How the flying fuck are truth and ideals in conflict with one

>>32657714
You can say the same about every box legend in and after gen 4

>>32657719
Despite having lore more shallow than the Regis (in debut), at least Xerneas and Yveltal's life vs death aspect works.
At least the sun and moon are common thematic pairs
At least time and space works because of the whole spacetime philosophy shtick

>>32657714
Truth and ideals can only exist in harmony when there is an entity powerful enough to be the end of both. It's classic Latin theology about the end of man. The end of man is to contemplate the Essence of God, the human intellect being perfected by grace. Thus God is both truth and the ultimate ideal, all in one.

>>32657714
Favouring a bitter truth over a sweet lie, pertaining to logic rather than emotions, or vice versa? Mqybe that's what they meant.

>>32657739
I was referring to
>Also, how does Reshiram represent truth and Zekrom represent ideals?
because none of the designs (maybe lunala) really demonstrate what they represent. at least kyogre is some fucking fish and groudon a weird godzilla thing

>>32657812
When Yveltal was first revealed people immediately thought of it as a harbinger of death.
People were reminded of birds of prey and the red/black color schemed bolstered the idea of decay

>>32657824
Maybe I'm just not that imaginative. I didn't think of anything when I saw them.

>>32657812
Kyogre and Groudon are representative of the biblical beasts Leviathan and Behemoth though.

>>32657812
The weather trio represent the behemoth, leviathan, and ziz

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There's also this thing. Ever read Aristotle?

>>32657714
I'm not sure but I want to impregnate both.

Zekrom's generator tail represents the ideal power source: clean, cold, electricity.

Reshiram's reactor tail represents the true, effective power source: nuclear energy.

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>>32657714
Truth = right wing
Ideals = left wing

But I think the representation thing is inversed in this duo, Ideals are beautiful and always asociated with heroes of pure hearth, it should by Reshiram.

And truth is followed for strong cold people and asociated with iron fist leaders, it should be represented by Zekrom.

>>32657714
>How the flying fuck are truth and ideals in conflict with one another?
They aren't. They need to be in balance, some people may prioritize one over the other.
>Why couldn't the brothers just pursue truth AND ideals?
Because they were idiot extremists. That's the point.
>Also, how does Reshiram represent truth and Zekrom represent ideals?
>There's nothing in their design or characteristics that have this aspect.
See >>32657899
Also >>32651512 >>32651613 >>32651726

>>32657903
Nazikrom and Reshicuck

>>32657824
>people immediately thought of it as a harbinger of death
Could of sworn they thought of it as a harbinger of bacon.

>>32657903
>The Black Dragon is Right
Kek

>>32658016
That as well and about 15 percent were dumb enough to think it represented sound
Remember the Sound and Light type predictions?

>>32657903
Except when it comes to policy, most left policy stances and plans are more in line with empircal evidence then right wing ones

nice try though

>>32658034

Like how there's 393 genders and how socialism leads to prosperity?

I know what you mean, those ignorant right wingers are completely idiotic

>>32657903
>applying American politics to legendaries inspired by the Chinese yin and yang.

>yinyang dragon thread leads to political shitposting
Haha Gen 5.

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>>32658070
For an american based region

>>32658027
They were kind of right with Light. Fairy, and all.

But only kind of.

>>32658034
see >>32658065

>>32658205
I always wanted to try those growing up.

yinyang. the Brothers were supposed to be wrong, the dragons were seperated and that is wrong, they were supposed to be together, truth and ideals shall not be seperated. The black and white dragons clearly represents the Yinyang theme.

>>32657714
imagine your dad is sick, like he had a heart attack a short time ago.
now your mom dies in an accident or whatever
if you're for truth you'd tell him she died because he deserves to know
if you're for ideals you'd probably not tell him, at least not now when he is so weak and may die from the shock.
now which one is the most correct? which one respects your dad's humanity?
the one who protects him while hiding the truth or the one who despite the pain it may bring tells him?

>>32658205
What? But isn't only castellia city based on anything American? I haven't played gen 5 in years so maybe I just forgot.

