Discounting megas, almost half of the starters (530~ bst)

>>33111417

Incineroar will leave NU when Intimidate is released, so it doesn't belong with the rest of these shits

>>33111417
Torterra dosen't need a Mega.

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>>33111491
>buttblasted Incinershitfag

>>33111503

>Intimidate user bulkier than Lando-T
>staying NU

top kek

>>33111491
You mean Incineroar will drop to PU where it belongs because it's PU by viability, with or without intimidate.

>>33111491
Yeah cool, RU isn't much better pal. Face it, unless Incineroar gets like super fucking good tutors you ain't gonna see it anywhere near UU or OU soon.

>>33111417
HAHAHAHA
EVERYONE BTFO

>>33111417
Damn the fire starters really let themselves go... got from badass fire lizard to hideous obese manchild furries...

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>>33111417
Question, OP.
Why does it matter?

>>33111417
NU isn't that bad when you think about it. Let me use Delphox as an example.

Chesnaught is RU, but while Chesnaught is getting its ass kicked everywhere in RU, Delphox is top tier in NU and dominating the competition. See where I am getting at?

>>33111559
Some of us actually play the games, anon.

>>33111565
>RU - | 19 | Chesnaught | 8.91225%
>NU - | 21 | Delphox | 6.09720%

I understand what you mean, but I don't think it was the best example. Unless something changed in the last month or so.

>>33111559
I'm just surprised that so many Pokemon with decent potential and high bst are not even RU worthy this generation.

>>33111417
>tfw Feraligatr will probably become NU due to power creep
Mega fucking when

>>33111582
I play the games too, Anon. I'm just wondering why the arbitrary tier system of a website 75% of us shit on every time it's mentioned matters.

>>33111615
If we used Pokemon based purely on their BSTs, everyone would be using Slaking.

>>33111615
In the end it all depends on the usage. Fucking Slowbro is in NU, and Gallade is PU.

>>33111624
Slaking is an exception because of its Hindering ability. Hell, even Golisopod is RU.
Furthermore, things would probably be even worse if we used Battle Spot usage data instead.

>>33111503
>>33111526
Assblasted faggots detected.

>>33112088
Last I checked, Decidueye is comfy in UU while Incineroar is struggling to have any resemblence of relevance down in NU.

>>33112126
Decidueye is banned from both NU and this thread. You can only talk about the Pokemon in the OP picture.

Why does that matter?

So who's the second worst water starter?

>>33111522
>weak to rocks and all other hazards
>no good support moves like pursuit, knock off, hazards etc
>no good recovery move to make up for the shit movepool
>typing is weak to a bunch of common attacking types like ground, water, fighting and rock
>only usable fire stab has recoil
>slow
>not at all versatile in any way, has like 4 usable moves
>thinks pure bulk is the only thing that matters

what point are you actually trying to make anon.

>>33112209
Feraligatr, but it's still pretty decent

>>33111417
>there are still people who'll argue water isn't a powerhouse type

>>33112220
Actually, I'm retarded. Blastoise without Mega is the second worst. It's probably going to be NU soon too.

>>33112258
Wait, really? Why? I thought it having Rapid Spin was a solid niche.

>>33112126
I think that's the opposite tho.
Decidueye is C rank in UU and outclassed by a lot of Pokemon while Incineroar is B rank in NU.

>>33111417
Is this a proof that fire type need buff ? or fire starters are just extremely unlucky ?

>>33112285
It's proof that Fire starters fucking suck

>>33112282
To be fair, I just checked its usage and it's still pretty high so it won't drop. I was more referring to the fact that it's ranked D and blacklisted.
>>33112285
Fire type can only work in so many ways. Slow fire types are just kind of bad and the fast ones like Delphox and Typhlosion are still heavily outclassed and have a horrible movepool. Fire/Dark would have been amazing on a fast physical attacker.

>>33112126
Decidueye is gonna fall to RU at some point.

>>33112340
It's proof that Fire is weak to Stealth Rock. That's all.

>>33111624
>I'm just wondering why the arbitrary tier system of a website 75% of us shit on every time it's mentioned matters

No one knows that. /vp/ just suck Smogon dick because.

