So why did Sun and Moon go back to naming the protagonists after

>>32714579
Because they're from Kanto, where its characters are named Red and Blue.

>>32714579
Sun and Moon aren't even their official names they just don't have one. I assume it's to let people self insert themselves in instead, but that's fucking retarded since you can name your characters what ever you want anyway.

Because SM didn't have default names for the MCs, hence fans just named them after the titles

Because they don't actually have names you faggot. They're blank slate playable characters.

The others characters only have names because they show up as NPCs at some point in the game.

>>32714602
>Because they don't actually have names you faggot
That just proves my point though. Ever since 1999 they've bothered giving characters names, and they just stopped doing it. Without any names, they're named after the versions by default, hence Red and Blue (and Green/Leaf, which was another odd occurrence since she was made during the time the protagonists were being named).

>>32714591
>>32714595
>>32714602
I mean, not like he was explicitly called "Sun" in the demo. An official piece of game, made by GameFreak, to show the game. Unlike But no, it doesn't matter, because why would it, right? That one time that one demo released on a MUCH smaller scale was wrong. And we know it was wrong because it was later changed back to Brendan and they stopped using Orlando. That MUST mean this time the name given to him was also wrong, and they just haven't stopped using Sun yet. They will though. It just can't be his name.
But since Sun's name hasn't been changed, it must be changed sometime, right? It can't stay Sun. That's just unthinkable. They have no names. The names they used and are still using don't count. They names they are still using in media and used in the game itself just can't be their names.

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>>32714579
Their names in the internal data are Kai and Lana.

The only reason we don't use these names are because in English they named a different character Lana and it'd be confusing.


The Japanese often call them You (ヨウ) and Mizuki (ミヅキ) though. Those are their tags on Pixiv. Those were their beta names from trailers and such. If we followed along with them we SHOULD be calling them Elio and Selene. Just never caught on I guess?

>>32714932
Glad we agree.

Also, the new protagonists have nothing to do with PlayerMale and PlayerFemale from Sun Moon. They are completely different characters.

>>32715178
>Also, the new protagonists have nothing to do with PlayerMale and PlayerFemale from Sun Moon. They are completely different characters

We can't agree, you are retarded.

>>32714584
fuck me for saying this but, fpbp

>>32715162
Elio and Selene. Yup, that's right.

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>>32715162
The Japanese liked the name You and Mizuki, because they were Japanese names and easier to use than Sun and Moon in Japanese, so they went with it. I don't like the name Elio, and I hate Selene because it's too similar to Serena. Plus Elio was used a total of one time, and only when Sun was already in use and they needed an extra name. So I stuck with Sun and Moon.

As for Kai and Lana, I would fine with them. I just don't use them because GF hasn't. They used Sun and Moon in every piece of media featuring the protagonists and are doing so even now. If GF is sticking with Sun and Moon and ignoring Kai and Lana, I have no reason to go against that.

>>32714646
>That just proves my point though. Ever since 1999 they've bothered giving characters names

Only NPC characters. Never player characters.

>>32714932
>The names they used and are still using don't count

But they're not using them. They have no names.

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>>32715225
Taken from the Global Link site. They're calling them Sun and Moon. They also called them Sun and Moon in literally every trailer and the demo.
If GF and TPC is calling them Sun and Moon, what reason do you have for saving they have no name?

>>32715234
>>32715234
>If GF and TPC is calling them Sun and Moon, what reason do you have for saving they have no name?

Because they're the player character. They're named by the player. They have no official name. Whatever name they put in screenshots is a placeholder because the game requires it.

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the moon

>>32715234
They literally called Nate and Rosa "Black2" and "White2" in some screenshots as well. It's just a placeholder name for all intents and purposes, because the localization team was never given a reason to come up with new names. Not saying we shouldn't be using them, they ARE the best thing we have, but just saying, their screenshots are far from "final decision".

If they decide in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon to have the opposite gender character appear as an NPC for even 5 seconds and they do have a name, the names we use will be switched basically overnight.

>>32714932
>all that passive-aggressiveness
Calm down nigger

>>32715304
It is the "final decision" unless they give other names. Yes, Black2 and White2 were ridiculous. But they were changed. If they hadn't been changed, the ridiculous Black2 and White2 would've been their official names. Because they were officially used. That's how this works.

Sun and Moon, though, have not been changed. There's nothing that even hints at those not being their names and used them in official media, making them their official names. This isn't just the localization team taking liberties. They're using the same in Japanese media.

In the scenario you presented, you just assumed that if they appear in USM, they will have different names. There's no basis to that belief and there's plenty of reason to not believe that. If they appear in USM as NPCs, they might just be called Sun and Moon and nothing will be changed. But if they do appear with different names, only then would Sun and Moon be officially not their names. Until then, they are being called Sun and Moon by company that made them, so assuming they're intended names is the most obvious way to go about it.

