>Most story driven game in the series >Worst story in the

>>33420209
Get a life

>>33420209
too much cutscenes

>>33420209
Game Freak

It's not the use of a story that's the problem; it's the story falling on it's face and it being presented in a forced manner that obstructs the core gameplay.

So, bad story, bad presentation; try again when you come up with a new, better one, but there's no rush.

>>33420209
>me
stopped reading right there

>>33420222
Waste of trips

>>33420223
But that means you read everything!

>>33420213
t. lilliefag

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>>33420209
I've never played the Pokemon games for the story. I just tolerate them, but since gen 3 it's been really hard to do even that. SM was by far the most guilty of this to the point that it's barely recognizable as a Pokemon experience for me.

I just want to compete for the badges and fight in the league, I don't wanna save the world or become a chosen one for some legendary pokemon.

>>33420209
Lillie's story was a good idea, but executed horribly.

Imagine if they portrayed Lusamine as a super conservationalist that wanted to bring pokemon into Ultra Space to protect them from humans?

And she was using Nebby to bust open the portal to get there? And Lillie was a trainer that had left Aether Paradise to get stronger and save Nebby?

And in the middle of the game, you team up with Hau, Gladion and Lillie to sneak in to save Nebby, but Lusamine opens the portal and releases destructive ultra beasts and has a 'What have I done?' moment...

And then in the second half of the game you get to gather the escaped beasts with Looker and make your way to the Altar of the Moone/Sunne to return them to their own world (accessible later to keep some).

That would've been cool.

I liked the story. I don't think it's fair to attribute the linearity of the game, if that's your major problem, exclusively to the story. I may be misremembering some things, but there's no reason, story-wise, that the asshole with the Stoutland needs to impede your progress in three different ways on the second island in the most frustrating way possible. He's there to stop you from sequence breaking some things, but there are more elegant ways to do that through more intelligent, less frustrating design. I can't think of any reason, story-wise, that you couldn't be given the choice between going up to the observatory or down around the shore of the third island first.

In terms of interruptions, there are a lot of things that could be removed or shortened to mitigate how often or how severely you're interrupted without actually impacting the story, but that does fall on the presentation side of things, which is a part of the narrative. All in all, I understand some people just won't like the story, and that's a fair complaint, but pretty often it seems to be used as a scapegoat for things that are really just bad design from Gamefreak. I guess the story might still be at fault for these things in a sense, in that Gamefreak really just doesn't know how to pace a more story-driven game or set decent event triggers, but execution is the issue.

>>33420289
I think Lusamine is better as a more irredeemable villain. The first half of your idea is essentially what happens in the game aside from painting Lusamine differently. I do also wish that the Ultra Beasts had taken center stage in the story. Before release I expected them to make up the main quest, and the Pokemon League stuff to be post-game, but it ended up going the other way around. I guess because they weren't interested in giving the UBs a spotlight that necessitates a certain level of presentation when the format and game progression would be so different from standard, so they fell back on the Pokemon League like always.

>>33420209
it was pretty great.

>legendary mon is not just muh ancient legend I wanna retrieve to rule the world
>lusamine is fucking crazy
>guzma
>some interaction story with lily and not the shit we got in XY

Only bad thing is that gladion and hau had too less screen time actually.

My biggest hope for ppkemon switch is to have as little story as posible. Something like the original games, you are just a kid who wqnts to be champion and theres an evil team doing something
That would also help for a more open gameplay

>>33420290
I agree with this. The story was actually pretty good, the constant interruptions ruined it.

>>33420308
>Before release I expected [ultra beasts] to make up the main quest, and the Pokemon League stuff to be post-game
That would have actually been pretty cool

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>>33420213
Oooh gottem

>>33420209
A lot of it has to do with delivery. The worst part was the hour-long intro, but the multiple points where characters converse for minutes was pretty insufferable too. GF needs to invest in a Skip Dialogue button.

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>>33420209
>Unpopular opinion, coming through.
I enjoyed the story.
I'm not about to jump on a random ass bandwagon because the majority agrees on it.
I liked Lilly
I liked Gladion
I liked Lusamine
Hau, fuck yourself.
I thought everything worked well and i didn't mind the cutscenes.

>>33420209
It's not the worst story though. That goes to Sinnoh. Hoenn's story was almost as bad as Sinnoh's but at least it was slightly interesting, even if that's only because there were two teams.

