Ice now resists Grass, Ground, Flying, And Normal. Fairy can

>>32636847
>Fairy immunity
Well, you did make ice better, not gonna lie.

>Water SE on ice
Well, you did make water broken, not gonna lie.

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>>32636847
All hail your new queen

>>32636847

>ice is now weak to water

Nope

>ice is now weak to water

Fuck u

>>32636847
>Water weakness
>Not buffing Hail

You didn't fix it

>>32636847

Make fighting resist ice, and this should be okay.

>>32636847
Let's not give Aurorus any more 4x weaknesses.
It's bad enough being a plate glass dinosaur.

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>>32636847
Ice already has the second highest amount of weaknesses of any type, fuck you they do NOT need another.

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>>32636847
>Ice now resists Grass
Stopped reading there. Fuck your shit type, Grass doesn't deserve more nerfs

>>32636847
ill do you better

>ice now does neutral damage to water types
>ice loses rock and fighting weakness (not all ice types are literally rocks of ice)
>steel weakness kept s it wont be total shit
>ice type now resistant to fairy

not all types should be equally strong.

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reminder that buffing Ice offensively just means you're making water better

don't make water better.

>>32636847
>Resist grass
to be really honest here, I think grassbros are the only justifiable people who suffer.
At least ice has good offense.

>>32636847
>Nerfing Grass and Normal
>Buffing Water
Did a woodland mammal touch you as a child?

>>32637125
Agreed.
Instead, making more stuff resist water instead of ice being super effective against stuff.
Or remove ice beam from every water type that isn't part ice. I'd like to see that.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Type/Type_chart

Which changes would you revert? Which ones would you make?

>>32636847
Ice now resists water, fairy and flying
It's now one of the best types.
+ slight nerf to three of the strongest types

>all ice types and ice type moves are retconned into being water type
There. I fixed this half assed type.

>>32636847
Ice types now resists water and ice moves are supereffective against water.

Bug is now supereffective against fairy. Or at the very least fairy no longer resists bug.

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>>32637194
>regiwater

>>32637168
This. Water+Ice is only resisted by Water itself (unless freeze-dry in involved).
Also:
>Make Poison SE to water types and have it resist Water too
>Give several fire types Sludge Bomb
>Give Grass types moves like Power Gem

>>32637211
Ice being weak to Water makes more sense, though.

>>32637218
Ice is solid water

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>>32637241
fucking how

>>32637175
>Between Generations V and VI
>Ghost and Dark were made 1× against Steel instead of ½×
wtf

>>32637245
Water melts ice, grade 4 science dude

>>32637245
higher specific heat capacity or whatever. Put an equal amount of ice with an equal amount of water and the ice will melt because water handles temperature changes better when it's a liquid rather than a solid. Frankly water resisting ice makes more sense than the other way around but who knows how the fuck gamefreak handles types

>>32637245
Something something specific heat and salt water. It's retarded for balancing and only makes sense with this one fact.
Put a cup of water in the freeze and it freezes.
Put ice cubes in a pool and they melt.
Water and Ice should resist each other instead and make it so Scald is a Freeze-Dry clone.

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>>32637275
>Water and Ice should resist each other instead and make it so Scald is a Freeze-Dry clone

>>32637267
no, that's only if that water is in a specific temperature
cold shit freezes water
cold shit = ice
therefore ice > water

>>32637175
>Ice now resists ground and water
>Grass loses weakness to Flying/Ice
>Grass now immune to fairy
>Rock loses weakness to Water/Ground
>Poison SE vs Water
>Fire loses fairy resistance and rock weakness

How would this affect the balance?

>>32637280
>buffing scald

>>32637243
>ground is dusted rock

>>32637035
we grassfags need to stick together

>>32637181
>>32637211

Hey look, it's another episode of retards think that ice should resist water.

It was explained already, heat capacity is one of the most important properties of water, as a liquid it is insanely high.

To put it into simple terms the amount of energy water can store when compared to other elements is insane, when other liquids are put on the same condition as water they will change state while water will remain in a stable molecular form.

