Why was the climax of SM so bad? Every game in the last few generation

In the post game you're going to fight all the dangerous UBs but you can just catch them at full health all in a row because Beast Balls are OP


Seriousy what went wrong with SM writing?

E. Lusamine was a pretty difficult battle and I liked how she looked. I don't like admitting it but it wiped me once (fucking bewear). I don't think it was that great (it's no BW or B2W2) but it was alright.

Also, lets not pretend Delta episode wasn't the most annoying shit. Having to follow that mission was the worst part of the game. And XY was really underwhelming as well. The only thing that "kind of" made up for it was Lysandre and all FOUR of his pokemon dying.

>>33295751
Damn, kinda sad how much you made me realize how utter shit that ending was, the past games I was at the edge of my seat cause it was the climax of everything (hardest trainer, best legend, EXP gains up the ass)

Kinda sad this just fell apart

>>33295761
wait so are beast balls essentially master balls?

>>33295770
Delta was only annoying cause I kept having to go back and forth, Once I was in Deoxy's ass it was fun.

>>33295781
That's kind of the point. Having to fly back and forth like 5 times, fighting the same stupid cunt over and over again was so annoying. The battles were alright, like flying into space on M.Rayquaza but ultimately, it was a shallow interaction. It had no objective. Aliens and that's it.

>Oh wow cool cutscene!
>and that's it
there was no weight. If you accidentally killed it or died to it, you could just come back tomorrow and try it again.

At the very least, SM had variety with the UBs and looker gives you a million pokebucks at the end for your troubles. And the UBs had some really cool and unique designs.

Also, SM didn't lock end-game until after the mission like ORAS did. You were forced to do the delta mission which I never want to do through my 4 or so playthroughs of ORAS.

The raid itself is good and one of the highlights of the game, especially since Hau and Gladion together always makes for a delightful scene, but everything after is a mess. Should've had a speedy backtrack of the region to help the Kahunas fight off the UBs, with some still unexplored areas being part of it and maybe some more unique Totem-esque effects for the UBs in these first fights. This would give Lillie time to mull over her feelings about her mother rather than the skip to next day. Then make it so holes keep opening rapidly with it believed Lusamine is the cause so there's some actual tension to go stop her besides just to help out Lillie. And I say keep Hau and Gladion along.

>>33295776
On UB's, they have an insane catch rate boost.

>>33295770
>Lusamine 2 uses the lowest possible AI setting
>everything has Pain Split

It was a pretty weak fight.

I would've liked SM and its plot way more if we actually got to go around Alola and fight the Ultra Beasts, like they could've been actual boss battles or something. I hate how much they were built up in both PR and the game itself only to lead to that shitty "climax" in the story and the rest of them being pushed off to some shitty post game quest.
Even if, in the end, they are just Pokemon it felt like they were a unique addition to the game, and I hate that they were so under utilized in the main story just so we're forced to focus on some girl's family issues.

>>33295781
Delta Episode was a mess in story and gameplay, which is a shame because the RS climax was done justice earlier and the post-credits fight was an excellent bookends for the Hoenn adventure. The final fight with Deoxys is literally the only highlight of DE, though it's a pretty good one.

SAY IT WITH ME NOW:

"USING DOUBLE BATTLES AS THE MAIN STORY BATTLE MODE WOULD HAVE MADE SUN AND MOON TOP TIER"

> Vs. Hau / Kahuna Kala

> Vs. Faba / Colress

> Vs. Guzma / Plumeria

> Vs. Lusamine / Mohn a.k.a. Father

>>33295799
Can I catch them in regular balls? Xurkitree would look sick in a quick ball

>>33295935
You can, but I think the odds of any non-Beast Ball working on them are reduced. I had Pheromosa break out of a few Net Balls once, which should have been impossible with the usual capture mechanics.