It's very simple: they need a good story, sure, but then instead of shoving it down our throats with cutscenes they need to do it like Half Life. That's one step closer to Gen 1 but now they have the technology to present it in a much more complex way without forcing it on us

i actually don't mind the stories, heck i started in gen 6 with x&y and my main problem with the story is that the villains try to be too serious and edgy (see team flare) so team skull were quite fun as a bunch of dumb nerds trying too hard to be cool

>>33420209
If there is no story there can´t be any bad points about the story. That´s logic.

>>33422031
I liked S/M too, anon

>>33422083
Honestly, i don't like sinnoh much, if at all.
I liked some pokemon from it but that's pretty much it

>>33422083
Gens 3-6 all have shitty stories desu
Gen 3 has retarded villains who lack common sense
Gen 4 has an autistic leader and a bunch of retards following him
Gen 5's narrative doesn't even work properly in-universe
Gen 6 is gen 4's plot except not as large a scale

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>>33420420
No. None of games were about becoming the Pokemon League champion.

It was about aiming to be the complete
the Pokédex.

>Worst story in the series
*leans into mic*
WRONG

>>33420209
Too many unskippable cutscenes and your character pretty much just takes a backseat to the whole thing even though YOU'RE the only one doing the fighting most of the time.

>>33420209
You never experienced any sort of narrative media that doesn't belong to this franchise. Therefore, your standards have been defined by it and each time they're "challenged" (read "some shit actually does happen") you're challenged to get this. You can't so you end up having a bad experience because of the story. You then assume this has to be something wrong with the story.

Interfered too much with the gameplay and I didn't have an actual reason to care about Lillie and her mom. The game just assumed I'd automatically care.

>>33423705
Fuck off Richard, that's not even correct

>>33420308
>I think Lusamine is better as a more irredeemable villain.
I don't think she did nothing wrong but even then the game itself never shows her being fine and dandy so she sort of paid for what she did. More than freaking Archie, Maxie and Giovanni at least.

>>33422031
The story is good. Its mostly hated by two groups of people: one hates it because its there and the other hate it because they seriously expect something retardedly more complex. Which applies to pretty much any non anime form of pokemon media.

>>33420249
This is what Gen 1 and 2 were like, and as a result they were fucking boring. There was barely anything more to the game, so it really felt pointless because there was no plot that motivates the player to even bother getting stronger. Team Rocket was pathetic and more of a nuisance than a threat.

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>mfw people criticize SM's story like it's the worst in the franchise
gamefreak has always been invariably bad at storytelling
>be archie/maxie
>"YESS KYOGRE/GROUDON GO AND TAKE OVER THE WORLD'S CLIMATE"
>'MASTER KYOGRE/GROUDON ARE TAING OVER THE WORLD'S CLIMATE'
>"WTF WHAT WENT WRONG"
>"HEY YOU TYKE, YOU WERE ALWAYS TRYING TO STOP US, NOW PLEASE GO SAVE OUR ASSES"
>go to unova
>battle a random kid
>"oh, protagonist-kun, the way you actually selected consecutive damaging moves against my Patrat instead of spamming Leer shows me that you're an incredible trainer! This power...could you be "that" trainer, prophecized to defeat Uchiha Madara?"
>legendary trio as well as one of the halfs of the legendary dragon shamelessly throw their bodies at you because You Are The Chosen One, and soon the story compels around you like you're playing Skyrim
then someone goes
>"it's a game for children!"
until they remember there are countless of books, fairy tales and whatnot for children that prove this concept wrong to its core, it's not the genre's fault that they're dumb

>>33420290
Roadblocks reached their peak with random dancing.

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>>33424175
YOU'VE GOT TO PLAY THE GAME THE WAY I WANT YOU TO PLAY IT

>>33420289
That's not near as good as it could've been either. Too much cliche.

Would've been far more interesting if they'd been creations of the Interdream Zone Burnett was studying. This would not only have explained why the sub-legend UBs all look/act so much like some of the human characters - if it can create new Formes of existing Pokémon why not new Pokémon entirely since it is the InterDREAM zone? - it would've allowed them to flesh out those 8 character more.

Instead they only explained Nihilego and in a stupid way since it's said to not have a specific shape, just mimicking other things. What the fuck is it even mimicking except Lillie who is supposedly mimicking it thanks to Lusamine? Makes zero fucking sense.

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>>33424241
Is Jimmy a pokemon?
It have some resemblances to pikachu :DDDD
Don´t you think?

>>33420209
Masuda.

Story driven video games are cancerous garbage.

