Do you think Gold and Silver would've been better had Game

>>32672323
Hard to say. The only reason they were merely bad rather than a total disaster was based Iwata salvaging the trash code. I'm sure GSC could have been something great if they weren't so rushed.

>>32672354
Bait.

>>32672354
>original release date was March 1998
>ended up being released on November 1999
>"rushed"
OK

>>32672323
What was the original idea? I didn't think there was enough from Space Show 97 to say.

>>32672323
First, I need to know what was that idea

>>32672354
>if they weren't so rushed.
They reused the bulk of the assets and the game was delayed. There was no rushing.

>>32672391
>>32672395
Well, you can clearly see how the new region (we don't know if it was even named Johto at that point) was vastly different.

Was Kanto even supposed to be available?

>>32672420
Do you think they delayed it because of the Game Boy Color? Nintendo said it would come out in January 1998 but it took until October 1998 to release the thing.

It's not like Game Freak was making the game with the GBC in mind but it does beg the question. Officially, they apologized for the delay by saying that they were very tired and wanted to make the games better, whatever that means.

>>32672323
Pretty hard to say. Gold/Silver and their remakes are pretty widely known as some of the best in the franchise (even if you don't agree) and we don't really have a very good idea of what the game looked like in its original design form. We've got some pictures and beta rips of some different maps, sure, and like 2 or 3 scrapped Pokemon ideas, but in the grand scheme of things we honestly have no idea how "Pokemon 2" was originally supposed to be.

What we ended up getting is pretty damn good, and we should be happy with that. I would be interested in somebody doing a proper GS Beta Hack though, with all of the scrapped creatures, maps and features (Sweet Honey, minecarts in caves etc.) intact.

>>32672684
The Japanese ROMs have an unused location header that translates to "haunted house" but we only learned about it recently here in the West, at least. The English ROMs replaced the string with "N/A" so we never thought it was actually meant to be something relevant.

>>32672684
My GS ball. That fucking shrine confused me (and thousands of others) for years.

>>32672323
I've never seen this mag before. Info? ISBN?

>>32672387
Yeah, the game development was a disaster till Iwata stepped in and started from scratch, if you count the time from that, it is rushed.

>>32673007
This is false. Iwata did optimizations to help fit more on the cart, nothing Iwata did for GS is perceivable through screen shots.

But hey, if you want to project a deity onto worldly events, go for it. I'm sure Iwata would've appreciated the work of his peers being ignored.

>>32672469
>Do you think they delayed it because of the Game Boy Color?
Of course not. There were clearly some very heavy changes made during development.
Chances are they just fucked things up.

>>32672953
Well, it's 2017. What facts do you need to know about the GS Ball that you haven't heard before?

>>32672970
Dunno, I've found the photo on Twitter (https://twitter.com/korotchi/status/733984310907133952), which was linked to from here: https://tcrf.net/Prerelease:Pok%C3%A9mon_Gold_and_Silver#Unknown_2

>>32673007
Iwata didn't start anything from scratch.

>>32672323
Man am I the only one who is still suprised how they made such a huge graphical leap?

Man GS looked so well on release.

>>32673140
When Game Freak announced Pocket Monsters 2, there was no such thing as a Game Boy Color. They were going to release it on the Game Boy like they did with Pocket Monsters and with Super Game Boy support as well.

>>32672469
>Do you think they delayed it because of the Game Boy Color?

Yes, but no, but yes. GBC is just as tied to the western release of RBY, as it is the Japanese GSC.

The use of GB pallets is only present in alpha screenshots, the decision to move development away from "Super GameBoy enhanced" to "Color enhanced" was presumably made (or implemented) in 1998.

Now to your point--was it delayed 'because Color'? Nah. It was delayed 'because anime' and 'because localization'.

Fall 1998 was the western release of Pokemon, with a coordinated TV launch, card launch, and game release. Two months later, GBC launched. Pokemon helped move dusty GB Pockets during this initial period, and the Nov 28 GBC launch positioned both for Christmas.

tl;dr GS wasn't delayed 'for GBC', the GBC was positioned around the GS delay and the western RB launch.


