Can someone explain what the point of Gligar in Gen 2 was? >Only

Was playing through Firered and discovered that Scyther's "best move" was Wing Attack

Literally half of Gen 2

Rhyhorn. No Rock-type moves by level-up until Rock Blast in gen III.

>>32515045
>Nidoking doesn't learn Earthquake or even Magnitude
>Poison Sting is his best Poison move
Gen 1 had shit movepools

>>32515053

Sludge was the strongest Poison move until Gen 2. Made Muk less good than it could have been. But my experience with Gen 1 Muk ingame was that it had problems but was far from completely useless.

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>>32515036
Carnivine is pretty pointless. You remember Carnivine right?
>One of very very few types to actually resist ground
>Has levitate anyway
>Slow
>Frail
>Mixed attacker
>Has absolute ass for a movepool in both offences
>Doesn't get a good STAB move until level 47 in gen 4
>Doesn't get a move over 60 base power until level 37
>Doesn't get any status moves to make it worthwhile for other purposes

I remember losing my shit when I found out Seviper couldn't learn Cut.

>>32515093
Grassmon in general just get fucked over and over by having no moves. Check this shit
>http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Bellsprout_(Pok%C3%A9mon)/Generation_III_learnset#By_leveling_up

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>>32515093
>venus fly trap
>weak to bug

>>32515036
Pinsir, gyarados, dragonite, chikorita
Och wait, pinsir and gyarados are still useless crap...

>>32515036
Gliscor really saved this little fella.

>>32515104
What does Gliscor have to do with Lil Fella?

>>32515053
>Gen 1 had shit movepools
>>32515069
>Sludge was the strongest Poison move until Gen 2

Lick with 20 base power was the only ghost STAB move in gen 1, right?
And I think dragon didn't have any STAB moves at all? Dragon rage does fixed damage, so it's unaffected by the typing of the user.
>Gen 1 movepools

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>>32515103
>Implying

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Tropius and Castform come to mind, just from being in the same area. I'm not even sure if either has much use nowadays.

>see Tropius
>ah hell yeah, a flying grass dinosaur, he'll be great
>see his stats
>still hold onto the foolish hope he'll get a buff via an evolution or something

>>32515093
This kills me. Why do they make a Pokekon with such a cool design so weak? At least the others in this thread got better eventually.

>>32515036
>before B2W2, the only Ground-type move that Sandshrew line learned on its own was Sand Tomb (and Sand-Attack but that doesn't count)

>>32515135
I was obsessed with Tropius five years ago. I didn't have gen 5 at the time so I kept playing HG. Bred Tropius, gave it DDance, wrecked shit in BF. My first dedicated bred bro.

At least Gligar's better than it's Silver counterpart. Being Delibird is suffering.

>>32515141
>cool
Anon get some taste.

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>>32515036
No rockslide, no stab. One day it will get head smash and brave bird!

>>32515242
>click Hone Claws
>sweep with Head Smash
great idea m8

>>32515103
Gyarados was great in RB though, specially if you buy that early game Magikarp and teach it bubblebeam after Mysty's gym.

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>>32515036
>Catch rate of 45
>Very rare up until Victory Road
>Elite 4 Bruno uses TWO (2) of them
>Worse stats than Geodude
>Best level up move is Rock Throw with 65 accuracy
>Can learn Rock Slide and Earthquake but the TMs would be utterly wasted on it
What a complete and utter letdown

>>32515430
>tfw Onix got two evolutions and it's still shit

>>32515430
I've always liked that onix is faster than steelix. Needs a prevo that's even faster than it that's fire/ground.

>>32515119
Cool, to bad they both have shitty movepools which are hard to fix even with TM's

>>32515119
>>32515510
>YWN have a special sweeping Mega Gyarados
Such a missed opportunity. Gyarados learns every special attack under the sun but hasn't been able to use them effectively since Gen 1

>>32515483
A prevo won't fix that base 35 HP and 45 Attack
>Onix has the same Atk stat as Pidgey

>>32515093
I leveled the fuck out of one using Sweet Scent for horde EV training and I don't recall it ever being "good". Shame really. It started to grow on me.

>>32515046
this, and Gen 2 is my favorite

>>32515048
Voltorb/Electrode didn't learn any electric moves by level up either.

>>32515045
*aerial ace

Can't miss

>>32515093
I wish we could all forget that this pokemon existed

>>32515510
Aren you seriously saying current Gyarados is bad? Are you for real?