>>33295770
God, if only you fought LUSAMINE HERSELF. I mean they put a human FUSING WITH A POKEMON, Fucking awesome final boss material, and then they just had you fight her regular team. The have had you fight non pokemon in other pokemon games (The two most recent PMD games) so i see no reason why they didnt give Fused lusamine like a 600 bst and a bunch of moves for you to work around as a final challenge.

>>33295984
Digimon did a shitload of times, dunno why Pokemon was afraid to do it once. She didn't even look like a digimon so I dunno why they couldnt make this happen. I mean I know a 6 on 1 where the 1 is an actual human is tough and outta GF's nature, but it's like they went 90% and pussed out

>>33295935
Weirdly enough, they all have different catch rates.
>Guzzlord: 15
>Celesteela and Buzzwole: 25
>Xurkitree: 30
>Nihilego: 45
>Pheromosa and Kartana: 255
For reference, every optional legendary has a catch rate of 3 and 255 means 33% chance of nabbing it with Pokeball at full health.
>>33295971
Huh that is strange. Unless bulbapedo is wrong, the only ball rate that changes with UBs are Beast Balls. You might have just been incredibly unlucky.

>>33296033
Every non-Beast or Master Ball has its capture rate set to 1x.

>>33295751
I'll get shitted one, but the main reason I don't like Delta Episode and SM climax is because of how animeish it feels and how boring the reason for the antagonist to fight are.
People can say anything about Lysandre, but he at least had an opinion and reason to act how he acted.
Lusamine is just "wah she is crazy because aliens are beautiful ! Look at this Ben 10/anime fusion !!!"

>>33295751
>Affer awakening Solgaleo/Lunala you go to another world which is...a small cave. Then Lillie tells her mum she is mean, the mum fuses with a beast, you battle her and its over
Boii, seeing this written out reminds me just how half-finished the entire thing was..and just how disappointed I was that UBs got overhyped for nothing and presented as some otherworldly threat only to get hyper shafted...

>>33296144
But Delta Episode had a giant meteorite coming for Hoenn, its not boring

The reason I didn't like SM is how they want you to care for this "deep and meaningful" story with complex characters when the truth is, it's just a more out-of-the-ordinary story that had so much potential, but ultimately fell flat in its face, what with the anime tropes that started swarming in and never intending to make the story more serious.

It all felt too light-hearted for the kind of plot it was. There were so many theories out there, assuming what the plot was going to be and neither of them ever came true. So it's a bit of high expectations and having grown. Maybe if I were younger, it would have impacted me more, but when you're much older, you just start to realize how poorly written everything was for the sake of even having a story.

And honestly speaking, Hau or Gladion felt more authentic as a character than Lillie ever could be. They can paint her in all the pretty colors they are allowed to, but it won't change my opinion of her being simply more than a character for those who can "relate" to her than something that doesn't feel like it's trying too hard to come off as a fragile victim that can only do so much and acts like every little thing is a accomplishment. It's even got the infamous "haircut means character development" thing. Why is this even a thing? She barely evolved from what she was, why do they think a haircut's gonna change a thing?

>>33296355
I dont think Gladion or Hau were much better

In the end Gladion didnt do anything to help Lusamine OR Lillie. He left Lillie again when she wanted to save Lusamine and stayed at Aether because appreantly it was more important (not to mention he obviously didnt know anything about managing but hey)

Hau also suddenly left: not to help usin some way, not to, lets say, check whats the deal with those UBs that appeared in Alola. No, he went...to train with Illima....

WHO WROTE THIS BULLSHT

the sun/moon writers should go back to making shitty anime.

File: 1502447824507.png (67KB, 318x217px) Image search: [Google]

67KB, 318x217px

>>33296355
>>33295822
>>33295799
>>33295761
>>33295751
Anons, stop reminding me about all the missed potential SM had ....ugh, looking back now, horrible writing

File: Masterball_(Pokéball)_.png (58KB, 480x291px) Image search: [Google]

58KB, 480x291px

>>33295776
No.