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>>32715349
>assuming

They're still not their actual names. They're placeholders. Names that are in screenshots don't mean jack. By this logic you're basically saying their names also Selene and Elio. Player characters have no names; they're blank slates. Only NPCs have names.

>>32715377
>By this logic you're basically saying their names also Selene and Elio
Or you can say that the black kid is named Elio. Because that's not the official version of Sun. That's a far more logical way to look at it. And it involves no assumptions. You literally see the black kid named Elio, while the main Sun is still called Sun.

>>32714579
Mainly because the opposite gender of the character you play as never appear in the game. That hasn't been the case since FRLG

But it's also because the international teams scrubbed their ingame names (Kai and Lana) instead of translating or at least keeping them in the code. And by that point the nips were already too used to You and Mizuki to accept the other names.

>>32715392
>the international teams
Wait, so they are called Kai and Lana in Japanese media?

>>32715383
There is no "official version of Sun." They're all the same player character.

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>>32715430
This thing is literally called the official art for a reason. This is the default one they made, the one they intended to use, while the others were just extra options. Case in point, the use it every time. Even in the demo. Even the former GF employee Ohmura drew this version.
You're just grasping at straws at this point, anon.

>>32715437
They key word is "default"

"Default" doesn't mean "this is the only design for the player character."

Both of them are equally as much the player character and equally as official. That's the point. It's a blank slate. Also it's called official art because it's art they officially use in their media. It doesn't mean what you think it means.

>You're just grasping at straws at this point, anon.
I'm not the one trying to autistically attach official names to characters that don't have official names.

>>32715409
The japanese versions have the names "Kai and Lana" in the game's code, but it's never seen anywhere during the actual game. In other languages instead of those names there's only blank spaces.

>>32715474
>They key word is "default"
Of course it fucking is. The "default" is what we're looking for. In other words, the one intended to be the go-to name. You could fucking name your fucking rivals until recently. Does that mean Hugh has no name? No, it fucking doesn't. It means his default name, the one intended by the company making the games was Hugh, but you can have it be anything in your game. The reason he had a default name was to IDENTIFY him. Which is what names are fucking supposed to do. The "default" is the one that matters.

Honestly, I'm done. Now you're even moving goal post. The names they're used to identify are Sun and Moon, decided by the company that fucking CREATED them, and you spouting your bullshit excuses for not accepting that means jack shit.

>>32715503
>In other words, the one intended to be the go-to name

There is no "intended go-to name" for the player character. It's left blank when you select a name.

Note how "Hugh" is never actually named as "Hugh" in any of the promotional material. They just say he's the rival character. If they wanted him to be officially named Hugh they would just say Hugh. At least with Hugh you can make the case that his name is already filled in before the player changes it. But with the player character it's completely blank. There is no official name. There is no official appearance either. They just chose one arbitrarily to repeatedly draw because there has to be one for placeholding purposes.


>Now you're even moving goal post.
No I'm not. I've had the same position since your autism started. Is "moving goal posts" something people here just mindlessly spout when they're losing arguments?

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>>32715234

Read the manga

>>32715607
In XY you the one you didn't choose becomes a named NPC. SM is the first one since FRLG to break that trend

player characters without official names:

RGBY FRLG girl
GSC boy (has name in HGSS)
Crystal girl (Lyra is not her)
GSC HGSS rival
SM boy and girl

until GF introduces them as NPCs, they're unnamed characters; preset name choices, random promotional media, demo/pre-release media, and internal data are all unreliable and inconsistent

>>32717038
>GSC HGSS rival
I'm pretty sure silver is his offical name.

>>32717107
it isn't, Crystal only defaults to calling him Silver because GF developed the game from Gold

if you give him a blank name:

GC: Silver
S: Gold
HG: Soul
SS: Heart

they don't refer to him by his name anywhere

actually, in GSC, after the first battle, he calls himself ??? and the question marks are just regular text (so even if you cheat to name him before the battle, he'll still say that his name is ???)

in FRLG, he's referred to as Giovanni's kid but that's it

>>32717038
Wasn't Kris' name mentioned on the back cover of Crystal?

>>32717186
only of the American English cover, the UK/Australian cover etc. (it's the same game everywhere when it comes to English) doesn't say that and the other languages don't say it either

also, Kurisu in Japanese Crystal is the default name for both boy and girl (on the list where you can choose the name or when you give an empty name); they simply spelled it different in English so that the boy is Chris and the girl is Kris

>>32718814
Pokémon Adventures canon != game canon

>>32718814
I remember when /vp/ all tried to bully the translator and his team to rename her into Chicken-chan.

Tried to set up a raid on his blog was a really low blow.

>>32718829
>Tried to set up a raid
Kek.
Crt is a good man, but he has the shittest taste possible, so he deserves some bullying from time to time.

>>32718857
oops i mean to say trying

idk who he is other than people meme that he's the red x leaf guy and he does the manga stuff

sm manga doesnt interest me at all with the mc being :3 all day

>>32718871
I got what you tried to say. I just found it funny how you actually took the meme seriously.

