How did the Pokémon anime make such a big rebound in Japan?

>>32495297
Sexual Relief

>>32495297
Every series does well in the beginning and then plummets after a year or so

Not hard to rebound when your expectations hit rock bottom

>>32495297
>Curious George isn't above Naruto

Japs have shit taste

>>32495297

XY/XYZ was very unpopular in Japan, even BW was more popular than XY series

>>32495297
>no melodramatic shonen shit
>no degenerate shipping cringe
>good cast chemistry
>fun and interesting pokemon personalities
>expressive animation
/padt/ doesn't understand what the audience wants.

It kills me that One Piece and Super are up there when Toei does a terrible job with both anime. I guess kids don't notice or care but I literally can't into One Piece anime because of them.

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>>32495344
>not reading the one piece anime

Lillie and Litten have had more meaningful character development in just over 20 episodes than Serena did throughout the entirety of XYZ

>>32495372
Lillie has had no development. She got over her fear of touching pokemon which was beyond retarded in the first place. All the other SM characters are the same as they were in the first episode.

Serena took a long time to get going, but once she did she developed quite a bit character wise.

>>32495297
>Conan is still in the top ten
>not only that it's in second place
>in front of One Piece, Dragonball and Pokemon

This series literally hasn't advanced in over ten fucking years
Why do so many people still watch that shit

>>32495384
>Lillie has had no development. She got over her fear of touching pokemon which was beyond retarded in the first place.

She isn't completely over it yet, and it's literally stated in her episode that her mother is the cause of her phobia, which is obvious foreshadowing for later events

And it took Shitrena over 40 episodes to do anything of worth

>Detective Conan is still going on

Let that poor kid have his original body already.

>>32495386

I remember seeing some episodes of the English dub of 'Case Closed' on Adult Swim over a decade ago, and thinking it was shit. It really does stun me that that show is still going in Japan. Wasn't the protagonist a teenager that got turned into a kid or some crap; how's he still a kid?

>>32495386
>hasn't advanced in over ten fucking years
So exactly like Pokemon.

>>32495384
>Lillie has had no development
>talks about her development

>>32495412
Pokemon is moving a lightning speed compared to Conan.
Like, in the actual show it hasn't even been a full year since Conan became a kid yet. Which makes absolutely no sense since there are like a 1000 manga chapters already which each usually represent one case per day.

>>32495384

>Lillie's first focus episode reveals that her mother is the cause of her phobia
>Both of her focus episodes have her making steps towards conquering her phobia
>hasn't developed at all

Yeah no fuck off

>>32495419
>Like, in the actual show it hasn't even been a full year since Conan became a kid yet
So exactly like Pokemon.

>>32495430

Time does pass in the Pokemon anime, just that no one ages.

Ash has been travelling for well over a year, but due to the magic of animation, he is still 10 years old.

>>32495430

Bullshit, it's been over a year in Pokémon. Ash has been depicted as being clearly older than he was in episode one; Conan, not so much.

>>32495403
Now that you think about it, the unaging kid and Ash do have some similarity

>>32495451
>Ash has been depicted as being clearly older than he was in episode one
No he hasn't, they outright said in XY that he was still ten.

>Sazae-san has been going for over 7600 episodes
>Detective Conan has been going for over 856 episodes
>The Pokemon anime is currently on its 965th episode and is approaching its 1000th

>>32495398
Serena had a few eps at the start. More than any SM character in the first 25.

>>32495472
>No he hasn't, they outright said in XY that he was still ten.

That was in BW.

But regardless of the fact that Ash has been stated to still be 10 years old, the show has made clear references to the passage of time since Ash's journey began.

The characters may not age physically, but there's been a clear passage of time.

>>32495498

And as of next week (SM027), Lillie will have had three episodes focused on her which is the same amount Serena had at the same point in time

>>32495488

Japs like their stale, never-ending cartoons. How many American cartoons are still running and have going on for over fifteen years without pause? The Simpsons and...?

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>32495372
This is bait
>32495398
This is bait
>32495500
This is bait too

>>32495328
It was the final episode.

>>32495547

Family Guy, it started in 1999

>>32495547
South Park, Spongebob, I think American Dad and isn't Arthur also still airing?

>>32495547
South Park
Looney Tunes
Sponge Bob
etc

They started to pander to an even younger audience than before along with a lot more pedobait for the older audience. Lillie is pretty much pure pedobait.

>>32495593

>Lillie is pedobait
>When Lana and her sisters exist

>>32495602
Did I imply they aren't as well? But Lillie is literally non meme pedobait.

>>32495565

>without pause

SpongeBob immediately comes to mind though. Not sure if South Park is considered a "cartoon".

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>>32495611

Lillie is more general waifubait than pedobait.

She's an ojou-sama who lives alone in a huge-ass mansion with butlers and maids taking care of her while her mom is busy working and her brother is busy being an edgelord.

>>32495626
South Park is by every single definition a cartoon. They've been doing the animation in a Flash-like program since the second episode.

