>significantly inferior 3D graphics to PS1 >slightly better

They're making an awesome Sonic game, just wait and see.

>>3163345
>implying crash isn't the best 32-bit sonic game

Sonic just doesn't stand a chance this generation.

Everything you greentexted is misleading or conflates the wrong issues but that's okay because the technical comparisons are complicated. The reason you're retarded is because you're acting like the Saturn cost $100 more than the Playstation in perpetuity. It launched in May at $399 before PS had a price or release date and by November of the same year the Saturn dropped to $299 with VF Remix. Shit happens.

>So what exactly was the value proposition for buying a Sega Saturn over a PS1?

None. The Saturn was a design blunder.

Saturn is bad if you are in the 90's and you don't know about how pretty much every game stayed in japan.

>>3163336
>Implying Namco's arcade games aren't shitty ripoff of Sega's.

>>3163336
FMV and sound work just fine on my Saturn in fact it plays movies just peachy. You must be doing something wrong.

Saturn was hard to develop for but had better 3D capabilities than PS1.

Couldn't do this on the PS1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foZUcPQAMvg

You could do this on the Saturn though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jq9oCaYlBlE

>>3163429
Which ones do you think are ripoffs, anon? I'm interested.

Was just hopping on because I got a Saturn yesterday for pretty cheap, got it Action Replay modded and now wanna look into some of the gems, already beat Panzer Dragoon and am having fun with some Daytona, but now I'm looking for a platformer.. Clockwork Knight? anything else I should grab off this batch torrent?

>>3163457
I really don't see anything mindblowing from a purely technical standpoint. What Shenmue had however are exceptional production values and budget that would have probably surpassed anything released on the PS1.

But in the end, the best 3D games we've got on saturn are Burning Rangers, the Quake port and maybe Sega Rally. They look good, but nothing spectacular in comparison to what any moderately skilled devs could achieve on the PS1.

>>3163474
mr. bones, of course

What was the cartridge slot for? Was it backwards compatible with the Genesis?

>>3163503
Memory cards, RAM extensions, modems, action replay. One KOF even shipped with a ROM cartridge that contained part of its graphics. The console can even boots from the cartridge.

It's not compatible with the Genesis. It's also an unreliable piece of shit that requires tedious fiddling to get the cartridge recognized.

>>3163474
second for mr. bones

>>3163503
>Was it backwards compatible with the Genesis?
That would have been a great idea, unfourtunetly the saturn's pcb is such a huge clusterfuck of a design I doubt they could have pulled that off.

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I'm looking for some cute, lovely and cheerful Saturn recommendations. Something like Cotton 2 and Twinbee games. Any genre.
Any help is appreciated.

>>3163503
You know how the N64 had a swappable RAM cart?

Same deal.

>>3163336
>slightly better 2D than the PS1
>slightly

>>3163336
Brand recognition and eventual game library. Sony was a nobody in the video game industry when the playstation came.

In short, Sega and just about everyone else severely underestimated what the upstart Sony was able to pull out.

>>3163536
>That would have been a great idea, unfourtunetly the saturn's pcb is such a huge clusterfuck of a design I doubt they could have pulled that off.

They could've easily made a Genesis adapter that fit in there, though.

>>3163457
>Saturn was hard to develop for but had better 3D capabilities than PS1.

The PS1 GPU was something like four times faster than the Saturn VDP1, on top of having a lot more powerful feature set.

The only two things the Saturn did unquestionably better was anything the VDP2 did, and having a more powerful CD drive (including more CD cache).

Yeah, Saturn also had more memory, but it was ridiculously fragmented.

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That version of Alpha 3 tho

>>3163539
Keio Flying Squadron 2.

Die Hard Arcade son.

Enjoy your shitty slow ass beat em ups like Fighting Force or Crisis Beat

>inferior this inferior that, sales, performance, popularity blah blah blah
Wow I don't give a fuck

>>3163539
All the Parodius games, especially Sexy Parodius.