File: Aether Foundation related stuff-1.jpg (285KB, 401x2353px) Image search: [Google]

285KB, 401x2353px

>>33296144
You should learn about Lusamine.

File: trying to_reach_mohn.jpg (97KB, 876x529px) Image search: [Google]

97KB, 876x529px

>>33296144

Learn more about Lusamine

>>33296509
and then he says that's just what he had to make himself believe in order to stay remotely sane. Even Gladion can't confirm Lusamine's reasons and that's what further makes SM writing shit

File: HNI_0044.jpg (31KB, 554x409px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 554x409px

>SM has dimensional labs for monitoring ultra wormholes
>never gets used except for blatant foreshadowing about the alien invaders
>colress is in the game but does nothing
>aether paradise labs is one hallway and two copy and pasted rooms, one of which is blocked off for a bit
>you battle very few aether grunts and you can avoid a lot of them
>conflict between bad and good parts of aether is so weak that it's only presented to you in the postgame and wicke
>wicke does nothing at all
>ultra beast invasion is of no consequence to anyone because the tapus fucked them up
>ultra beasts shoved into postgame
>ultra space is literally a room
>lusamine could've been left in ultra space and would've never bothered anyone again
>that fucking bait and switch with the motherbeast when she brings up a pokeball
>lusamine was on the lowest ai setting
>ultra beasts don't even get overworld models and they're never seen doing anything

>>33296482
Richard, go back to English class, please.

>>33296551
the only reason they made you go to ultra space is because lillie wanted to yell at her mommy
also, mystery files said or implied there are multiple wormholes which are their own separate thing, thus explaining why it was just a room full of nihilego and nothing else
>even lamer when you take that into account

Honestly, I've found all of the post gen 4 climaxes to be shit, they try to force a tense moment and hype battles but it feels like the writing team are too incompetent to achieve that.

I think Pokemon should scale back the direct story telling a bit, a part of what gave gens 1/2 their charm was how ambiguous the goal was and how much stopping the evil team felt like something you were doing along the way rather than a story forcing you to do it.

B/W and to a lesser extent S/M were kind of saved by having decent characters, but when you see that shit at its purest form in X/Y it feels way too forced.

Friendly reminder that the player is the cause of Lusamine's breakdown and the entire Ultra Beast fiasco

>acquire mysterious not in dex yet main form of flight in the region pokemon called Charizard a third of the way through the game
>meet some pedo on an island eating beans 24/7 named Mohn
>discover through Kukui's wife's aide that Mohn was researching ultra wormholes and disappeared shortly after
>meet Lusamine after this who explains her research is to find her husband who went missing while researching ultra wormholes
>player has met this guy
>player's gift Charizard knows where this is by default
>player doesn't offer to show Lusamine where her husband is
>she gets increasingly insane and unleashes Ultra Beasts while trying to find Mohn
>had you said something Alola wouldn't have had any issues and the entire plot/game would have fallen apart by the third island

>>33296575
That's stupid. But somewhat amusing thinking each Ultra Beast species is restricted to a single room for all eternity.

>>33296597
It's stupid forreal, but that's what the mystery files lore claimed or heavily implied (don't remember which). Ruined my entire headcanon about UBs being an internally coherent invasive species connected with each other and assisting each other if it'd come to an all-out fight with the people of Alola
>tfw they're just a bunch of disconnected overhyped standalone nonthreats instead

>>33295751

The part I hated the most was that nobody cared about the Ultra Beasts. Buzzwole or Pheramosa attacked Hala and the first thing I did was paying him a visit to get more information.

And the only thing he says is the standard "How is your journey? Have you met some new friends" bullshit.

>>33295751

Also the part about the flute. You just go to that Exeggcutor Island and there it is. And why do you and Lillie know which melody you have to play on it? It just happens. Bullshit.

>>33295751
Shame that Zygarde got nothing but a inconclusive ending and a gimmicky form change for its complete form in SM. Sad!