> they were very tired
> whatever that means

This speaks to the work ethic of series creator Satoshi Tajiri, who could go on work binges without sleep. During the TIME interview, he speaks to this, and it's seemingly the reason Masuda replaced him as captain.

>>32672469
but different in what sense? can you point some especificc details?

>>32672354
>if they weren't so rushed
I'm pretty sure gold and silver were one of the rare pokemon games that hasn't been rushed.

>>32673057
Thanks for the link anon, much appreciated.

>Iwata didn't start anything from scratch.

Watch out scrubs, truth bombs droppin.

>>32673214
Fuck I forgot to add an important point here about how the Mewtwo movie played in 1997 and 1998, coupled with the gap caused by Porygon. This opened a gap that NOA took advantage of, and when GS were outright delayed they doubled down with the Orange Islands and Lugia movie. Lugia wasn't actually made for the games, it was conceived of for the anime, which offers more insight to how far back GS were.

>>32673214
>The use of GB pallets is only present in alpha screenshots, the decision to move development away from "Super GameBoy enhanced" to "Color enhanced" was presumably made (or implemented) in 1998.
They didn't change that. Gold and Silver can be played on an original Game Boy and it has Super Game Boy enhancements like Red and Green. Of course, they then added Game Boy Color support in the meantime but it's not like they trashed the rest along with it.

>Two months later, GBC launched.
Well, the GBC was meant to come out in January 1998 but Nintendo postponed the release for some reason. It came out on October 1998 in Japan, one month after Pokémon Yellow there (this was already after Game Freak delayed Gold and Silver).

What you say about the anime and localization is true but what to make of these things that happened in Japan?

>>32672469
Your correct , Kanto wasn't supposed to be included. Iwata salvaged the code and had gangs of room, I believe they created Kanto in a little under a month or two before release

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>>32673285
>They didn't change that.
Oh, so they didn't! Well, retaining the SGB pallet is of little effort, but still thanks for clarifying!

>Nintendo postponed the release for some reason

I guess folks weren't clamouring to play "Doraemon Kart" in full colour. The DX line weren't exactly system sellers, either.

>but what to make of these things that happened in Japan?

We can only speculate based on available evidence. I hate throwing him under the bus, but Tajiri's work ethnic stands out. We know RB had development issues, beyond finding a publisher. Spitballing here, but it sounds like Tajiri's tism made him want too much out of the games, something that Iwata GS anecdote speaks to.

>>32673323
Sort of.

Simmilar to how Gen 1 has additional Pokemon indexed but removed for space, GS needed to slim down to fit in the cart. An unintended consequence of reducing bloat meant there was just enough room for Kanto to be included.

>>32673354
>something that Iwata GS anecdote speaks to
Interesting, what did Iwata say?

>>32673397
Yup, it's not like filling up the cart during development is inherently a bad thing as long as you solve the problem before release.

>>32673475
Nothing Iwata said, was after his death, Tsunekazu Ishihara spoke about how Iwata pushed for and secured RG localization, while GF was plodding away with GS. GF didn't see localization as viable.

In 2010, we learned about Iwata's GS compression tool that allowed for Kanto inclusion. GF couldn't even fit the core game onto the cart.

>>32673541
I should rephrase, the Tajiri team was so dead set on making their skateboarind sequel they couldn't see the forest for the trees.

Masuda righted the ship, but Iwata was a great first mate during the rough years

>>32673541
>>32673562
I recall reading that Masuda wasn't originally participating in the development of Gold and Silver even though he was one of the important members to the development of Red and Green.

There's also these:

http://www.glitterberri.com/pokemon-gold-silver/pokemon-2/

http://www.glitterberri.com/pokemon-red-blue/game-freak-staff-interview/gold-silver-powered-up/
(original at https://www.nintendo.co.jp/nom/0007/gfreak/)

>>32673541
>It's been 20 years and Gamefreak still has not gotten any better at programming or coding
How?

>>32673629

Masuda was just the music guy in gen 1/2 as far as I know.

>>32673641
Red and Green as well as Gold and Silver were done by only 4 programmers.