>>3163457
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Oh boy!
Saturnfags are seriously delusional

>>3163457
No wait, i see the video
You're not delusional, you're retarded!
Shenmue fo Saturn!

>>3163557
The Saturn need FUCKING CARTRIDGES for handle good 2D games.
Basic Saturn is really nothing special even for 2D

>>3163668
It was the best for 2D at the time by far.

ITT: Underageb& and the moderators that allow it.

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>>3163503

>>3163701
>CRUNCH
>CRUNCH

What did he mean by this?

>>3163336
>no proper transparency support
What does that even mean? Both Saturn VDPs could do transparency.

>>3163784
http://www.mattgreer.org/articles/sega-saturn-and-transparency/
Saturn could only do transparency correctly between a VDP1 sprite and a VDP2 playfield.

>>3163336

In answer to OPs actual question

>I'm just trying to understand why Sega thought people would want to buy one over the PS1

Sega games were very popular, brand recognition was high, and what choice did they have but to launch the Saturn? Trying to prolong the life of the Genesis with add-ons had failed (Sega CD, 32X) and the Genesis looked very dated in comparison to even the latest chip-enhanced SNES games.

People were crying out for "next gen" 32-bit games with 3D. Flawed as it was the Saturn was the only vehicle Sega had to try and capture that market. If they had waited until AFTER the PS1 had launched and come along with a superior machine, it would probably have been too late.

>>3163806

I should add that I owned a Saturn and, for me, it had the best library of games on any system available at the time.

>>3163336
> makes fun of Saturn
> calls psx ps1

Saturn's biggest mistake was it was designed for 2d which was way better than psx just compare how many effects were stripped out of ported titles. The problem was the 32x was built to extend the 2d Era because people were familiar with the chipsets. The Saturn should of been designed off of 3d arcutecture that were in their arcade cabs like psx with namco. Saturn is a great console it ran the first 3d console game vf at 60fps and had amazing games if you can speak japenese. Arguibly more games or equal to n64

>>3163336
Psx didn't have a 2d chipset it couldn't produce 2d graphics without using tris to make a plane to place a texture on

Everybody knows the saturn is a piece of shit, nobody is ever going to defends its execution.

Some pretty good games tho.

>>3163695
Sad it took long so long for a fellow oldfag to come along and point this out. This is 100% what-I-learned-about-console-wars-from-wikipedia the thread.

>>3164235
The sad part is there was barley a war. Closest thing being the Tomb Raider release.

>slightly better 2D than the PS1
More like demonstrably better. Enjoy your shit PS1 ports of SNK and CPS2 games nigger.

>no FMV decompression, cutscenes look grainy and pixelated compared to PS1

People here play games for gameplay, not to watch movies.

>no proper transparency support so many 2D and 3D graphics looks worse than PS1 (even the last generation SNES supported this)

True, but if you're playing on original hardware like you should and through composite, the chroma bleeding turns the dithered meshes into transparencies.

>no ADPCM sound decompression support so sound effects sound worse than PS1

You lying here nigger. Satrun games sounded way better than PS1 games. Games like the Lunar games and Grandia sounded way better than their PS1 ports, and more Saturn games had redbook audio than the PS1.

>>3163336
>no proper transparency support so many 2D and 3D graphics looks worse than PS1 (even the last generation SNES supported this)

The Saturn can do the exact same type of transparency as the SNES: background to background and background to sprite.

It can also do sprite-to-sprite on top, but it's pretty slow, so only a handful of games used it. The lasers in Panzer Dragoon 1 were like that.

>no ADPCM sound decompression support so sound effects sound worse than PS1 (even the last generation SNES supported this)

It can easily do it in software, for example the jingle the machine makes when you boot it up is already an ADPCM sample.

>>3163336
Maybe you should call sega in 1995 and find out what they were thinking.

>>3163804
>Saturn could only do transparency correctly between a VDP1 sprite and a VDP2 playfield.

