Which group was the bigger mistake? Do you think there's

>>32749117

What's wrong with the Sinnoh legends?

They're just the Pokeverse's creator deities

>>32749117
>implying loli jellyfish, Jojo skeeter, Turkish kickboxer, dancing christmas tree, grorious nippon paper forded one mirrion times, Kaguya, and Hungry Hombre were mistakes

>>32749154
Hungry Hombre was a mistake considering it's rotting in PU

UBs are just things from another dimension. The other group is a bunch of "higher" legendaries that control space and time, and a singular pokegod the universe revolves around. I think UBs have a higher chance of being retconned, but the addition of the creation trio feel a bit limiting for new lore.

>>32749117
Sinnoh legends are somewhat overdesigned and possibly (canonically) overpowered

Ultra beasts do not even resemble Pokemon and belong in a different series altogether

>>32749148
>literally gods
>stuck in a ball to be the playthings of a child

>>32749148
Arceusfags are insufferable and deluded. See >>32749168

It's really hard to tip

God
Time
Space
Devil

Concepts it's like highest power monsters can have

>>32749117
The left. That sort of power creep in terms of lore was downright retarded especially since something similar already happened in the previous generation. Felt really uninspired.

>>32749117
The sinnoh legendaries, UB's only mistake is being called ''not pokemon'' while they were being announced.

>>32749148
That's the problem, i don't think we had any need of those in the game, adding a ''god'' to the pokemon universe adds nothing but unnecessary cock sucking.
Also i think Dialga and Palkia's designs are really bad

>>32749203
Do you know how to read? I don't even like Arceus and my post implies I don't like how it's seen as THE "pokegod".

>>32749117
>>32749148
>>32749154
>>32749160
>>32749168
>>32749178
>>32749185
>>32749203
>>32749214
>>32749224
>>32749228

You have to look at it from this perspective. Gen 4 were supposed to be the LAST Pokemon games according to Tajiri. They were the final chapter that closed the book started with Gen 1. Of course introducing gods seemed like an okay concept. Gen 5 was after all a reboot. Gen 5 was supposed to be the new Gen 1, with new lore and new "gods" down the line.

Obviously someone at Game Freak (Masuda) shoved in cock in enough people's mouths and got this all ruined though.

>>32749253
>Gen 4 were supposed to be the LAST Pokemon games according to Tajiri
Citation needed.

>>32749266
literally google it

They are both my favorite groups. Interdimensional stuff is really cool to me.

>>32749271
>I think you're full of shit, so give me a source
>y-you do it

>>32749253
>Gen 4 were supposed to be the LAST Pokemon games according to Tajiri
What the fuck? That was gen 2, that's why he left after it.

>>32749281
>left
He did not "leave" he is still CEO of Game Freak he just stopped being the director
he had the concept of Gen 2, 3, and 4 all by the time Gen 2 was released

>>32749293
Where is the source for your bullshit claims? The burden of proof lies on you.

>>32749117
Legendary pantheon bullshit was a mistake. Ultra Beasts are just nifty ayy lmaos.

>>32749293
>He did not "leave" he is still CEO of Game Freak he just stopped being the director
He's the executive director, I know as much. He's just not as involved as with the first two gens, he literally stepped to a side and left the direction of the games to Masuda exactly at gen 3.

>he had the concept of Gen 2, 3, and 4 all by the time Gen 2 was released
[Citation needed]

>>32749309
wrong
masuda directed crystal

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>>32749293
No

>>32749329
THE POKEMON COMPANY IS NOT GAME FREAK LMAO

>>32749329
The Pokémon Company = Nintendo, Game Freak, and Creatures

Each company is its own entity.

https://www.gamefreak.co.jp/company/about.html
>代表取締役 田尻 智 (Representative Director: Satoshi Tajiri)

Not him, by the way.

>>32749329
>http://www.gamefreak.co.jp/company/about.html
>代表者 代表取締役 田尻 智
>Satoshi Tajiri Representative Director

The Pokémon Company International is not Game Freak newfag. The Pokémon Company is a Japanese company that is responsible for marketing and licensing the Pokémon franchise. Game Freak makes the games. Dipshit

>>32749328
I stand myself corrected, Masuda directed Crystal. This is just a theory but maybe Tajiri did the same with Masuda as Masuda later did with Ohmori before handing the following generation to them.