And Crt is a nice guy. He's one of the more reasonable people in PokeSpe threads. He just has shit taste in certain things and he's one of those extreme shippers. From RedLeaf autism, coupled with his passive aggressive behavoir when he sees Red or Leaf with ANY other character, to him being a Krisfag.
As for not reading PokeSpe, that's a shame. SM has had the best start, in my opinion. Though your reason for not reading is understandable. Sun has THE most annoying face when he makes the :3 face. He's a pretty good character otherwise though. Only a few chapters in and he's turning into a personal favorite, despite the annoyances.

>>32719053
Red x Blue is great taste. Yellow is such a Mary Sue.

I hope SM picks up the pace. 1 24 page chapter per month is so slow.

>>32719053
Kris is great though, anon.

>>32714579
Honestly I don't know why they didn't name her Luna. Male MC could've been Sol or Saul or something.

>>32719398
they didn't give either one of them names

>>32719343
Even if Yellow is shit, it doesn't make RedxBlue better. Besides, I think he was referring to how much of an autistic shipper Crt is. He was against the idea of even Red and Green appearing together in SM. He wanted Blue. This type of behavior is what makes shippers cancer.
And yeah, SM needs to pick up production pace. Even those who like it hate waiting a full month for it.

>>32719433
I thought he said he didn't want any of them to show up and wanted Y to appear because of her Greninja was revealed to have battle bond.

>>32719466
He wanted to replace Sina and Dexio with X and Y. That part, pretty much everyone agrees on. Sina and Dexio a shit.

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>>32719378
Kris IS best girl.

>>32719433
>>32719466
>>32719481
I think he's also mentioned that he wants Yellow to appear over Red and Blue. I might be remembering wrong though.

>>32719429
I am aware. I still don't understand why they didn't name them Sol/Saul and Luna. They would have been fitting names. Instead they have no names.

>>32719538
I think he noted that a lot of fans in Japanese asked during the fan meet up wanted yellow and kusaka said he can't confirm or deny anything.

I personally don't want to see yellow, she was a mistake and now she's the face of adventures because everyone is a special snowflake and she's their mascot.

>>32719557
they likely have names, they simply decided not to reveal them

this isn't the first time, anon >>32717038

>>32719571
I thought he was called silver in generations? Doesn't that make that his canon name?

>>32714579
they didn't, there is no default name.

>>32718814
>>32718822
>>32718829
>>32718857
>>32718871
>>32719053
>>32719343
>>32719378
>>32719398
>>32719429
>>32719433
>>32719466
>>32719481
>>32719538
>>32719557
>>32719562

Manga fags, take your fan fiction discussion elsewhere. We're talking about canon shit.

>>32719587
I didn't watch Generations so maybe

still, I don't think anime canon counts as game canon

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>>32719587
nope

even bulbapedo acknowledges that he has no name

>>32715383
This is a retarded logic

>>32719611
Interestingly enough, frlg the game hinted that a red haired boy was Giovanni's son.

The manga arc for frlg was silvers origins, and he learned Gio was his dad a good 4-5 years before hgss borrowed elements from the manga.

>>32719685
FRLG also has a portrait of Fuji and Blaine in Cinnabar gym

>>32719685
So it isn't a fanfic?

>>32715567
Agree. Someone with brains here.

Sun moon protagonists have no default names. It's a placeholder. Red and blue had Sonny and whatever in the data of the first games but those are not their true names.

>>32719722
Nate and Rosa have those names because that's what Game Freak calls them as NPCs.

>>32719721
No, it's been going for 20 years just like the anime.

They had a fan meet up last year for SDCC.

Plus, they're really accessible on amazon for really heavy discounted prices and at places like Costco.

They're also like in the top 10 of most sold manga in the world. I dunno why /vp/ always likes to say it's a fanfic.

>>32717107
No it's not. His name is never stated in game. But at this point I'd not be surprised if they adopt silver as his name

>>32714579
But they don't have official names, people just call them that because they don't have names.

>>32719587
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19T-UN3igrQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqKU5tRrSOA

Generations never refers to him or any other main character of the games by name

>>32719765
shit, wrong Japanese link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WugiIQIcyQU

>>32719742
It's "fanfic" like the anime. The manga is enjoyable but takes too much liberties and the characters are out of character

>>32719773
Are we talking about sapphire?

Because her Tarzan outfit is top tier.

>>32719750
His only "names" in the games are ??? and Passerby Boy.

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>>32714932
>not like he was explicitly called "Sun" in the demo. An official piece of game, made by GameFreak, to show the game.
You tell them anon!
By the way have you met my friend Orlando? Pic related, it's him.

>>32719805
Yes, I did. Sadly, he got replaced by a faggot called Brendan. Thankfully, nothing like that happened with Sun-chan. Sun-chan didn't have to die, like poor Orlando did.