It could do it correctly between polygons too. The shield in Sonic R was a transparent sprite, and so was the rainbow trail you got if you stepped on a booster. All the effects in Pandemonium are transparent polygons. Tama has transparent polygon windows, and Panzer Dragoon 1 has transparent laser beams.

There are three problems with it:
1. you get pixel overwrite artifacts if you use 4-point transformed quads (eg. anything that is not a rectangle). This is a small issue, you can't really see those artifacts on a CRT.
2. you need the quads to be in RGB format for transparency to work. This is a problem because it means you have less memory for textures, and the sprites won't be transparent with the backgrounds.
3. it is extremely slow to draw transparent sprites.

Transparency was also extremely slow on the Playstation by the way - but it had a gpu so fast that it could handle it fine.

>>3163336

People fell for the SEGA meme

But I am glad that my dad did fell for it. I have played the best version of Rayman, and one of the worst versions of Doom (depends how you look on it, entire game was slower, and with dark ambient music).

Also fucking Sky Target https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6WFyd6mzAM

Dude it wasn't like that back then. Sure now you can go on 20 different wiki sites and get every spec you need on the system, but people weren't hanging out in Toys R us saying that shit. The depth of technical knowledge of the consumer at the time was whatever they read in game mags (for the elite few) and whatever hear say they picked up in previous conversations (or for that matter COMMERCIALS i.e: Blast Processing).

Look, I'm in my 30's, I was there in the isle, at the arcades, in the game stores. Everyone knew sony was the best. Nintendo fans stuck by their system and had some stuff to say why. Anyone who owned a saturn did so because they were Sega guys before then. Kind of like someone who is used to Apple products will likely upgrade to apple. No one was counting frames or even talking about the shit in op's post. I only bought my saturn on the out, not because I didn't want one but because I got a ps1 and n64 first. you only got consoles for christmas back then

TL;DR Brand Loyalty. /thread

>>3164401
This.

The 16/32-bit console wars were far more dogmatic than anything you see these days.

You may think the xbox vs playstation wars are crazy, but I watched FISTFIGHTS erupt over SNES vs Genesis, and neither side had any ammunition more than "mario vs sonic". And don't even get me started on Playstation vs N64. People talking about number of bits as if they have any idea what that even meant. And most of them STILL don't know.

There's the Sega arcade games and the kinda-sorta-online. Read "Console Wars", it's all SOJ's fault.

>>3163539
Dragon Force was the main one for me. I still have it and my console.

>>3164662
The 5th gen console war, if it can truly be called that, was nothing compared to the 4th gen console war, which might as well have been a real war requiring UN intervention.

I wish I didn't skip out on the saturn, because I love the weird shit it was offering. I kind of regret missing early 3d console era because they had such weird cool ideas that we will never see funded by major party ever again.

I was in a primarily PC gaming household and god damn if you want any sort of risk free game design, pick any pc game from any era.

>>3164852
>All SOJs fault
>Evidence is stories from SOA

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i got a saturn for 25 bucks recently on ebay (listed as broken, cleaned it up, reseated cables, werks) and i gotta say, best console of the generation for sure. incredible controller, great library, and a lot of games that just held up better than a lot of the awkward early 3d stuff that was out on the PS1 and N64. plus you had sega's experience with arcades making for some incredible first party titles.

it had a bungled american release but if you like japanese style games, the saturn is one of the best, if not THE best, consoles out there. pictures don't even do the graphics justice, it's one of those things that you have to experience in motion on a crt tv to really get. there's just something really special about it.

>>3165953
also if you're into 2D games, this is basically the appeal of the neo geo for much cheaper. although that isn't saying much.

>>3163561
Bingo. Who are you more likely to buy a console from; the guys who make Sonic or the guys who make Walkmans?

Of course, by the time the PSX was out everyone was huge on it and Sega's lack of a true Sonic game and the blunders of the Sega CD and 32X had caught up with them. Mario 64 was already out and without a real Sonic game to compete, they shuffled off in defeat to the Dreamcast, a console that was too advanced for its time and too ambitious without enough support from third parties.