Either way, Crystal does seem like more of an afterthought than something they had planned before GS for several reasons; most namely, the mascot was Suicune which does not fit the trio mons released in later iterations.

Still, my point is that Tajiri planned to step to a side from directing Pokémon and by gen 3 Masuda became the main director.

>>32749329
TPC is not GF you dumbass.

>>32749344
The Pokémon Company International is the non-Asian branch of The Pokémon Company and formed by merging Pokémon USA with Pokémon UK. Don't confuse the two.

>>32749350
Tajiri stepping aside from directing never removed him from involvement with the games. Pokemon is still HIS. He has power over all. I have no doubt in my mind the overarching plot of the Japanese region games (KanJohHoeSin) were all planned ahead of time by Tajiri.

>>32749253
nice fanfiction. the classic tale of the brilliant autist creator who got ruined by editors/producers/directors

they were never going to remove pokemon in gen 5

>>32749367
>remove
nobody ever said remove
what they WERE going to do was set Gen 5 in an alternate universe and then bridge the two

>>32749350
>I stand myself corrected, Masuda directed Crystal.
Do note that the English version credits don't make this obvious due to perhaps an oversight caused by copy-pasting text from Gold and Silver. Always check the original Japanese versions to confirm.

>>32749375
Again, where is your source? You keep claiming this without having any sort of proof.

>>32749389
Move to Japan. Everybody here knows it.

>>32749375
no they weren't. it's your own little fan fiction

>you know, toriyama was originally going to end the series with freeza, but his evil director masuda forced him to continue
>I don't have any source for this because it's a complete fabrication, but I don't like post-freeza so it's true

>>32749359
>Tajiri stepping aside from directing never removed him from involvement with the games. Pokemon is still HIS. He has power over all.
You're wrong. What is actually his is Game Freak; he's the CEO. However he has no inference in the story plots (which is the role of the respective game directors) or how things are going to be commercialized (which I believe is the role of producers). The creation of new Pokémon is in charge of the creative team and the art director. He doesn't even program the games; that's what developers are for.

He has power over running the entire company by setting goals and overseeing their progress, as well as approving executive decisions and creating business strategies.

And even then, The Pokémon Company is shared by GF, Creatures (Tajiri doesn't work here) and Nintendo (Tajiri doesn't work here either), so he doesn't have full power over the franchise because it's shared over many stakeholders.

>I have no doubt in my mind the overarching plot of the Japanese region games (KanJohHoeSin) were all planned ahead of time by Tajiri.
Post source.

>KanJohHoeSin
So you want to make us cringe, too.

>>32749377
I didn't even read the credits after Crystal, so it was my own ignorance but I do remember having read somewhere else Masuda was the director of Crystal.

>>32749395
So you have no source and are speaking straight from your ass, got it.

>>32749436
how the fuck would you remember the credits now even if you did

it's been what 16 years

>>32749478
Yeah, that too.

>>32749117
>Threw power creep out the window
>Terrible, irredeemable designs unfitting with the rest of the pokedex
>Needed a major change in the lore structure in order to be included in the games
Yeah I think it's pretty evident Ultra Beasts were the mistake here.

>>32749478
Bulbapedia

>>32749491
>Threw power creep out the window
So did the genies and several other overpowered mons in the past. It's just the devs thinking we actually need them.

>Terrible, irredeemable designs unfitting with the rest of the pokedex
I think that's exactly the point. How else are you going to design entities from other dimensions? By making them blend with the rest of the pokédex?

>Needed a major change in the lore structure in order to be included in the games
I don't think they're "changing the lore structure" so much as they are actually steering the entire universe to include multiverses, and this started at gen IV with Dusknoir mentioning another realm and Giratina and its Reverse World. The Ultra Space is just another addition to this multiverse lore.