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>playing Crystal as a kid
>think spiders are scary but cool
>"oh shit, a spider pokemon!"
>evolve the cute thing to Ariados
>slow
>frail
>only move it learns on its own that's above 20 power is a special type move at lvl63

The first spider pokemon, and to this day is still shit. God dammit.

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>>32515430
Even giving it an evolution didn't help, Steelix is still only mediocre at best.

>caring about pokemon based on stats and move pools and not design
>laughingelfman.jpg

>>32515644
Some of us enjoy competetive, ya know?

>>32515631
At least you could grab the Sludge Bomb TM near Lake of Rage, before the the Physical/Special split all poison moves were physical, so Ariados could get a good use of it.

Before Sludge Bomb your best bets were things like Night Shade and Dig, though.

>>32515650
And some of us don't have autism

>>32515656
Sadly you are not among them

>>32515665
Well I browse here so yeah

>>32515036
Gen 2 was a prototype for gen 4

>>32515430
Onix has always been the biggest jokemon of them all, and it's all because it exists to teach new players that there's more than one kind of defense.

>no attack
>no hp
>no special
>evolves and at least gets a better type, but still dies to anything special
>one of the most forgettable megas
>Joltik, literally the smallest pokemon in the game, has more base attack

I can't think of a worse Rock type in the game, competitive wise

>>32515631
>tfw no real spider pokemon

guess GF doesn't like to do 8 legs

>>32515430
>literally weaker than Tangela

Onix was a mistake.

Fucking Sneasel. In both gens 2 and 3 he's utter shit. I always wanted to use him in Colosseum because of his design, but he's just such shit.

>>32515103
Gyarados was fine in Gen I because it had a then-impressive base 100 Special. The Gen II split fucked it over. Gen III redeemed it with Dragon Dance, Gen IV saved it further with the Physical/Special split, Gen VI gave it a decent Mega, and Gen VII gave it Moxie Supersonic Skystrike memes. Gyarados is more than fine. Mega Pinsir is also more than fine.
Meanwhile Dragonite is once again outclassed by Salamence Moxie Z-Fly memes strike again and Chikorita has never not been a useless pear of shit.
>>32515242
And on that day, Mega Aerodactyl will become the very first Rock-type in Ubers. Can't wait.

>>32515036
probably like half up to gen 4 because of how physical and special worked

>>32516861
Was any pokemon buffed by gen 4's split more than Sneasel?

>no longer has to use it's base 35 attack for STAB
>Night Slash exists now
>gets an even faster evolution and becomes one of the very few good ice types

>>32516892
Hitmonchan finally had access to coverage, and Gyarados wasn't xucked by being water type any more, but yeah Sneasel basically went from unusable to very usable.

>>32515430
>less attack stat than Oddish

>>32516876
Arceus-Rock

>>32516913
Oh that doesn't count and you know it.

Besides, every other type besides Rock has a non-Arceus 'mon in Ubers, at least until they find enough of an excuse to sent Mega Gengar to AG. I eagerly await Rock's turn at the table of the Gods.

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>favourite pokemon
>only really becomes good with a huge TM investment
>ends up being the most expensive mon on your team every time you want to use it

What's it's name, /vp/?

>it's a op was born in 2016 and only knows broken movesets episode

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>>32515430
>Onix was gimped and never un-fucked because it was used by Brock and they didn't want to overwhelm you with a Rhyhorn
>Steelix was gimped and never un-fucked because it was used by Jasmine and they didn't want to overwhelm you with too many Pokemon of this originally brand new type with a fuckload of resistances

>>32517134
>OP was born in 2016
>OP is posting on /vp/ at the ripe old age of one
Shit I wouldn't even hate, that's amazing.

>>32516822
what is galvantula?

I'd like to mention Kingler, a Pokémon that just can't seem to get a break.

*Water type in a generation with tons of other Water types, most of which have niches (Gyarados, Starmie, Tentacruel, Slowbro, etc)
*Shit Special, so can't run mixed sets like Gyarados, the other major physical Water type
*Got a STAB move that runs off of its weakest offensive stat
*Doesn't even learn anything other than Normal moves when leveling up, aside from Bubble and Crabhammer
*Its only coverage options are Ice Beam and Blizzard

To add insult to injury, they gave it Sheer Force but neglected to make its signature move work with it.

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>>32515036
>slow
>frail
>didnt get a good electric move to use it's decent attack
>it's movepool are 65 BP moves

>>32517175
galvantula has even less legs than spinarak

>>32517221
>crabhammer is level 57 or something like that, at least in gen 4
>cant get waterfall
>essentially has no STAB until you're midway through the E4/At Red

>>32516892
Gengar could finally use its STABs, but it already had a decent special movepool with the elemental punches.

