Why do you think older games are better? What could newer games

because I'm old and shitty
so I prefer old shitty games like myself

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But I like newer games. Bayonetta 1 and 2 are some of my favorite games ever.

Not cater to casuals. So nothing really.

Can't even name a non Nintendo AAA game that didn't have DLC within the first week released in like the past 10 years.

Challenge
Replay value

>>2855117
Games now are made for this gen kids
so a lot of shooters and bloody games

Challenge and reward
Color
Imagination

I do like some new games, but even the new games I like are retro in design philosophy. Like The Souls games and most of Platinum's stuff (especially The Wonderful 101).

Challenge and the satisfaction of overcoming that challenge are what I love about old game and I think that's been lost in favor of pursuing a more casual market.

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>>2855117
Stop ripping off older games and claiming originality/hiding behind the words "inspiration" and "homage".

Newer games focus too much on creating a cinematic experience. I prefer more emphasis on gameplay.

Although retro games weren't very long unless they were RPGs, the developers could pad the game's length out with grinding or raw difficulty, which made getting from point A to point B seem more rewarding. These days, it just feels like I'm participating in an interactive film.

>games will never be everything you want and more
I can't wait for a game I actually enjoy playing to blow me out of the fucking water though

>>2855147
undertale, and that's just a popular example off the top of my head

>>2855165
>>2855182

This, all of this.

>>2855184
I can only name two games in the last five years that did that for me, and they're two personal faves. But sadly it's very rare for a cool game to come out nowadays where it's much easier to find them in retro libraries. And it's not just because time has helped the cream rise to the top, it's just more numerous. Part of that is shorter dev cycles, part of that is less financial pressure, part of that is less established ideas, less 'right' ways of doing things.

>>2855117

Bring back good 3D platformers, both old and new IPs.

>>2855198
>undertale, and that's just a popular example off the top of my head
How is that AAA?

>>2855117
Older games are better for the simple fact it's easier to weed out the bullshit
Really the only difference between now and then is they've found new ways to utterly milk the consumer through DLC bullshit. Gimmicks both good and bad run rampant throughout games, tie-in cash-ins still exist though you're generally going to get a shit game compared to older games which could go either way and bad design has always existed though it shouldn't now with all people have learned

I don't mind newer games so long as they're not hand-hold-y bullshit or you-get-a-gold-star!! (IE "achievements") bullshit. I don't even mind rail-gaming all that much because I find sequence breaking pretty fun, just don't have the gameplay revolve around 'HEY! Listen!!!" then explicitly tell me exactly what I need to do in minute detail and we're golden. That fucking tree in the "Oracle of X" Zelda games is the goddamn worst.

I prefer more arcade-style play, which is simply dying out nowadays, and sandbox games that still have a point to them. And I hate this 20-odd year thing now of RPGs where everyone can do everything that everyone else can do. Fucking hate it.

>>2855117
>Why do you think older games are better?
I don't, I enjoy newer games just as much as retro stuff.

>>2855117
>What could newer games do or not do to make you like them again?
They'd need to be high-budget 2D games on the scale of Chrono Tigger or Link to the Past, released on non-copyprotected physical media, and not require the internet.

Less focus on spectacle and the feeling that you're "at a theme park." If the gameplay isn't sufficiently entertaining it's not a good game, it's a movie with small bits of interaction.

Few things make me madder about a game than being teased about big fights that never happen or have to be handwaved. You can mix things in and not completely ruin the game but I think it is the heart of many shitty design decisions. Fuck's sake, who didn't want to fight the Songbird in Bioshock Infinite?! Compare that to something like Demon's Crest where a great part of the spectacle is dynamic, interesting, climatic bosses! It can be fun to fight mooks but I feel like an error was made if there are never any notable bosses, just bigger waves of slightly more elite mooks.

Less design ripped straight from MMOs. There's a fine degree of difference. Take a game like Orcs Must Die, in which I'll happily replay levels to get higher scores or the endless mode to see how far I can go on a new trap set-up. That is fun! Something like Fallout 4 with the repeatable quests... what a waste!

