>Flat out banning Baton Pass altogether HAHAHAHAHAHAH Holy

>>32622005
>STILL no one will call them out on it

Because the people who actually play OU (i.e. not you) know exactly why it should go.

>>32622107

Defog is a thing.

>>32622005
It's about time. Now people can stop whining about "muh complex bans"

>>32622198
What does that have anything to do with Baton Pass? Did you mean to type Haze?

>>32622320

Huh. Actually, yeah, I did, but somehow thought Defog instead. I guess my mind was in a bit of a haze.

>>32622005
>Making fun of them for playing a children's game.
>Making fun of them for not respecting the game.

>it's another "person who doesn't understand why Baton Pass is unhealthy for 6v6 singles" makes a thread mocking the ban of Baton Pass in 6v6 singles episode

I don't even know why I bother trying to change people's minds anymore; I spent half of the last thread we had on this laying out very clearly the compelling arguments for why it needed to go and showed that every other style (including HO, Balance, and Stall) were equally disadvantaged, and literally the only arguments I got back were "ur low ladder XD". How fucking pathetic is that, honestly? Does that make people feel good about themselves? I don't see how anyone could type out a post like that, solve the captcha, read it back to themselves, and still think 'aight yeah I'm gonna post this'.

Whatever. It was needed. If you don't agree with the decision to ban, I don't know what else I can say.

>>32622404
I'm just happy it's gone.

>>32622338
There's around 6 pokemon that have any business running haze and they're either slow, frail, or have no business in OU. In a well constructed Baton Pass team, haze does almost nothing, unless the person using it makes a mistake.

>>32622005
Smogon is conglomerate autism

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>>32622005
>Clear smog is a thing

OU is a joke anyway.

>>32622005
Oh boy, I can't wait until verlisfurry makes a 10+min video on this to get money from the stupid kids like OP.

>>32622404
>laying out very clearly the compelling arguments
if no one believed you they're not very compelling are they
try actually convincing people instead of shitting yourself and crying that you're right

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I wish they'd given a no-statpassing clause a chance. I like BP as a pivot.

>>32622701
I always used baton pass on wish healers (tried it on mega absol and vaporeon)
but I guess no fun is allowed once you find a new popular strat, change is bad, stealth rocks is good

>>32622338
You were thinking of nerfing stealth rock instead

>>32622404
I'm genuinely curious about what was such a problem with baton pass. I mean I understand scolipede can pass speed to super strong slow mons and they can sweep, but it's so obvious when someone's doing it and it's just asking for you to setup yourself. Someone pls explain why they got rid of baton pass

>>32622756
It's a big problem when the recipient is a Necrozma or Magearna, which are pretty much the best things you could pass multiple boosts to. Also Scolipede isn't the only one who can do this.

>>32622198
This amount of irony in this post is delicious.

>>32622872
>two or three pokemon get strong when you let them go fast
>ban baton pass from everybody
SMOGON™
what stopped people from killing the baton pass user
and why were two legends such a big problem when they weren't the first high attack+bulk low speed mons
why not just make a special exception to bump them to ubers

Remember, like, three gens ago when Baton Pass was considered a gimmicky and unreliable strategy that ultimately wouldn't get you any farther than beating low ladder scrubs?

>>32622931
and during gen 2 sandstorm was considered to be a sad excuse of a move as well
things change

>>32622005
Reminder that Smogon did nothing other than put up the suggestion of banning it, because it was suspected of being unhealthy.

That is all you can blame Smogon for.

The ban is entirely on the community. If you wanted an opinion, you got good, got the required ranks, and voted.
And the vote said that it needs to go.

Blame the community. Alternatively, yourself for not even being a part of the vote because you're more of a shitter than anyone else.

>>32622943
Sandstorm is still a shit move, it's the weather that got better (and Tyranitar).

>>32622953
There was no test.

>>32622872
But isn't that a legitimate strategy? What makes shit like stall and unaware clef with comic power okay but not baton pass? I understand when they ban individual mons for being overpowered, I get limiting to one baton pass user per team, but doesn't it kind of seem like they favor certain powerful setups over others? Maybe I don't know enough about it yet but this change just seems like it'll limit the options in OU even further when so many people have practically identical teams already

>>32622910
When you need a specific type to counter something, isn't that busted?

>>32622983
Not him, but Unaware Clef with Cosmic Power gets 4MSS which makes it substantially easier to deal with. In addition if it doesn't have a way around status you can Toxic it or Taunt it down (and Toxic/Taunt are extremely common).

