Allowing legendaries (at all in any amount) in competative

B-BUT ARTICUNO AND REGIGIGAS!!!

>>33189808
Competitive battles are battles done between the best trainers, so I think legendaries are okay.

God get these fucking broken legends like Regice out of my GAME

>>33189813
The fact that NU through UU are saturated with legendaries too makes it even worse.

The entire game is just Ubers for rejects with stupid BSTs.

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>>33189823
Legendary Pokemon are supposed to be one-of-a-kind. Seeing them literally every game is getting real stupid real fast.

>>33189833
They're there for a reason, though. The lack of offensive presence and defensive capabilities.

>there are people so completely inept at competitive pokemon that they don't realize that banning legendaries and megas woukd just result in psuedos and the like taking the exact same place where legendaries and megas were
Makes me think

>>33189840
I have to agree on that one. If the new Switch games allow a in-story co-op function, people would really be satisfied.

>>33189840
Better idea, stop making legendaries that are "one of a kind"

>>33189868
They are already kinda doing that with the sub-legends. Heck outside of that one lugia in the anime, we have Nebby being a slut in game. That's a main legendary.

>>33189880
And yet there's still the tapus

>>33189849
And the lower they drop the more superior they are to the rest of the tier. Remember also that tier isn't based at all on how objectively good a Pokemon is, it's based on usage, so even though you have these perfectly strong and useful legendary Pokemon they can fall damn far because there's simply a *better* option.

For fuck's sake Meloetta is NU! I understand it's not like, the most amazing shit out there but don't tell me that power creep isn't real.

There's also the fact that, in recent years, gamefreak has made something of an effort to be less retarded when they design a pokemon's kit, and Pokemon with shallow movepools are much less common than they used to be (though still exist before you point out that shitty mantis), which would be great if they went back and buffed the old ones more consistently to make up for it.

>>33189840
Marowak and Gyarados here are as prevalent as Celesteela and Koko. Why is it a problem only for the latter?

>>33189904
Game Freak have always chosen to create new things rather than fix old ones

The fact that some pokemon actually got minor stat boosts is insane considering their record

>>33189840
>Legendary Pokemon are supposed to be one-of-a-kind.

None of them are supposed to be one of a kind. Stop believing this myth.

>>33189912
They aren't nearly as prevalent in singles, VGC is just hot shit.

Tapu and Celesteela are still fucking everywhere in singles.

>>33189926
>none of them are supposed to be one-of-a-kind

Yeah, they clearly are. Some even literally have backstories describing how they, as specific, individual entities, came to be.

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>>33189926
>he believes in the mimikyu=babby tapu theory
Haha.

>>33189940
I have no idea what that theory is and it has nothing to do with my post.

>>33189939
A member of the species is a specific individual entity. But that doesn't equate to the entire species being one of a kind.

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>>33189808

>It's another "all legendaries are broken" thread

>>33189950
The Sinnoh trio actually, literally describes how three specific Pokemon were transformed by Ho-Oh into three specific legendaries. There are no more than the three.

Also, the idea of the weather trio, the time/space gen 4 legendaries, and the fucking space dragons being "just a part of a larger species" is fucking laughable.

For fuck's sake one is just god.

They're just so boring, they're on every team. Even NU is flooded with them now. At least make a teir without them

>>33189952
Funny, if these threads are common why don't you have a good counter-argument beside "well these few are shit and nobody uses them so it's OK that literally every tier is overrun with legendary pokemon"

Oh wait I said GOOD counter-argument, didn't I?

I wish they gave Top Kek play rough so it'd have to be pushed to Ubers. I dunno what Fini and Lel are doing in OU

>>33189964
Indeed, the lore is massively fucked, especially when compared with in-game statistics

However, fortunately, with the exception of Mewtwo, most of these can be explained away as myths and legends about powerful beings people didn't understand, rather than hard fact.

Especially regarding Sinnoh's bullshit, I mean seriously, if they were actually capable of creating universes or being fucking gods, no one should ever be able to catch them, that's just stupid

>>33189983
Give it Icicle Crash and Ice Beam instead.

