It's fun to hate on gen 7 but let's talk about the

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>>33559729
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>>33559729
No. Let me, on behalf of everyone else, state that it is NOT fun to hate on gen 7. We'd all like gen 7 to be good, but the fact is, it's just not.

I unironically enjoyed the streamlined route design. I am peeved about stuff like the lack of the cave interior, extra areas are always nice, but I like extra areas that are simple to navigate, and are mostly there for show and atmosphere. I like exploration, but I don't like that exploration to be tedious.

>>33559749
>the cave interior
Fuck I worded this wrong, I meant the volcano cave before the Fire Trial, meant to say "volcano interior"

>>33559744
exactly I don't want to hate on a Pokemon. I would love to praise it. but I will never be in denial about a video game. Sun and moon are trash.

>>33559764
So are x and y and oras what's been him with pokemon lately?

>>33559779
No. Gen 6 is bad too, just not AS bad as gen 7.

I liked PokePelago too, and the soundtrack is great and a return to form.

>>33559749
>I like exploration
You clearly don't. You like being sold the idea of exploration through audio/visual presentation, the feeling that you are going on an adventure, when in fact you are essentially walking down a corridor when it comes to the actual interactive game.

>>33559779
who knows. seems like gamefreak scared of losing kids to mobile gaming and making games with that mind. instead of more content. it's railroading them to the finish

>>33559798
I like it that way because I don't think navigation should be the part of the game that's difficult. I have other games to play when that's what I want. I think it works better in other games than in Pokemon.

The mixture of bait and honest opinions in this thread is impossible to tell apart at this point
I like new regions solely based on the Dex alone and Alola has a good Dex imo

>>33559798
The soundtrack is actually terrible. Honestly speaking, the only good track was Welcome to Alola, and if as much work was put into the games as was obviously put into that track, the games would be a lot better than they are.

>>33559810
Literally one of the core points of the game was exploration!! Navigation SHOULD be part of it. Half holding is bad!!

>>33559811
>70 new mons
>Not even 80
>all slow
Yeah, great dex.

>>33559827
The game should HAVE navigation, but it should be relaxing and chill. It's what goes in between the battles. From a design and pacing standpoint, I think that having the routes between areas be aesthetically pleasing and simple to go through is the best way to do it. I'm avoiding the word "comfy" because at this point it's nothing but a buzzword, but yeah, route exploration should be comfy.

>>33559729
I like that they let Hapu use 4 mons despite no gym leader having more than 3 the last two generation.
Same with E4 members, 5 instead of 4.
I thought the Ultra Beasts were neat, only problem was how you catch them and it seems like USUM is changing that.
Maybe acontroversal opinion, but I liked the level curve increasing exponentially. Without the Exp Share, by the time you get to Poni you're going to be underleveled for the rest of the game, which is great.
I liked the size of the dex, good selection without being bloated, could use some better distribution on Poni.
Alolan variants were a great concept.

>>33559729

What I really liked:
-Pokeride (It will hurt when they will cut it in the next games)
-Pokepelago
-Alola forms
-Islands map
-Po Town
-Gladion character
-3/4 of new pokemon

The problem is that the rest is garbage, so it's difficult say if SM are good or bad games, they are split between extremely good and extreemely bad features.

>>33559827
The game completely failed in the exploration department in my opinion.
It was very rare for me to feel like I was actually exploring unknown territory, it felt more like I was on a guided tour through Alola.

>>33559729
>gets rid of HMs
>most new Mons are creative and different, albeit many are gimmicky
>story and characters were actually interesting (for Pokemon at least)
>alolan pokemon were a cool concept if not the most well executed
>trials are a really cool change of pace, though again... could have been executed a little better
>i love ultra beasts. very nice change of pace and just livens things up with an entirely new flavor
>guzma and team skull
>pelago was a fantastic addition
>various minor quality of life changes were appreciated
>the region itself was a nice design, if not particularly well balanced or paced

Overall I really liked them, but there were a lot of gripes I had with them as well. I think the best way to put SM for me is unrealized potential? So many good ideas that just didn't go far enough or should have been done differently.

>>33559729
I liked almost every idea I saw, from Alolan forms to Ultra Beaststo Team Skull. The disappointing part was the execution of these ideas. Ultra Space being just a room? Really?