>>32714932
>I mean, not like he was explicitly called "Sun" in the demo.
Demos are pre-release media, of course they don't count.

The only official names are when the characters appear named as NPCs or when any official source refers to them by a name (which is why Red is Satoshi in Generation I since the Official Pocket Monsters Fanbook published by Game Freak in May 1997 calls him that).

>>32719848
>The only official names are when the characters appear named as NPCs
Anon, if only NPC
appearance counts, Calem and Serena's hats don't actually exist, as they don't wear them when they appear as NPCs. And Serena's canon hairstyle is the ponytail.
Do you know what counts? The names they used last. What the developers used to refer to them last. The newest names replace the older ones. If Brendan was called Orlando, and nothing else, he would stop being Brendan and become Orlando.

>>32719887
>Calem and Serena's hats don't actually exist, as they don't wear them when they appear as NPCs. And Serena's canon hairstyle is the ponytail
Those aren't really relevant since their artwork differs (to point out how you can customize them).

>>32719894
How does differing artwork matter? That's also "pre-release media". The artworks are revealed before the games. By your own logic, that is irrelevant and their NPC appearances, which happened in-game, rather than being part of pre-release media, matter more.

>>32719920
>How does differing artwork matter?
The artwork is not ambiguous.

So except for OP we all agree that they're nameless, right?

>>32719930
Neither is the trailers or anything else, really. There was nothing "ambiguous" going on there.

>>32719940
How can they be nameless when they're literally named Sun and Moon in all of pre-release media? Do you not understand what "nameless" means?

>>32719942
>There was nothing "ambiguous" going on there.
There is precedence to pre-release names not matching the actual names. There is no precedence to artwork not matching the in-game depictions of the characters.

>>32719947
>There is no precedence to artwork not matching the in-game depictions of the characters.
Isn't that LITERALLY what I pointed out? Serena and Calem's artwork not matching their in-game depiction as NPCs?

>>32719957
>Serena and Calem's artwork not matching their in-game depiction as NPCs?
Except they do.

>>32719946
>in all of pre-release media?
You mean the non finalized media the always uses placeholders for names?

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>>32719964
Is that what we're doing now? Just lying when the argument isn't working out?

>>32719990
You are not disproving what I said. The lack of optional attire such as hat and sunglasses is not an inconsistency.

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>Crystal
>Kris

>>32719985
>non finalized media the always uses placeholders
>always
Not with SM. There's absolutely zero evidence their was non finalized and just placeholders. "It happened before" isn't even circumstantial evidence.

>>32720013
Because it's not circumstancial.

There are no players named Landon and Terra, Blair and Whitlea, Xavier and Yvonne, etc.

>>32720003
Of course it is an inconsistency. It doesn't match their pre-release artwork. They lack certain items, and the hairstyle is different. That's inconsistency.
In case you weren't aware, she doesn't have to become a big, hairy man with broken leg just to be considered inconsistent with pre-release artwork. Lack of a hat and a different hairstyle is enough.

>>32720013
>There's absolutely zero evidence their was non finalized
Except for the fact that it's pre release media. Unless you're suggesting that games are complete when they're announced.

>>32720032
So again, "it happened before". Great evidence. Definitive proof that Sun and Moon are not names. The characters are literally nameless. The names used are just not valid.

>>32720040
>pre-release artwork
It's not pre-release artwork, it's simply artwork. They never change artwork afterwards in media printed long after release unless it's a remake.

Your argument makes no sense.

>>32720049
So, you keep on spouting "NOT EVIDENCE!" to everyone that presents it to you but you do have an ounce of evidence proving your own claims?

>>32720044
>Except for the fact that it's pre release media
Pre-release media AND post-release media. See >>32715234

>>32720060
>a remake
Or a third version, forgot to say that.

>>32718814
can we get a 'it just never ends' reaction image from this please

>>32720060
The artwork isn't updated, yes, but that has nothing to do with the fact that Serena and Calem's NPC appearance didn't match their artwork. And you're claim in-game appearance matters more than pre-release media, which makes the artwork wrong.

Was Sun and Moon the first game since Gen 2 to not have your alternate gender as a character in the game? Even BW let them be in the Subway.

>>32720112
>which makes the artwork wrong
But it doesn't. The games introduced appearance customization and these apparent inconsistencies you mention are intentional to point out that the player can change their look if they want to.

You're basically saying that Red's and Green's (RGBY & FRLG girl) artwork are wrong because you don't actually see them in-game with a pinned Vs. Seeker.

>>32720063
You do realize that the burden of proof lies on you, right? You're the one making claims that they're nameless. As for the basis of my claims that they're named Sun and Moon, literally every trailer and the demo. That's my basis.
You, on the other hand, are calling that basis wrong. Saying it can't be their names, without giving anything that can support you claims. Yes, previously, the names have changed. That isn't a reason to believe the same is the case this time. It COULD be the case, you have no reason to believe it is. There's nothing supporting the claim that their names were just placeholders.