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>>33112285
>Is this a proof that fire type need buff ? or fire starters are just extremely unlucky ?
In general, fire type gets routinely fucked competitively. Its biggest threats are rock and ground moves. I say moves, not mons, because plenty of Pokemon who aren't rock or ground can learn the more devastating moves from that type, like Earthquake (hits everyone) and Rock Slide (hits everyone and can cause flinching).

Let's take a quick look what fire mons we got this generation:
>Incineroar: Defense is merely okay, not great. Has some Fighting moves to cover Rock enemies, but slow as fuck. HA would be useful if they could actually get it.
>Salazzle: Four times weak to ground thanks to her typing. Can outspeed most of her threats, but gets no coverage moves on them (like how Ninetails gets Energy Ball) and her defense literally doesn't exist.
>Baile Style Oricorio: Gets ground immunity in exchange for 4x weakness to rock. Faster than Incineroar but has worse defenses. Has zero coverage because it almost exclusively learns normal and flying type moves.
>Turtonator: Has great defense, but not enough HP to actually make use of it. Slow, has shit special defense. Gets a few attacks to cover its weaknesses, but its attack and special attack stats aren't anywhere near good enough to actually be effective.

You want a fire type buff? Introduce a new move. "Hot Coals". Like Toxic Spikes, except it burns enemies that switch in. Fire types are immune, water types wash the coals away. New abilities. "Overcooked" doubles damage done to burned enemies. Counter ability: "Fire Dancer": the mon can't be burned at all, regardless of its typing.

>>33111565
Delphox isn't that good in NU lol

Stop being pressed cause your ugly witch sucks. Embrace it

>>33112750
I don't get it. Delphox is an offensive fire type with 104 base speed.

How bad can it possibly be?

>>33112759
104 is not that fast for how frail it is and also it has a terrible movepool

>>33112219

>no good support moves like pursuit, knock off, hazards etc
>only usable fire stab has recoil
>not at all versatile in any way, has like 4 usable moves
If we assume that we get the same move tutors we had in ORAS, these points will most likely be taken care of.
And when that is the case...
>slow
>thinks pure bulk is the only thing that matters
...then these points might not be relevant either.

>>33112852
You know Incineroar might also not get any of those moves, right?

>>33112126
>Obvious Falesflagger brings up Decidueye out of nowhere and is trying to start a war.
>Except for ignoring him and his bait,
>You reply

One day these Falesflaggers will die. But they can't die if we keep on giving them what they want. Seriously just ignore them

>>33112879
sure, that's why I said "most likely". But I think it's safe to assume it at least gets knock off. Everything gets knock off. And fire punch for another usable fire stab.
And maybe he gets moves that will surprise us, who knows. He will get SOMETHING. Maybe it's enough to buff it, maybe not.

>>33112896
>falserfigger
YOU MEAN BARABRAPFAG!
THESE BARAS ARE FALSEFIGGING FUCKING BARAFIGS

>>33112896
Then why did you reply one and a half hour later when everyone already moved on, retard?

>>33111417
I could see sceptile getting banned later down the line, it's S rank currently. Meganium will obviously drop to PU. Incineroar will probably stay NU because of the AV set; not sure how much intimidate will help, but I can't see it higher than mid tier RU. Torterra might drop to NU, too. Delphox won't rise because salazzle's better. Everything else will probably stay put.

>>33113308
*torterra might drop to PU
I fucked up

>>33113308
>Delphox won't rise because salazzle's better
Man fuck that filthy and impure slut lizard.

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>>33113336
yeah but salazzle has a cooler design though

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>>33111417
>the only fire starter besides blaziken that's above NU

What went right?

>>33113429
Nothing. The other fire starters are just extremely shitty.

>>33113429
104/104/108 offenses, deep movepool (lots of coverage/versatility, priority in Atk and SpA), does what Greninja does now in team preview (aka unpredictability in which build they're running).

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>>33111491
>Gets intimidated
>Unzips Focus Blast

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>tfw best world bearing turtle is unsalvageable

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>>33112193
Stop necrozmaposting.

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>>33112193
stop phoneposting

>>33113429

>High speed
>Good movepool
>Nigga has Stealth Rock.
>Focus sash lead works really nice
>Band/Scarf sets are really useful when it comes to RK
>Life Orb is totally insane
>Iron fist plus the elemental punches


Game freak decided to put the lazy ass of the move and stat department to work really hard on this guy.

>>33111624
>75%
lol