Can someone explain me why the hell does in Gen 7 Gliscor only learn Sand Attack as only ground move without using TM (can only learn Earthquake anyways)?

>>32517397
Gengar was already good, Sneasel wasn't

>>32517403
The same reason Flygon only just now learns EQ naturally after all these years. GF just straight up forgets about shit for a long time. It's just like all the pokemon that learn a move through breeding, but can't learn said move through tm.

>>32516934
One day we'll get a Rock/Grass box legend, the best combination for both types, I think. until then we can only dream.

>>32515510
>I didn't play pvp during gen 6
Dude Gyarados didn't need the mega in doubles with that Intimidate fucking over physical attackers and it really didn't need any better moves because it could already sweep. Mega Gyarados was pretty decent too. Whereas Mega Pinsir was a fucking cannon with an Aerialite boosted STAB Return/Double Edge.

>>32515613
Well GF is trying its damnedest to make that happen

Parasect was a pokemon I tried to pick up in Soul Silver, just because I had always been a fan of zombie bug and figured Spore would make up for the low stats.

I had no idea it would also have to make up for its utter lack of movepool. No Physical grass moves until move tutors and X-scissors at like level 47. I taught it Bullet Seed just so I could have another move outside of scratch and it only started to even slightly put in work once it got Slash. Even then it was completely underwhelming.

Samething replaying X when I wanted to give Yanma to Yanmega a try, only to find out I would be relying on Quick attack until Ancient Power in its 30's.

Literally some pokemon are just designed not to be played in game.

>>32515550
And as fast as Decidueye

I know it's a crappy reasoning, but I think it's stats come from it basically being the first boss of Pokemon.

It's high defense plus bide was a way to show you that you couldn't really rely on tackle the entire game. If it's crap HP and attack are so you don't get overwhelmed

>>32515226
>not liking carnivine
Think you're the one who needs taste, carnivine is fucking great and of the best gen 4 pokemon.

>>32519309
Parasect only has a single use, catching other pokemon. It's good at doing that, however, especially because of Damp

>>32519425
And False Swipe

>>32519309
I used Yanmega in SoulSilver and I never found Yanma to be all that weak and I find it hard to believe that getting to Uproar is harder in a game with infinite TMs and a champion nearly 20 levels higher than in HGSS.

>>32515093
>>32515102
Carnivine's typing would make more sense in an Inverse Battle, if anything.

If some day came when Pokémon got two abilities at once, I'd give it a secondary ability that inverts weaknesses/resistances.

>>32519547
Soul Silver has you battling underlevelled gen 1and 2 Pokemon for most of the game, which for the most part are a lot weaker than newer Pokemon. Using something that doesn't learn STAB moves until after level 50 is quite a bit harder in newer games.

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This guy always felt underwhelming but there's nothing that stands out to me as being crisis-level bad

juice its stats by like 40? distribute 20 special attack into the defenses like the alolan form?

>>32515631
I used Ariados in Sun and it was about as useful as you could ever hope a monster with 90 base attack, mediocre defenses and shit speed to be. It has an actual movepool nowadays.

The real tragedy was trying to use Ledian as well in Sun. That thing has been in the waiting-for-buffs line since gen 2 and it still continues to be a strong contender for absolute worst fully evolved monster in the game, both competitively and in ingame usage. What a worthless PoS.

>>32519852
Ledian has the hardest fucking life in the vanilla games, but gets some decent love in the minigames like Contest and Pokeathlon. Thats one big reason as to why I miss the mingames because at least the shitmons were useful there.

>>32519852
They need to at least give Ledian like +40 in some offensive stat or something.

>>32519924
It's still better than Unown, but Ledian and Ariados need evolutions desperately.

persian. Absolutely mediocre stats.
Not useful for anything past Gen 1 slash spam

>>32520081
But it was good in its generation. It was just the game updating itself that fucked it over.

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Magcargo is the master of disaster. Not even an mega could salvage it.

>>32520127
Magcargo is my bro

>>32520127
>slugma has the lowest fire type stats
>sunkern has the lowest grass type stats

what was it with gen 2 and introducing pokemon with the lowest BST of a type, and then making their evo shit?

>>32519798
What the hell are you talking about? He kicks a lot of ass during a play through.
Probably meant to tear apart a lot of the bulky 'mons, except for grass and water types, obviously.

>>32520127
Needs a third stage evo then a mega on top

>>32520127
Watch this
>mega magcargo
>ability: simple
>-60 defence
>+50 speed
>+80 attack
>+30 special attack

>>32520197
Magcargo and Sunflora can work in-game but they need a lot of protecting. Gen IV should've given them an evo instead of some others that were already fine as is.