>>32622995
But that's kinda how the game works, some teams have big advantages if the other team doesn't have the coverage to counter it, think of things like scizor or ferrothorn or heatran

>>32622995
why do you need a specific type
how about just killing the baton passer while they set up
or doing something creative, who knows
or start running counters until it's not 100% viable anymore, you faggots all have like 60% identical teams in OU anyway
why was this a non issue since baton pass/speed boost existed but all of a sudden it's literally uncounterable ding dong bannu

>>32623045
Especially since mons in the meta that don't use baton pass have just gotten better and better

>>32622005
t. Scolipede

>>32623076
it's a good thing that baton pass users and recipients have gotten better as well then

has smogon still not unbanned greninja from ubers in xy?

>>32623100
But again, what's wrong with it is a strategy? That it's too easy? Why not ban dragon dance or anything that allows single mons to sweep?

>>32623117
As*

Why does Smogon keep beating around the bush?
JUST FUCKING BAN THE SUPER GRENIGGER BROS ALREADY

>lol gotta waste time suspecting Dugtrio even though we already know it's not a broken mon
>lol gotta waste time suspecting Pheromosa because we were too stupid to use the Quiver Dance set and not quick banning after Aegislash fucked off because lol idunno?!?!?
>lol um, well Baton Pass is broken even though we fucked it four times already and that only 3 pokemon really benefit from it, but we gotta ban it anyway
>and then supposedly they may retest Dugtrio a-fucking-gain because they just really don't like the mole.

It's like they're beating around the bush for so long so that they can use Greninja for as long as humanly possible. fucking frogs, git outta my OU already, reeeeeeee!

so besides scolipede who else baton passes faste onto problem mons? like can't you just feint/sound move them when they try to protect/sub and stat boost?
why was everyone running BRAVEST BIRD, ufo plant, and lando-t a-ok in XY, but everyone running a spook (or even conversion porygon2 if you're feeling hipster) to stop baton pass is completely unreasonable
hell maybe be the crazy motherfucker who brings roar or dragontail and punts the baton passer out before they have a change to finish, just banning everything is such a boring fucking way to do things

>>32623177
Or whirlwind.
Those checks are certainly enough for me.

O-oh no the Scolipede has Baton Pass.

IF ONLY I HAD A FIRE OR A FLYING OR A PSYCHIC OR A ROCK TYPE ATTACK

OR ANYTHING FAST TO KILL IT BEFORE IT SKEDADDLES

OR A PURSUIT OR A ENTRY HAZARD OR A TRAPPING ABILITY TO DISCOURAGE SWITCHING

IF ONLY I HAD A STAT REDUCTION MOVE

I guess I have no choice but to ban to ban the move entirely

>>32623117
Why don't you just ask them? I don't know the reasoning behind it beyond it fucking over balance, HO, and stall.

>>32623244
Name 5 things that outspeed Scolipede and OHKO when it's at +1 speed. Actually, scratch that, make it +2 because it can protect after you switch in your check.

>>32623256
>anything used feint
>scolipede fucking died
Easy.

>>32623177
>like can't you just feint/sound move them when they try to protect/sub and stat boost?

Feint attack is dogshit, goodluck doing any damage to anything and wasting a moveslot. As for sound moves, Mr. Mime with Soundproof is a thing on BP teams.

>who brings roar or dragontail and punts the baton passer out
Ingrain

>>32623239
>Or whirlwind
Ingrain

>>32623244
You do know that Scolipede isn't the only Baton Passer that exists.

>>32623284
Fuck I didn't mean to type feint attack, only feint.

>>32623284
Clefable Baton Passed a fuckton of stats to a ferrothorn!
Whatever the fuck mom uses Whirlwind/Roar
That shit is super effective! Before and Ingrain!

>>32623284
>ingrain
whirlwinding the baton passer before they baton pass, not the baton passee
who knows both ingrain and baton pass that you couldn't murder the fuck out of while they set up ingrain and stat boosts over like 5 turns

>>32623244
Or just use something like scizor, banded arcanine, azumarril or dragonite and priority hit the fuck out of it

>>32623310
>>32623328

Magic Bounce Espeon.

Ingrain is also one of the first things set up on BP teams, so almost no one is going to even begin setting up without an ingrain.

>>32623256
Not that guy but after Scolipede sets up you can predict the switch easly and react. Almost never lost against that strategy.

