I've been thinking, did the fifth generation of consoles

Pacman World, Crash and its clones, Rayman 2...

I agree, collectathons were their own thing.

>>3137873
Tonic trouble for the N64 is an underrated platformer.

>>3137873
Super Mario Land 1 and 2 not 64

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>>3137905
>Super Mario Land 1 and 2
>3D platformers

Crash Bandicoot is literally a 3D platformer. The definition of 3D platformer became broader during the 5th generation but yes there are plenty of them in the 5th gen.

Man, DK64 sucked.

>>3137873
Mario 64 gameplay is all about doing maneuvers with your jumps so that definitely counts.

Tomb raider counts too

>>3137873
Platforming just means jumping on a platform.

>>3137939
No, that's an extra. You don't need any fancy parkour to beat the game and pretty sure Nintendo didn't even consider all the crazy shit proplayers constantly pull off.

>>3137937
It was ok. A big disappointment after the epic trilogy that it came from, though.

the 5th gen has the best 3d platformers ever made.

>>3137937
Ive tried playing it again a few times in the past few months. I just cant get past the 10 minute intro. Ended up playing DKC2 instead each time.

>>3137873
Just because you don't like collectathons doesn't mean they're not a subgenre of 3D platformer.

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>>3137971
Like Prince of Persia Sands of Time or Maximo?

>>3137935

No, Crash Bandicoot is a corridor simulator.

Jumping Flash is a real 3D platformer.

>>3138043
I just recently bought the game and you can skip the intro.

>>3137932
You can sort of turn around and tilt the GB this way and that while you play. It was 3D as fuck

>>3138654
:^)

>>3138654
>No, Crash Bandicoot is a corridor simulator.
all 2D platformers are corridor simulators. Crash just added you the ability of Z-direction in addition to XY because it can.

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>>3137950
But you're bending the definition of a 3D platformer stablished in OP now.

You don't need crazy optimization maneuvers to beat the game but, though the Bowser levels were the only linear platforming gauntlets in the game, jump control and timing is the central element of the gameplay.

Most of the level design looks pretty abstract too, to accommodate the variety of dynamic platforming setups that are the focus of the game, and not the other way around like later games in which the core idea is to have interesting locations to look at while you try to 101% that shit.

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>>3137937
I never owned it, but I have played it extensively with friends. When it first came out I sort of thought it was like, a gimmick release for the n64 booster.

>>3137873
>A good majority of them, at least the ones on the N64, were more like 3D exploration games/scavenger hunts.
That's because platforming games don't work in 3D. Nintendo realised this (and altered Mario 64's mechanics significantly), while Sega didn't (which is why all the 3D Sonics are terrible).

After that, basically every remotely playable 3D platformer modelled itself on Mario 64 (Banjo, Spyro, etc).

What about Croc? You could just head to the goal of each stage, but you could also find things in each stage to give you access to more not-required levels.

>>3138730
Fun(ny) fact: the only reason DK64 requires the expansion pack is because there was a game-breaking bug that Rare didn't know how to fix, yet the expansion pack seemed to fix it just fine. That's not what marketing told you, though.

>>3137873
Terrible bait.

>>3138959
That phrasing kind of suggest the boost didn't do anything *except* preventing the game from breaking. The game did use the extra memory; they simply made it not optional.

>>3138959
Actually that just explains why the game is Expansion Pak only.

They were originally going for two modes and they canned the unexpanded mode due to the bug.

>>3137873
Didn't the N64 have Mischief Makers, the greatest platform ever?

>>3139091
Yes, but that's a 2D platformer.

>>3138981
/vr/ gets baited by literally anything to be honest

>>3138991
yeah I hate that stupid myth. What actually happened was this the high-rez mode worked fine, they were not able to get the low-rez mode working. But then people wouldn't be able to go around with their "did you know" story. There's a real lack of caring about accuracy in the videogame community, including by youtube creators and people writing articles who make half these myths to gain attention.

>>3139302
>high-rez mode worked fine, they were not able to get the low-rez mode working.
1 that's the fucking definition of a bug you moron
2 the info came from chris seavor himself not some youtube celeb

>>3139302
It ironically proves exactly the opposite of what they think it proves. Nintendo could have said that "this won't work without the expansion pak" from the start and never tried it. But they actually tried desperately to fit a version of it on to work without the expansion pak and it ended up a failure because it was too big.

>>3139321
>1 that's the fucking definition of a bug you moron
Haha, no it's not shithead. Try harder before you talk to me again.

>2 the info came from chris seavor himself not some youtube celeb
I know what he said.

Just to be clear I am both this guy >>3139302 and this guy >>3139323

>>3139329
Why the fuck else couldn't they get it to work if not for a bug?

>>3138707

Crash doesn't have momentum, all enemies are beaten by mashing a button to spin like the tazmanian devil. Jumping only requires to to press jump and forward, you don't have to calculate anything.
It's a mindless corridor experience, oh and also it has collecthaton elements, the gems.