>>33422031
I liked it but i wont play through it again. None of the trials stood out enough to make them worth going through again and ultra space was lame as fuck.

>>33420289
That would have been shit.
We don't need more Ns.

A woman who went insane because her husband disappeared is refreshingly regressive.

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>>33425728
An exaggeration for sure.
I don't mind story as long as i know what i'm signing up for.
If i know it's story driven, i sit down for some exposition and resolution.
I believe it was expected that S/M was going to be a bit more... meaty.

>>33424226
>>33424175
I actually didn't mind this that much. I'd much rather get self-aware, humorous roadblocks than giving one guy poor justifications as to why he has the right to deny the passage to anyone that wants to use this road.

>>33425871
This might easily explain why I enjoyed SM more than other people on here.

I read up some reviews of most games I get before I get them, to get an idea of what I'm in for. That way, I can get into the right mindset to enjoy it. I heard a lot of talk about SM being more linear and story-oriented, so I knew what I was getting, and I just had fun with it.

6 had the worst story tho.

And for the record, 2 had the best story. 5 is SECOND. More melodrama =/= better story, you fags. Super Paper Mario also suffers from this.

>>33423993
Gen 1 and 2 the goal was become the Champion, the strongest trainer in all the land. That's motivation enough.

>>33420209
Imagine a cat burying a turd in your back yard.It is gross.But you are not in the yard,and even if you were the smell probably wouldn't reach you.The turd exists,but you can ignore it.

Now imagine a nip faggot dug up this turd and is rubbing it in your face.You can't ignore it anymore,you have to do something.

The cat turd is pokémon story.It was always bad.The problem isn't that it got worse,the problem is that GF is shoving this on our faces.People can put up with terrible story if it's not actually affecting gameplay.Case in point : The Elder Scrolls.

Story is the worst fucking thing to have ever happened to Pokemon. Instead of focusing on delivering a good adventure with a focus on exploration to players, they just railroad you with cutscenes and scripted events.
Making a story focused game is literally taking the easiest way out because it allows for cheap and lazy design and gives devs an excuse not to focus on and improve the actual gameplay.

Am I the only one that doesn't mind having a story in Pokémon?

>>33424175
someone keeps bringing this up every time but it was only once and clearly GF being cheeky, as opposed to Stoutland which is them being dickish

>>33420290
I dont like the story, but this definitely impacted by enjoyment of it a bit and I acknowledge that. Good post

>>33422083
SInnoh's story is only bad if you never played Platinum

>>33423993
>and as a result they were fucking boring
no they werent. Well, Kanto was, but that's because of the region. Johto's story was great because there wasnt one narrative following you the whole time, but many different things making the world feel alive and your journey more authentic

>>33426167
Excellent taste holy shit

>>33427488
I agree. I usually can ignore the story but Alola was entirely designed around the story to the point where it is affecting too much

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>>33423993
>This is what Gen 1 and 2 were like, and as a result they were fucking boring.

I find stories and characters that are mandatory and coincidentally revolve around you because you are a special child far more boring and frankly insulting.

>There was barely anything more to the game

And you want that the additional content be the lazy slogfest mentioned above?

>so it really felt pointless because there was no plot that motivates the player to even bother getting stronger

GYMS/TRIALS.
LEAGUE.
RIVALS.

EVERY game does this. Do you want to have gym leaders kill your growlithe or something to have "plot"-motivation?

>Team Rocket was pathetic and more of a nuisance than a threat.

This is correct, and as a result the consistency of the experience remained intact. You just happened to be journeying when these thugs were doing thugish shit, and you dealt with it. No "only you can do this" or "prophecy, ancient Pokemon" shenanigans.

>>33425986
I meant peak in a positive sense, actually.

>>33427495
I don't hate that the games are starting to have a story, I just wish it was better written. For the last two gens it's felt like nothing but walking from cutscene to cutscene instead of exploring the world and occasionally having events happen along the way. You always know where you're going because someone explains it to you beforehand. There's no real "get out there and be a pokemon master!" feel to it anymore, it's all about hand holding and the other characters, it pushes the MC into the background as a convenient plot device they just whip out to solve everyone's problems.

>>33423510
>can't find an actual flaw, so just resorts to calling Cyrus retarded with no further explanation
3/10 got me to reply

>>33424241
>This would not only have explained why the sub-legend UBs all look/act so much like some of the human characters

Sounds like you're one of the people who got way too fixated on some dumb pre-release theories, which lost all credibility when they tried to pair Buzzwole with Gladion.

