>this faggot is free to roam in OU after years of terror >baton

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he keeps the meta from falling apart by being over-centralized :^)

>>32870472
>lando comes out
>i think to myself OH FUCK ITS LANDO WHERE IS MY ANSWER
>then i remember that lando checks everything and counters nothing, and proceed to hit it until it dies

>>32870468
This thing, koko, and greninja can fuck right off.

>it's a "/vp/ scrubs don't know the difference between positive and negative centralisation: the thread" episode

>>32870520
Greninja's the only one of those that is remotely broken.

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>>32870541
>positive centralization
good joke

>>32870541
>it's a "/vp/ scrubs don't know the difference between positive and negative cuckolding: the thread" episode

fuck off smogontard

Still grumbling HP Ice became a thing. I had a Bulk-Up Sub Lando that tore teams apart in gen 6.

>>32870468
what's wrong with it though? Are you triggered because it's popular or you have an actual argument of why it should be banned?
Landorus is versatile and a very good pokemon all around, but it's easily countered and checked. Just because it's good and used doesn't mean it's broken desu

>>32870574
this

>>32870553
>>32870554
first learn what those terms mean before you autistically screech thanks

negative centralisation means it takes away from the meta. aegislash being the best example of this

>>32870574
baton pass is easily countered as well, yet here we are

>>32870584
Say that to my SG Magearna's face and see what happens nerd :^)

>>32870574
>145 base attack

>easily countered

Pick one.

>>32870584
Do tell how it is easily countered. Also keep in mind "easily" means you can do it without designing your team specifically to counter it while losing to everything else.

>>32870598
another gaylord mon that needs to fuck off like landorous

>>32870611
literally use one of the multiple anti status moves

>>32870584
baton pass is "easily" countered by having the correct moves that would be wasted moveslots on most other matchups. Keep in mind BP often runs fast taunt and Magic Bounce, so it also isn't as easy.
Lando counters are useful things you'd want to have regardless.

>>32870607
His other stats aren't that great, and doesn't have a powerful spammable STAB. I'm still not seeing any arguments on what's the problem with Landorus

>>32870579
Shit example, and highlights why it's a joke. Aegislash also added to the meta in keeping Mega Medi, Mega Garde, Mega Meta, Magearna in Gen 7, and a bunch of other threats at bay.

>>32870579
what is positive centralisation though?

>>32870661
>doesn't have powerful stab

>earthquake

Gr8 b8 m8

>>32870625
Can't be used while taunted.

>>32870661
>waste a moveslot
>"waste" a moveslot to counter an entire team comp

>>32870682
your fault for getting taunted

I dont get the obsession with banning Greninja. Is it because its popular?

>>32870678
somehow you missed the word SPAMMABLE in your quote. Yes, EQ is strong, but there's no shortage of immune to ground pokemon. Without STAB, the other moves aren't too great.

>>32870786
You have a move that improves your matchup against a particular team comp over something that would be useful in more general scenarios. And again, good BP teams have ways around that, so you don't counter shit with a single move.

>>32870891
taunt, haze, etc are pretty damn useful regardless of baton pass

>>32870897
Taunt is, haze is arguable since it doesn't has a great distribution and most of the good mons that learn it prefer other moves. Also you can't just get taunt or haze somewhere on your team and think you're countering BP, you have to have multiple ways of effectively dealing with it.

>>32870818
Greninja isn't banworth people just don't like to deal with the it, even though the meta has adapted itself to it and his anime conterpart.

>>32870818
Smogon hates greninja because it gets STAB on everything, is pretty fast and has like a million sets, and each set is beaten by something different. You can just customize your frog to hit the things you want and it'll probably work out fine. I mean I kinda get why they banned it, but don't agree

>>32870468
He needs a super counter

>>32870897
nice job taunting that stored power espeon

>>32870468
fuck off verlis

>>32870584
i guess you could argue the real number one way to stop baton pass is to never give it any breathing room

>>32870818
I don't want Greninja banned. I personally think it's fun as fuck to use.

>>32871172
It probably won't get banned this time, especially when Ghostpuncher and Lopunny are smacking the tier. Though I can't say the same about Magearna.