>>32720169
>There's nothing supporting the claim that their names were just placeholders.
Except 21 years of core Pokémon games behind them.

>>32720190
So again, your entire reason for being absolutely sure that their names aren't Sun and Moon is just that previously, the names featured in media have been wrong. Because they were wrong before, they MUST be wrong this time too.
And again, that isn't even circumstantial evidence. That's a reason to be skeptical, not a evidence to be sure. There's difference between the two.

>>32720214
>they MUST be wrong this time too.
That's kind of how placeholders work anon.

>>32720291
And here we come full circle to where we started. You can't prove they were just placeholders. There's no evidence suggesting that.
Yes, previously, they were just placeholders.. But that doesn't mean the same is true this time. It COULD be the case, and it might not be. You can't be sure either way.

>>32720169
>There's nothing supporting the claim that their names were just placeholders.

Other than the fact that they're playable characters that don't have names and "Selene" is equally as official as "Moon"

>>32720320
>Other than the fact that they're playable characters that don't have names
Characters have names. Names are literally just identifiers, and even player characters have that. The identifiers used for them in this case have been Sun and Moon. They have been NAMED Sun and Moon. Making them their names.
The argument shouldn't be whether they have names or not. They do. You literally see them having names multiple times, unless you're blind. The argument here should be WHAT those names are. And so far, we only have Sun and Moon as options.

>"Selene" is equally as official as "Moon"
Might be
Not the case for Sun, though. Sun is far "more" official than Elio. As mentioned before, Elio was literally used as a placeholder, proven by the fact that it ONLY appeared when they needed a placeholder, and even then, it referred to a character completely different looking from the "default" Sun. And on top of that, Sun was used in the demo, giving more evidence Elio was just a placeholder.

>>32720372
>The identifiers used for them in this case have been Sun and Moon
Except they've never officially been called Sun and Moon.

>>32720379
Holy fucking fuck of fuckity fuckers, you fucking fucker.
I'm done. You're actually retarded.

>>32720372
>Characters have names
Yes. The one you give them. But the SM playable characters have no official names because the player is meant to name them.

>Elio was literally used as a placeholder,
So was Sun. They have to give a placeholder name because the game requires it. There is no official name for the character.

>>32720372
>Sun was used in the demo
So was Orlando. You do realise that the Demos still use placeholder names, right?

>>32714579
Their names are Chad Kantocock and Chicken-Chan. Dumbass.

>>32720383
>being this triggered that other people can understand the concept of a blank slate character while you can't

>>32720383
>I'm done.
You're done because your only argument is "NO THEY'RE NOT PLACEHOLDERS" and everyone is poking holes through it like a swiss cheese factory.

manga autism
naming autism

what has this thread become?

>>32720428
>what has this thread become?
Triggering OP mostly.

>>32720396
>>32720397
Do you fuckers lack the ability to read? Firstly, SM playable character were referred to by names NOT picked by the fucking player many fucking times. Again, see the trailers and the demo.

Secondly, you can't prove that Sun was a placeholder and not his name. You literally can't. Give me evidence to believe it was placeholder. And no, not the BUT PREVIOUS NAMES WERE PLACEHOLDERS :((((((((( bullshit. That means NOTHING. It doesn't prove that Sun was a placeholder name. Only that previously, the trailer names were placeholders.

And lastly, for the other fucking faggot bringing up Orlando. Go fuck yourself you illiterate faggot. Yes, Orlando was a placeholder. Does that mean prove Sun was a placeholder name? Does that you cunt? No, it fucking doesn't. It raises the possibly that it MIGHT be a placeholder. But it doesn't prove jack shit.

>>32720451
>Give me evidence to believe it was placeholder.
The fact that the demo was a prerelease form of media anon. Unless you think they cobbled it together in a week or something.

>>32720451
to be fair, hilbert and hilda were called blair and whitlea.

>>32720483
Then look at this >>32715234
That's not pre-release media by any definition of the word.
And thank you, for at least asking a slightly different question.

>>32720451
>This thing was a placeholder and so was that thing
>but this thing? This thing that I don't like knowing is a placeholder?
>It's most certainly not a placeholder.

Man, I've never seen a person get this angry about names.
Did you also get mad when the Gen 2 protag was finally given a name in Gen 4

>>32720491
>That's not pre-release media
Dude, that's a repurposed image. It was floating around long before the GL was updated with that.

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>>32714579
>ever since Crystal with Kris
That's because they couldn't name both playable characters "Crystal"
Other than that, they didn't really promote that name unlike what they've been doing with most others.

>>32720510
It might be. But they're still using it. If GL is still referring to them as Sun and Moon, why would you think those names don't apply? Because they were also in pre-release media, does that disqualify them COMPLETELY? Why can't they just be the names, considering they're still being used?