>>33189964
>There are no more than the three

If there were no more than three their wouldn't be Battle Tower trainers casually using them and their shiny versions couldn't exist in the anime. So no, there's more than three. They were never meant to be one of a kind.

>muh sinnoh legendary gods
There is LITERALLY an entire event in HGSS that shows a new one being created you faggot. Again, not one of a kind.

>>33189990
>multiplayer games with unique, definately one-of-a-kind characters need canon explanations for clones

It's like you've never played a fighting game. I'd take what the game literally tells you through text over the developers lazily throwing them in a fucking challenge area, like really.
>the anime
Lol?

>HGSS event

It shows it being transferred to your d's, not that a new one is being created

>>33189984
Mixed up Johto and Sinnoh in my post.

>>33190023
>multiplayer games with unique, definately one-of-a-kind characters need canon explanations for clones

This. Legendaries are one of a kind in the story. If they were actually one of a kind that would be as retarded as the people who think they are canonically one of a large species because more than one can exist at once.

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>>33189964

I see just as many Garchomp, Gyarados, and A-Marowak on teams as I do Tapus. Should we ban those too? While we're at it let's ban Mimikyu and Arcanine for being almost as common.

Lets not fucking stop there though, lets literally ban every pokemon in the game that's used on more than 10% of teams. I mean fuck those things right? I'm tired of seeing them used everywhere...if people cant use them they'll HAVE to star being diverse.

Spoiler what you fags don't realize is if you ban all of these things the next best thing will take their place and you'll just hate that instead. A pokemon doesn't have to have an arbitrary label like "legendary" to get used by every single fucker on ranked battle spot. You're just too stupid to see the forest for the trees so you tunnel in on the "legendary" label as a reason to hate them.

>>33190061

My apologies, this post was for this nimrod >>33189976

>>33190061
My main reason for hating legendaries is that they often get really nice moves that are therefore never allowed on anything else ever, like Aeroblast, psycho boost and origin pulse, and that it's really, really tedious trying to get the ivs and nature you want on them

I don't care if other pokemon replace them, I just hate how frustrating it is to get good legendaries and that there's often no other option to fill their niche. This is made even worse by event legendaries and even event non-legendaries like extremespeed linoone

>>33190092

Just as many non legendary pokemon have attacks unique to them....that argument is pretty petty.

As for IVs/nature synchronizing and bottlecaps are a thing now... I can sort of understand the event mon problem but even then just SR till you get the nature you want and gold bottlecap that shit. The age of these problems is long over.

>>33190061
It's funny, because you're the one who fails to see.

I understand how "legendary" doesn't necessarily denote power you dumb fucking cunt, don't patronize me, you're too much of a bitch boy to patronize me.

It's a very obvious trend to anyone who actually plays the game and doesn't suck, and you scrub shitters who just don't want to let go of your crutches do nothing but point to the few outliers and go "LOOK, THIS POORLY DESIGNED SHIT THAT NOBODY WOULD MISS IF IT WAS BANNED ANYWAY TOTALLY PROVES ITS ON THE SAME LEVEL"

Or

"B-BUT LOOK AT HOW GOOD THIS NON-LEGENDARY POKEMON IS"

There are legendaries that aren't OP, I know that, but there are so damn many legendaries at this point that they are at the top of every tier, from top tier to shit tier.

>other Pokemon will take their place

The other Pokemon will almost certainly have more exploitable weaknesses, especially since they won't have 550-600 BST that will be arbitrarily shoved into bulk because these Pokemon are supposed to be *boss battles*

>>33189808
Keep shit how it is

Make new tier on showdown that's just OU with a flat ban on legendaries and limit 1 pseudo or mega per team

Bing bang boom

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>>33190138

lol this entire post is gold. You're seriously autistic enough about this topic to type out this level of rage?

You're trying to argue that there are "SO FUCKING MANY LEGENDARIES OMG THATS ALL I SEE!!" but what do you actually see nowadays besides tapus and the occasional UB? It's called "new toy syndrome". I think you're the kind of guy who'd be happy if we just banned pokemon as a whole, then you'd have nothing to hate.