>>3163713
It's an eating sound effect. This is from the game where he's mega fat and gets cucked by his girlfriend

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>slightly poor family, living in Brazil
>shit's expensive, a bit of a PC gamer because games are cheap for some reason but want a console
>see Saturn, almost buy it
>decide last minute to get a PS1
>my dad tells a friend about it and he gets it chipped to play bootlegs
>mfw I play RE1 for the first time

In a parallel universe I quit gaming because of how miserable my experience was. Talk about dodged bullets...

>>3163806
The Sega CD wasn't meant to prolong the life of the Genesis. It was launched in 1991, just a few years after the console. It was meant to be a response to the PC-Engine/TurboGrafx CD, which it actually outsold worldwide. So in that sense, it wasn't a failure.

You can knock the 32x all you want. It was an unnecessary addition. But the CD was pretty well done.

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I just started collecting for the Saturn and I love it. Missed out on the system growing up but I have an affinity for sprites and 2D gaming so it's a perfect fit. Especially since I don't have a lot of time to play games so arcade style pick up and play suits me. The shumps are great, arcade ports, and the original titles are pretty good too. Dragon Force in particular impressed me.

What are some games I'm missing and need to check out(that aren't $500 like PD:Saga)?

>>3166342
>DVD boxes
>Long boxes stored sideways

>>3163336
>So what exactly was the value proposition for buying a Sega Saturn over a PS1?
>Sega Saturn over a PS1

In my experience it usually wasn't Saturn over a PS1, it was a Saturn in addition to a PS1. I only knew one person who had a Saturn but not a PS and he literally played nothing except 2D fighters.

Most people who got a Saturn were big enough into games that they were getting at least a PS1 as well. Sometimes an N64 too, but it usually seemed to be one or the other.

>>3166342
Clockwork Knight 2 is so much better than the first one. Astal is pretty great. Darius Gaiden shouldn't be too expensive and is really good as well. Earthworm Jim 2 on Saturn is gorgeous.

Guardian Heroes might be a penny, but is very worth it. Especially with friends.

>>3164245
The sad part is that people here think that being an adult means knowing all about an obscure video game system from 20+ years ago.

>>3166579
Some people were around when the Saturn was relevant, kiddo.

>>3166589
Whatever you say bud. I'll be there too soon enough but I doubt I'll be calling people kids for not knowing stupid shit like this. Or maybe I will.

>>3166604
Maybe you'll stop thinking people give a shit about your opinion of an era you weren't part of.

>>3166342
Same here anon, I'm loving its collection of shmups and RPG's.

>>3166579
>Nyaaaaaaaaaah muh first console was a 360 Nyaaaaaaah

>>3165941
Read it fagmo

There's direct quotes from how Japan felt insulted by how SoA was doing way better in terms of marketing and sales than SoJ.

This was further evidenced by how Sega distanced themselves from the book once it was released.

>>3166610
I'd like to think I wouldn't be such a petty immature faggot about the intricacies of a long forgotten console war. Grow up.

>>3166661
Some people appreciate video games. Your generation just shits on them.

>>3163840
>Psx didn't have a 2d chipset it couldn't produce 2d graphics without using tris to make a plane to place a texture on

Both PSX and Saturn draw sprites as single sided textured polygons. Saturn does have a 2D tilemap engine, but that's only for backgrounds, not sprites.

The irony is that because the PS1's polygonal GPU is so much faster than Saturn's, the PS1 is actually more capable at drawing sprites than the Saturn is. Saturn only wins in practice cause of more RAM and the background engine.

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>>3163539
Twinkle Star Sprites. Not nearly as pricey as cotton but still one of the more expensive games.

>>3163672
Have you seen Princess crown and the dozens of fighting and shooting games?

>>3163509
I fear the day I have to go into my saturns and disassemble all the boards just so that I can attempt to unfuck the cartridge slot. For now, I'm just keeping the working carts in and leaving them there.