>>32714579
Sun can actually be used as a name, as can Moon. So it works. You'll never see a person named Black or White.

>>32720530
Okay now you're just saying that placeholders can't be placeholders because you don't want them to be.

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>>32715162
>Elio and Selene
Funny, Lunick and Solana were named Helio and Selena in Spanish.

>>32720523
see >>32717225

>>32714579
Gold was never an official name. It's just a popular name fans made up.

>>32720558
No, anon. I'm just asking a question.
The reason you called them placeholders was because they were in pre-release media, when the game might not have been done. But they're still being used to this day in media. So, why can't they be the names?

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To those still bringing up Orlando, here's a little problem for you. In this image, see if you can find any logical jumps.

>>32720678
Orlando was never an official name.

>>32720678
You do realise that the equivalent to the knife in your argument is the demo right?

>>32720708
The knife is the evidence, anon. That's what proves the man was stabbed. In the name argument, it is the equivalent of Brendan, which proved Orlando was a placeholder.
In Sun's case, that proof is missing. The man MIGHT be stabbed with a knife. Sun's demo name MIGHT be a placeholder. But we don't have the evidence here. We shouldn't just jump to the conclusion that it was a placeholder without any proof.

>>32720749
>We shouldn't just jump to the conclusion that it was a placeholder without any proof.
Nor we should be an hypocrite that considers Sun an official name.

>>32720757
Yes. You're absolutely right.
But right now, that is the closest thing we have to an official name. It's not completely official, as there's always a chance of it changing unless we see it in-game, but until we do see it in-game, there's nothing wrong with going with Sun, as it's what was used by GF.

>>32720749
>The knife is the evidence, anon
So the demo.
The demo from an early build of the game.
The demo that's part of the prerelease media.
The demo that acts as evidence of the names being placeholders.

That demo?

>>32720788
You're obviously free to call them what you want. As it stands, >>32717038 had already summed this up quite well.

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Are arguments always so obtuse around here?

>>32719736
I was just about to ask where the names for gen5 characters comes from. I forgot all about the Battle Train.

What about Barry though?

>>32720372
Careful with that Elio though, that same screenshot used Moon, which has been otherwise used for the default female, to reference a bñonde girl with a blue shirt.

>>32720802
Yes, he did sum it up. I'm just against calling them "nameless", as they were referred to by name. Now, that name might wrong, it might turn out to be something else later on, but right now, that's what we have.

>>32720826
>I'm just against calling them "nameless", as they were referred to by name.
That doesn't make it their name anon. That's what a placeholder is.

>>32720818
>What about Barry though?
That was derived from the fact that he appeared in the anime alongside the female protagonist of Sinnoh which has the same Japanese and English names in both anime and games (Hikari and Dawn, respectively).

So while not quite 100% certain, it makes more sense to call him Jun or Barry instead of relying on internal data as that has proven unreliable too many times (it calls Barry "Cedric", if I recall correctly).

Their names are Elio and Selene now shut the fuck up

>>32720853
And right now, we don't know if they're just placeholders. Again, the argument is looping.

The problem is that you're completely dismissive of the possibility of their names being Sun and Moon. You aren't even considering that. You're seem dead set on calling them placeholders. To go back to the retarded image I made, you're dead set on calling it a murder by stabbing. It might be. They might be placeholders. But they just might not be.

Yes, it doesn't make their names Sun and Moon. But it also doesn't dismiss them. The fact that they appeared in pre-release media alone also doesn't make them placeholders.
Come on, anon. Please try to look at it with a little less bias.

>>32720853
But them holding the place means those ARE their names until the definitive thing comes, right?
Placeholders exist so it isn't left vacant afterall.

And let's be honest here, they've been damn consistent with the Sun and Moon placeholders, enough to not have any competition for the spot.

Until more definite names happen, they are Sun and Moon as there's nothing better to go with. It has been 20 years but using the version names as character games happened with Red and Green, so hey, someday Sun and Moon might be fully canonized.

>>32720922
Just asked john game freak he said sun and moon aren't their names sorry bud

>>32720940
>happened with Red and Green
but only after Gold and Silver, GF called Red "Satoshi" prior to that (not in screenshot examples but in artwork)

>>32720922
>we don't know if they're just placeholders.
Anon, they were from an early build of the game purely for recognition rather than anything official.
One more time, they're placeholders.

>>32720940
>But them holding the place means those ARE their names until the definitive thing comes, right?
No because then you would also have to refer to them as Elio and Selene as well as Kei and Lana by the same reasoning.

>>32720952
But didn't they also call them Red and Green in some materials? And they were the top default names.

Anyway, my point is also >>32720922 that just because they've been used in placeholder situations doesn't mean that they can't be/become official.

But I guess we'll never know, it's unlikely that they'll show up in USUM, and even if they do there's a chance they will actually be nameless or use your previous character's name/a name form a random list.