>>32749556
>We had power creep in the past so let's increase it!
Not an excuse

>I think that's exactly the point.
Just because it has a reason doesn't mean it's a good idea. If we could've been spared trash designs at the cost of not having interdimensional creatures I would've taken it.

>The Ultra Space is just another addition to this multiverse lore.
Which we didn't really need, now we have retards reading too much into it left and right and coming up with shitty headcanons because of GF's shitty fanfic-tier lore additions.

>>32749621
>Not an excuse
Not excusing the powercreep. Just telling you that this isn't either new or exclusive of Ultra Beasts.

>If we could've been spared trash designs at the cost of not having interdimensional creatures I would've taken it.
>Which we didn't really need
Gonna answer to these at once because they're intertwined. You're outright saying that a multidimensional lore is a bad idea. However, GF is clearly heading into this direction and they're showing no signals of stopping, so either accepting this will be the case for the upcoming generations or outright dropping the franchise are your best choices.

>catching god
yeah... CreaTri were one big mistake

UlBea are a mistake too but UlSuUlMo has the chance to redeem them

>>32749621
Your second point is wrong. Art, and what dictates a good or bad design is subjective, just because you don't like them doesn't mean they are in fact bad.

This is so fucking obvious, I'm talking to a child here.

>>32749670
why don't we just have a pokemon that is literally anthropomorphized feces then? if you don't like its design thats just your opinion

>>32749643
>Not excusing the powercreep.
And just because it's not new or exclusive to them doesn't mean it can't be another reason why they're deemed a mistake.

>Accepting this will be the case for the upcoming generations or outright dropping the franchise are your best choices.
Except they aren't retard, reminder that there are older Pokémon games that are playable and far more replayable than the latest releases. I don't have to drop the series because I refuse to eat the dogshit Gamefreak has decided to put out there as of late.

>>32749687
We do. They are called Muk and Grimer.

And you also stated my point. Just because someone thinks something is good/bad that doesn't mean it is in fact good/bad.

>>32749702
no we don't. they aren't shit

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>>32749687
You called?

>>32749692
>And just because it's not new or exclusive to them doesn't mean it can't be another reason why they're deemed a mistake.
Not gonna follow this line of thought because it leads to nowhere. I'm not excusing anything but criticizing the UBs exclusively for it is a bit overreaching.

>Except they aren't retard, reminder that there are older Pokémon games that are playable and far more replayable than the latest releases. I don't have to drop the series because I refuse to eat the dogshit Gamefreak has decided to put out there as of late.
In short you don't have to keep up with the new games and stay a nostalgiafag of the "old better times". Which is essentially dropping the series.

>>32749670
>Art can't be seen from an objective point of view
Sick of this meme. It can when you're trying to market it to millions upon millions of people part of a playerbase, be it a loyal following or new people. Sure there is a subjective factor when it comes to art, but that doesn't stop Youkai Watch creatures from being terrible does it? Talking to a child might actually be an honor for an autist like you.

>>32749726
>but that doesn't stop Youkai Watch creatures from being terrible does it?
They may not be to our preference but children clearly like them. When they grow up they will have fond memories of YW and how they liked Jibanyan.

Art keeps being subjective.

>>32749117
Ultra Beasts have way more interesting designs.

>>32749734
so why don't we just have evey pokemon be a different type of anthropomorphized shit? we can have diarrhoeamon, rabbit pellet mon, big fat log mon

it's all subjective after all, it's no worse than anything else

>>32749716
>Not gonna follow this line of thought because it leads to nowhere.
No, you're not following because you're simply unable to. Other groups might have this problem but a. We're not talking other groups, we're talking ultra beasts (I do not, for one, defend or like genies) and b. It adds to the many reasons that make me deem ultra beasts a mistake overall. If it was the only reason you'd have a point but it isn't.

>Which is essentially dropping the series.
Dropping the series = not playing it at all. I can still play the older games and criticize the new games objectively if I so choose to.

>nostalgiafag
And now you're just spouting memes. Newsflash nostalgia doesn't have to be involved in order to appreciate how good a game is, retard.