>>32870670
Centralization that helps me win

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Remind me why this guy isnt in OU and doesn't check T-lando?

>>32871231
It does, but it also dies to pretty much everything else. Its main problem is that Ice Shard cannot kill Garchomp but Chomp's Iron Head does kill Mamoswine.

>>32870607
Literally just send in Skarmory.

>>32871231
you know what other ground type checks Landorus?
Landorus.

>>32871310
Now you've become setup bait because Skarmory can't do shit to Lando either.

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>>32871324
>Lando tries to setup
>Use Toxic, Whirlwind or both
Fuck, it's like you've never used a skarmory before.

>>32871324
>skarm being setup bait
>not running whirlwind on skarm

>>32870468
You know, as much as I dislike Landorus-T, I think OU would just crumble apart if it ever got banned.

Can we just abandon Gen 7 and go back to Gen 6 instead?

>>32871324
>being this low elo.

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>>32871827

>>32870971
>what is literally any dark type

>>32870670
Something that prevent strong threats from becoming broken.

>>32870818

i don't play ou so i might be wrong, but it's because it cant be countered and has no reliable checks. every coverage move it has is viable and it could be battle bond. even something that would seem to be a reliable counter, like chansey, is beaten by low kick. since greninja has dozens of viable sets, there's no consistent counter play

I don't think Lando is too broken but i would still like to see how OU would look like without it.

>>32870921
Its hard to prep for Gren because there is almost nothing that checks all sets. Other mons have room for like one coverage move you don't know so its not that hard to guess/scout.

Gren on the other hand can really be anything. It can have STAB Gunk or Low Kick to deal with certain counters, can setup hazards and then you have Specs Dark Pulse or Hydro to nuke almost anything, even AV Tangrowth gets raped by Ice Beam on the switch, Specs Shuriken can easily sweep in the lategame etc

I like Gren but i can totally see why people think its too good. Often you're already in a bad spot or lost a mon when you know the set.

>>32870468
Desu, He's been in most legal competitive formats for so long that if you're STILL having trouble with him, then you are either a newfag or have never learned from past experiences.

>>32873957
there are literally two relevant formats, VGC which allowed mega rayquaza and the aformentioned retard smogon

>>32871231
Because Lando checks itself. Lando has basically driven every other Ground Type out of OU if they can't do something it can.

Thousands Arrows keeps Zygarde there.
Rapid Spin and being one of the only viable Steel Offensive presences that a Lele can't switch in for free keeps Excadrill there.
Rough Skin + Rocky Helmet and a movepool to rival Lando-T keeps Garchomp there.

Every other Ground Type was driven out of OU by it basically being able to do anything they do better

>>32870468
Literally git gud
Greninja is more of a threat
Lele is more of a threat
Do you seriously not carry anything with ice beam or HP ice?

>>32873967
Yes, and in those two formats, Landorus has been a relevant threat in every instance that he was allowed, barring the year Mega-Fug was allowed because dear God that was awful.

My point still standing, git gud, git used to it, or git out. How can you not be used to it after nearly five straight years of play?

>>32871827
Would OU falling apart really be a bad thing in the long run?

>>32874040
You could "get used" to almost every Uber. So just unban everything ?

I think Lando is fine but that argument is retarded

>>32871827
OU is fucking trash right now, let it crash and burn hopefully we'll get something better once the fires stop

>>32873584
switch in magerna or azumaril and proceed to set up

>>32874097
You cant though, thats the point.

>>32874097
Perhaps I should have rephrased...my b.

If I may articulate, I have a lack of understanding of the belief that landorus should be banned for being "over centralizing." I get that he's on damn near every team. But, I don't believe it's because he is "too good." I think it's because he's very consistent. There is a distinction to be made there between being broken and being consistent.

Sure, if something is consistently kicking everyone's ass no matter what alternative tactic they try, then yes it's broken.

But Lando-T doesn't do that. He's a good intimidater, rock setter, and blanket check. But never really an outright counter or difficult to deal with. He's good at what he does without being broken, IMO.

If you have trouble with him, then you either lack experience, or refuse to learn.

>>32870468

what is lv1 rattata?

>>32874191
An easily exploitable strat?