Compared to solids like Ice putting the same amount of energy required to go into evaporation would cause the link between the molecules to rupture violently and in an explosive way known as sublimation.

In retrospective to freeze water you need to subtract a lot more energy than it was s needed to melt ice.

This property is the most important when we talk about how life formed in this planet, specific heat is the main reason weather self regulates and allowed primal life to exist in the primitive oceans.

Heat capacity is cool bro.

>>32637289
I have no clue, go ask smogon

>>32637289
Why not remove the Rock type altogether?

>>32637294
It would be 20% chance to burn on 70bp.

It's a fair nerf, hitting ICE SE is a good trade off for making it less spamable.

>>32637294
Making Scald a Freeze-Dry clone will nerf its power and would reduce burn chances to 10%

>>32637286
>>32637289

More idiots that don't understand how heat capacity works.

It takes little energy to melt ice, to freeze water you need to subtract more than 20 times that amount, heck a little increase in mass of the body of water can skyrocket the energy needed to be subtracted from the system by up to 50 times that.

>>32637376
Don't you mean 10%?

>>32637399
>Caring more about science in a fictional RPG than balancing out the best and worst all around types
People like you disgust me

>>32637298
Retconning Rock to Ground would work wonders in helping fix Rock desu

>>32637399
>hail now removes Ice's Water weakness
>it also increases the power of Ice moves and the Defense of Ice mons by 1.5x

Better?

>>32637453
Ice doesn't have a water weakness. Do you mean Ice's water resist?

>>32637470
You should see the first post.

>>32637452
See >>32637375

>>32637313
Indeed. Which, while I do support the idea of Ice resisting Grass, I compensate by giving Grass an automatic 1/16 heal in Sun and Rain, 1/8 in heavy sun/rain, and a full immunity to Fairy, along with universal access to Earth Power and/or Power Gem and a 5 BP increase to Giga Drain.

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>>32637578
>Indeed. Which, while I do support the idea of Ice resisting Grass, I compensate by giving Grass an automatic 1/16 heal in Sun and Rain, 1/8 in heavy sun/rain, and a full immunity to Fairy, along with universal access to Earth Power and/or Power Gem and a 5 BP increase to Giga Drain.

To continue on this:
>Water is now weak to Poison
>Ice now resists Flying, Grass, Water ground and itself
>Rock resists Water and call Pokémon that have dex entries talking about how they don't like water get the ability "Hydrophobia" where they lose all of their weaknesses in exchange for a 4x Water weakness
>Bug now either neutral or SE to Fairy and no longer resisted by Fire or Fighting

>>32636875
Underrated

>>32637578
Make it so that flying doesn't resist grass, maybe make fairy and electric weak to grass as well to make up for poor offense. Make grass resist rock, too.

When it comes to ice, I'd recommend making fire weak to it. Most RPGs have that trope and this wouldn't buff water seeing that they already beat fire.

Let ice resist dragon, fairy, and be immune to itself

>>32637260
they tried to keep aegislash balanced. It didn't work.

>>32638426
>electric weak to grass
I legit believed this for a while.

>>32638426
>Make it so that flying doesn't resist grass
Why? Flying is fine.

>maybe make fairy and electric weak to grass as well to make up for poor offense.
I pondered Fairy, Electric is just stupid.

>Make grass resist rock, too.
Perhaps

>When it comes to ice, I'd recommend making fire weak to it. Most RPGs have that trope and this wouldn't buff water seeing that they already beat fire.
No

>>32637362
>It's another episode of retards thinking pokemon weaknesses have to make sense in physics

Half of the type chart makes no fucking sense, we have types like Dark, Fairy and Psychic that have no equivalent in the real world. Types like Dark and Fairy were created to fix balance issues in the type chart.

Ice is way too weak and water is way too good. That's literally all that's relevant.

>let's "balance" ice by giving it a million new resistances
Every time

Ice's problem is that it's an offensive type but the actual Ice type Pokemon don't have good exclusive Ice moves, and since everything learns Ice Beam, it's easy to slap that coverage on teams

>>32636847
the normal resistance is kinda irrelevant
and water>ice is completely retarded, what the fuck were you thinking?
anyway, I'd make rock neutral to ice

>>32639361
are you retarded? ice's one problem is literally the lack of defensive capabilities
even normal is better

>>32636847
Give it more covfefe

>>32636847
Here's a better fix.