>>32495580

here is a list of all the longest running american shows

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest-running_United_States_television_series

>>32495430

>Conan's goal is to get his adult body back

>Ash's goal is to become a Pokemon Master, which means "best Pokemon Trainer in the world"

In the latter case, the world of Pokemon keeps getting bigger and bigger, so it makes sense that Ash hasn't and likely never will achieve his goal because it's a vague goal intentionally designed to keep the show running as long as necessary

Conan has a clear and tangible goal

Here's the ratings and ranking among other TV Tokyo anime for all SM episodes.

1+2 - 4.4 - 9th
3+4 - 3.8 - 8th
5 - 3.6 - 9th
6 - 3.9 - 9th
7 - 3.7 - 9th
8 - <3.5 - unranked
9 - 2.7 - 10th
10 - 3.9 - 9th
11 - 3.9 - 9th
12 - 3.9 - 10th
13 - <4.0 - unranked
14 - 3.9 - 9th
15 - <3.8 - unranked
16 - 3.7 - 10th
17 - 3.6 - 5th
18 - 3.7 - 10th
19 - 4.4 - 5th
20+21 - 4.2 - 7th
22 - 3.6 - 10th
23 - 3.8 - 8th

>>32495694
What about XY&Z?

>>32495297
Is a better series than XY in all ways, the script is more fluid like the god-tier animation and the TR the most popular characters of the show in japan, are the heart of this series with ash for first time since OS, good characters like Kiawe helps too. Also the Pokémon are more lively and have much more personality than before.

>>32495386

Same reason why Criminal Minds and Bones went on for 12 seasons each.

Here's the ratings and rankings for XY, as far back as I can find.

XY
55 - <4.4
56 - <4.4
57 - 4.6 - 8th
58 - <4.8
59 - <4.4
60 - <5.2
61 - <4.7
62 - <4.6
63 - 4.4 - 7th
64 - <4.3
65 - 4.6 - 9th
66 - 5.0 - 8th
67 - <3.8
68 - <4.5
69 - <4.4
70 - 3.5 - 10th
71 - <4.0
72 - 3.7 - 10th
73 - <3.8
74 - <4.0
75 - <4.2
76 - 4.8 - 8th
77+78 - 3.9 - 9th
79 - 4.1 - 10th
80 - 3.4 - 9th
81 - 3.9 - 10th
82 - 3.7 - 5th
83 - 3.6 - 10th
84 - <3.2
85 - <3.9
86 - 4.2 - 9th
87 - <3.7
88 - 3.8 - 8th
89 - 3.9 - 10th
90 - 4.2 - 7th
91 - <3.7
92 - <4.1
93 - 4.5 - 9th

XY&Z
1 - <4.7
2 - <4.4
3 - <3.9
4 - 4.2 - 10th
5 - 4.4 - 10th
6 - 3.7 - 10th
7 - 4.2 - 10th
8 - <3.4
9 - 3.0 - 9th
10 - 3.5 - 9th
11 - <4.5
12 - <4.0
13 - 3.9 - 10th
14 - <4.3
15 - <4.3
16 - <3.6
17 - <4.4
18 - 4.4 - 9th
19 - 4.0 - 8th
20 - 4.0 - 6th
21 - 3.3 - 9th
22 - <3.3
23 - 3.7 - 10th
24 - <3.4
25 - <3.1
26 - <3.6
27 - 3.2 - 10th
28 - 3.1 - 10th
29 - <3.3
30 - <3.5
31 - <3.4
32 - <2.3
33 - <3.2
34 - 3.4 - 4th
35 - <3.0
36 - 3.0 - 10th
37 - 2.0 - 10th
38 - <2.9
39 - 3.4 - 9th
40 - 3.0 - 10th
41 - 3.9 - 9th
42+43 - 3.2 - 8th
44 - 3.6 - 7th
45 - <3.3
46 - 3.1 - 9th
47 - <3.6
SP1 - <3.1
SP2 - 3.0 - 8th

>>32495938
Damn, Japan. Guess they hate the shouene approach in XY&Z.

Dunno about you guys but I started watching Conan recently and it's pretty fun

>>32495960
>>32495960
It's hard to tell definitively because it was unranked so much, but judging by numbers on episodes that were ranked and how high the cutoffs were on unranked weeks, it looks like XY and first half of XYZ did slightly better than SM is now. But the second half of XYZ dropped hard into doing slightly worse than SM is now.

>>32495960
Rankings has been in decline since OS, the previous series always having better rankings than the current one

>>32495297
The yokai watch kiddies finally jumped back to pokemon after they finally got bored of the series

>>32495982
As time passes, S&M anime could be doing as XY/XY&Z or better or worse.
>>32495994
You could be right about that.

>>32495297
>a big rebound
It's ranking around and even less than XY was doing past the middle of its run, it happened with all series: each one has a lesser average rating than the previous one; and within the same series the ratings at the beginning are always higher than the ones at the finale. Don't be surprised when SM's final episodes get between 2.0 and 3.0.

>>32495994
This would explain why OS is 85, XYZ 209, XY 348 or Movie 1 and 11. So ratings doesn't matter anymore because it says not the truth about how they really like/dislike the anime.