>>32874191
>gen 4 memes

hey guise check out my swords dance scizor xD

>>32871332
>>32871334
>>32873511
+2 252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 265-312 (79.5 - 93.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
>Fuck, it's like you've never used a skarmory before.

>>32874354
>Skarmory used Counter!

>>32874377
>Countering when you're dead
Come on anon it's like you aren't even trying

>>32873555
>what is Dazzling Gleam
>>32874127
Azumarill is destroyed by Gunk Shot
Ass vest Magearna gets 36.6 - 42.9% from HP Fire so that looks like a check at best
>>32874144
The main problem with Lando in Gen7 are Z-Moves. They are driving it out of OU and, while I didn't see it broken last gen (only consistent, as you say and pretty good) it is walking towards the "too good it might be broken" zone.

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>>32870541
>/vp/ doesn't know the difference between two things I just made up
Color me surprised

>>32874144
Not the same anon you were talking to before but,

It's not about if Landorus-T is "Too good to be allowed", or "Good, but not good enough to ban".
It's that Smogon bans are supposed to be based off usage, and 42% of players over ranked over 1695 use it on their teams. That means if you play four games not on the lower ladder, you're gonna see at least one Landorus-T, probably closer to two.
http://www.smogon.com/stats/2017-05/gen7ou-1695.txt

Now if we go back before the ban, you'll see that Scolipede was used on 3% of teams, and Mew was used on 2% of teams.
http://www.smogon.com/stats/2017-04/gen7ou-1695.txt

Plus when you see a team with Scolipede you know exactly what it's going to do. When you see a team with Landorus-T you don't know what set they are running; Smogon has five viable sets listed.
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/landorus-therian/

Even if you put the usage stats for Scolipede and Mew, 5% is one Batonpass team every twenty matches above 1695.

Baton Pass wasn't even used enough to ban.

>>32874535
bans aren't based off usage. tiering is based off usage.

>>32874545
Tiering and bans are one in same, instead of "Banned" I could just say, "Promoted to Ubers".
I digress.

>>32874582
>Tiering and bands are one in the same

But that's where your disconnect is, anon. They are correlative but not causative.

>>32874582
ubers isn't a tier based on usage though. and no, tiering and bans aren't the same.

>>32870611
>Also keep in mind "easily" means you can do it without designing your team specifically to counter it
>None of us want to make teams that counter things we don't think of or care about. Therefore it's unfair. Quick Smogon, ban it!
>Implying that setting up does not require outplaying your opponent

The pokemon community, let alone the smogon community is fucking childish cancer. Literally, their mods keep muting and banning people and their usernames over the tiniest of things. They just abuse their powers because it makes 'em feel good I guess. So sad.

I wonder how long it'll be before Uber contains 80% of the game and they inevitably have to make sub-tiers in Uber, creating a new tier'd meta within a tier because everything keeps getting banned. So funny.

Smogonfags are a joke
Everyone else can see it, but themselves

>>32874686
Well have fun playing your officially supported 6v6 meta...oh shit, wait.

NB4 VGC and BSS fags flag in because 6v6 was THE only way to go at it way back in the day. It's the root of competitive. GF all but abandoned it. It was up to the fans to support since GF refuses.

I'm not asking for official tournaments. But just a place on the cart to play some 6v6 ranked battles. Is that too much to ask? I hate fighting randos on the cart for 6v6 and Smogon's the only ones that allow for ranks and skilled matchmaking. I don't agree with their policies, but its the only place I can fight people who aren't fucking scrubs....most of the time once you get high enough on the ladder.

>>32874734
>It's the root of competitive. GF all but abandoned it.
wrong

Even before double battles were a thing, the few official competitive tournaments were held in a "bring 6, choose 4" fashion. 6v6 is just way too tournament-unfriendly to ever become a thing. Even though it wouldn't cost GF anything to implement a 6v6 ladder system

>>32873866
The thing about Prot-Greninja is while it has a shitton of coverage it can't cover everything. Defogers like Mew and Mantine are gaining traction because ninja can't afford the coverage for them since that means something else gonna hard stop it easily, drop HP Fire bulk steels laugh at you, drop extrasensory Keldeo and Toxapex stop you with no problem, you mentioned Low Kick to deal with certain mons and Water shuriken for priority both are sub-par options since one make you give up more useful coverage while puting you with a bad defensive type and only hitting chansey and tyranitar as relevant targets and the other is pretty weak unless you're the battle bond frog.
Prot-Greninja only has two moves you really need to guess since beyond meme phys only sets its mandatory Gunkshot for fairies and a way to hit ground types in Hydro or Ice beam after that is easy to guess the rest from what the team needs down to go crazy, the spikes set its so predictable you only need to guess if one move between Hp Fire or dark pulse since either it needs to fuck Thron and M-Scizor or needs to stop Mew which is the best defoger of the tier right now.

