N64 has, and RGB on a 1080p screen looks fucking incredible from the Saturn. I didn't know how good Saturn could look until I got the RGB cable for it.

>>3232859
>There was about 6 revisions of the Model 2 as well.

About 12, actually. Some of them even matched the hardware in model 1s.

>FWIW, I bought a Model 2 and the S-video is superb, never had a problem. I've compared it to a Model 1 and there isn't a difference.

A lot of problems in video output come from some of the filters getting used up. Just recently there was a guy who had quality issues and changed one of the EMI filters with an unused one and got way better video quality as a result.

>>3232891
>About 12, actually. Some of them even matched the hardware in model 1s.

I don't buy this.

>>3232905
Model 1s had VA0 to VA3.
Model 2s had VA2 to VA11, VA13, and VA15 (12 and 14 were skipped).

VA2 and 3 was in both models. Additionally, VA4 and 5 is nearly completely identical to VA2 and 3 (only 1 chip is different...).

Can confirm the Model 2 is shit.

Source ~ My ass

>>3232834
If you don't know, I sort of don't want to tell you. I don't actually own a copy myself, you see. Sorry about that. This isn't some secret place either, it's pretty huge. Also ebay has it for a little to a lot more depending on your luck.

>>3233019
>If you don't know, I sort of don't want to tell you.

OK, then you are full of bullshit. You may as well say that you can buy it for $5 if you can only back up your claim with kindergarden level arguments like that.

>>3228798
>>3229714
supporting this guy's post and also recommending:

saturn bomberman
bubble symphony
sonic jam
virtua fighter 2
thunder force V

>>3234067
He might be referring to yahoo Auctions japan.

I once read here that the Japanese Saturn isn't region locked, thus it can play US games. Is this true?

>>3234667
Then he is a moron, since middleman and shipping fees bump the price back up to average ebay levels.

>>3234697
>middleman fees
>high shipping costs
doing it wrong.

>>3232974
Same.

>>3235043
Not all of us live in Japan.

>>3231674
>Nice listing two of the most expensive import titles.
Does it even matter since playing backups is so easy? Radiant Silvergun is one of the Saturn essentials and should absolutely be pirated if you find it too expensive. Or if pirating gives you too much guilt, get it on XBLA. Despite a retarded scoring system it's a great shmup with impressive levels, bosses and soundtrack.

Elevator Action Returns is the essential version of a great game because MAME lacks the cool lighting effects, and Taito Legends 2 has noticeable input lag. Unless you can play the arcade original.

>>3235043
How do you import without going to Japan then?

File: readImage.jpg (27KB, 399x385px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 399x385px

>>3235061
>he doesn't live in Nihon

Nights
Darius Gaiden
Donpachi and DoDonpachi
Guardian Heroes
Sonic Jam
Radiant Silvergun
Most Capcom arcade ports, most of the later ones need a 4M cart: MSHvSF, XMvSF, Alpha/Zero 2 and 3, Pocket Fighter, Vampire Savior, DnD Collection, Xmen:COTA. But *not* MSH, that port is garbage.
Some NeoGeo ports: KOF97, Samurai Shodown, Real Bout Fatal Fury 1 and 2, Magical Drop 2 and 3. Waku Waku 7 seemed good when I played it on the Saturn years ago, but now when I play it the controls just feel crappy compared to playing it on an emulator.
Puyo Puyo Sun
Megaman 8 and X4
Virtua Fighter 2
Castlevania SOTN
Panzer Dragoon series

>Games that most Saturn fans like, but personally not my cup of tea
Burning Rangers
Clockwork Knight
Fighters Megamix

Since a lot of people here are saying you should put pseudosaturn on your AR, a question:

Can you do a swap trick with a NTSC game on a NTSC-J console? Somehow using the stock AR? Or does it need the NTSC-J specific code to work?

>>3237491

protip: the native population hates your fucking guts

>>3239182
You need the same region disk for swap trick to work. Swap trick is a shitty way to play backups, just patch your AR.

>>3239282
that's the idea, but I gotta swap to flash

>>3239282
Region doesn't matter for swapping, since you first put in the cdr to read the region, then swap to the original disc to read the security rings, then swap back to the cdr to boot it up. The cdr needs to be in a matching region though.

Or you can just get a modchip.

>>3239182
AR by default makes region not matter. Or you can just patch the game's region before you burn it.

>>3232041
Um I have Japanese model 1. The gray one. Am I ok?