>>32720996
>purely for recognition rather than anything official
>rather than anything official
And again, there's no solid basis to that statement. You're just stubbornly saying. They might be official. You don't know this. I don't know this. No one knows.

>>32720996
Elio and Selene only showed up when Sun and Moon also did. They appear WITH them, not INSTEAD of them.
Kei and Lana were very likely supposed to be their official Japanese games but since they never were actually used, Sun and Moon will be the most official names until they resurface or something.

>>32721027
>there's no solid basis to that statement.
>they were from an early build of the game
Are you seriously going to deny this or do you not understand the function of a placeholder?
There is literally no official name for them at this point in time.
Do you actually have an argument that doesn't rely on what ifs?

>>32721031
>They appear WITH them, not INSTEAD of them.
You do realise that doesn't bolster your argument right? That just confirms that they're placeholders and nothing is solidified.
And on that note what exactly are you using to put Sun and Moon above the other two sets?
Kai and Lana were their names in the internal data for the finished game after all rather than the previous Sun and Moon.

>Sun and Moon will be the most official names
Is there any particular reason why you want it to be Sun and Moon so badly?

>>32721011
>And they were the top default names.
Why people always bring this up is a mystery to me. They're lists of names for you to choose from, they have nothing to do with the actual names of the characters.
>But didn't they also call them Red and Green in some materials?
Maybe but they might be the same materials in the remakes where Red is called Fire.

This is why they're dismissed.

>>32721113
>Kai and Lana were their names in the internal data for the finished game after all rather than the previous Sun and Moon.
Not him but internal data is not reliable and has never been. Otherwise you should be calling the Poké Transfer Lab in Unova "Pal Park" since that's the name that Game Freak called its audio theme in the internal data.

>>32721113
Anon, how does them being from an early build completely prove they were nothing but placeholders? Hau was called Hau even in your "early builds". So was Gladion. And Lillie. And literally everyone else.

So why are you so sure that the protagonists' name just cannot possibly be Sun and Moon, because they were used in the so called early builds?
This makes sense, anon. I'm tired. I'm giving up after hearing your answer to this one question. Hopefully, the answer won't be "because it happened before".

>>32721133
>Not him but internal data is not reliable and has never been.
That's the whole point here.
None of the names are reliable.

>>32721138
>Hau was called Hau even in your "early builds". So was Gladion. And Lillie. And literally everyone else.
Did it ever occur to you that may be because they aren't the player characters?

>So why are you so sure that the protagonists' name just cannot possibly be Sun and Moon
see >>32721144

>>32721144
Elio and Selene are reliable

>>32721113
Holy crap you'r eobtuse.

>>32721138
>Hugh was called Hugh even in your "early builds".
>So why are you so sure that the protagonists' name just cannot possibly be Black2 and White2, because they were used in the so called early builds?
It really makes you think.

>>32721156
As reliable as Sun and Moon and Kai and Lana
In other words, they aren't.

>>32721172
Yes, why can't they be? You didn't answer a question, anon. You just repeated the question, implying that the answer should be obvious. It isn't.

Someone should just send this thread to someone from Treehouse and see if it gets a response desu

>>32721119
What I meant, at any rate, is that unlike, say, Ethan which came out of nowhere Ren and Green were default/placeholder names that later became official.

>>32721184
Sun and Moon have had more appearance than those two combined. Which isn't saying much.

>>32720563
Solana is a fucking waifu.

>>32721193
Hibiki/Ethan makes sense because the Crystal girl got replaced with Kotone/Lyra as the theme behind the names is related.

>>32721205
But she's out of your range.

>>32721185
>hugh is a player character
>Black2 and White2 apparently aren't

>>32721223
Hue/Hugh is the rival.

>>32721223
So, being a player character apparently makes every "early build" name a definitive placeholder?
Makes perfect sense, anon. Thanks for explaining so clearly.

>>32721221
I haven't said it doesn't make sense? I'm just saying the name didn't exist in any form of material or coding for the GSC protagonist until it appeared all of a sudden as his official name in HG/SS

>>32721238
>being a character with no definitive name until the full release of the game apparently makes every "early build" name a definitive placeholder?
ftfy

>A: these names are the closest we have to official names
>B: they aren't official you doofus. Otherwise this and that would also be
>A: them being placeholders doesn't mean they can never become official
>B: THEY AREN'T OFFICIAL
Holy crap, this thread is such a pile of crap with nobody getting anybody's point.

>>32721250
>I'm just saying the name didn't exist in any form of material or coding for the GSC protagonist
Yes, and you could argue that the closest official names in the context of GSC are the ones they were given in their anime special (dub notwithstanding due to how 4Kids handled it, which was to essentially ruin it, and this matters because a character appeared in the main anime under a different name in the dub).