Ice now resists Ground, Flying, and Water
Ice is no longer weak to Rock.

Ice is now the only type that can safely switch in on Water types.

>>32639376
Oh yeah, and give Freeze Dry better availability.

On these notes, why is Bug weak to Fire? Because bugs die when you set them on fire? Because guess what? Everything (barring some archaeobacteria) dies at those temperatures. Bug should have less weaknesses. Rock SE against Bug makes sense, as crushing bugs under rocks is an iconic thing.

>>32636847
>grass
>normal
doesn't need any more nerfs
>ground
>flying
Cool
>fairy
makes little sense, but it's balanced because fairy is OP as fuck
>water
Doesn't need any more buffs. Also, it would make more sense if Ice and Water both resisted each-other, save for scald and freeze-dry

>>32639390
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWTdXMgp6cA.

>>32639390
A lot of kids do (did?) bug hunting in japan, and a lot of little shits burn them, either with matches or with magnifying glasses.
Three weaknesses are fine, problem is that they are extremely common offensive types.


Let's be clear, guys, the one thing I wish GF removed or nerfed to hell and back is Stealth Rock. That shit alone makes entire types unavailable.

>>32639390
What the first reply said
I also somehow imagine silky bug bodies are more flammable than, say, flesh

Though at that point you could say that fire should do extra damage to anything with fur or feathers, which would be stupid

>>32639403
You know what? If SR got nerfed, I would say that Bug is fine defensively.
Yes, being weak to Fire, Rock, and Flying is awful, but keep in mind that they're also resistant to Fighting and Ground, which are also incredibly common attack types. There's a reason that Bug/Steel is such a solid defensive typing, it's because Bug gives some really solid resists that you can't really get with other types. Hell, Bug's unique resistances can make Rock a viable defensive typing, that's impressive.

>>32639415
Two good resistance on their own can't really compensate three big weaknesses, especially when ground is so common that a lot or pokemon have is as non-stab coverage. In combination with steel and few others it works, but pure bug is trash.

>>32639421
>But pure bug is trash
Can you be so sure? The only decent pure Bug Pokemon we've ever gotten was Pinsir, and it was an offensively oriented Pokemon that was stuck with a typing that sucks for offense.
I think that, if we were ever to get a pure Bug that had defense oriented stats, it could make for a decent wall against Pokemon that don't carry Rock/Fire/Flying moves, which is actually a good amount of mons.

The real problem with pure Bug is the fact that damn near everything and their mothers resist the poor type.

>>32639421
Frankly it's not pure bug that needs fixing, it's bug/poison and bug/flying, there pretty much aren't pure bug types other than pinsir

>>32639446
Bug/Flying just needs to be deleted, it's such an awful typing.

>>32636847
Does anyone actually believe Gamefreak will ever readjust the type chart?

>>32639472
They did for gen 2 and 6
But you may be correct to assume that type balancing won't happen without the addition of a new type

>>32636847
Making anything weak to the type with the highest population is not good

>>32639472
See >>32637175

>>32639449
Okay so what are Butterfree, Beautifly, Ninjask, Mothim, Vespiquen, and Vivillon gonna be now?
Holy fuck gen 7 is the only game to not introduce a bug/flying 'mon

>>32637014
Did you even read his post? He gave Ice a total of 3 resistances and 1 immunity.

>>32636847
>nerfing grass for no reason

Fuck off

>>32636847
>grass and normal

Might as well resist bug too while you're at it

>>32640308
If Steel can have 10 resistances, an immunity, and only 3 weaknesses then ice can have four resistances, an immunity, and four weaknesses.

>>32640454
Steel's resistances and weaknesses have changed over time though.

>>32640454
I only need to buff Grass, Bug, and Psychic now.

>>32640466
You're right, it used to have MORE than 10 resistances to go along with it's immunity and only three weaknesses.