Game Freak filled the cart while developing Pocket Monsters 2 because they had a lot of ideas in mind and Ishihara, being the producer, thought to himself that Pokémon would end after that so they were very crazy about making Pokémon 2 the ultimate Pokémon game.

>>32673676
The in-game credits of Red and Green include him as programmer as well.

>>32673629
>http://www.glitterberri.com/pokemon-gold-silver/pokemon-2/
>Tajiri: "In the game world, there’s a magazine about Pokémon called Pokémon Genre. If you investigate the bookshelves in the game, you can find copies of Pokémon Genre and read the articles published in it. About why Slowking is the way he is, for example. That way you can learn things while you’re playing."

For fucks sake, why does this guy not direct another one?!

>>32673707
Cause he knows the games are beyond saving

>>32672323
What do you mean? original. Everything on that list is in the original pokemon games

File: Pokemon_Journal.jpg (950KB, 1280x1808px) Image search: [Google]

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>>32673707
Did they actually add that magazine?

Here's first-generation Sugimori art for Pokémon Journal, a magazine that can be found in-game in FireRed and LeafGreen.

>>32673704
Masuda programmed the Sound Driver, a reverse engineered GB music maker that produced all the 'cries' and BGM. Sound Driver remnants were present in BW2, until XY replaced it with shitty compressed audio.

>>32673629
Thanks for those rad resources!

>>32673707
Tajiri was seemingly removed by Nintendo. We'll almost certainly never know for sure, but look at the media presence Tajiri provides via TIME and look at how together Masuda is in every other interview. Coupled with the game delays, he was probably paid a fat sum and given an honorary title.

>>32673751
nah not that I know
>>32673732
I don´t think so. Games are still pretty good, except for gen6.

Also look at this
>I want there to be answers to the mysteries that players found in the previous games. I want to aim for an even more imaginative game within the confines of the Game Boy hardware, and pay attention to the little details.

I really want another game of this man. I am sick of these recent "oh shit dude a legendaryyy here I give it to you as a present", just for fucking marketing sales. This series is meant to be explored, legendaries are hidden not present everywhere. For fucks sake he even said, the reason why he added braille was because Pokemon is now international and this served as an international language.

>>32673810

Tajiri's still CEO of Gamefreak.

>>32673836
And Elizabeth is Canada's Queen.

>>32673810
tajiri is still the ceo and is everywhere the executive producer of the games. Tajiri just don´t like interviews and shit, he rarely did ones. The last one I saw was making a link battle in frlg with the gamecenter guy.

>>32673854
Actually, the company info page on Game Freak's web site is updated every year around April with the number of current employees and they say that Tajiri is the Representative Director (代表取締役).

https://www.gamefreak.co.jp/company/about.html

>>32673890
He only became the Executive Director in Crystal though. Gold and Silver was the last mainline Pokémon game that he directed.

>>32673902
well but I think it´s just overly looking if they didn´t add some bullshit into the games. Like maintaining the league, badges or whatever.

But he is probably saying do it like your vision, if people like legendary stories like that ok.

The bad thing is, the games are still fucking highly popular especially the new ones, so why should he think it´s bad?

>>32673902
Tajiri doesn't direct and doesn't represent, though. It's a figurehead position, since he conceived of the franchise and founded GF.

The GCCX episode only happened because everyone loves Arino.

>>32673890
>the executive producer

This title can take on radically different meaning, given the context. An EP can have total hands-on control, and an EP can be wholly removed and just a source of capital or a 'final say'. Following GS, Tajiri took on a radically different role.

>>32673979
>>32673890
Also, Tajiri's CX appearance in 2004 was 5 years after his Time interview, and it's been over 12 years since that episode aired.

>>32672354
I know this is baut, but i read this a part inside me dies. I'm only sad because some newfag may read this and believe it.
You deserve oras and the shitty direction this franchise took. Glad you'll be burning money at least.

>>32673979
See also >>32673947.

>>32673979
>This title can take on radically different meaning, given the context. An EP can have total hands-on control, and an EP can be wholly removed and just a source of capital or a 'final say'. Following GS, Tajiri took on a radically different role.

that´s what I also think. It´s really sad. Maybe if they announce a gen 1 remake he will take a more direct role. At least he made story writing in FRLG

>>32674031
Which is consistent with him conceiving of Johto shenanigans, and someone else remixing it for Crystal.