>>32721253
Yes, there is no definitive name until they appear in-game. But your argument here is that when they DO appear in game, their name cannot possibly be the same as it was in those "early builds".
That because Sun was called "Sun" in those "early builds", if he ever gets an in-game name, it cannot possibly be "Sun" under any circumstances. Because it was in those "early builds", and protagonist names from "early builds" are definitive placeholders, for some reason.

>>32714579
Because this isn't important at all and was decided upon on a whim.

>>32721279
It's more like
>A: Why don't people think these are the real names
>B: Because they're never encountered in game
>A: But the demo is a game
>B: The demo never uses the real names
>A: FUCK YOU I LIKE IT

>>32721312
You definitely are B, huh? Completely missing and misinterpreting A's words.

>>32721329
You'd think so but anyone with half a brain can tell you that they have no names.
This is my first post sonny.

>>32721329
At this point, he's just slowly trying to act more and more retarded, to act like he was just fishing for (You)s all along, to avoid admitting he was being a bit stupid before.

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So who wants to bang Marina?

>>32721374
They're placeholders so they're holding the place.
Go away ninten

>>32721387
Come on A, don't go acting like "you're saying that they can't ever become official" isn't twisting B's words.

Both of you are arguing against things that were never said.

I liked it when this thread was talking about the manga. More civil than two anons screaming back and forth.

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>>32721429
>They're placeholders so they're holding the place.
The problem there is that there's been no less than 3 of them dude.
So until they show up in the game proper they have no real names.

Could be Sun and Moon, could be Elio and Selene, could be Kai and Lana (in japan).
Then again it could be something else.

We just don't know.

>>32721429
That's just the only way I could interpret it. If that is twisting words, I'm up for being corrected. If this B was saying something else, please do explain what it was. Understand that will just help if such argument every comes up.

>>32721456
>could be Elio and Selene
This would be very weird, since they only appeared in company of Sun and Moon, which in turn have appeared several times on their own.

>>32721509
Yeah, just like calling Satoshi "Red" out a sudden just because sequels are out...

Oh.

>>32721462
He's misinterpreting you as saying that Sun and Moon are completely official just as much as, say, Kalme and Serena or Rosa and Nate.
And then he's repeatedly refuting that.

The nitpicky details might vary but that's the gist of the last 90 or so posts.

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>>32721509
Come on OP, are you really trying to pull this card again? Not a single one of them are finalized.
Is it really that hard just to call them by one of the names for convenience but still accept they're nameless?

>>32721523
Yeah, could happen but it would feel odd. Red and Green also felt odd but here we are.
But for now I'm more comfortable calling them Sun and Moon as everyone can easily relate the characters to those names simply because of how ubiquitous they are or more probably because thanks to Red&Green and PokeSpe it's easy to relate PCs to the titles they're featured in

>>32721557
Sure, no one is complaining that they're being called Sun and Moon but until solid evidence arises, they're officially unnamed. This has been the case since Gold and Silver.

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>>32721594
I swear I've never seen anyone making so much of a fuss over Gold and Silver not being actually official. Heck, it hasn't been made for Silver even in this thread, you could assert "the name of the rival in Johto is Silver" and nobody would bat an eye.

Also, come think of it we're only a year or two away from Ethan being the go-to name for longer than Gold. Scary. It feels like it was just last week when I thought Ethan sounded lame.

>>32721661
>I swear I've never seen anyone making so much of a fuss over Gold and Silver not being actually official. Heck, it hasn't been made for Silver even in this thread, you could assert "the name of the rival in Johto is Silver" and nobody would bat an eye.
It's easier to fool a man than to convince him that he has been fooled.

With that said, neither Gold or Silver are official names. They're perfectly acceptable nonetheless, no doubt of that.

>>32721524
Yeah, that's what I thought too. That's why I've repeated tried to clear that up. But when I said I didn't think Sun/Moon were their names, but calling them Elio/Sun/Kai or anything previously use was better than just calling them nameless.
That makes sense, right? Nameless implies they have been given no name, or the names given to them are definitely not their names, thus making them nameless. Which isn't correct. They have been given many names, and out of those, none have been proven to be definitely wrong. And until they are proven to be wrong, they can't be nameless.

If that logic somehow only makes sense to me, then I was wrong. But if that makes sense, the only logical conclusion I can draw is that this B was convinced that all of those names could not be official, thus making the characters nameless. Because as long as even one of them can be official, they're not nameless.

>>32714579
Moon? what are you talking about?
Her official name is Chicken.

>>32722694
But it isn't. You just convinced yourself that it is.

>>32717107
No it's ???

>>32723029
This, or Passerby Boy.

>>32714584
holy shit

>>32722694
nobody calls her chicken except /vp/ because she doesn't even wear a chicken hat. it's a flower hat, and the only name choices we've seen associated with her is:

-Moon (Trailer)
-Selene (Trailer)
-Moon (Manga counterpart's name)

and for the boy, it's:

-Sun (Game Demo)
-Sun (Trailer)
-Elio (Trailer)
Sun (Manga counterpart's name)