>>32622005

For all of the low ladder shitters who have NEVER played against a GOOD baton pass team. Watch this video. Then make your arguments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUGpxptC9RQ&t

This is the best video on the subject. And if you don't agree with it, go back to suck verlisify's dick.

>>32622404
>it's another "person who doesn't understand why Baton Pass is unhealthy for 6v6 singles" makes a thread mocking the ban of Baton Pass in 6v6 singles episode
Thread should have ended there

>>32623359
What, how many Pokemon have batton pass in your team?

>>32622403
Exactly

>>32622404
Well, what's your actual rank then?

>>32622740
>2017
>complaining about stealth rocks

>>32623244
NONE OF THIS WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF TALONFLAME DIDNT GET GUTTED!

>>32623417
This desu

>tfw I used to play Shedinja with battin pass, that way I would batton pass to predict a switch and then trap with dugtrio, then switch back to shedinja and so on. ;-; I guess minorities dont count

>>32623395
Blunder hardly explained anything, he just read the page and basically posted this for the ad revenue.

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Singles 6v6 is a shit meta to begin with.

Has Verlisify shit out a video yet?

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>>32623476
>he fell for the VGC meme

>>32623476
>I don't like or even play this meta but I'm going to complain anyways
Why do people do this?

>>32623107
No, and they don't plan to. The Greninja suspect is coming again.

why wasn't this ever an issue before? is it just because baton pass abusers counter the popular OU mons now and they can't adapt?

>>32623537
>why wasn't this ever an issue before?
But it was. Where you not around for XY where it was even worse?

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>>32623537
>why wasn't this ever an issue before?
I swear most of the people complaining about this ban have never played a game of OU in their lives.

rip my subpass regenerator mienshao

>>32623473
Agreed. It's just preaching to the converted and wasn't in depth enough to sway the uninformed. Statements like "there is nothing the opponent could do" isn't helpful. You have to explain how based on team composition an otherwise viable team had no possible recourse for BP.

>>32622107
>>32622258

kill yourselves autistic smogon shills

>>32623556
>>32623582
>didn't ban baton pass
>people still played the game just fine for several years
>suddenly SM
>DING DONG BANNU

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>>32622005
Wait a second are you serious
Baton Pass sets are the best
I haven't played competitive Pokémon since before Gen 7's release just out of losing interest but you can't be serious, what the hell would've made them do this?

>>32623634
>shit changes from one gen to the other
HOLY FUCKING DOG SHIT STOP THE MOTHERFUCKING PRESSES SON

>>32623639
a couple new mons are good at abusing it so instead of dealing with them smogon is pretending baton pass has always been unbeatable and literally the worst thing for the meta please go back to stalling

>>32623641
so it was a big problem and, I quote, "even worse" but didn't need to be banned, but two mons who probably should be in ubers anyway change everything?

>>32623659
Necrozma and Magearna aren't broken by themselves. Necrozma is hot garbage in fact without those multiple boosts.

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>>32623653
I've always said Smogon is a lesser evil compared to VGC, and that even when they make really fucking stupid bans they're still better than having almost nothing banned and shit like Evasion being commonplace, but this shit just makes my head hurt.

>>32623653
>pretending baton pass has always been unbeatable

If this was true they would've extended the ban to previous gens.

>>32623659
Necrozma is NU.

>>32623672
so
>ban one or two mons that are shit without the move but broken with it
or
>ban the move killing a bunch of innocent builds in the process
>>32623687
they're actually crying about that, they want it banned in oras and xy now

>>32622404
One Smogon Shekel has been deposited on your Smogon Forum Account.

But in case you are just that hilariously naive and bad at Pokemon I suggest you to get at least past 1100 before even posting in this thread.

>>32623697
Those are only two of the most used recipients in BP teams. Other ones include Mega Mawile, Tapu Bulu, Mega Hera, Espeon, Celesteela, Xurkitree, Manaphy... Do you really want to go through testing all of those fucking things just because of Baton Pass? It's like not banning Drizzle in Gen 5 because muh rain

>every team needs hazards or get sweeped by bravest talonflame
>this is fine
>every team needs haze or get sweeped by scolipede's harem
>DELET
and what happened to trick room? why not throw that fucker up when you know fastbug is gonna baton and boom, he just shot his team in the dick

>>32623717
wasn't mawile uber in XY? why did they have a fucking stroke and move it back to ou with that hueg power anyway?
and nothing there sounds uncounterable, bouncy cat and water blob are rather annoying though I'll give you that much
I'm sure there were plenty of arguments like that for the drizzle ban you don't like too
Now I can't use wishpass because some gimmick strat spooked smogon OUtists, wishpass isn't even that good I just liked it

>>32623045
>garchomp
>magnezone
>tapu koku
>a-marowak
>y-charizard
>t-landorus
check out my original ou team, donut steel

>>32623133
is there a geninja pepe? one that rees and is smug? id really like that

>>32623767
>wasn't mawile uber in XY? why did they have a fucking stroke and move it back to ou with that hueg power anyway?
Because it's a different meta. Especially with Tapu Lele being everywhere, it can't spam Sucker Punch as freely as it can anymore.