>he made story writing in FRLG

Oh, neat. I mean it's just fleshing out the original game withs tuff he presumably wrote back then, but still neat.

>>32674042
>>32674053
His role in FireRed and LeafGreen was supervising the additions to Red and Green, according to what Ishihara said at E3 2004.

>>32674086
Which, beyond "Giovanni had a son, wait no he had red hair", is probably just shit he had planned for RG.

Also, the 'Fame Checker' falls well in line with Tajiri's approach to easter egging and characterization.

>>32674086
>>32674104

He is according to wiki, writer of the games. They could just say because he wrote the og story, but still I don´t think he wouldn´t have any influence about it.

>>32674113
For this same reason, the anime credits him as series creator. It's not because he has an active hand, it's because he conceived of the series.

I mean, he didn't alone, but since Masuda took on the 'music guy' role and Sugimori took the 'art guy' role, Tajiri had the 'story guy' role.

File: Fame_Checker.png (156KB, 387x259px) Image search: [Google]

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>>32674104
The Fame Checker's Japanese name is Voice Checker which is pretty cool. You basically ask it something out loud and get the information retrieved to you on-screen.

The Pokémon Journal magazine mentioned earlier is actually used as a source for registering the information on the Fame Checker.

>>32674130
>You
>ask it something out loud

Like ". . ."?!?!?!

For real, that's a rad easter egg. I've always been aware that Pokemon Journal was a thing, but never realized it had connective tissue beyond [examine bookshelf]. Where was this laid out?

This also 'explains' why Janine was listed as Charine. God damn GAMES JOURNALISTS1!!!!

File: VS_Seeker.png (310KB, 431x541px) Image search: [Google]

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I wonder if the Vs. Seeker was also Tajiri's idea.

>>32674163
Charine is a silly localization error.
>Where was this laid out?
Not sure.

>>32674237
I'll take your word for it, since I know damn well I've been in the same spot before (sans-source).

I always assumed the trinkets were a Sugi thing, which is why BW took a radically different approach to design (and exposition) with the likes of N's cube. In the 'Sugi only' era they were always function-driven, even going back to the RG badges on hats.

VS seeker shares visual DNA with the PokeNAV, to the PokeGear, to the Pokedex--and maintains that core PokeGear rematch function. He may've steered it, but fighting the same dudes with the same text strings feels a bit anti-Tajiri. Might be a coincidence Battle Tower came just as he stepped back, but I think the two are tied.

Just look at the way Tajiri used Kadabra against Arina, or speaks about Poliwhirl. He has a clear, personal love for the characters.

Cool thread, it's nice to see people who actually do something besides shitpost on /vp/. If only most people were like this.

>>32674321
>Might be a coincidence Battle Tower came just as he stepped back
Actually, the Battle Tower in Japanese Crystal is related to the Mobile System GB. How we got the "here, just battle some random NPC trainers that may have Scizor with Fire Blast" I don't know but the original idea of the Battle Tower was to allow you to compete against other players through the mobile network (it has the concept of a Room Leader and such as well).

The Pokégear's phone in Crystal actually got more varied yet still limited strings of text for the trainers that you had registered.

I see what you mean, though. The games today clearly lack that touch that Tajiri gave to the early ones.

>>32674321
>Tajiri used Kadabra against Arina
Whose Arina?

>>32674373
Oh yeah, I know about the mobile system, I just was theorizing this battle-driven mode, devoid of story and separate from the story, deviates from the 'tapestry' approach of Tajiri.

It may've simply been a logical conclusion of local battles, and may've simply come about due to the mobile adapter, but it also started a trend of in-game gauntlet battles.

I wouldn't even call it a lack of touch, just a focus in different areas. To oversimplify, I'd say Tajiri communicated more about creatures and how they interact with the world, while Masuda has communicated more about the world and how people fit into it.

>>32674411
Yeah, I fucked up there. Hopefully sempai didn't notice.