>>32657923
That's some good analysis.

You can change the ideals of the future, but you can't change the current truth. Both must exist.

>>32658268
Yeah, the entire region is kind of like New York, but also squishes other American ideas into it (driftveil and cowboys, Nacrene and detroit (I think? idk,) lentimas and the Hopi and/or Mexico and/or New Mexico I guess, Humilau and Hawai'i or Cali, etc)

>>32657903
>Truth = right wing
Ah. Yes. That must be why extreme right-wingers choose to reject evolution.

>>32658268
Charizard bridge/drifteil bridge is Goldengate bridge
See braviary
route 4 is like nevada
They say the whole region is based on new york but some places take inspiration from the other states in US.

>>32657812
>Kyogre
>a fish
(You)

The Gen 5 main trio seems to have the most abstract basis compared to all the others

>>32657903
Ideals = right wing
Different, opposing Ideals = left wing

Truth and ideals really aren't parallels. Both can work with each other just as easily as they can work against each other.

To be honest though, the game hardly dwells on the meaning of ether term within the context of the game, so I don't really think it matters in the end.

>>32658286
>>32658307
And yet (you) have the guts to say that Kalos is a theme park version of France.

>>32658291
Ehh, neither extreme is correct. you've got extreme leftists denying the fact that there are only 3 genders. Male, Female, and Attack Helicopter
intersex is a birth defect, and trannys are mental illness

>>32657714
Reshiram is red-pilled and Zekrom is blue-pilled, it matches the color of their energies.

>>32657903
Mate, I don't think you want to go down this path.

>>32657714
Why would you not pick truth? Do you want someone to lie to you instead? It's retarded. No one ever thinks of yeah truth and ideals that age old opposing issue. Doesn't make much sense. I made a thread about this way back when. There is some point to it. Think of this.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=AnaQXJmpwM4

They could have explained it better though. It's still dumb

>>32657824
I saw it as a Y

>>32658065
>Like how there's 393 genders
He said policy.

>and how socialism leads to prosperity?
This sentence only makes sense if you consider socialism and capitalism as mutually exclusive. Without socialism we wouldn't have schools or roads or a military, and to the extent we did have those things theyed be horrible.

A 100% capitist system is just as bad as a 100% socialist system. All left with wing policies do it attempt to shift the balance so America doesn't have medical system that's the laughing stock of the world.
Also if I could just turn it around
>teach creationism in schools
>act as is climate change isn't happening
>truth

>>32658065
>>32658234
Off the top of my head

>Right wing stances that aren't based in evidence
Abortion
Sex education
Climate change
Pretty much anything to do with science and technology
Pretty much fucking everything to do with regulation of buisnsess and corporations somehow leading to better competiton and less fucking over of consumers/the world

>Left wing stances that aren't based in evidence
muh diversity
gun control

I stand by my original statement.

Reshiram and Zekrom don't actually represent truth or ideals. It's more like they're searching for a hero who represents truth or ideals. The dual nature of the game and how N's searching for truth or ideals depending on the version is supposed to show that truth and ideals are bit that different.

And no, I'm not saying this is some deep shit, just satisfactory.

>>32657841
I understood that reference and I want to fucking murder you for it.

>>32658291
>Extreme right wingers
Extremists of either kind are bad, extremism is all based on ideals and doesn't seek basis in truth

>>32658865
>gun control
If you want to claim sacrificing freedom for safety isn't worth it that's one thing, but it is a statistical fact (with outliers of course) that in general the less guns / better gun regulation in an area the less gun violence in that area.

But gun control is a kind of a pointless debate, since its basically two sides yelling over each other.
>we want reasonable gun regulations
>did you hear that? They want to ban all guns!

The simple fact is that there was nowhere to go after the Pokémon of space and time and the God Pokémon. The concept of Reshiram and Zekrom were underwhelming, and many of the Unova Pokémon were shit. The only thing that saved it was more attention to plot and inevitable generational upgrades.