>>32623405
All of them.That's why it's called a BP team.

>>32623724
>smogon
>smart enough to think about the move that makes fast not fast
really makes you think

If you faggots don't like smogon you could always not play with their rulesets

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>>32623417
truly the hero we didn't deserve, too precious for this meta

>>32623954
/thread

>>32623724
I don't even play pokemon anymore or read any of the justification, but I think the obvious answer is that stealth rock actually does more than fuck up talonflame, it's generically useful.

Comparatively, you need to really invest your team into countering scolipede and basically only scolipede. When are you going to use bp counters outside of stopping bp?

>>32623954
this statement is almost as retarded as the people who bitch about smogon without knowing what they're talking about
I play on showdown most of the times that doesn't mean i have blindly agree with everything smogon does or says

>abiding by Smogon rules in 2017

>>32624042
You realize 95% of the people who bitch about smogon don't even play competitive right?

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>>32623724
>>every team needs hazards or get sweeped by bravest talonflame
Stop this Talonflame meme. Talonflame is completely overrated and only sweeped low ladder shits for being shit at the game.

smogon used to make competent decisions prior to gen 5. Ever since the baton pass team ban in gen 5 it's been downhill with stupid shit like swagger ban in gen 6 or now this. What happened?

>copypaste ladder teams weren't prepared for BP in the Megagross suspect
>fuck seeing if the meta can adapt ban the move entirely without any input from the community
Yeah let's fuck over Celebi, Shedinja, Pyukumuku and Espeon by removing an important pivot tech because ladderfags got asshurt.

>>32624322
Baton Pass is nowhere near prevalent a pivot technique as U-Turn and Volt Switch. Also all of those mons are ass.

>>32624331
They're niche pivots and now you can't use them. BP Shedinja was an important part of an infamous stall team. It's clearly limiting to team building and stomping potential.

>>32624339
Accounting for BP teams was far more limiting than having to work around a minor restriction in team building. I thank my lucky stars I don't have to use another goddamn Haze Fini on every fucking team I make regardless of the build

>>32624363
How was it more limiting? Haze is a common move on Fini and Toxapex and accomplishes more than stopping BP. Roar and Whirlwind are common as well and do more than just stop BP. Offense has plenty of priority users to select from that can deal with Scolipede before it passes. There's not a single playstyle that is limited by accounting for BP.

>>32624443
So many people that don't play ou that think haze stops bp it's adorable. First of all mew gets taunt so it can stop haze and pass stats. Scolipede is a poison type and they run poison jab. Your not going to be able to get a haze off with fini because it's going to die. Toxapex give scolipede a free sub (Toxapex Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scolipede: 70-84 (21.6 - 25.9%) so yeah while it does stop scolipede from passing a sub it doesn't change the fact the your opponent is going to be able to pass a sub to Xuritree get a free tail glow. The only decent haze user against baton pass is Mantine. Baton pass team usually carry espeon so you can't just phaze them out.

>>32624117
>Thinking swagger was actually a balanced move
Please swagger was so broken that even Gamefreak acknowledge it when they nerfed it in gen 7

>>32624600
Mew is irrelevant and pass Scolipede runs max atk and speed while carrying Megahorn not Poison Jab. It relies on Xurkitree or Manaphy to remove Fini.

>Your not going to be able to get a haze off with fini because it's going to die.
Only if you send it in on the turn or after Scolipede passes. No BP user is going to pass off +1 speed, so you have ample opportunity to send Toxapex or Fini in. The goal of your haze user against a BP team isn't to beat Scolipede, but to eliminate the speed boosts.
>The only decent haze user against baton pass is Mantine.
Mantine is irrelevant in OU.
>Baton pass team usually carry espeon so you can't just phaze them out.
Espeon is also irrelevant since it has nothing to pass it defense anymore. The only thing Espeon is useful against is stall and only once unaware Clefable is gone.