Also there are a ton of things in lower tiers with 550-600 bsts, are you just trying your hardest to prove you have no idea what you're talking about?

>>33190119
Do they?

Most non-legendary signature moves tend to either suck (barrage, kinesis, pay day), or get passed around to similar pokemon (icicle spear, spore, crabhammer)

There's a select few exceptions to this, Volt tackle is the obvious one, but compare that to legendary signature moves. The only one that's been given to another pokemon that isn't also a legendary is sacred sword

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>>33189808
This is your metagame without legendaries.
Stall uses 1 legendary pokemon with any regularity and like 2-3 others are occasional picks. Meanwhile you have no wallbreakers left.

>>33190023
>It's like you've never played a fighting game.
Whether or not I've played a fighting game has nothing to do with my point. And everything I've listed is single player

>Lol?
Lol because you got proven wrong? Yeah that is funny

>It shows it being transferred to your d's, not that a new one is being created
You clearly don't know what I'm talking about. Go watch the cutscene with Arceus. It literally shows a new legendary being created from an egg.

>>33190040
>Legendaries are one of a kind in the story

They're clearly not.

>>33190186
>y-you're just mad an enraged because you called me mean things

I guess that's all this is gonna be now, isn't it faggot? You keep going on believing that my pinkie finger tapping caps lock while I tore you a new asshole means you have me in a corner, bitchboi.

>There's legendaries in the lower tiers
I literally specified that and went on to explain how that's even WORSE you dumb mongoloid.

>>33190209
>that Wakfu Porygon 2
I'm triggered.

>>33190209
But pretty much all the pokemon that aren't legendaries that get booted up to BL tiers or Ubers are wallbreakers

>>33190211
>everything ive mentioned is single player

You mentioned the battle tower legendaries, which I explained doesn't count because it's a hastily thrown together bonus challenge mode.

Pokemon is multiplayer first, always has been. Some little canned animations they threw in when giving out a legendary who's original event was cancelled hardly counts either, especially when you consider WHAT Pokemon that is. Like, you really think it's a literal egg that it literally gestated in? The whole theme of that generation's legendaries is time and space manipulation, and egg symbolism in relation to creation is not a new thing.

Here's the biggest kicker. If they are simply a part of a larger species, why can't you breed them?

>>33190209
>there are no non-legendary wallbreakers

This is how fucking infested the meta is with these Pokemon, people don't even know there are other choices.

>>33189808
they are going to nerf the tapus in the next games tho

>>33190275
Source?

>>33190190

Ok when you exclude the ones not worth using I can think of...

Spirit Shackle, Darkest Lariat, Sparkling Aria, Beak Blast, Baneful Bunker, Soft-Boiled, Heat Crash, Night daze (until they gave it to Lunala anyway..), Gear Grind, Fiery Dance, Water Shuriken, King's Shield, Flying Press, Accelerock, Trop Kick, First Impression, Instruct, Clanging Scales, and the obligatory Sketch

The list is still pretty sizeable and while these may get passed around...Entei got Sacred fire so some of those might too.

>>33190260
>it's a hastily thrown together bonus challenge mode.

There are hundreds of other Pokemon they could've used if they wanted to avoid it. So yes it counts. None of the BT trainers use Silvally for example.


>Like, you really think it's a literal egg that it literally gestated in?
Yes. The point of the cutscene is to show a brand new Pokemon being created. It's even given to you at lv1.

>Here's the biggest kicker. If they are simply a part of a larger species, why can't you breed them?
Yes clearly Nihilego isn't part of a larger species because I can't breed it even though the game shows you dozens of them.

>>33190290
Wasn't Aura Sphere originally exclusive to Lucario before being passed around?

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>>33190214

lol you cant even come up with a coherent argument at this point, all you're doing is screaming obscenities.

We're done here, enjoy whatever fantasy you live in.

>>33190300

I didn't list Aura sphere but afaik Mew, Mewtwo, Togekiss, and the gen4 boxart legends got it that same gen.