>>32520256
I don't think that'll fix its weaknesses.

>>32520286
weaknesses don't exist when you're rolling around at the speed of sound.

>find one (one) opportunity to hit shell smash
>win

>>32520295
>one (one)

>>32520295
>aqua jet

>>32520256
>>32520295
>take literally any hit from anything even remotely offensive on the setup turn
>die
>take literally any hit from anything with good priority after Shell Smashing
>explode
Also, +80 Attack? Why? Let it become Fire/Ground and go full Special, it has fuck all going for it physically. Leave its """"bulk"""" alone and pump that last 20 points into Special Attack, you won't miss it.
>+4 252+ SpA base 140 Magcargo Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 319-376 (49.6 - 58.5%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO

>>32515046
Spbp

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This thread reminds me.

Why is the majority of Alola's dex single stage pokemon?

>oricorio
>wishiwashi
>comfey
>oranguru
>passimian
>Pyukumuku
>minior
>komala
>turtonator
>togedemaru
>mimikyu
>bruxish
>drampa
>dhelmise
>ultra beasts and legends

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>strongest levelup move before 53 is non-STAB Thrash
>for most of the game you're stuck using Flame Charge via TM (50 BP)
>doesn't learn its own fucking signature move until the E4 move relearner

This thing was a travesty ingame.

>>32520603
>A-Marowak learns its signature move a level before Cubone evolves into it

Did they just enter the level in wrong?

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>>32515631
>>32515655
>>32516822
>>32519852
>gen 7 comes around
>they buff it's stats and give it a sig move

>the stat buff is negligable and the sig move isn't useful

Toxic Thread should be an entry hazard, that at least might make it useful as a sucide lead

>>32520631
Even then, in Gen 7, they made some moves that were learnable regardless of level of evolution.

>>32515633
At least it got a usable Mega Evolution. Not a GOOD one by any stretch, but usable.

>>32520843
It's mega is still effectively worse than sheer force life orb

>>32520631
seems like it was on purpose as they came out with two updates and they stiill haven't corrected the issue.

>>32520864
Considering Mega Steelix was banned from RU while regular Steelix sat in NU in Gen 6, no its not.

>>32517221
>he didn't use Amnesia/Swords Dance/Ice Beam/Body Slam Kingler in Stadium 1

>>32521732
>stadium

>>32515103
>bait this bad

>>32520127
Literally a shit tier octilerry
Give it thick skin or something

the same point your appendix serves

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Zebstrika is easily the most disappointing in Gen 5.

>Blitzle revealed early, immediately hype for some sweet Electric unicorn
>game comes out
>it's available early on, fuck yes
>catch it
>it dies to everything
>not really useful VS any Gym
>best stat is Atk, despite it's best moves being Special
>and yet movepool on both sides is incredibly lacking
>barely usable against Skyla or the Water nignog from bW2
>literally "it just gets bigger"

Fuck this stupid thing. Electric is my favorite type and the sheer disappointment caused by this thing makes it my least favorite Elec Mon by a far margin.

>>32516876
Fuck dragonite, salamence is badass. I'm glad the more aesthetic pokemon is better

>>32515053


Pokemon that evolve via evo stones don't learn moves after you evolve them.

They've recently changed that to like one move but it still remains.

>>32524106
Dragonite is cute. Salamence is just a butt-ugly faggot. Fuck Salamence it shouldn't exist. Metagross was always the cooler Gen 3 pseudo.

>>32524124
Funny thing is Nidoking learned Thrash by level up at 23. Nidoqueen learned Body Slam.

>>32524152
I agree metagross is cool, but we will have to disagree about the dragons. I want cool dragons, not fuccboi dragons. Dragonair is kind of like a beautiful pokemon but dragonite is just a bitch. At least I've got milotic as a pseudo dragon. Salamence isn't even 5' tall in the pokedex what a manlet lol

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>>32524016

>>32520127

An ability that makes it immune to water moves?

Cause he's so hot that the water dissolves or some shit.

>>32524178
>I want cool dragons
That's great, but Salamence isn't cool. It's just ugly with an stupid face, ridiculously stubby limbs and ugly tacked-on wings.

>>32524016
>Electric is my favorite type
I'm so sorry

>>32524016
>>32524179
>its like dragon type only shittier!

>>32524212
Not knowing Devilman

>>32524501
that's normal type.

Electric type is a type that's good on paper, but in practice, they all have low stats and no coverage.