>>33295751
>You have double bottle against Mars and Juniper, then you witness Cyrus summoning Dialga and Palkia, interefered by the lake trio first and then Giratina leaping out of shadow. Giratina "kidnaps Cyrus". Cynthia and the player venture into crazy another world. You face Cyrus and finaally Giratina
And you call that a climax? Fucking sinnohfetuses, accept that dppt are the worst, sun and moon are waaaay better than the shitfest that is gen iv.
Also
>stopped reading there

>>33296670
Im disapointed they didnt do anything with Zygarde but seeing how so many aspects of SM are such a mess (trials, story, lore, features) is it really that surprising they also fucked up Zygarde?

>>33296594
Literally none of that is as you say
>the game never mentions the name of the Aether professor who started all the UBs stuff and all the shady shite in aether
>You, as the player behind the screen, can obviously make the connection that professor M is Mohn, but your PC is an 11yr old who likely cannot
> Your player was stupid enough to not even get the connection that Lusamine, Lillie and Gladion are related
>All your points become moot based on everything above
Furthermore
>Lusamine herself never states her reasons for doing what she does apart from "THEYRE BOOTIFUL,I NEED THEM!"
> It's only theorized by Gladion that Mohn's disappearance is why she went crazy, he is still not mentioned by name

>>33297252
It probably was shoehorned into the games, so not really if that was the case. Hopefully USUM changes some of Zygarde's dreadful and gimmicky mechanics, though desu I doubt that will happen.

If anything, I hope that USUM does gen 7 more justice than the initial games did.

>>33295751
Tapu Koko vs Buzzwole/Pheramosa could've been such a hype part with potential, but it was only a short cutscene. Pre-Release trailers overhyped it.

>>33297406
easily one of my biggest qualms with sm. Overhyped shit, overhyped UBs that amounted to nothing

>>33297406
Yeah, I was so frustrated at the cut...

>>33295751
there world is never in danger
youre literally going into another dimension to pick up a friend's mom
said mom says 'no' at which point you beat up her animals with your animals which put her into a coma for some reason and then you go to the Pokémon league like nothing ever happened

SM suffers from a similar problem to XY. There's a lot if build up and intrigue, but at some point it's like game doesn't know what to do so it spaz out and just rushes through things. As mentioned, XY atleast had a good climax whereas SM didn't.

The beginning stuff despite cutscene overload was still fairly interesting stuff and made me want to learn more. It maintains that up until the Lillie transformation and thus everything falls apart. You find yourself not caring about anything due to ever dropped detail outside crazy mom. The entire climax is dependant on how much you care about Lillie since there's no stakes beyond crazy mom hates you. Truly awful stuff.

So how do we fix SM's climax?

>>33298683
Fighting Mother Beast as a 6th on Lusamine's team would have helped.

Instead of her being defeated by cutscene magic.

>>33295971
Catchrate for non-Beast Balls on UB's are 50% 0 and 50% 1 I think.

File: Lusamine is Crazy.jpg (22KB, 219x326px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 219x326px

>>33298683
After the Aether infiltration, you go to see Alola overrun with UBs. You see several more of the characters battling them throughout the islands.

You have to go and visit Kukui and Burnett who know about the phenomena.They tell you about the how the legendary pokemon can open or close Wormholes and that to avert this crisis, you need to summon it. Hau and Gladion offer to help fend off the beast, Gladion especially since Silvally is a beast killer.

Lillie wants to come with you because she knows she's no help in a fight and says she wants to make things right any way she can. the Poni island section is largely the same, but there's more dread and people nervous.

Getting to Lusamine, you can actually explore the Ultra Space, encountering a bunch of wild Nihlegos. Once you arrive, she taunts, yaddy yaddy yadda, but instead of transforming right then and there, she reveals her goal to replace people and normal pokemon with her "perfect" beasts and herself. She says she plans to open an even bigger Wormhole on the largest point of Alola. Mount Lanakilla. You, Lillie and the legendary go back and have to hurry on to Lanakila.