>>32674321
N's puzzle cube doesn't really serve any purpose besides being an object he carries around because he's a weirdo who likes math and puzzles. But I thought it was interesting that B2W2 brought back the 'call NPCs' feature with the Xtransceiver; even though you could only call certain important NPCs, they all had interesting things to say, like mom telling you about the place you're in, or Cheren giving you advice regarding your team.

>>32674373
>Scizor with Fire Blast
I don't know where I got that idea from but it seems to be a false memory.

https://github.com/pret/pokecrystal/blob/700321a7fb2d6c852ffc91cc0b8867526cb76813/data/battle_tower.asm

It's still insane because there is a Gyarados with Fire Blast, for example.

File: f0b7385daa09ed6a55647fe41ba4d8c3.jpg (82KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

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>>32674438
Yes, but N's cube being useless was my point. Unlike every 'thing' prior, this 'thing' wasn't clearly communicated to the player, gifted to the player, or even named.

Every game prior created a visual MacGuffin, which made people think N's cube was some sort of device, akin to a PokeBall.

Giving us nothing made us talk. Telling us "this is a useless trinket" would've killed that before it started, this is the difference in approach I was speaking to--nobody really speculated over the PokeNav.

More to the point, N's cube was designed to have function which we never saw, unless it was in the anime, but I didn't fuck with Best Wishes after it went to shit.

>>32674502
Huh, I guess I never really paid any attention to prerelease speculation then. I fully get what you mean, but I don't recall ever paying much attention to the damn thing, so I wasn't really disappointed that it never had any importance in the games.

File: 300px-Young_N.png (90KB, 300x212px) Image search: [Google]

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>>32674589
>didn't pay attention to BW hype

Man, you missed the best era. The dex leak, the speculation, and the actual pay-off those games gave made it the best time to be on vp. Or was it tr?

Right off of the reveal, folks speculated "N" was a Pokemon. In the early hype stage, Zoroark's Illusion ability was the most communicated fact about Gen 5, and this ability was central to the pre-BW summer film.

When we saw child N, living in the woods with a Zorua, wearing the puzzle cube, it was all but cemented. In game events for the Zor' pair pushed the narrative further, but still nothing connected it to N.

Then we got his full name, Natural Harmonia Gropius, and the theories were quickly relegated to dark corners of pure speculation.

>>32674686
>>32674589
I should add, BW have the most mystery of any Pokemon games, so there remains the possibility of that cube having an importance.

I initially assumed the 'forest shot' was N being discovered, but it could also be him showing solidarity. If that shot is 'post adoption', the cube might be a gift from Anthea and/or Concordia, who tended to him.

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>>32674686
Hey, I was hyped as hell for the games too, I just don't really care for crazy speculation when most of it ends up being completely wrong. I loved hearing about all the new monsters from CoroCoro.

>>32674738
>these reveals are nearly a decade old

Fuck.

I just found this and it's pretty interesting!

http://www.glitterberri.com/pokemon-gold-silver/spaceworld-97-demo/

>>32672354
you aren't a smart person

Why do you think Morimoto hasn't directed a game since HGSS? Everything he's directed has been well recieved.

>>32676428
Maybe because he is getting old. I think the only reason Ohmori became the new director was because ORAS sold more than XY.
Old staff is currently trying to retire. See Sugimori and Ohmori, but Ohmori just left.

>>32676457
Yeah, you can definitely tell with Sugimori that he's burnt out on Pokemon. Even in interviews it seems like he wants to do new things but feels like Pokemon's too big of a phenomena to be completely hands off.

>>32676457
Sugimori is trying to leave?

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When will Honoguma be brought back from the dead?

>>32676527
He's much less involved in recent games than what he once was. He did minimal character art for SM (only Hau, Hala, and Lillie iirc)

>>32676558
It's against a Metapod, by the way.

>>32676558
whoa, where's this from?

>>32676510
yeah he already said that during gen 5 and designing megas.

>>32676527
maybe not leave, but just taking a supervisor role. Look at zelda e.g. since skyward sword aonuma is only producer and super mario would now been kazumis franchise if miyamoto wouldn´t sperg about the galaxy.

I think Ohmura just saw that it will be like attached to a keychain if he gets sugis position.