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Here, let me just quickly fix everything:

>Ice-types get a 50% Defense boost in Hail
>Ice now resists Flying and Ground
>Water is now weak to Poison
>Fairy is now weak to Bug

In other words:
>Ice gets a huge buff
>Hail teams are viable for the first time in their existence
>Earthquake spam nerfed
>Birdspam nerfed (even though birdspam isn't as bad as it was in Gen VI, Supersonic Skystrike is still pretty much the deadliest Z-Move on Pokemon like Landorus-T, Salamence, Dragonite and Gyarados)
>Water nerfed
>Fairy nerfed
>Poison buffed
>Bug buffed

All of these buffs and nerfs are perfectly reasonable and justified and the metagame would be much more balanced. It's that easy.

>>32636847
Ice is now weak to everything but hits everything super effectively with Ice-type STAB moves. Pokemon using Ice-type attacks are subject to Ice's original type advantages.

>>32639704
>Bug/Psychic
>Bug
>Its type never really mattered in the first place.
>Shouldn't even exist
>Bug
>Bug/Fairy

>>32641046
I still don't get why people think Water-types are overpowered.

>>32641129
They're not necessarily "overpowered" but they've consistently been among the absolute best Pokemon since the beginning. Water is such an all-around great type that it's perfectly viable in any competitive role: there are excellent Water-type physical walls, special walls, support Pokemon, pivots, physical sweepers and special sweepers, and I honestly can't think of any other type like this. This is all because Water-type doesn't really have any major drawbacks worth mentioning regardless of whether we're look at it as an offensive or a defensive type, and this makes Water so dominant when talking about competitive playing, especially if we look at monotype battles and weather teams where Water-types are even more powerful than usual. It's only fair that a type like this gets nerfed.

>>32641215
Makes sense, I guess. Maybe I was just being blind or some shit, water-types tend to be more of my favorites.

>>32641129
>>32641215
It also helps that Water has no real safe counters. Electric takes neutral damage while Grass risks eating an Ice move, since every water knows ice.
Actually, Grass taking neutral damage from ice would be a nice buff for them.

>>32641390
Additionally, buffing Grass indirectly nerfs Water if you don't want to directly mess with Water's type chart.

>>32641408
Exactly. Grass could use the help, anyway.

>>32641390
>It also helps that Water has no real safe counters
Adding to this: Scald has no safe switch-ins outside of Water Absorb / Storm Drain Pokemon since the only type immune to burn takes super effective damage from it. This makes Scald one of the two most spammable moves in competitive play (the other being Knock Off) and gives bulky Water-types a huge advantage over other defensive Pokemon since they have a ridiculously good STAB move that is essentially an offensive and defensive move at the same time.

>>32641439
Not to mention that it cripples physical Water-types as well.

Fuck Scald.

>>32641215
Damn water

>>32636847
No, this is awful, and Water doesn't need a buff.

>>32641439
Scald can no longer burn Water and Grass Pokemon.
Does this help?

Water should resist Ice and Ice resist water, however the Fairy Immunity, grass resist, and flying resist would make it better.

How will Bug, Grass, and Poison be fixed?

>>32642737
You fix bug by making it resist fairy and ghost, and giving it better moves either in the support side or the offensive side.

You fix grass by making it resist fairy and rock, and giving it rock and ground coverage to deal with fire the same way water deals with it by having ice coverage.

You fix poison by making it super effective against water and making it resist steel because metal corrosion is a thing.

One remove all ice types move from water Pokemon except Water/Ice type. Since most people would rather have a Water type with an Ice type move without STAB than an Ice type Pokemon for the STAB.
Give Ice a few resistances like Flying and Ground.
Grass should resist Fairy types.
Fairy no longer resist Bug types

>>32639403
Rock types eating stealth rock the same way poison types do toxic spikes would do wonders for balance.

>>32641129
ICE BEAM
SCALD
RAIN

>>32642799
Nihilego would become even stronger.

>>32642821
every rock type would be better, yeah.
Nihilego isn't the only rock type

>>32642760
>remove Ice type moves from water types
no
Give Ice types better coverage instead. Crippling an entire type's movepool is retarded especially since more than water types learn ice moves