>>3139343
What about slide jumping.

>>3139339
This isn't remedial introduction to computer basics, now fuck off.

>>3139323
>because it was too big.

Nah, I don't think so. Simply too big is easy to fix. Just load less into your scene.

What probably happened is that there was a bug in DK64's dynamic memory stack.

The N64's RDRAM has really high random access latency but great linear read bandwidth, so to optimize performance you want all the stuff you are going to load in memory to be put in linear order up the memory address.

Of course because you can't just dump the RAM completely and reload all the data every time the player does something, you need to dynamically stack and garbage collect the memory as the player goes through the game loading/deloading shit as needed. This is exactly what Rare developed for Banjo-Kazooie.

In getting DK64 ready they probably created an advance version of this dynamic memory stacker that had a bug somewhere in which it probably had memory corruption due to a bad overwrite caused by a lack of space. The stacker probably only worked when there was a bit of unallocated memory on the end of the RAM stack, which is what you got with the extra RAM.

Something like that, I have no idea how it actually works but this is my guess.

>>3139360
I'm gonna resort to calling you nigger. Nigger Nigger Nigger Nigger

>>3139361
>Nah, I don't think so. Simply too big is easy to fix. Just load less into your scene.
wtf are you talking about? And have popup all over the place on a N64 game? A large and complicated game is harder to get working right than a small and easy game period.

btw I never said or suggested it was not a bug and I never would suggest that since it was my understanding this is what the creator himself said. It was that other ridiculous poster that out of nowhere implied I said that and then claimed a bug and not being able to work were the same thing.

>>3139428
>And have popup all over the place on a N64 game?

It already has some pop-up. Obviously the backgrounds are always rendered unlike many other games but certain details fade in as you get closer.

But that's actually not due to those things not being in the RAM. It's to ease the load on the GPU.

Pop-up is almost never actually due to things being unable to fit in RAM.

no need to split hairs, faggots

I'm surprised no one has called out OP on his "no true Scotsman" argument yet. A platformer is a game in which you need to make skilled jumps in order to reach a goal, whether that be getting a star, collecting notes, or reaching the end of a level. Not to say that N64 platformers didn't incorporate elements of exploration and collection into their games (especially in Rare's case), but these games are platformers first and foremost. I don't know anyone outside of /vr/ that wouldn't classify Banjo Kazooie or DK64 (let alone Super Mario 64) as a platformer

>>3139637
Most of the traversal in DK64 doesn't involve jumping at all, the worlds are just huge and flat.

>>3139741
eh... I wouldn't say that. That's different is the worlds look and are more natural, they're open world. Different to Crash Bandicoot or Rayman or Sonic games where it's basically 2D level design morphed into a linear 3D one. Don't get me wrong both can be good, but I prefer the open world. They're harder to get into, but imo it's worth it as it's a better experience once you know the levels, rather than being shuttled along one place to another.

>>3138959
That's funny, because the game ended up being laughably broken anyway:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LscZrRhH6B4

>>3137873
>games where you obviously jump on platforms
>"are these actually platfomers?"
Gee I wonder, I guess collecting stuff somehow makes it a different genre.

>>3140373
Assasins Creed confirmed as a platformer.

>>3141041
Assassin's Creed has platforming, but it's largely automated and the meat of the gameplay is more focused around combat and stealth. Collectathons are literally 95% platforming, sometimes with a hint of puzzle/adventure, but mostly just platforming. The shit they give you to collect is literally just an incentive to do more platforming.

>>3139637
To be fair, you don't need to do a lot of /accurate/ platforming in Banjo-Kazooie. The game's extremely forgiving in that regard.

Rayman 2 does require it to a greater extent, though it's still relatively forgiving.

And Mario 64... enjoy being tossed out of the level for mistiming a jump, rather than being able to fix it on the spot by using the fucking bird or restarting at the save point you reached five seconds ago with barely any HP lost.

BK also requires you to... solve 'puzzles' (as in, hitting random letters and such) to get a fair few prices, while Rayman 2 is basically just about getting from one end to the other and you get the collectibles as an aside, and Mario 64 actually requires platforming to get to the stars.

All in all, BK certainly has the least platforming elements out of those three. Whether that actually makes it not a platformer is somewhat debatable - 'least' doesn't mean 'none' - but it's pretty much skirting the line.

And it's easy to see why - Mario 64 and Rayman 2 were both planned as platformers from the start, they succeeding preceding games that were likewise platformers.

BK... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w72kj20YNA0
... started as an RPG project that eventually morphed into something different. Hence the greater focus on exploration and characterisation, on getting a certain mood across (which it does VERY well. The castle and Grunty are brilliantly done). The platforming on the other hand is... well, tacked on as an afterthought. And it shows.