Speaking of Fallout 4, don't tell me something is important in game and then don't actually tie it into anything else that happens. Settlements are a good idea for fun and modders but I very quickly picked up that there was little benefit outside of the roleplaying in my head to actually defend or even support them.

One of my favorite retro game designs is Legend of the Mystical Ninja, which had mini-games down to a beautiful art form. I was often more excited to visit towns than new dungeons because the mini-games were so good, you had fun and got money to help you in the main game too. And of course it did tight stages that capped off with huge fun boss fights.

>>2855117
Because I'm an underage hoping it will give me cred

>>2855146
She is hot. But she reminds me to much of Sarah Palin

>>2855117
All I know is that I really want to play Ghost Trick again, now.

Challenge is a big one. And not just punishing enemies/bosses, those are still around more or less. The bigger problem in modern games is how much they fear making the player lose progress. When's the last time a game made you repeat a whole lengthy level if you died at a boss? That stuff is absent in modern games aside from very niche genres like shmups. Even indie retro throwbacks have checkpoint every screen.

Another thing which I miss is focus. Variety and lots of throw away gimmicks/mechanics are nice and all, but it's great to have a game that just focuses on one specific thing and does it very well. The repetition won't be a problem if there's challenge and depth.

>>2855117
Just dial the scale down a bit. Not everything has to be a cinematic emotional roller coaster. I just want fun game mechanics at the end of the day.

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>>2855313

only if she's using the beehive hair, on Bayonetta 2 she doesn't look like Palin anymore

I'd still bone Sarah Palin though

>>2855313
>Because I'm an underage hoping it will give me cred

In youtube that kind of thing works. In music specially.

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>>2855146

samefag here, I'm crying tears of joy right now

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>>2855619
>on Bayonetta 2 she doesn't look like Palin anymore

One more reason why Bayonetta 2 sucks.

>>2855117
I wish newer games used more imagination. Everything has to be a gritty realistic psychological thriller nowadays. There should be a place for more whimsy and fantasy. This of course affects other areas of gaming as well, putting realism above diversity of gameplay forms (can't make a gritty psychological game about war or zombies a platformer nowadays...or anything but a shooter). Sadly only Nintendo (not a console warrior; I've stopped following the industry in 2008, but you know that to be true) and indie developers do something in that regard these days.

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>>2857037

>one more reason

what other reasons are there? console wars?

also, you can still unlock the classic Bayo costume with the beehive hair on Bayo 2.
still Short hair > long hair

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For me, it's about the Polish. I find the SNES to be the most graphically beautiful system. It improved so much upon the NES without uprooting the basics. These days the hyper-realism is the norm and I find most games to be hideous. The gameplay was more straightforward, and idk, more genuine feeling. Just my 2 cents

>>2856990
NintendAwesome

and THIS is how you do DLC the RIGHT WAY! Leave it to Nintendo to school crappy companies like EA, Activision and Ubisoft how you do DLC RIGHT at the RIGHT Price and more content then LOYAL fans could ever dream of!

>posted in IGN comments section 2015-12-15

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>>2857097

hilarious

what are you doing reading IGN though? and comments, of all things.

I don't think old games are better.

Good games are good, regardless of when they came out. Limiting yourself to just new games or just old games seems silly.

Although I do think that some older games have a bit more imagination, creativity, more games that don't have formulaic mechanics.

But I would say if there's anything modern games have that older ones don't it's mechanical refinements.

Occasionally the two manage to meet in a single game. It's been mentioned in the thread, but Bayonetta is a fantastic example of this. Unfortunately, a lot of publishers these days just don't want to take risks. They play it safe, using stuff they know works.

There is a benefit to making iterations on a formula over time, but every now and then you need something that's totally different to shake things up and explore new territory.

>>2856990
>never played Bayonetta
I have another reason now.

>>2857059
They make games to be fun, and Indie developers aren't bound to making games that are the bastard children of focus groups.

There's nothing wrong with gritty games, or thrillers, I'm sure there was a time when they were greatly wanted or whatever, but too many games want to be a thriller or cinematic.

>>2855117
Advantage of older games:
Games were released complete, no dlc, no paying to unlock what's already on there. There was less money and tech needed to develop games. In turn, a larger variety of games and companies were able to hit the market. Games weren't dumbed down, you had to get good, no hand holding.