>>33559856
Wrong. There should be a level of "navi" to prevent getting too lost, but places between cities should never be simple. That's exactly what made gen 7 bad, in that are. All the routes are straightforward, and exploration and finding secrets is impossible, because everything is pointed out to you. It's crap. Even gen 6 had some secret stuff, but gen 7? The only semi secret thing is the lake of (insert opposite game title), and that's not even secret. Getting from one place to another SHOULD be a challenge, it's a core feature that makes the games good, because you have to work for it, and feel accomplished when you succeed.

>>33559895
Exactly my point.

>>33559896
I'd love to play the game you played, or smoke whatever you smoked when you played.

>>33559899
Team Skull was stupid af. They look, speak, and overall feel, like some crappy evil team OC made by some backboard fatty.

>>33559931
Nothing he writes is that wrong. SM having a lot of good ideas but failing the execution on many of them is a pretty common opinion here.

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>>33559831
>Only thing that matters is competitive

>>33559938
The entire point of them is to be a parody of previous villain teams, since most Evil Teams are goofy as fuck but the game tries to make you take them seriously. Most Evil Teams are also absolute shit in battle (especially Grunts) and Team Skull makes that make sense.

>>33559915
I'm not saying there shouldn't be any secrets. There SHOULD be more exploration off the main path. But my point is just that, difficult and complex route design should be off the main path. I'd rather be able to get through the main path with ease, and have the opportunity to be rewarded with something more if I decide to take a detour. However I'd take what Gen 7 gave over how previous games handled it. I'm just saying why I liked what they did, I never meant to imply they couldn't have done better.

>>33559729
No. The Poké Pelago sucks. All the things you can get from it should have been locked behind minigame content a la Pokéathlon, not arbitrary wait times. Pelago plays itself for you.

>>33559956
I don't get why you don't prefer gen VI level design then?
Most of the routes and caves in Kalos too are pretty straight forward, but on the other hand there are some neat detours and secrets.

>>33559729
Mon designs were generally awesome
Good OST
Likeable characters (except for LILLIE)
'send to box, add to party' options, visible IVs
N o HMs
Alolan forms
UBs

>>33560006
Why does everyone hate Lillie? Am I the only one who genuinely likes her?

>>33559951
Who mentioned competitive? When you can beat the whole game with a Shimon from gen 1, the new sex is shit.

>>33559968
I liked Gen VI's route design a lot, but I felt like it stacked up poorly next to the rest of the game. My ideal formula is, when following the main path, navigation is simpler while main story battles in between are more difficult, while going off the main path should offer the more complex exploration.
Gen 6's battles were so much easier in comparison that the simpler main routes didn't act as "breather" areas effectively, which is what I like them to be. I don't really need to unwind when there's not as much to unwind from. Gen 6 route design with Gen 7 or harder difficulty would make it balance out nicer. I guess that's just how I see it, though I'm not necessarily the best at explaining it, but does this make sense?

>>33559953
Um... Ok?? Rocket, Magma, Aqua, aside from team flair, really, all the evil teams are fairly UNgoofy.

>>33560032
You don't think Rocket, Magma, and Aqua are goofy as shit? You legitimately feel that way?

>>33559761
Still applies to most caves in the game.

>>33560025
Oh and the other contributing factor that I forgot to mention is Ride Pokemon. They offered the same sort of obstacles to be placed without needing HMs, so they made routes cut into your team creation way less. But the reason I also forget about this is because the routes didn't take advantage of Rides as well as they could have.

>>33559956
That's NOT how it's supposed to be though!! You get rewarded for traversing the routes from a place to another, it's not optional. Next you casuals will want battling to be optional too.

>>33560025
I disagree about having to unwind between battles, personally towns and cities are good enough breathers for me. But yeah I get where you're coming from.

>>33560038
No, I don't need to, because they legit aren't. I won't put it past any of them to kill you if it wasn't a kids game, and Giovanni is def moving drugs too.

>>33560025
You must hate gen 1-5 then.

>>33559729
The PokePelago is a real timesaver when it comes to EV training and collecting berries, it was nice having a team without a HM user around for once, and the Boss 'Totem' Pokemon was a fun concept that I wished they did more of.

Gen 7 pulls a lot of stuff that I think takes the franchise two steps back, the stuff above is all pretty neat.

>>33560057
You're just thinking of the higher ups, though. What about the grunts? And the lower ranking members? They're all absurdly goofy.