Yup, no half ass league here, instead, you climb up Lanakila, battling up until the top atleast 4 different beasts. The encounters are different based on version. Buzzwole, Xurkitree, Kartana and Guzzlord in Sun, and Pheromosa, Xurkitree, Celesteela and Guzzlord in Moon.

All of them are totem like battles, with a Nihlego helper.

Once you reach the top, Lusamine gives another crazy speech and you finally battle her in a distorted area around the top of Lanakila. If making her the boss is too ambitious, just have it be like the one in the game.


After the battle, you get the same emotional scene between Lillie and Lusamine. Afterwards there's an epic scene of the legendary summoning all their power and creating wormholes that the UltraBeast around Alola are attracted to and go back in. Alola is saved and crisis averted.

>>33297216
stop falseflagging, we've been over this

>You battle her and its over
You mean you battle her pokemon and its over. To give us a real boss fight against mecha lusamine was too much to ask for.

>>33295751
You praise XY's story but shits on SM's? How can you have such delusional taste? At least SM had something cool visually going on, XY was just shit all the way through.

>>33300334
he's not praising XY's story retard, he's simply saying that it had a better climax
learn to read

>>33295751
>Then Lillie tells her mum she is mean
That was a very big moment for her and you shouldn't underplay it. Lillie is a sweet girl and it took a lot for her to say how she really felt.

>>33295858
If only double battles didn't cause the game to freeze the 3ds

>>33300385
We don't get enough insight into their relationship for us to care about the moment. The only times we've seen them together, they were always on opposing ends.

>>33295770
>E. Lusamine was a pretty difficult battle
not with her retarded AI. I guess Gamefreak were afraid the +1 in one stat would be too hard for kiddies. She has the second lowest AI in the game, only above the standard early game trainers.

>>33295751
XY was just as but yeah I agree

>>33295770
>E. Lusamine was a pretty difficult battle

All she did was spam Pain Split nonstop when i fought her.

>>33300334
XY story was unpolished, unfinised and not fleshed out enough but at least they did a good job about the climax. The ending of Flare arc works surprisingly well, even despite the story being so barebones

In Alola you have shitton of cutscenes throughout the entire game only for the story to fall flat on it ass in the end

>>33303573
this desu
Really hoping USUM fix everything that was broken in SM

Xy climax was shit, we made joke about lysandre senseless octopus-gear for months, and now people say it was good?

Then again i am on /vp/.

File: f6mk5jdca5nblunluarj.png (527KB, 636x430px) Image search: [Google]

527KB, 636x430px

>>33297327
Your argument shit itself when you separated the player from the main character. Every action, dialogue choice, battle command, and other choices like fossils, buying items, etc are all done as the main character by the player, the literal core of all video games with a story. Do you really think a kid could navigate the Sylph Co. teleports, any of the Victory Roads, any desert or underwater area, not shit itself when witnessing the power of legendaries, etc?

Lusamine's reaction when Hau mentions Lillie after fighting the unnamed Nihilego should indicate there's a connection besides obvious physical features early on. Plus pic related happens when meeting Kukui's wife after you get access to Poke Pelago and before Faba takes you to Aether for the first time. With all the lore about him, realizing the missing Mohn, the island Mohn, and professor M are the same person isn't hard even for an eleven year old

>>33296551
>colress does nothing
wrong he's there to make the game easier by giving flame charge defeating the whole purpose of the trial up ahead

>>33298918
>>33300300
Because fighting B/W Kyurem was so good, eh?

>wow it's over in one fucking turn
Really hype battle.

>Pokémon
>Good writing
Lol pokecucks everytime

>>33300409
I disagree. We know that they were very close when she was younger and we got that one cute vignette about them dancing in the rain and then sleeping together.

>I kept waking her up to make sure it wasn't a dream.
;_;

>>33305376
All of which was awkwardly shoved in while we had to find and care about Lusamine.