Smogon is a joke, it always has been a joke. I'm shocked people still actively play there outside of testing teams before breeding them on cart.

>>32622005
They actually did it? Fuck!

>>32622005

I'm happy it's gone, now beating 1200 subshitters will last less than 5 minutes.

Because if you got beaten by a Baton Pass team, you are in the 1200 club. There are Taunt, Haze, Unaware users in OU.

>>32622404
Oh, I'm mocking them for a lot more than that.

Like their choice of format, and being fuckheads I have literally never had a positive interaction with.

>>32624673

This entire post is just hilariously uninformed but the crown jewel, the bit that really confirms for me that you have absolutely zero clue what you're talking about, is when you think unaware clef is an answer to Espeon.

+2 speed +2 spatk +2 spdef Espeon gives Stored Power a BP of 140. One more Calm Mind and that jumps up to 180. You think about that for a couple minutes and then you ask yourself, really honestly, whether you think unaware is still a viable answer to Baton Pass.

>>32624743
>unaware stops speed passing
you are the 1200 shitter

It sucks too because i used to have a NU team with a floatzel with bulk up and baton pass. It wasn't a baton pass team, but i figured it'd be nice to get a buff up while it was out on the field and then pass it to give a little bit of physical defense to a frailer pokemon like gardevoir. (this was back in gen 5)

>>32625125
When did they change it so you can pass speed and other boosts again?

>>32625226

>Scolipede gives Espeon +2 speed
>Espeon calm minds twice because you can't roar it out and you assume unaware actually does anything for you

Please continue being retarded for my amusement; I love moments like these where people who think they're just so clever faceplant under the weight of their own idiocy.

>>32622435
>Whirlwind
>Roar
>Taunt
>Oblivious
etc

>>32624322
celebi can still go physical with swords dance and special with nasty plot nigga what do you mean

>>32625338

>Espeon
>Espeon
>Espeon
>Espeon (you meant Unaware but the answer is the same)
etc

>>32625409
but what if, and get this, they don't always pass to espeon

>>32622931
Scolipede, Stored Power, Magic Bounce, Geomancy etc. didn't exist back then and people were forced to run Ingrain Smeargle to not get their chain broken, of course it was shit

I wonder how the Nips react to all of this whining from a supposed authority on the game?

>>32625409
>Clear Smog

>>32625409
you still have clear smog, haze, dragon tail and mold breaker?

>something something Ingrain Smeargle
>something something Perish Song
>something something le Mr. Mime meme
>something something retard faggot cuck
>something something something...

>>32623417
I miss him

>>32626004
The nips are too busy playing the only metas that matter, their competitive scene is based

>>32626151
>him

>Still caring this much about a fanfic meta

>>32622005
Someone's mad they can't pull any Ninjask bullshit anymore.

>>32623494
>No legendaries
>Tapu and UB are still in it
I dont fucking care what Pokémon lore says, they are legendaries

>>32624673
>The only thing Espeon is useful against is stall and only once unaware Clefable is gone.

You don't even know how Stored Power works. If Scolipede passes max speed and Espeon gets off one Calm Mind, Stored Power is up to 180 base power. That's a clean 2HKO on Unaware Clef, doing 61% minimum.

>>32623623
Hope you get cancer vgcuck

>>32622756
Being obvious and being easy to stop are two separate things. It's a bit similar to Stealth rocks. Even if you can viably remove them at any point, you're giving up momentum to do so.

Unlike stealth rocks, though, it's much easier for baton pass users to counterplay your attempts to stop them for reasons such as: Taunt doesn't go through protect, lacking priority options to stop passing, Espeon as a common (basically mandatory) team staple with all the fun of magic bounce, and Stored Power muscling through anything that stops BP teams "on paper."

Even then, it means forcing a devoted counter on your team just to stop it, because there's no way to just slap a move or two on your team, and any devoted counters will be obvious and susceptible to counter play.

>>32623476
Ou is the lesser evil. I mean, nowadays every meta is shit since the game itself is bullcrap, but at least OU is still the best one (and overall, while being shit now, it used to be good, other metas were always shit to begin with)

>>32623244
>IF ONLY I HAD A STAT REDUCTION MOVE
Stopped reading there

>>32623717
Drizzle wasn't banned in bw...

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>all these smogon sheep incapable of independent thought who do whatever their cult masters tell them to

>>32624115
and what does that have to do with my post?