The Battle-bond frog is the worse of the two, while powerful after it gets a kill it needs one to become a real threat which is kinda hard when you're have a average power which even with a specs can't really scratch the bulkier fairies, grass and water types of the tier.

The meta has adapted itself for the frogs and while they still remain as very good mons they don't have the same impact as the lion of healty meta, the iron maiden or the dragon of spamming arrows who need very little to no support to tear the meta appart. While I can understand Lando-T being ignored since the meta would become even worse, Magearna looks very suspect whorty and Zygarde comes next.

>>32874616
You and I could go back and forth on this all night. So, I'll just make my point.

Landorus-T is in the OU Tier which is based on usage. It's usage is at 42%, which is 22% higher than the next most used OU Pokemon.
Landorus-T is viable in Ubers, and is used 1% of the time.
http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/landorus-therian/uber/
http://www.smogon.com/stats/2017-05/gen7ubers-1630.txt

Landorus-T deserved to be banned more than Baton Pass.

>>32870818
It outspeeds everything, has a move for everything, and gets stab on everything. To a lesser degree there's also some prediction involved because if you prepare for Protean when it's running Battle Bond you're gonna get fucked.
Why this was ever unbanned in the first place is a mystery.

>>32874652
yeh, how dare they ban things, how dare they make rules, it's much more interesting when everyone uses megafug and 5 anti-megafug support mons

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>>32870468
Do...do you love me now OP?

>>32875089
Loool, way to blow things out of proportion. I love competitive gaming communities, and I totally believe in rules that reward the skill of the players, but aside from the fact that Pokemon has so many issues that mean it just can't be played competitively, banning everything based on a community agreement of "I think this is broken and unfair" and "But I don't know how to counter it"/"I don't want to counter it" (in a game about variety and countering shit, might I add), then it just becomes a very foolish and childish community filled with hate and toxicity.

Even if Pokemon WERE truly competitive, the variety doesn't allow for a "best possible team", which is what smogon seems to be striving for through banning everything to suit their teams.

FORTY TWO PERCENT

>>32875259
actually you're completely and utterly wrong to the most absolute degree
everything that causes a "best possible team" to appear is banned because they strive for the the "most possible teams"

they're banning things that are so good every team would either contain it or contain a direct counter to it

>>32875321
It's all moot anyway, the game can't be played competitively. It punishes skillful play too much.

>>32875360

>make game in which rng frequently affects the outcomes of matches
>try to create competitive formats of the game

why is gf so bad at everything

>>32875402
I'm surprised that there's one other sane person in the community, let alone here on /vp/, that acknowledges this.

Although, gf are just making the game, they don't give a fuck about competitive formats. It's all the Smogon fagets and VGC niggas that think the game is worth something, even after someone wins grands because of a random crit.

>>32874206
?

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>>32874907

Let's say lando gets banned. What happens to OU?

>>32875473

gamefreak sponsors vgc. gamefreak is responsible for the prevelance of england in the game while also pushing its own competitive format. i actually appreciate the effort smogon puts into trying to balance the game for singles, but i still acknowledge the pokémon has huge inherent faults as a competitive game

>>32875595

*gamefreak is responsible for the prevalence of rng in the game

>/vp/ is still stuck back in ORAS where Greninja was banned for murdering everything with LO 4 Attacks sets
Get with the times gramps. The new additions make purely offensive Greninja's life a lot harder than before. It's considered banworthy not because of its huge speed + wallbreaking prowess, but because it's a stupidly fast Spikes setter with coverage + Protean to murder every single hazard remover available, therefore centralising the tier around hazard stacking.