And if you think about Magma and Aqua's goals, they're fucking morons who IMMEDIATELY regret their actions when they realize "Wow, if we drought/drown the world, it really sucks!" No shit!

Giovanni, Cyrus, and Ghetsis were all solid villains that are easy to take seriously, but their organizations for the most part are not in the slightest. The only exception there is MAYBE Gen 1's Team Rocket, but as soon as Giovanni left they became a literal joke.

>>33560048
Cities are another good point too though, since Gen 7's cities were a lot more barebones than usual too. Generally I liked cities for that purpose too. Take a moment to just head into town and talk to a bunch of random town people. They weren't really the most interesting compared to other RPGs, but I appreciated their presence. I actually spent a lot of time in Lumiose City from time to time.
>>33560063
I had some fun with them, but if I'm being honest, a lot of the time I did wish the routes were simpler in them. They all kinda hit and missed in different areas. They had more of the optional areas I liked, but getting from place to place did feel like a slog a lot of the time when I just wanted to get to the next town. I'm curious where USM is going at this point, since there's a possibility of Dive returning apparently with a Mantine ride, and new areas are being added, there's a chance it might hit the balance I really hope for.

>>33560084
The overall goal of Team Aqua was stupid, considering the region, but Magmas made sense, given the region. Also, the grunts look like savage criminals in aqua, and evil geniuses in magma, so no. They aren't goofy.
Plasma was good, but I prefer bw2 plasma, and not bw plasma. While both are fairly serious, the ninja pirate motif bw2 plasma has is much fiercer than that who knights motif. Rocket wasn't a joke, after Giovanni left, they managed to stay alive without him for a whole 2 years. While galactic looked stupid, beyond the grunts they were probably the most dangerous, messing with time space.

>>33560103
And you are one of the casuals ruining this series. Gen 1-5 they weren't simple, because they aren't intended to be, and for good reason.

>>33560103
I know a lot of people hate the snow routes in Sinnoh but I absolutely adore the track through Mt. Coronet and then upwards to Snowpoint. The path was long, somewhat convoluted and had some decent trainers. You really felt like this wasn't somewhere people just went everyday for a walk. And then you get to Snowpoint and you can relax and talk to the townspeople, heal up your team and get a Fly point before challenging the local Gym.
Really nice in my opinion and I honestly wish we had more sequences like that.

>>33560137
This.

I guess this ended up becoming more of a "How would you fix it" thread

>>33560125
I still don't see the problem with Team Skull. If they were the main antagonists, sure, I'd get being disappointed that they're very non-serious and goofy. But they aren't the main villains, they're literal flunkies being used by the Aether Foundation, the REAL villains of the story.

For that role, they play their part beautifully. They parody the silliest parts of previous Evil Teams, parody the fact that pretty much EVERY Evil Team's grunts use low level trash and are beyond pathetic to defeat, and they're entertaining.

>>33560152
Team Skull is a laughable red herring, if you're 5. They act like literally no one alive who isn't both being paid a lot of mullah, and regretting every second of it, they talk in uneducated puns speak, and they make me cringe. Even worse, the attempt to make them seem like the villains while secretly having Aether be makes them seem even stupider when you figure out that they aren't the bad guys, which is an obvious deduction at even a glimpse of Lusamine.

>>33560152
AND, the only goofy previous team to parody is team flare, who was ultimately stupid too.

>>33560137
Mount Coronet was alright. For the cave parts that I actually DID enjoy, it's up there. I think my favorite mandatory cave was BW Victory Road, and least favorite was Ice Path although interestingly enough, Gen 2 was my first game. What I think BWVR did right was that while it was less straightforward, it was pretty creative, and it DID reward exploration without feeling overly labyrinthine, it was one of the more creative caves, it didn't draw out too long, and it didn't rely on HMs too much. Ice Path felt too long, and while it wasn't totally HM heavy, it had a lot of puzzle solving that I just didn't particularly enjoy, and halfway through I just wanted it to be done already. IIRC Coronet may have been longer, but it wasn't as confusing and frustrating.

>>33560175
They're teenagers who felt like they didn't belong in normal society OR just wanted to go do their own thing/be lazy which resulted them joining Team Skull, and as a result they think they're hot shit and badass when really they're sad and pathetic. The entire POINT of them is to be cringey.