>>32623476
This. Even paschirisu can shine in doubles

>>32625168
Legend of PU right here

>>32623359
Why not just ban stored power?

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>>32626768
Losing Scolipede was bad enough. Losing my other bro here would be fucking insane.

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>>32626712
>mfw everyone falls back on that when they realise just how unconvincing their arguments are
Don't blame smogon because you can't defend your shitty opinions

>>32622931
Things change anon. Every generation introduces new pokes, moves and abilities (and their nerfs) that shake the old metagame. That's the reason why old OU stars like Milotic or Infernape can't catch up, why veterans like Gengar and Starmie drop, why weather wars are no longer a thing, why Talonflame is now a niche pick at best, why Zygarde is currently near S-rank material and why M-Metagross is broken in gen 7 and Hoopa-U somehow isn't.

>>32626591
said the smogon cancer. hope you get aids faggot

>>32626865
Smogon have gone back and changed baton pass (and other things iirc) in previous gens too even though those metas don't change. Their new playerbase is just full of babies, that's what happens when you bring up a community with such a ban happy mindset, any kind of adversary can be removed with a rule change

does haze bypass sub?

>>32625125
Is there really any need to be a condescending faggot? It's ironic that you call me misinformed while trying to frame haze as something only useful against BP on a niche mon.

It needs max sp atk EV invest, which BPfags don't do, to 2hko Clefable in that scenario, which won't happen since any stallfag worth his salt won't let Scolipede get off a sub.

>>32626967
Yeah.
But their argument is that very few good mons can run Haze, the same argument that can be applied to gen 4/5 Rapid Spin yet they never banned rocks.

>>32627615

the situations are absolutely incomparable. this post is a complete non-sequitur

>>32627769
Kys

>>32625949
>BP is balanced because people don't use the best BPmon
woah...

>>32627769

He's right. The problem is that there isn't a progressive view of viability. If bp wasn't banned then it's counters become more viable. Is it over centralizing? I don't think so. But it would cause change

>>32626887
Jokes on you, I'm virgin

>>32626865
>why veterans like Gengar and Starmie drop
It's looking more and more like Gengar's going to bounce back up to OU once a few more of the cancerous mons gets the banhammer, similar to how Starmie went back to OU last gen after the Greninja ban.

>>32626033
>clear smog
everything that learns it just flat out dies against espeon
>haze
virtually everything that learns it hates espeon
>dragon tail
substitute
>mold breaker
name something that can properly abuse mold breaker to stop a bp chain, that ability is not common

issue with BP is, even if it's not impossible to stop, the number of pokemon that can actually successfully stop it is so incredibly limited it would centralize the metagame way to much

>>32627883
Gengar had OU usage in the March usage stats actually.
It's extremely likely it will rise one the May stats get released.

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>>32623785
You want the reeee in the same image? Might need to make some OC famlia.

>>32627893

What counts as over centralization?

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>>32623133

>>32627909
every team needs 2 of 3 pokemon just to have a chance at stopping full BP teams

>>32622005
Then don't follow Smogon rules

Unless you are retarded enough to complain about Smogon and still battle in tournaments using their rules?

>>32627914

Could this not be said of any strategy? You need counters to defeat it?

They might as well ban trick room at this point and any other move that opens up new avenues for strategy

At least you can still use it in the lower tiers I guess

>>32627922
but other strategies generally speaking have a lot more potential counters
in addition a counter BP 'mon is generally dead weight against non-BP teams since they cannot fulfill multiple purposes while generally speaking pokemon designed to stop other strategies than BP tend to have more functionality

>>32622005
>caring about smogon rules
>when you can simply not use them and stop playing on smogon

>>32627931
it's not that baton pass is banned because it opens up a new strategy
it's banned because it invalidates all other strategies

>>32627947

Are baton pass counters truly not multi purpose? How so?

>>32627959

What are the current popular ou strategies without baton pass?

>>32627965
counter-bp moves like clear smog and haze have a terrible distribution and in addition to that are not particularly useful against non-bp teams

compare their distribution to something like rapid spin

in addition to this defeating a baton bass team (when piloted by someone competent) requires a dedicated counter at every stage of the game while with entry hazards there is a point in the game where you can simply start ignoring them so sacrificing your spinner is not an impossible option

>>32627979

This is more or less exactly what you said in your previous post with no further elaboration

>>32622005
This is a stupid decision from the viewpoint of "was this actually uncompetitive enough to warrant a ban", but everybody should be pretty happy it's gone.
Baton pass teams, broken or not, uncompetitive or not, are fucking gay. It's not interesting or fun to play against, it's not interesting or fun to use, it's so formulaic it makes hard stall look exciting. The only reason anybody ever used it was for quick free points.