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>>33190290
water shuriken isn't exclusive

>>33190315

Oh shit he does have it, mb

I mean that's neat I guess but who is ever going to run physical accelgor?

>>33190298
Ok seriously my dude, you just need to pay attention to how the legendaries are treated in-game.

There's not a soul in the Pokemon world who says "an entei" or "one of the rayquaza"

They are all treated as unique, because they are. The devs clearly didnt write or design a single thing with that it mind. Hell, there is one specific example of a legendary Pokemon being NOT one of a kind, and gamefreak goes out of their way to show the player that there is definitely more than one of this legendary Pokemon(guess which one) it's the only one they do it with, every other legendary is so damn unique the locals often treat them like dieties even though people in Pokemon clearly have a pretty damn good idea of how these creatures work.

Notice the one example of an unbreedable Pokemon you could think of that there is definitely more than one of WASN'T a legendary.

>>33190303
>we're done here

Typical copout from some autist who needs to get the last word in but doesn't have an argument.

Then again you didn't have an argument two posts ago, so better late than never.

>>33190303
Actually maybe if you'd read the damn thread you'd see that everything you brought up was already addressed thoroughly. You look like a fool.

>>33190279
my ass, but they probably are going to reduce the number of turns of the fields

>>33190290
>spirit shackle, darkest lariat, sparkling aria, beak blast, baneful bunker, accelerock, trop kick, first impression, instruct, clanging scales
All introduced this generation, you've given them no time to spread

>Softboiled, water shuriken
Not actually signature moves, softboiled was a move tutor in Emerald that could be taught to the Clefairy line and the Togepi line and water shuriken is learned by Accelgor.

>Sketch
Sketch is smeargle's thing, it's the only thing smeargle has going for it, no other pokemon ever will or ever should get sketch

So that leaves heat crash, fiery dance, king's shield and flying press. And you're right about those, but I did say "there are a select few exceptions to this" did I not? And who knows, they may be spread as well, it took until gen 5 for a pokemon beyond Beedrill to get twineedle

>>33189808
Your birth was a mistake too but noone is posting about it here.

>>33190324
water shuriken is special now

>>33190356

You're not refuting any of my points. All you're doing is screaming "BUT THATS WRONG AND I FUCKING HATE YOU".

I tried to explain that your model of thinking will just result in the balance of power being replaced with other slightly less broken things. People will identify the best of the best, others will identify counters to them, and that's all you'll see. You're just spraying a new coat of paint on your perceived "problem" and not actually addressing it. I think what it boils down to is you just don't like people using good pokemon.

tldr; You're too stupid to see beyond your autistic fit and therefore not worth arguing with.

>>33190324
Shuriken is special now but non STAB and rng is bad

>>33190396

You complained about Origin Pulse in your first post and that's just as new, try not to be a hypocrite when arguing....it hurts your credibility.

That was an off the top of my head list and I already admitted that I had no idea about water shuriken (and also softboiled apparently but damn that's an archaic movetutor.

And yes...I stated your last point too, anything can change.

>>33190403
>>33190413

I thought that was an Ash-Greninja only thing, neat I guess.

>>33190423
No it isn't

Origin pulse was introduced last generation, not this generation, and evidence suggests that legendary signatures don't spread, as opposed to non-legendary signature moves. There are only 3 legendary signature moves that have spread, sacred fire, heart swap and sacred sword, and only one of those spread to pokemon that aren't legendaries (There are other pseudo-signature moves that have spread to other event legendaries, but they all spread in the same generation that they were introduced so I wouldn't count them)

>>33190470

Origin pulse was recent enough...we're splitting hairs at this point.

Anything can change.

>>33190404
Except there being a "best" Pokemon was NEVER the problem fucktard, i so and explained why directly to you, you ignored it. Why? Because you have no idea so you're just bullshitting as you go, desperately trying to be the last reply in this string because your 'tism addled mind thinks that's what wins arguments.

Really, you have fucking nothing.