>>2855147 >>2855253 >>2857097 >>2857368
I'm old, crotchety and out of touch with literally all gaming that isn't /vr/. As such, I need it answered: what in the fuck is DLC and why is it bad?
From what I've gathered, it's something you pay for out of pocket but beyond that, I've not a clue.

>>2855227
missed the AAA part, sorry

>>2857460
Not all DLC is bad. DLC stands for downloadable content, which is content for a game that you download.

Ideally, DLC is more content for a game. Think of buying a pizza and then buying a side of wings. You pay for a little extra stuff. This is good.

What can happen though is you get DLC that's overpriced and not really worth it. Or DLC is already on the game disc, ready to go, but you have to essentially buy a key to unlock it. That's bad DLC.

There are also suspicions of developers purposefully cutting content or holding back content in order to have DLC, but naturally, that sort of thing is hard to prove.

A good example of DLC can be seen in Fallout 3. You get new areas to explore, new armors, new weapons, new quests to do, generally several hours worth of additional content for a reasonable price. Also, the base game had a very underwhelming ending, and they made a DLC that gave players something much more satisfying.

Bad DLC can be seen in The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, where you pay a ridiculous amount of money to have armor for your horse. And that's it.

Good DLC can really enhance a game. Fallout 3 without DLC and with DLC might as well be two different games. But it can bog a game down as well, or leave you feeling unsatisfied if you don't get the DLC.

>>2857460
DLC is short for DownLoadable Content. It's stuff that's added onto the game disk you buy through additional downloads.

Typically, this means additional purchases. What makes people salty is that DLC is often not free, it's often announced and/or released very close to the announcement/release date for the game itself, and sometimes it's even just paying for an unlock code to something that is on the disk in the first place. Very few games have used it well and more often it's been a cheap abuse to nickle and dime the players.

>>2857501
It's also worth mentioning in my Fallout 3 example, they eventually released a version of the game that just had all of the DLC with it for a normal price.

This is also a good thing that I feel more publishers really need to do. Because some DLC exists only digitally, so I can imagine years from now, some DLC just being impossible to get.

>>2857521 >>2857502 >>2857501
That sounds just ghastly. Truly horrible. What happens when the server that carries that DLC goes down permanently? You paid for something that you can never have again if you happen to change computers or your HD fails? This is why I never got the whole point of Virtual Console, PSN and Xbox Arcade: if your shit fails for some reason, you've lost all those roms and all your saves forever and ever and are out $X.

>>2857538
It's a risk that just comes with the territory. Digital sounds bad all around, but it has it's perks.

Biggest one is that publishers don't have to pay manufacturing costs. This keeps the price pretty low, and they're able to use ideas that may otherwise be too risky in a big game.

It also allows provides an avenue for smaller developers to get their games out there.

Yeah, you do run the risk of that happening, but a lot of great games and such have come about because digital distribution is a thing.

Also, the big guys in the industry are finally starting to recognize this as a problem and are working towards making digital shit a little bit more permanent.

>>2857501
>Oblivion, where you pay a ridiculous amount of money to have armor for your horse

Non-functional armor, at that.

>>2856990
>muh epic dominatrix meme
I like some new games as well but you have pretty shit taste, anon.

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>>2858027

No problem there, anon. Tastes are subjective, and I bet I'd think your taste is pretty shit too, so we're even.

>>2855117
Besides the progressive casualization of modern games, i think older games are better, or at least will always have more charm and enjoyabilit, not only because of the focus on gameplay and story (modern stories are, like other anons said before, cinematic experiences, but of bad, boring stories), but because in many cases, it was the first time you ever witnessed something like that in a game, and you'll never surpass that sensation.
It´s like old movies inb4 Star Wars, fucking starwars fan, get the fuck out

>>2857568
>Digital sounds bad all around
Digital is fine, the CD was just a transport mechanism anyway. DRM'd digital is the fuckery. When you can't play without the CD or the remote server in place, that's when things get fucked up, and we must prevent that. My choice is simple. I don't play games requiring these things. That means a lot of old games, and the occasional modern indie game. Occasional, because many indies are so ridiculously obsessed with piracy, they buy into Steam and other platforms, which means they won't see a dime from me.