Btw. I am currently in full Nostalgia mode, so I would really love to get a new Pokeymen with old sugi artstyle and tajiri.

>>32676567
World Hobby Fair in January 1998.

>>32676590
>that it will be like attached to a keychain

Is English your second language brah? I've never heard this turn of phrase before.

Also, how did Miyamoto sperg about Galaxy? Curious.

>>32676632
of course it is. Since I am not in school anymore and be a student my english became much worse. Fun thing: I study computer science.

Koizumi wanted story in it and Miyamoto said no. Koizumi still added story with the picture book or whatever(didn´t played it). Game got released, Miyamoto found out, 4 hour talk "why it is wrong to add story to mario". I kinda understand Miyamoto, because he said " Mario is played by every age group, so as a 40 year old man, I don´t want to see mario acting like child".

>>32676673
>Since I am not in school anymore and be a student my english became much worse.
hmm

>>32672323
Skateboard would've been cool

>>32673221
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_Gold_and_Silver_beta

We don't know much
>different maps
>skateboard used to travel to "unusual places"
>honey was supposed to be in the game
>hold items that prevent status conditions

>>32678039
ffs none of this points to it being an entirely different game. Maps and mechanics change all the time. For instance there was that "surfboard" in Gen1 they dropped.

>>32678114
There is no surfboard. The item is called ????? and was used for debugging.

>>32674686
Those were the best times. N's real name is Nikolai, and he is half pokemon, half human, half angel. Trust me, my dad works at Nintendo.

>>32672323
>make perfect games better
lel

>>32678779
>perfect

>>32672354
>based Iwata salvaging the trash code

one fucking reply in and someone is already spouting this retarded meme

I fucking hate this board

>>32679402
What actually happened?

>>32679431
Iwata developed some compression tools.

>>32679447
Another question, was the code built from the ground up or was it edited from RBY's?

>>32679462
Gold and Silver started from Red and Green but Game Freak revamped the engine significantly. Some old items like the Poké Flute are still programmed and usable, for example.

>>32679431
He built "compression tools." That's LITERALLY is all that's confirmed. Yet people always blow it up and act as if Iwata is some programming god that made half the game by himself because Game Freak is THAT bad and Iwata is THAT good

all hail le based dead iwata guys xD

>>32679487
Bird type is still in the game also.

>>32679489
It's only believable because Game Freak IS that bad and Iwata WAS that good.

>>32679447
>>32679462
>>32679487
>>32679489
GS is closer to Yellow than Red/Blue. For all intents and purposes it was a complete rewrite. I can't think of any code that wasn't refactored. Some artifacts from Yellow like the NPC slot for following Pikachu were left in and obviously not used.

Iwata's compression story is embellished a little. GSC do use the HAL compression tools, but they were first seen in Super Mario World. There are minor differences from game to game but it's effectively identical to the one used in the GB Kirby games.

My pet theory is that something happened in 1997 that made them go back to the drawing board. The early screenshots look like a modified Yellow. Somehow between Oct 1997 and Oct 1998, Tajiri was unceremoniously removed from development, Masuda pulled in, and the entire codebase was rewritten. This just does not happen without outside intervention. The new code was cleaner than anyone at Game Freak could have done in such a short time. It closely resembled the code style used in HAL's other GB games.

Iwata was involved, but I think all of HAL's GB staff were tasked with the rewrite. That is the only way you can go from Yellow 1.1 to GS in one year. Incidentally, HAL did not make any Game Boy games that year.

It's too suspicious that no one will say exactly what happened. Masuda said he was pulled from another project suddenly, and would not go into specifics. Around the same time, Tajiri fell off the face of the earth. And then Iwata of all people had to step in to... give them a tool that existed for 10 years already?

The compression story sounds like a cover.

>>32680167
That's a pretty interesting theory. Sounds pretty believable. Considering how Tajiri acts around people and the general tism shit, it wouldn't be hard to believe that he pissed off some higher up when he got in way over his head in the development of the game and forced out.

>>32679551
>It's only believable because Game Freak IS that bad and Iwata WAS that good.

No. Stop sucking Iwata's decomposed dick.

>>32680210
>implying that all people with autism act like tajiri