>>33424105
You weren't able to point out a single flaw in the storytelling of either gen. There are though, but you can't really pretend you're the critical one if a kids game is beyond you.

>>33426167
> More melodrama =/= better story, you fags.
Agree.

>>33427495
You aren't. I never quite got this inherent relation between "catch and fight with these monsters" and "nothing happens" everyone is so sure about.

>>33420209
>Worst story in the series
That's BW
inb4 deluded unovabort defence forse

>>33429362
The idiocy of the team leaders in Hoenn is unsurpassed. Everyone after Team Rocket is done in by trying to control a power well beyond their ability, but the basic goals of Team Magma and Aqua are idiotic, and they are so surprised by Groudon and Kyogre doing what they wanted that it comes across that they didn't even know the ramifications of their own desires, even though actual children playing the game could see.

If there was some self-destructive, intended personal doomsday they wanted to achieve that just so happened to be flavoured after their ideology, and they got scared when it got too real, then I could buy into it. But they really thought that what they were doing wouldn't kill tons of people and Pokemon.

Sure, you can say that the characters being stupid isn't necessarily a flaw in the storytelling, but it absolutely takes me out of it. They're pathetic even as cartoon villains in games for children.

>>33428052
>No "only you can do this" or "prophecy, ancient Pokemon" shenanigans.
This is at it's absolute worst in ORAS, where it has a special "only you can do this" plot not once, but TWICE

>>33424105
you're right about Hoenn's story and completely wrong about Unova's as you're taking the gameplay too literally. Also, there wasnt really a chosen one feel to the story either

>>33429490
>but the basic goals of Team Magma and Aqua are idiotic, and they are so surprised by Groudon and Kyogre doing what they wanted that it comes across that they didn't even know the ramifications of their own desires, even though actual children playing the game could see.
You didn't point out that the goals were idiotic though, just that they tried to grasp a power beyond what they can control which isn't stupid as of itself.

> They're pathetic even as cartoon villains in games for children.
They work excellently as that precisely because of it, or do you really want yet another lets conquer/destroy the world shit? It was stupid but at least original. My problem with them is that they got away scott free which is made more ridiculous in ORAS.

>>33429492
MCs have been supposed to be good trainers ever since Gen 1 though.

>>33429699
>You
Not the same person.

>It was stupid but at least original.
Originality is worthless if the execution is bad. I'll always prefer something familiar done well to something new done poorly. Pokemon doesn't usually even accomplish "familiar done well", but that doesn't help the Hoenn plot.

>>33429699
The Unova and Johto MC are good trainers. The ORAS MC was personally chosen by both Rayquaza and Mega Lati@s to help save the world

>>33429710
>Originality is worthless if the execution is bad.
It wasn't though. All your criticism is to the concept, not the execution for instance.

>>33429745
>The Unova and Johto MC are good trainers.
All MCs are. In-universe, doing what its simple to us from a gameplay perspective is a big feat.

>The ORAS MC was personally chosen by both Rayquaza and Mega Lati@s to help save the world
And why do you think they chose him/her?

>>33429749
Okay, then originality is worthless if your original story is fucking shit.

>>33420209
A tale of a family driven into chaos with their only solution to rekindle a burnt out relationship being the bonds they create with the outside forces of humans and Pokémon sounds like a pretty heartwarming story to me

>>33420222
This is one of those comments that come off really smug Because the person who made it thinks they know what they are talking about

What a waste

>>33429772
The actual problem people have with the story is not the content.

>>33429779
Sounds like every post about the plot or the canon in the pokemon games in /vp/.

>>33427602
>but many different things making the world feel alive and your journey more authentic

Which were?

>>33420209
Don't get this meme. What's the problem with the story? Like really, what was the real problem?

Do people even realize that the story didn't even really start until the player got to Aether Paradise? Before that it was just the trainer traveling from place to place exploring the islands, occasional battle with friends and rivals, and embarrassing the schoolyard ruffians who went around throwing gang signs everywhere. There weren't even any stakes, it was as solid as a Pokémon adventure should even be.