>>2858315

Not to mention Steam games are pirated with the speed of sound too, no real protection.

>>2857568
>This keeps the price pretty low
lol

>>2857092
>These days the hyper-realism is the norm
They always aimed to the hyperrealism.

>>2857501
>>2857502
>>2857521
What's the difference between expansion packs and DLCs? Or DLC is just a modern name for expansion pack?

>>2855147
Nintendo does that DLC shit now too

>>2855283
But anon, bosses are too gamey!

>>2859416
DLCs are exactly like expansion packs if expansion packs didn't really expand anything.

>>2859416
Technically speaking, there isn't a difference.

In practice, not all DLC really adds much to the game.

>>2859413
But that impulse was checked by technological limitations.

>>2859416
in the literal sense, DLC is downloaded. in practice theyre actually quite different

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>>2855117
My favorite genre has always been 2D platformers.
But modern platformers tend to fall in one of the following pits...

* Hyper difficulty but infinite tries. Just brute force your way through.

* Slow paced puzzle crap. The puzzles are usually piss easy. What we end up with is just a slow boring platformer.

* Uses way too many buttons. I know I might sound retarded, but I miss the good old NES days where you just had two buttons. Or C64 where you had freaking ONE button.

* Everything being physics based. Every jump and object is dependent on chaos theory. In old games you knew exactly how things would react. Everything was just so neat and tight! Now everything is so random.

* Some sort of gating to make you replay certain parts. Rayman Legends was pretty good until I realized I had to basically play every level so far again to collect enough Weenies to unlock the next levels. Don't let me run through the level if collecting those is a requirement to progress!

* And then we have stagnating turds like the New SMB series. I thought Nintendo was supposed to be the innovative company? The worst part about those is that they don't know if they want to be a retro or modern game. Why do they still operate with lives when you have infinite continues and points doesn't matter?

Pic related. It's one of the good modern platformers.
Shovelknight was good too.
And Giana Sisters DS
Luckily there are still lot's of good ones being made. I guess I'm good.

>>2855283
FO4 also has broken shit with settlements, i completely blocked off a town and guys were still getting in, found out later they somehow were teleporting past my walls

solved that by just making a huge ring of turrets

>>2855619
yeah, part 2 reminds me of my aunt.
she has her hair like that and wears glasses too.

>>2860606
Cave Story is 11 years old.

>>2860628

post pics of your aunt please

When the 8-bit indie developers start making 16-bit inspired games. Or are the artists just not that good? I don't get it.

>>2859337
he is right, dumbass.
or were you not old enough to remember expansion packs for PC games being like 30-40 bucks each? same concept, but more expensive.

>>2860634
i don't have any and she doesn't do facebook, but imagine a women in her mid forties with bayo 2's hair and glasses, not as tall, but a well kept figure

>>2860641

my dick is diamonds anon

>>2855117
If they would sell newer games for $3 at Pawn shops.

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>>2860629
Has it really been so long!

Yet, it's still what I would call a modern game.

>>2857501

Oblivion probably wasn't the best example. The horse armour was a terrible idea and I don't know why anyone would even buy it. But the shivvering isles dlc was amazing and basically like an old school expansion pack.

>>2860783
Well the price point for Shivering Isles was also higher than anything else at the time, and even today $30 for an expansion when everyone else is doing almost at much content for $10 is still a tough sell.

The fact that you can get the GOTY edition (vanilla + SI + KotN) for $10-$15 and they still want $30 for just Shivering Isles as late as last year (maybe even still) is retarded - do they honestly not know that even DLC goes on sale sometimes?

>>2860641

So Sarah Palin?

>>2860758
I was just at a pawn shop a few hours ago. Almost none of their PS2 games were over $10. $5-7 was the average.

>>2860813
>when everyone else is doing almost at much content for $10
>content
I've started to loathe that word. It's so meaningless in the context of games. It disguises the quality of the material and just coats it all with claims of quantity. I'd rather have few good and useful additions to a game, than "much content"

>>2860815

Palin doesn't have a pixie cut

>>2860816
but they were all shit, weren't they?
that is the fucking thing man.