Why are grass starters so cucked? >lowest bst on average

most grass starters do suck, but water starters are more cucked, except for greninja, they're all unusable garbage

>>32661267
>water starters
>useless

At the most that mainly applies to samurott

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>>32661218
>uneven BST
STOP IT REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>32661267
>Primarina
>Shit
If it wasn't for Tapus it would've been OU.

>>32661282
in a serious competitive setting, fire has two good starters, grass also has two, but water has only one that anyone would ever consider for their team, and that's greninja.
water starters are all shit competitively, and that's coming from someone that loves water types

>>32661267
>>32661299
Almost every water starter is high UU at least.

>>32661304
>feraligatr
RU
>samurott
NU
>blastoise
RU, low UU with mega
>empoleon
low UU

>>32661300
That's fair, but Water is costantly good. It's by far the most consistent typing.

>>32661300
>in a serious competitive setting
Are you referring to VGC or smogon OU

>>32661315
To be fair, Feraligatr got the boot from RU until recently thank god

You forgot the competitive tier chart

UBER:
Blaziken

OU
Greninja

BL
Serperior

UU
Swampert
Empoleon
Infernape
Primarina
Decidueye

RU
Blastoise
Feraligatr
Swampert
Chesnaught

NU
Sceptile
Charizard
Typhlosion
Torterra
Emboar
Samurott
Delphox
Incineroar

PU
Meganium

>>32661315
B and B+ are not what I consider "low"

>>32661218
>Serperior, Venusaur,Sceptile, and Chesnaught are at least UU
>Decidueye would be UU if not for baton pass ban
Yeah no, water are the most cucked starters. Grenigger doesn't make up for it all

>>32661330
don't bother with a list unless you're including megas

>>32661267
>Swampert
>Primarina
>Unusable
Blastoise and Feraligatr are not THAT bad either

>>32661332
well i'll give you B+, that's about in the middle
but B rank is low tier, because anything below B- is unusable shitty gimmicks that only are there because someone wanted their favorite shitmon to have a rank in UU

>>32661335
Chesnaught is RU though

>>32661300
Mega Swampert is good in doubles, and base Swampert has its own niche.

>>32661356
a niche of being shit maybe
also, venu can be used with or without mega, meaning grass has 3 options
checkmate waterfags

>>32661337
OK.

UBER:
Blaziken-Mega

OU:
Greninja-Ash
Charizard-Mega X
Charizard-Mega Y
Venusaur-Mega

UU
Blastoise-Mega
Sceptile-Mega
Swampert-Mega

>>32661362
Swampert is A- in UU.

>>32661384
we're trying to talk about actually viable pokemon here, not "i-it's good in UU"

>>32661218
>Grass
Good: Venusaur, Serperior
Usable: Sceptile, Chesnaught*, Decidueye*
Bad: Meganium, Torterra

>Fire
Good: Charizard, Blaziken
Usable: Infernape
Bad: Typhlosion, Emboar, Delphox, Incineroar

>Water:
Good: Greninja
Usable: Empoleon, Primarina, Blastoise, Swampert
Bad: Feraligatr*, Samurott,

*: Debatable, I personally thing Decidueye is a shitmon but it is UU for now so I bumped it up. Feraligatr is pretty much a discount Gyarados/Sharpedo, Chesnaught seems to have peaked last gen but at least has a decently large support movepool, etc.

Overall, just going by this list, Grass is the best type, but Greninja is more "good" than say, Serperior is, so it's not really a worthwhile comparison to just compare types

>>32661362
It has a niche in doubles I mean, VGC specifically. Or had now that the season rules have changed.

>>32661376
And Doubles?
Doubles is the official format, after all

>>32661430
No, VGC is the sanctioned meta. Smogon doubles only has 3 tiers: Uber, OU and UU. I don't think a Doubles RU/NU/etc has been proposed because I don't think it's as popular a ladder as Singles

>>32661411
Then no Grass starters is good because all of them are low tier shitmons in OU. The only viable starters are Greninja, Ash-greninja, Mega Zards and Mega/regular Blaziken.

The rest are just filler.

>>32661430
All starters are irrelevant in vgc except the Gen VII ones. Alola dex only

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>>32661441
Except for one.

>>32661469
tell em owlbro!

Ubers:
>C Rank
Blaziken

OU:
>A+ Rank
Greninja, Ash Greninja

>A- Rank
Charizard Y

>B+ Rank
Serperior

>B Rank
Charizard X

>B- Rank
Mega Venusaur

UU:
>A Rank
Primarina

>A- Rank
M-Blastoise, Swampert

>B+ Rank
Infernape

>C+ Rank
Chesnaught

I didn't bother going further because I'm sure we can alla gree that the rest are shitmons. Rankings will change once the Hoenn megastones are out, that I'll concede. M-Sceptile may be a very potent threat in UU since there are plenty of Dragons and Water-types to outspeed there, and it really only fears a handful of revenge killers and walls. Maybe A rank?

>>32661353
My bad haven't used chesnaught since gen 6 I guess

>>32661490
>Maybe A rank?
Not when everything in A+/S can beat it.

all starters should have 550 bst t b h

>>32661531
It loses 1v1 to everything in UU S-rank but Scizor, so it can't be S rank

It has an okay matchup with Bisharp and beats Krookodile outright, but loses to Keldeo and probably can't do much to Cobalion, so not A+ rank

However, it pretty much beats everything in A- rank so it doesn't make sense for it to fall below there.

>>32661490
Decidueye is also UU

>>32661748
He's talking about the viability ranks, not tiering itself. For instance, Serperior is viable in OU but was UU in usage and later banned to BL. Chesnaught is RU but it has a tiny niche in UU hence the C+ rank. and so on.

Decidueye is UU by usage, but completely unviable there.

>>32661267
>Water starters
>Cucked

Made me laugh. Especially with Primarina around, who's handling shit moderately better than the other two.

>>32661218
bst does not make a pokemon great. it is the distribution that matters.
aslo, most starters are designed with the main game in mind, not competitive. obviously there are exceptions, but grass types usually hold well in the story modes.

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>>32661866
>tfw Primarina will be the first and only starter to ever get nerfed

>>32661413
Honestly this is a pretty good list, the only arguable one is feraligatr, but that's probably just the nostalgia talking. Great job.

>>32661962
Except all the fucking starters have samey distributions dumbass, none of them are exceptional or terrible in one stat. 10 BST can make a difference

>>32661218
The only bad grass starter is Meganium.
Fire has Typhlosion, Emboar and Delphox.
Water has Samurott.

Fire is the type with the most underperforming starters.

>>32662171
Magician should work like knockoff and deal double damage for any attack if the other pokemon is holding an item...or would that be too broken?

>>32661490
Is Feraligatr not good in UU or something? I thought it got booted there. Or is Gyarados still UU?

>>32661970
>This is what owlcucks actually believe

>>32662209
Perhaps, but it doesn't make sense with the intention of the ability. It's meant to be a "Hocus pocus and now i've got your item!" trick. Knock Off effect seems more like a stealthy move and it does not fit magician nor delhpox at all.

>>32662229
Feraligatr's RU now.

>>32661300
>it's not OU so it's terrible
Play some more before forming an opinion

>>32662254
Magic tricks tend to knock people off their feet. :3c