>>32519425
It was also fun in Gen 4 Uber as a meme answer against Kyogre. Just like how Ariados was a fun meme answer to Darkrai and Deoxys

>>32515430
>TFW you realize Onix only has 45 Base Attack

>Ghost and Dragon didn't have STAB until gen 2
>Bug didn't have decent STAB until gen 4

>>32515633
And it has such a cool design too.
Steelix always looks like it's ready to fuck shit up with that huge shit eating grin but it always fails to do so.

Still liked using it in gen 2 though.

>>32524732
Ghost had STAB, but you wouldn't be doing anything with an effective 30BP attack.

Bug had fuckall unless your name was Heracross

>>32524194
Neat idea but GF loves water so they would never do that.

>>32524867
>what is Desolate Land
Also Magcargo has so many weaknesses both due to typing and otherwise that even Primal Groudon's signature ability wouldn't save it from the shit pile.

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>Gen 3
>Literally doesn't learn any non-meme special moves until 65
>Flying stab is awful on it
>Shadow ball is physical, leaving it with giga drain and fucking future sight as its only attacking moves until 65

>>32524732
Silver Wind

Also what the fuck was up with Ghost moves being Physical?

>>32525033
>Xatu
>gen 3

>>32525044
>phys/special split happens
>nearly all dark moves became physical when it was previously a special type

makes me think

>>32525053
Yes, I know you could get it in gen 2, but that was the gen I had the bad experience with it in. Though, now that I think about it, Natu was like level 7 in G/S/C, right? That's 58 fucking levels without a good special move and 28 levels without a normal damaging move besides peck.

>>32525065
>nearly all

it was ALL of the ones introduced in gen 2-3, which were Knock Off/Bite/Crunch/Feint Attack/Beat Up/maybe something i forgot

>>32525067
>7
More like 23

>>32525081
Really? I thought they were in the ruins of alph

>>32525086
They are but the patch of grass they're in is only accessible with Surf and Strength

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You haven't lived until you used shuckle in the main story of a game.

It's my favorite pikemon and I have beaten three games with it in my party since the beginning. Toxic, sandstorm, withdraw, and rest are effective againest anything not poison or steel.

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>>32525115
>TFW jasmine wipes my team except for shuckie and it somehow fucking demolishes her steelix after many withdraws and wraps

what a feeling

ITT: People who don't know how to play the fucking game

>>32525176
Then how do you play it, mr. know it all?

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>>32515102
>mfw Carnivine will never get a HA that will allow him to hit bug types for super effective or at least resist bug type moves.

>>32515036
>Only stand out stat was 105 Physical Defence, but all of it's weaknesses were Special Attackers

Skarmory also had great defense but its two weaknesses were fire and electric. This point has been made moot.

But yeah gligar sucked... like the huge majority of gen 2 pokemon.

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>>32515452
>two evolutions

>>32525365
I'm guessing he means mega Steelix.

>>32516892
>Was any pokemon buffed by gen 4's split more than
>Gengar
>Gyarados
>Hitmonchan
>Feraligatr
>Rapidash
>Flareon
>All the dragons
>Entei
>Breloom
>Metagross

>>32525397
The thing is many of those were already good. Sneasel was garbage, and then got far better

>>32525410
>Already good
I'll give you Gengar, Metagross and all the Dragons (Altaria need not apply). But the rest were all mediocre (Hitmonchan) to awful (Flareon).

>>32525449
Flareon's still pretty shit m8

>>32525495
>It has Flare Blitz now anon, how can it be bad?

>>32525495
I agree but it is significantly LESS shit than it use to be. You may not have been there Anon-kun, but I was... I remember Shadowball/Dig/Leer/Flamethrower in Gen 2...

>>32525532
Samefagging,

I was remembering gen 3, when it fucking learned Dig.. so it was even fucking worse in Gen 1-2.

>gen 1
>every pokemon has body slam

>>32525506
The people whining for Flareon to get Flare Blitz didn't understand what the fundamental problem of Flareon was, and Flare Blitz in no way helps said problem.
>>32525532
You have a point, Gen 2 was a special kind of hell.

>>32524016
something I notice playing BW2 is that a good portion of unova mons dont have good movepool

>>32515107
>not knowing you need Gliscor in party to evolve into the last stage

>>32525532
>Flamethrower
>Shadow Ball
>Body Slam
>Quick Attack
Flareon is filthy in-game (gen II).

>>32525345
Might as well get the Water Bubble treatment.
>all grass moves get 2.25 STAB instead of 1.5
>resists bug and grass moves hit them SE
There, now it has a niche over all other grass.