It wasn't until the first visit to Aether Paradise where the player was really started to being engrossed into the overarching plot of the games, which was a distraught family influencing the rest of the region where the only way to save everything was to save the family. The way the game handled the story and it's characters was actually fairly competent for a Pokémon game. Both side and main characters were getting development you wouldn't usually expect in oddly realistic ways, making them all feel like real people because the whole story was incredibly realistic. People and Pokémon were all dealing with real world matters that draws a connection and a sense of empathy and sympathy for these characters because a lot of us have been through these kinds of things. Getting into fights with your family, getting laid off, running away, not knowing what to do in the future, not wanting to remain in the shadow of your superiors, taking in someone in need, domestic abuse, rebellion, wanting to be noticed, or even that feeling where you know everything is going to come to an end but you still continue to live life as you should. All these character arcs, personalities, and backgrounds can connect with us so vividly unlike any previous Pokémon game has.

Yes the cutscenes were hammered in but that's what we should expect from a Pokémon game that was marketed heavily to have a story that would engross and entice the player. It's not bad by any means.

>>33429864
I agree with you but this is old as the fanbase itself, the pokemon fanbase hates any sort of story that has any sort of meaningful events, development and conclusion. This is the same fanbase that for 20 years has watched and supported Ash while he doesn't progress at all eager to see the pattern being broken, getting "dissapointed" when its not and giving it another chance because in the end, that's what they like. When people criticize the story in the pokemon games, its actually a facade to hide what their real problem they have with it, as seen in how most of the criticism made shows either a serious lack of media consumption experience, lack of reading comprehension or outright headcanon delusions. So, to answer your question

>What's the problem with the story?
That it's there.

I do agree with the criticism about not being able to skip cutscenes though as sometimes you just want to replay the game to try another team.

>>33429864
>What's the problem with the story? Like really, what was the real problem?
Lillie. She is the protagonist of the first cutscene of the game, she ruins the choice of the starter by making that sequence longer that it needs to be, she stops any exploration or actual progress until you deal with her problems, every character has to interact with both the player and her making the unskippable dialogues longer, everytime she makes a mistake the player has to fix it, the player character can't show any emotion because Lillie does and at the end of the game when she finally goes away you have to sit through the longest cutscene in game.
You can remove her while keeping the exact same story(it only needs some really easy fixes like Gladion telling you that Aether is evil or when Lusamine fucks off to Ultraspace the player can choose if going there or fight the UB in Alola) with the same themes( who anyway are barely explored in the actual game) and the only change is that the gameplay gets much better because you aren't burdened by her presence

>>33429772
execution is more important than concept

>>33429753
Because he was wrapped up in a prophecy related to saving the world with Zinnia and had the right Key Stone to activate Ray in a huge case of "right place right time"

What I'm saying is you're technically right, but ORAS pushed it further than any other game to me

>>33429864
People who say that SM explored story and characters in a way no other has confuse me and I genuinely think that the 3D models just tricked people into thinking that what SM is doing is revolutionary. Because nothing in the game is particularly more developed than say, Clair getting lectured about her entitlement at Dragon's Den or Hugh confronting the fact that some of Team Plasma changed, going against his worldview.

Anyways, the story sucked because there were too many plot threads at once, leading to many of them not getting that much done with them. To the point where the entire motivation of Lusamine was relegated to being explained in postgame. The pacing was bad and led to things like the Burnett lab section that sticks out massively from the surrounding parts of the game as Kukhui sends you off on your Island Challenge moments after seeing a real life version of the wormholes his wife's entire work is based on the research of, which of course you see immediately after learning about it. And the main character had no motivation to do any of it as it was to heavily leaned to "I'm following Lillie do this" rather than "I'm doing this"

>>33429909
>everyone in the fanbase is dumb except me

>>33430085
For that to work, I should have disagred with the guy I was replying to which I clearly didn't if you read the post. Thanks for proving me right though.

>>33430072
>What I'm saying is you're technically right, but ORAS pushed it further than any other game to me
Understandable. Personally, I also dislike the Chose One plots which is why I like the ones we have in the game which in the end are all variations of "little kid from a small town progress and becomes a big deal". And ORAS has you literally going from an idiot kid that just moved in to literally going to space.