>>33190622

I'm confused, if you don't hate them because they're the most used pokemon then why are you mad? I just re-read all of your arguments and you haven't explained a thing, it's all "They're too good and I hate them!".

Like I get that you're riding your rage euphoria here and want desperately to win the argument but wtf even is your argument to begin with besides "I HATE THINGS THAT ARE LEGENDARY!" ?

At this point it feels like you're just baiting me with stupidity

>>33190493
I would try and give ratios of non-legendary signature moves that have been given to other pokemon against legendary signature moves that have been given to other pokemojn. But I'd be using bulbapedia, and bulbapedia's "list of signature moves" is ludicrously innaccurate, including moves that could be bred on to other pokemon, recieved by other pokemon via transferring them up and given to other pokemon via events

I tried doing this, but my browser crashed midway through, making me lose progress. It was interesting though. more than half of all signature moves held by non-legendary pokemon were introduced this generation. I have no idea why they went so completely overboard with signature moves this generation. It's really weird

>>33189990
>There is LITERALLY an entire event in HGSS that shows a new one being created
The event shows Arceus rebooting the universe and placing the legendary there instead of wherever it was.

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>>33189840
>there are still people in 2017 that think Legendaries are one of a kind
The only things supposed to be one of a kind are either Mythicals or Box Art Legendaries and even then our good pal Nebby flung that notion out the window.
>but how can you see more than one Landorus
Idk, how can you see more than one Sawk or Throh? Pokemon is one of tjose series where if you try to apply logic, you're just dig yourself deeper and deeper.

>>33190647
There will always be a most used pokemon, dumbshit. The problem is that legendaries, by their very nature, have enough extra points to go around to be both specialized AND well-rounded.

Look at Tapu Koko. Why is this ultra fast, hard hitting sweeper able to tank hits like it does? Oh yeah, because they have to dump that extra BST SOMEWHERE if they don't want to make every legendary another Deoxys.

Most legendaries have a regular Pokemon that would fill that same niche, but have more exploitable weaknesses. If legendaries were flat banned, those Pokemon would rise to that position and their very nature of being easier to counter will positively effect the meta, even with shit that nobody really cares about like the Regis or manaphy getting the shaft, and that could always be fixed later.

Legendary pokemon should only appear in a specifically chosen game cart like the Golden Tickets in Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory.

Legendaries are fine, event pokemon shouldn't exist

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Quote from Smogon forums from a thread analyzing Perfect Cell- I mean Zygarde

>just look at it like a normal Zygarde that basically gets a buffed Sitrus Berry for free. He gets 50% of his HP back once he falls below 50%. Dragon STAB + 1000 Arrows allows it to hit everything bar Tapu Bulu for neutral damage, it has Extreme Speed for priority and can boost with DD or Coil. A nice, balanced Pokemon that I could see doing well in OU this time around.

>a nice, balanced Pokemon that I could see doing well in OU

>in OU

Its gotten so bad that people genuinely believe this thing belongs in OU.

This is what smogonfags actually want. Well, I say smogonfags but smogon itself is OK, just the fags who follow it are not.

>>33190936
> 100 base Attack unchanged
> Slower than regular Zygarde
Thats probably why.

>>33190936
Hey, here on /vp/ we were shitting on Perfect Zygarde too; but this is /vp/ where people tend to be completely retarded about competitive.

Is there currently a rule in place for VGC that only one legendary can be used per battle ala one Mega and one Z-move?
Cause if not, that alone would be a simple enough of a fix I think.

>>33190993
>base 216/121/95 defenses

Having 85 speed and 100 attack on top of that is fucking mind-blowing. I'm pretty sure Perfect-Z is far and away, with absolutely no fucking question the bulkiest Pokemon in the game.

>>33190936
>Look up if it has a phasing move

>it gets dragon tail

HOW DOES ONE KILL IT BESIDE STAB ICE?

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>SPORE IS IN NU NOW

>THE POKEMON THAT GETS IT ISN'T EVEN BAD

THAT'S IT

I'M SO DONE

WHAT IS NU EVEN FOR

>>33190936
Now give it aura break