Ultimately this is making the ladder more fun to play so regardless of whether it's logically justified I think it's good.

>>32627995
the limited distribution of those moves means quite simply that you are going to have to use those moves on 'mons that are suboptimal for the task, so you need to give them unorthodox natures and EV spreads just to be able to carry out their purpose

unfortunately this gimps them in everything that's not related to stopping BP

>>32628010

Hmm like which mons?

>>32622005
I only like this because it indirectly ruins Shedinja stall.

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>>32628007
>ban it because I don't like it

>>32628022
>even though I hate it I want to keep playing against it
your life must be so full of joy anon

>>32627844

you're missing the point. you don't have "progressive viability" with baton pass because every additional resource you devote to stopping it is basically useless against all other playstyles, so you get a convergence towards "baton pass vs anti baton pass" on the ladder and no other strategies even compete. that's fundamentally why baton pass got removed, is because it promotes shitty gameplay.

you and people like you aren't wrong, per se, but ultimately you miss the forest for the trees

>>32628022
>play game for fun
>strategy commonly used in game is not fun to play against
>game isn't fun anymore

it's not rocket science

>>32628205
Roar, haze and priority aren't additional resources you devote to stopping it. This isn't like dredging up Arcanine as a hard counter to Mega Mawile and pretending it wasn't broken in gen 6 OU.

>>32628017
Not that guy but consider Mold Breaker M-Gyarados. Not only is it a good pokemon in OU in general, it had a niche against BP in that it's one of the few (if only) Mold Breaker Dark type with Taunt. With this move and Ability it's one of the only pokemon that can get off a successful Taunt on a BP Espeon and not have it bounced back.

Ok so now your team packs one of the best BP stoppers in the game. You click find a battle. Let's say the first team you run into is a BP team. If the opponent leads Scoli you're facing down a faster pokemon that potentially packs Megahorn to take advantage of M-Gyarados Dark typing. From Turn 1 you're facing 50/50s: whether to Dragon Dance to try to keep pace with the Speed boosts, whether to Taunt immediately on a mon that runs Protect and Sub, and uses one of the moves Turn 1 90% of the time. If you DD and he Subs, he can Protect next turn for +2 Speed and Taunt immunity. Now what? If you wanna go for another Taunt anticipating the Calm Mind Espeon switch, good luck to you. You have to predict right at every turn because they could also be packing mons like Boltbeam Magearna or Tapu Bulu who walls M-Gyarados.

So you can see even when you bring one of the most viable BP checks, you'll still have to predict correctly every time for the first 3 or 4 turns and even if you predict correctly every time there are still ways to get around M-Dos.

Now consider the fact that when you hit that find a battle button you can also run into any manner of team from HO to full stall. Not that a Taunt M-Gyarados is entirely useless against other team archetypes, but it is losing coverage or Substitute to run that move, specifically for one team archetype.

Talonflame got nerfed/sees no usage and M-Pinsir needs to predict perfectly (notice a pattern?) to be able to KO a 100% HP Scolipede.

>>32628513
what fucking idiot would pass to espeon on gyarados? it's not even a counter to BP let alone a niche one.

>>32622005
I was going to respond but I just realised I hate all of you.

>>32628570
Hey Zarel stop shitposting in a vietnamese-origami-shadow-puppetery website and learn to code
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-583328425

>>32628570
Hi Zarel please work on usage stats by the next year or so thanks

>>32628021
It doesn't

>>32626906
Did you read the post? They literally said they are leaving old gens alone since BP not broken in them

>>32628570
zarel please ban the showderp room they doxxed an innocent 17 year old boy due to his political views

>>32628821
story time?

>>32624673
You are so out of touch with the meta.
>Mew is irrelevant and pass Scolipede runs max atk and speed while carrying Megahorn not Poison Jab. It relies on Xurkitree or Manaphy to remove Fini.
Here Ben gay mew pass team http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sm-ou-bazaar.3587317/page-15. Mew pass was thing it just wasn't as popular on the ladder since it wasn't as brainless as Scolipede pass. Go to the damage calc and look at Scolipede standard ou usage set and you'll see poison jab. Scolipede doesn't always run max attack. Sometimes they ran max hp for the exact reason I mentioned.
>Scolipede passes. No BP user is going to pass off +1 speed, so you have ample opportunity to send Toxapex or Fini in. The goal of your haze user against a BP team isn't to beat Scolipede, but to eliminate the speed boosts.
Your giving Scolipede a free sub to pass to Xurkitree to give ita free tail glow. BP team is still in a winning situation.
>Mantine is irrelevant in OU
Mantine is B rank on the viability ranking and has been used in tournament play thanks to it's ability to wall Charizard Y, Keldeo, Greninja, and Volcarona. Mantine far from irrelevant.