>>32657714
I've always felt there was some sort of aspect that was lost in translation during localization. The ideas, words, or concepts they meant to use may not actually exist outside Japan. "Truth and ideals" were probably the best they could come up with at the time.

Me personally, I think the truth bit has more to do with cynicism or nihilism--seeing the world for what it really is. All is absolute. Kinda red pill-esque. While the ideals bit has more to do with ambition, optimism and believing that things can or will get better and there's good in all things. Fate can be defied. Or some shit. The yin and yang thing is what may or may not shit on my explanation, but I can't say for sure because I'm not going to sit here and pretend I know anything about those concepts besides some Chinese cartoon shit.

>>32657714
>How the flying fuck are truth and ideals in conflict with one another?
If you submit to the current truth absolutely, you won't be able to change things for the better; but if you get lost in ideals to the point of becoming blind to reality, then your actions will backfire. Both aspects of life need to be in balance.

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>>32658762
>Darwinian evolution
>Global warming
I'm 100% sure that these are true, though I have no proof.
I do have the mainstream media, and they're always right.

>>32658291
Not the Nazi kind.
But I think that Hitler was an extremist centrist.

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>>32658699
I'll have to remember this.

>>32657714
Truth = reality
Ideals = Utopia

Utopia brother was a stubborn philosopher defined by inaction, truth brother was a pessimist realist

Both were gay

>>32657903
>Truth = right wing
Good joke.

>>32663861
>Truth = left wing

Top cuck

>>32661850
I didn't mean all of gun control/it as a concept, I meant just how the american left has gone about it in particular.

They don't try to ban guns or regulate them in any way that's correlated with any actual reduction in deaths or injuries, they just go after whatever sounds or seem scaryor ban guns after an attack happened to be done with that model. Like, you can have two weapons that fire the excact same cartridge with the same ammo capacity with the same firing rates and one will be banned and one won't just because the banned one uses sleek plastic/metal fruniture and lookes scarier.

>>32657714
The idea isn't that they're opposites, it's that you shouldn't have one while excluding the other. I.e. how N came to temper his idealism with the truth that pokemon trainers weren't as evil as he thought, yadda yadda.

Their designs don't really reflect their stated theme so much as the more "Traditional versus Technological improvement" theme in the BW setting, though, no.

>>32657812
I thought Groudon and Kyogre were based on the red oni and blue oni from Japanese folklore.

>>32664939
Jesus Christ, no. Are you retarded?

>>32661850
>in general the less guns / better gun regulation in an area the less gun violence in that area.
Except the complete opposite is true.

>we want reasonable gun regulations
>did you hear that? They want to ban all guns!
Nice strawmen.

>>32664957
It's a new meme, familia. He's just pretending to be retarded.

>>32657714

Truth and Ideals are meant to be cyclical with one fueling the other. However, since they've lost their third aspect, perspective, the two became stark and independent from one another.

Reshiram takes the world as it is without personal interpretation to seek objective truth leading to its flowing, organic design. Zekrom views the world idealistically, believing that the truths one chooses to accept rather than what is considered objective is the means to proceed in life, leading to its sleeker, almost mechanical design.

>>32664994
>new

>>32665119
I really like this.

Ideals conflict with truth because they aren't grounded in reality.
Truth is how things actually are in the real world, ideals represent how things should be in a perfect and impossible (thus false) set of circumstances.

Design wise, Zekrom is an idealized organism, something that looks like it was artificially enhanced until it reached a perfect form. It also looks alien compared to most Pokemon, like something that couldn't possibly come from nature. This reflects the utopic nature of ideals.
Reshiram on the other hand is very organic looking, resembling a "true" Pokemon, and it's light-themed design reflects the pure, unadulterated nature of truth.

Reshiram = truth = good= white = angelic design.

Zekrom = lies = bad = black = machine/weapon design.

>>32666675
I don't think Zekrom is supposed to be painted in a negative light, even if it's not perfect.
After all, a lot of official art depicts N as getting Reshiram meaning the main character would get Zekrom and prove him wrong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F4PiWYc1Rw