>>33560152
I loved the bait and switch concept with the teams, but like a lot of other Gen 7 aspects, it could have been executed way better. And by that I mean not making it painfully obvious from both the trailers and the prologue. It would have been miles better if the opening sequence somehow just made it harder to tell that Lillie was running from the Foundation. The idea of showing her running off was cinematic and interesting, but it was too overt about showing Aether as a negative force. If the angles, lighting, whatever were changed to just make it difficult to see what Lillie was running from, that alone would have improved lot.

All in this franchise could be executed way better anons.

People here sure can't like anything about 7, if you dislike SM all related to is shit.

>>33559729
>PokéRide
Nailed it
>PokéPelago
Nailed it
>Battle Styles
On the right track but will probably be gone by gen 8
>Gen 7 mons
Awesome except the dumb high school starters

>>33560220
>about 7
*gen 7

>>33560220
Yeah pretty much this

>>33559729
Basically everything that isn't post-game was fun. PokePelago was fun, Refresh was fun, campaign was fun.

>>33560220
I think what really stings with SM is that it actually has potential and shows signs of being genuinely REALLY exceptional, introducing a lot of new concepts and mechanics that could completely refresh the series and genuinely take it up an entire level... but it fails to actually achieve ANY of this to its full potential so you're left with this "what if?" feeling more than most games previously.

>>33560253
And it's thoughts like this that really make me hopeful for USM, because in the end it might end up fixing a lot.
There's a 0% chance it'll fix everything, we all know this, but it could solve a lot of SM's problems like this by just giving it that extra push it needs.

Character design was some of the best in the series. For me.

>>33560253
Holy shit, fucking this. This is why, in my personal opinion, SM is worse than XY., because it raises your hopes so high only to crush it immediately.

>>33559729
i also liked pokepalego, it was good to put those lazy fucks to work.

>>33560259
I'm personally hyped about the concept. My problem is if it's too similar to SM it'll feel very dry playing through it all over again this soon.

Still, Assembly ALONE makes me want to play it.

>>33560268
Definitely the best gen when it comes to eye candy, if you know what I mean.
Gave me fap material for a lifetime.

>>33560272
I wouldn't go as far as to say I think it's worse than XY, but that's because I see XY as the worst games for their time of release entirely because they feel like absolutely nothing. They're the opposite of SM, where they really didn't even try for potential in the slightest and instead opted for half-assed all across the board as a way of using it to experiment with new ideas and 3D graphics.

I'm not saying I think Gen 6 itself is bad. I love a LOT of the Pokemon designs and I really, really like Mega Evolutions. But XY as games are just... they're just nothing. Incredibly forgettable time wasting nothing.

Bottom line is Sun and Moon was a one step forward two steps back type situation. They games felt modern for the first time in forever but they lacked in any real exploration or dungeons. They had a bigger focus on the story but it was wayy too constant and broke the pace of the game. Tehy introduced a brand new concept with alola forms but really restricted it by having it be gen 1 only.

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well... i actually loved sun and moon. i loved the trials totems were a nice challenge. liked the new mons, especially incineroar, music blew me back and i liked the story, was really comfy and it had some pretty intense moments pretty much the reason why i play pokemon, super excited for ultra sun and moon aswell. you guys are bad fans of the series

>>33559729
I liked completing the Alola Dex. It's the first time since Red that I caught them all in a region.

>>33559729
>It's fun to hate on gen 7
But it's not. I liked it.

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>>33559729
Gen 7 gave me my first ever Pokemon husbando, so I'm grateful for that. Plus some neat designs like Silvally, Marshadow and Alolan Ninetales among others. Also I love Team Skull.

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I liked pretty much everything in SM
The designs were cool, the story was fun to play (Even though it was poorly written on certain point, like when the Ultra hole appeared litterally a minute after you're introduced to the concept), the post game was cool (A bit short), and kinda challenging when you consider that each post game quest/facility was hidden behind a pretty high leveled trainer.
The only problem I got with those games are all those innaccessible areas that are obviously here (Sunne/Moone Lake, Golf place and others), and the fact that it's really hard to restart the game when you know all the story and can't fast forward/skip the dialogue
I'm kinda excited for USUM, but I really really wish they'll introduce more Alola forms, and hopefully Mega, I'd hate to see those concepts never re-used again when Gen 8 will be out with a new game breaking gimmick

>>33559816
So that's the power of shit taste ?