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>>32628845
Underage user was an annoying piece of shit and got banned because everyone wanted him gone. He was a massive sperg, pic related. People started posting shit that was either publicly available or shit he himself linked then accused people of doxxing while threatening to call the police. All while he was sperging out in the showderp thread and wrote this: https://pastebin.com/mQCckWZm

>>32628547
>what fucking idiot would pass to espeon on gyarados? it's not even a counter to BP let alone a niche one.

Addressed here:
>If you wanna go for another Taunt anticipating the Calm Mind Espeon switch, good luck to you. You have to predict right at every turn because they could also be packing mons like Boltbeam Magearna or Tapu Bulu who walls M-Gyarados.

And it is a niche BP counter. Mold Breaker Taunt stops Espeon from boosting more than once and the Dark typing gives it immunity to Stored Power. In tandem with Dragon Dance it can outspeed other recipients (and threats) like Magearna, Tapu Bulu, and Xurkitree. I guess the ideal anti BP set would be Dragon Dance/Taunt/Waterfall/Ice Fang.

>>32628983
That moveset means it has problems dealing with Magearna.

>>32628957
>accuse me of being out of touch with the meta
>posts a mew gimmick team that saw little usage for a reason then sources most scolipedes running poison jab on the fucking damage calculator
According to sweepercalc Scolipede runs Megahorn more often.

>>32629057
exactly the problem with counter-BP 'mons
the very few that exist are generally speaking already dealing with 4 moveslot syndrome
take one away for BP stopping and you're left with a highly sub-optimal moveset

that's not zarel btw

http://pokemonshowdown.com/files/zarel.txt

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>>32629275
You don't say.

>>32629291
that fake trip was used many times in the past, so people might start believing it

>>32629092
>>32629092
Mew baton pass was brought up in disscussion thread for one of the reason they just can't ban Scolipede to solve the problem. There team was used several time in tour play and had great success. Just because your ignorant ass has never seen it doesn't mean it wasn't an issue. Sweeper calc is an out of date piece of shit which doesn't even work properly. Regular calc is actually pulling straight from the usage stats.

>no one will call them out on it
Well, no one anybody wants to listen to, anyway.

>>32623133
Protean Greninja is actually okay, but Battle Bond is just too good for OU.

>>32628029
I may not agree with your battle style but I'll defend to the death your right to play it.

>>32630051
t. Pokevoltaire

>Wahh I let some kid baton pass after a protect p-please ban

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>>32629516
>/vp/ thought at first Ash-Greninja will be shit and wothlress compared to protean
>A+ tier, always on the verge of S

it's like GF say themselves "sorry about the league"

When I first saw the news on Pokémon Showdown I burst out laughing so hard I think my mother thought I was dying in the car

>>32629516
Both are extremely good, but I think the issue is that, unless opp doesn't make it regular (meaning not shiny) male Greninja, you'll only know exactly what kind of Greninja you're dealing with after it makes a move. And, depending on which ability, you won't know its movepool (Protean) or its potential to break through walls (Specs, Z-Crystal, Life Orb, and I wouldn't be surprised if some ran Scarf too to fuck over +1 Volc and other scarfers)

>>32622523
>>32623482

>>32622404
>M-muh compelling arguments
As to why YOU lose?
>Only arguments I got back were "ur low ladder XD"
So how most smogon defenders argue?

Here's the extra (You)

>>32622523
>>32623482
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM2uQB078mQ

>>32630154
Move tutors will break Ash-Greninja, honestly.
he will be able to 2shot Fini (same for protean) which is everywhere and get his transformation.

>>32628263
Then just ban stall too!

>>32624743
>he thinks Unaware stops 180 BP Stored Power
what a maroon.

>>32623264
This isn't a YLYL thread but I lost regardless.

Fuck there goes my Regigigas Team

Regigigas is so fucking fun but now I can't even get a setup on him

>>32628981
Well deserved