>>33430128
funny because both of these replies are me. Your long comment was essentially just a long winded version of "if someone doesnt like the story, it's never the story's fault which is stupid

>>33430128
I like small town kid becomes big deal too, but it was stretched way too far. It's like how Matt Selman (simpsons co-showrunner) dislikes Deep Space Homer. Technically, it is possible, but the story is treating it as semi realistic but the logical leaps are stretched so far that you feel disconnected from it. Even if I love Deep Space Homer

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The story in Sun and Moon was good, as well as all of the characters and overall theme. I just felt that some things were really wasted potential
>Ultra Space just being a small path where you have a boss battle
>UB's not being interactive until after the game, multiple UB's made yet only one is used in the main plot
>wormholes opening up around the islands having no impact, really should have fucked everything up to some extent so you at least feel the impact of the story
>Guzma/Po Town/Plumeria being incredibly underused. Guzma should have really had his backstory delved into and had a proper resolution at the end of the game. Also should have really concluded his end with Plumeria since they made special care to not only have her give you a z crystal but ALSO had her request you bring him back before the final fight with Lusamine. Guzma isn't even mentioned unless you FIND HIM POST GAME, and Plumeria through fucking league challenges/tree
>Speaking of Lusamine, the plot would have been 100x better if they involved Mohn and Lusamine's reason for going insane. That would have not only made Lusamine's actions and character make sense, while giving her a ton more depth as a character, but also give her a proper resolution instead of just being defeated and "getting better" at the end. I know Gladion talks about his dad post game but only very briefly.
>game felt like a tourist story with Lillie; did not feel like an adventure
I think they had to cut a lot of shit due to time or something (Or maybe laziness because they knew kids don't care?), because they give enough clues that they acknowledge them.

>>33430150
>Your long comment was essentially just a long winded version of "if someone doesnt like the story, it's never the story's fault which is stupid
I never said its never the story's fault. But in the pokemon's fanbase case it isn't, as proven by the given example where the story IS bad and people like it.

>but the story is treating it as semi realistic but the logical leaps are stretched so far that you feel disconnected from it
If you play these games for the realism I have bad news for you.

My problem with Pokemon plots is that they never focus on Pokemon and humans and their relationships/friendships. In BW and BW2 Pokemon were nothing more than plot devices ("muh purrloin") and in the PMD games, there's no humans at all outside of the one in Explorers pre-transformation, and even then you didn't see anything happen there. SM does a little more by focusing on Lillie and Cosmog, but outside of that there's not really much that showcases a Pokemon and human being actual friends and companions outside of hamfisted dialogue like Calem saying "Lysandre mega'd Gyarados so that means he loves his Pokemon!"

>>33430215
>Ultra Space just being a small path where you have a boss battle
Sad they didn't make it a dungeon. Maybe we could wander around other Ultra Space dimensions (and meet other UBs).
>UB's not being interactive until after the game, multiple UB's made yet only one is used in the main plot.
Even in post-game they barely have impact. They just wander around their locations and wait for being caught by you.
>wormholes opening up around the islands having no impact, really should have fucked everything up to some extent so you at least feel the impact of the story.
As I said, it's wasted potential for other UBs dimensions.
>Guzma/Po Town/Plumeria being incredibly underused. Guzma should have really had his backstory delved into and had a proper resolution at the end of the game (...).
Like every other character. They are here to just move the story forward. Gladion being the best example - he could just disappear and much wouldn't change.
>Speaking of Lusamine, the plot would have been 100x better if they involved Mohn and Lusamine's reason for going insane. That would have not only made Lusamine's actions and character make sense, while giving her a ton more depth as a character, but also give her a proper resolution instead of just being defeated and "getting better" at the end. I know Gladion talks about his dad post game but only very briefly.
Does game give us the reason why Lusamine went apeshit? I know that Gladion says something it (but it sounds more like his personal thoughts).
>game felt like a tourist story with Lillie; did not feel like an adventure
This made me rush through Alola like any other region. And scene on bridge is fucking pathetic.

>>33426167
>5 is SECOND.
>More melodrama =/= better story, you fags.
??????????

>>33430281
>Does game give us the reason why Lusamine went apeshit?
Presumably she started getting crazy after Mohn disappeared. Though, they thought this MAJOR IMPORTANT ASPECT of her character was unnecessary to mention until after the game in a small clip of dialogue that you have to find.

>>33430230
>I never said its never the story's fault
>But in the pokemon's fanbase case it isn't
But that's what I said. And that's stupid. Setting your argument up where everyone who disagrees is inherently wrong isnt a good idea. Also, anime fans are almost a seperate fanbase.
>If you play these games for the realism I have bad news for you
the games not being realistic isnt an excuse for them going overboard. Just because someone believes in ghosts doesnt mean they have to believe in santa claus, because accepting some unrealistic setups means accepting them all

>>33420214
to mach watur

>>33420209
The overarching story in all pokémon games are shit, it just becomes more noticeable when they focus on it.

>>33420209
>Most story driven game in the series
That's not any PMD game ever.