This may seem a bit out of place, but I found this sega cable with some other stuff I bought and I have no idea what it is. It has a similar size to the Saturn System link/Taisen cable but it's not the same shape and I can't find any pictures of what might be 32x or CD cables so I have no idea.

cps-2 games but not in america

>>3167532
The problem with the cartridge slot is that it is very dense, which makes it extremely susceptible to dust.

Clean your carts and they'll work much more reliably. Wiping the pins on the slot by using an old credit cars or so will also help.

What is on the other end of that cable, or is it like that on both ends? I don't remember any Sega console hardware from the top of my head that used a cable looking like that on both ends.

>>3167602
Yeah it's like that on both ends.

I got it with some abused dreamcast and genesises (genesi?) and peripherals, but then there's this sega branded cable I've never seen and doesn't plug into any equipment I own, so I can only conclude it goes to something I don't have, but even segaretro isn't reliably getting me pictures of cables that can reliably hint at what this is.

Maybe I should go to a sega enthusiast forum or something to ask.

I also do clean my carts, it's the cleaning of the slot that's harder even with the system open.

>>3163460
Tekken -> Virtua Fighter
Ridge Racer -> Daytona USA
Time Crisis -> Virtua Cop

>>3167661
Maybe it's for the Neo Geo Pocket Color? I know that had a link cable to connect it with a Dreamcast.
Or I'm just a stupid ass who's way off.

>>3163336
It had built-in memory, the greatest boot screen animation and sound, and still the best "main menu" UI. Plus a ton of kickass games. Those are always a good reason for a system to be gotten.

>>3167602
Dense meaning many many small pins?

>>3168148
As much as I'd like it to be as cut and dry as that, I have US Genesis models 1 and 2, a US Saturn, US Dreamcast, and JP Saturn models 1 and 2 and none of these seem to have an input capable of taking this cable. It doesn't fit anywhere in the DC controllers or VMU, doesn't fit in the DC phazer, keyboard, or mouse and it appears Sega official.

I'm hesitant to think it's something really obscure since everything in the box was connected using the RF modulators rather than anything fancy, so it's hard to believe the previous owner would have had something interesting.

>>3167734
In all fairness, Ridge Racer eventually got better and we got GOAT racing games like R4. Time Crisis also got better in the 6th gen.

Tekken I agree was overrated trash. It peaked with 3, and got shittier and shittier, never matching VF's depth.

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>>3168427
I can't find a photo of the pins but looks like it's probably the Game Gear taisen cable.

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The Saturn had BULK SLASH

thats all you beed to be better than Playstation

Also best controller
Stopped collecting after was satisfied
Would kill for Cotton boomerang though

>>3168436
I prefer Daytona over Ridge Racer, but RR isn't bad. It's reputation got damaged by that dumb Kaz Hirai meme.

>>3168567
I couldn't find a pinside shot of it, but I'm guessing you're right because that seems to match the profile. Thanks, I wasn't even aware the game gear had multiplayer functionality, though I suppose that should have been obvious.

>>3168574
>Twinkle Star
I'll fucking get a copy one of these days. It's nice you curate your games to the more game-y stuff. I actually like playing dating sims and the odd visual novel-esque thing so I'm compelled to dig a little closer to the bottom of the barrel. Also nice Greatest Idol Limited album. When the PVC figure of the cover art is released I'll be displaying it with mine.

>>3165969
>implying the useless timesink of gaming wouldn't have been the better bullet to dodge

>Modded Sega Saturn
>SCART to HDMI adapter for 720p

Anyone else playing Saturn the right way?

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>>3170767
>Anyone else playing Saturn the right way?
I think I am but I could be wrong.

Do you faggots ever play games or just argue about the same shit we've all heard for years and years.

>>3170943
Do you actually read threads or do you just shitpost because you think you're entitled enough to do that?

>>3163336
>What's the value of a Saturn over PSX?

It doesn't go as well with a hipster moustache. It also has Virtua Fighter 2.