>>32749734
Yeah, but Pokémon isn't marketed to children exclusively and hasn't been for years, everyone knows this. Art is subjective but not when you're trying to sell it. No one buys a pile of dogshit with "masterpiece" labelled on it.

>>32749117
>Which group was the bigger mistake?
Neither, stop being such a big baby.

>Do you think there's any chance they'll ever be retconned out of the universe?
Literally zero.
If your problem with the creation trio is 'overly designed' and 'doesn't fit in the pokemon universe' then get ready to get even saltier, the sinnoh remakes are only going to 'over design' them more and give them more lore.

>>32749748
>so why don't we just have evey pokemon be a different type of anthropomorphized shit? we can have diarrhoeamon, rabbit pellet mon, big fat log mon
Strawman fallacy. Drop that shit.

>>32749771
>No, you're not following because you're simply unable to
No, I clearly get what you're saying. I'm saying it's just not as much of an issue - it's normal at this point to have a group of overly powered Pokémon that also are not banned in tournaments. I'm also saying there are worse offenders, like many Pokémon not having a movepool that go along with their stats.

>Dropping the series = not playing it at all.
Dropping the series, as it is now, is also dropping it. You don't have to drop something "entirely".

>criticize the new games objectively
>objectively
lel your criticism isn't objective, get over yourself.

>Newsflash nostalgia doesn't have to be involved in order to appreciate how good a game is, retard.
In your case that's clearly how it goes. You do not view the strengths of the new games as they are, you only do so by comparing them with the older games. Nostalgiafag.

>>32749786
>but Pokémon isn't marketed to children exclusively and hasn't been for years, everyone knows this.
Surprise surprise, Pokémon may not be marketed to children exclusively... but mainly, it is. Besides, the YW thing was an example.

>Art is subjective but not when you're trying to sell it
You don't know what art is. It is subjective to the eyes of the beholder. Older people like the older drawings of Pokémon (i.e. old Sugimori style) because it reminds us of old fantasy books; the newer drawings are marketed to children because cutesy and over-the-top designs are what sells.

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I like both cos they look damn cool and I like the themes. I just wish Gamefreak would stop the unnecessary hype and 'wacky new ideas guis!!!', and the constant new concepts brought every year to revive interest i.e.
>megas
>primal forms
>alolan forms
>ultra beasts
>NECROZMA ARMOUR

when all we want is a good story, fun extras and a hot grill to draw hentai of

>>32749810
how is it a strawman? would you not like poopmon? I think we should have an entire regionaldex of just poopmon and if you disagree that's a valid opinion but no less valid than mine since art is subjective

>>32749491
>le UBs are crazy power creep meme
Anyone who spouts this is confirmed to be an underage retard wowed by big numbers. Pheromosa is broken in singles and shitty in dubs. Celesteela is maybe a wee bit too good in any format and team. Guzzlord is a pure shitmon. The rest range from mediocre to pretty good depending on format.

>>32749869
>hot pokemon to draw hentai of
FTFY

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>>32749117
>>32749185
There is no mistake in GameFreak's or TPCi's eyes. The board of executives and marketing teams who decide what gets put into the game don't care about the fucking "lore." There will always be new and super powerful epic Pokemon and it doesn't matter that Arceus is already the Pokemon God because as far as GF is concerned he stopped existing as soon as they started making Black and White. Yeah, there may still be people at GF who care, like Sugimori, but they don't call the shots anymore. They're not in charge. Pokemon is a multi-billion dollar franchise and can't risk being a "creative vision" anymore and hasn't been one since Gen 2. Just like Gundam and DBZ and myriad other things that started off as the vision of a single man with a story to tell, it got too big and the reigns were taken away so that loads of money could keep being made for decades. What's Tajiri supposed to say, "No, don't make me millions of dollars while I sit at home and do nothing?" All he can do is wash his hands clean of it and say goodbye, and let the suits have their big Pokemon money maker.

>>32749185
>literally dragons and legendaries and giant mutant animals stuck in a ball to be playthings of a child
where did i already see that?!!

>>32749117
the UBs fot being awful designs except of Celesteela, Kartana and Nihilego