>>33430434
but Hoenn does have too much water

>>33430417
>But that's what I said.
"it Isn't" as in "It isn't the story's fault".

>Setting your argument up where everyone who disagrees is inherently wrong isnt a good idea.
The point of making an argument is proving I'm right about something, which implies people who disagree are wrong if the argument is good and true so what you said is redundant and misses the point of why a person can make an argument in the first place. What should be done is proving why the argument is either wrong, doesn't prove the arguer right, or contradicts a point made by the arguer. Not questioning making the argument in the first place and definitely not making a strawman.

>Also, anime fans are almost a seperate fanbase.
Considering both the pokemon anime and the pokemon games are from the same franchise, and that you can see patterns common in both, suposedly separate, fanbases, I'd say they aren't as different as you think.

>Just because someone believes in ghosts doesnt mean they have to believe in santa claus, because accepting some unrealistic setups means accepting them all
Agree. But considering that you just fought a monster that could shape the land/flood the planet Earth, and then proceeded to see an old prophecy about a meteor coming to earth being true(and this is just ORAS itself, nevermind the other games), going to space(AKA, something that did happen IRL) doesn't seem like "going overboard" at all.

>>33430474
PMD games stories suck though.

>>33430484
>"it Isn't" as in "It isn't the story's fault".
My point is that you're saying that any critisims put towards a pokemon story is never the story's fault within this fanbase. That's what you're saying and that's what I say you're saying. I'm not sure if I'm being difficult to understand or if you are. also le wacky strawguy argument? Let's not, I actually like this discussion

> I'd say they aren't as different as you think.
but this completely unprovable point exists so you can use anime examples to prove how people interpret the games. If I say I dont watch the anime because I think the story is bad (which I dont and do) you can just say I'm a minority and that most of the fanbase isnt like that. But I think a lot more are than you realise

>going to space(AKA, something that did happen IRL) doesn't seem like "going overboard" at all.
but that's purely based on your interpretation of what the limits to the story can be, which is only valid to you. Bear in mind I felt the story on a whole went overboard, so listing those things isnt helping. If you apply your argument to say, Platinum, I'd agree. While what happens is ridiculous, it felt a lot more like a kid being swept up into a huge story as it felt like you werent as in control as in ORAS, and you had help from the Champion, the regional prof and the police, rather than Steven that just sends you off to do things.

>>33430484
>>33430575
Also that whole section about the point of arguments is coming from the idea that your points are objective, which simply cannot be the case in a discussion like this. So pointless. The point of an argument is to explain your opinions so other people can discuss their own

>>33430575
>My point is that you're saying that any critisims put towards a pokemon story is never the story's fault within this fanbase.
I'm not sure how literal are you taking the word "never" here, but I did use the word "most" in post.
That said, yes, most times the criticism aren't the story's fault but the fanbase being retarded. I said why in the post you like to make strawmans about instead of reading.

>That's what you're saying and that's what I say you're saying.
I like how you criticize me for saying anyone who disagrees with me is wrong then you proceed to do the same.

> also le wacky strawguy argument?
Then stop doing it. I never said the stories in pokemon's games are perfect and without flaws. I'm more blaming the fanbase, not praising the story.

>but this completely unprovable point
>But I think a lot more are than you realise
"unprovable" works both ways here, if you say its unprovable that they're the same fanbases then its also unprovable that they're different. I don't think saying the POKEMON anime fanbase and the POKEMON game fanbase have some sort of overlap is a stretch.

>but that's purely based on your interpretation of what the limits to the story can be, which is only valid to you.
And why does this apply to me and not you?

>>33430598
>>33430598
> that whole section about the point of arguments is coming from the idea that your points are objective
I said "if the argument is good and true" (and therefore right) which means whoever disagrees has to be wrong IF the argument is right. Of course, if the argument is not right then whoever agrees is wrong, but in order for that the argument has to first be wrong and you have to say why it is. Which is done by contesting the argument(which I'm not saying you don't, as you do), not the act of arguing itself(which you also did, my point is that it's irrelevant and misses the point).

>which simply cannot be the case in a discussion like this.
Do you realize that bringing up "muh subjectivity" means "I've lost the discussion"? If you bring that up, I can also bring that up and this will never be over.

>The point of an argument is to explain your opinions so other people can discuss their own
....no, the point of an argument is to say why think why you think. An opinion is an opinion.

>>33430664
>And why does this apply to me and not you?
of course it applies to me, several parts of my post show that I'm not saying I'm right, just explaining what I think to further discussion. You are completely free to think it's fine, and I never stated otherwise

>Do you realize that bringing up "muh subjectivity" means "I've lost the discussion"? If you bring that up, I can also bring that up and this will never be over.
I think I see what it is here. I'm not trying to "win" anything here, because there is no winning here. At the end of the day nothing will change other than we read what someone else thinks and will maybe convinced on one of the points. You're approaching this completely differently than I am, apparently. I dont think your points arent valid just because they are subjective.

>That said, yes, most times the criticism aren't the story's fault but the fanbase being retarded.
which is what I said you said? Then proceeded to say that's a dumb thing to say? This part has left me completely mystified as to what's just not working here for you.

Anyways, it's at the point in the discussions where points are so branched out that there's like 7 different things to reply to. Which is usually where I check out. Your different approach to this may count this as me giving up to leave you with a win" which is fine. Or you may not do that at all and I'm just assuming with emphasis o the ass, which is also fine. Imma go eat lunch, it was still a good discussion to get the gnoggin joggin

>>33430748
There's no point in discussing subjectivities beyond "I think this thing", which is why you can't say anyone else is wrong. But that's what you did when you questioned my statement about the fanbase. You're free to have any opinions but if you contest someone else's opinion(or what you perceive as their opinion as my post about the fanbase wasn't an opinion, but a statement based on observation) as if they're wrong then you change the discussion into an argument. And arguments can be won or lost.

>which is what I said you said? Then proceeded to say that's a dumb thing to say? This part has left me completely mystified as to what's just not working here for you.
No, you said that AND that I think everyone else is dumb(which is wrong as implied in the fact I didn't tell the anon I was replying to that he was dumb or wrong) AND that I think the story is never at fault, which I repeated in >>33430664 "I never said the stories in pokemon's games are perfect and without flaws. I'm more blaming the fanbase, not praising the story." just to make clear.

tl;dr you added two statements that weren't there and proceeded to make your case based on them.

>Your different approach to this may count this as me giving up to leave you with a win" which is fine.
I don't consider it a win unless the other side concedes. Obviously I don't concede either so I didn't lose either.

>>33420209
>story's shit
>gameplay's subpar
>graphics are horrendous
And yet there are people on this very board who willingly give their money to Gamefreak.
Explain yourselves.

>>33430835
Its nice that this could have ended civilly.

Lemmie just jump in for one extra statement
>No, you said that AND that I think everyone else is dumb
right. desu that was a throwaway comment I actually didnt think was a very good response I just said because I never expected a debate and so I completely forgot it and pretty much started over with the second one. I'll concede on that, since I agree that was bad

as for that last part, your comment being based entirely on the fanbase gave off the impression that the issue was entirely with them rather than the story and I dont concede on that part because it's a logical conclusion to come to from that post, I think. Either way I dont think you "lost" either, we just both got participation trophies

File: 1504058940966.jpg (35KB, 482x321px) Image search: [Google]

35KB, 482x321px

>>33420209
Just because the story was long and unskippable doesn't mean it was good

>>33431526
>gave off the impression that the issue was entirely with them rather than the story
The issue I addressed in that post was entirely against the fanbase but at no point I said the story was perfect/without issues. I didn't make a statement about the story's quality on its own, just about how its perceived because I don't state everything I think about everything in every post I make, just like I'm not talking about sports, movies or politics in this post for example.

>Focus on dumbass child thief and her shitty mom instead of interesting pokemon
hmm...

>There are seven trials you must complete to gain Z crystals and to be able to challenge the Kahunas.
>Oh Mina? Yeah we just let her pretend to be one lmao.
>There are four Kahunas you must face in order to complete the Island Challenge.
>Except there aren't four, the guy on the last island died years ago lmao.
>Don't worry, we here at Aether will help protect the island pokemon against bad people like Team Skull.
>By employing them lmao.
>Wow Anon and Hau, I don't really like battles or anything but I'll watch you <3
>Wow Anon and Hau, I don't really like battles or anything but I'll watch you <3
>Wow Anon and Hau, I don't really like battles or anything but I'll watch you <3
>Wow Anon and Hau, I don't really like battles or anything but I'll watch you <3
>Wow Mom, you're just a huge faggot aren't you?
>Wow Lillie, aren't we all?

>>33429490
I mean Team Rocket also tried and failed to contain a power far beyond them, but it all happened off screen because the game wasn't busy fellating you. Mewtwo, all that jazz?