>>32495329
Obviously, XY was literally a mediocre shonen anime and Japan already have more and better

>>32496014
He is right about that. DP had lower ratings than AG for the same reasons, and BW lower than DP.

The only reason AG has the highest ratings after the OS is because it came directly after it in the early 2000's. Of course far more people were watching the anime 15 years ago than they are now. It's also why May is factually the most watched/viewed female lead of the anime after Misty or the original cast, and why she has such a huge following in the fandom.

XY's ratings plummeted towards the end because they were dragging their asses; that's why XYZ was so fucking rushed; they were like "oh shit we've gotta finish this series before the next games come out"

That's why Ash-Greninja and Noibat evolving came out of fucking nowhere

>>32496113
The tail-end of every saga always has lower ratings. Look up the ratings for the last year of DP and they were lower than the first 2-3 years as well. It was the same for AG (Battle Frontier had lower ratings than Hoenn), or the second half of BW.

It's just that kids check out the beginning of a new series because a new game comes out and lose interest halfway through.

>>32496082
>OS is 85, XYZ 209, XY 348
Those rankings?

>>32496090
This.

>>32496110
May is basically cancer.

>>32496113
>That's why Ash-Greninja and Noibat evolving came out of fucking nowhere
>Not adding that they created Ash-Greninja to represents the bond

>>32496138
>May is basically cancer.

I hope this is bait.

>>32496113
The idea with Ash-Greninja came from Gamefreak.

>>32496090
Well, Pokemon as a whole is a mediocre cartoon, so it's fitting that when they tried to go the shonen route it would result in a mediocre shonen. And the "cartoon" part itself is an overstatement, it's actually a glorified commercial ad.

>>32496138
He means those rankings. The top 400 best anime until September 2016.
http://www.nhk.or.jp/anime/anime100/ani_report/index.html

>>32496153
We can agree

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I went searching through Japanese sites to see if I could find any charts. I did find a few interesting ones. First off, here's the ratings for the anime up through DP.

The blue line is average ratings, the yellow line is most watched episode, pink line is lowest viewed episode. The six points are Kanto, Orange Islands, Johto, Hoenn, Battle Frontier, and Sinnoh.

>>32496168
This top means nothing, Digimon Adventure in the 15th position when Tamers exist or the shaymin movie over the mewtwo one.
The normies have even more shit taste than the otakus.

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Here's a chart comparing the ratings for Pokemon XY and Youkai Watch, from January 2014 to May 2016.

Blue line is the average ratings for Pokemon, the red line is Youkai Watch.

>>32496144
anons here are unable to separate a fanbase from a character so it probably isn't

>>32496144
Dude, did people really like May? I just find it odd how she gets a lot of fanbase.
>>32496194
>shaymin movie over the mewtwo one.
Maybe they love cute and annoying pokemons.

>>32496180
So it basically proves the point. Every saga gets lower ratings than the previous regardless of the quality of each saga.

Johto has the highest ratings after the Kanto arc, does that mean Johto is the most popular anime saga? Of course not, it's considered one of the weakest.

>>32496194
It's not my problem if you can't accept what they like/dislike...

>>32496219
>Dude, did people really like May? I just find it odd how she gets a lot of fanbase.

Is this asking in a serious manner? How could you possibly not know, May in general, is a popular character? Are you laughably saying May replacing Misty over 15 years ago wasn't well received? Or that the Contests didn't become popular in the show? Or that she's not still to this day one of the most developed females of the show.

I imagine all Digimon series ranked lower than any Pokemon series that concurrently aired with them, even though the digimon anime is objectively better than the pokemon one. Ratings mean shit.

>>32496234
I could get if she was popular in the game. But I was indifferent when she got added in the anime. Didn't care about her development. And the contests though good, does kind of got boring.

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Here's a chart showing the ratings for the first 93 episodes of XY. It gives a better idea of what they were than my post here>>32495938 and it shows how they drop as a series runs on.

It also has the Gym match episodes highlighted in blue, and the TriPokalon episode highlighted in pink.

>>32496240
>digimon anime is objectively better than the pokemon one.
Well if you ask a random japanese he can say that the pokemon anime is better...who knows. Different cultures different tastes.
The ashnime in japan is a pretty great thing.

>>32495297
based Sazae-san remains the one true king

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Here's the same chart but highlighting character focused episodes. Blue for Ash episodes, pink for Serena episodes, green for Clemont episodes, and yellow Bonnie episodes.

>>32496263
May's literally one of the animes most important and popular female companions. She basically paved the way for all the main girls who came after, and is one of the most focused on or developed characters.

It's why the writers were able to axe Misty so easily instead of having to bring her back like how they kept Brock around a long time.

>>32495297
The new style makes it look like it's all fresh and new and not the same old shit we had for the past 20 years.

>>32496268
>TriPokalon
>Less ratings after the first one.
Who can blame them? It just waifu material contest.

>>32496270
>Japanese don't have shit taste
Even /a/, a board renowned for its terrible taste in anime, acknowledges that the Japanese are worse.
>a great thing
Yeah, so are Game of Thrones, Reddick and Memey, and aids.

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Here it highlights some mini-arcs. Yellow for Korrina episodes, blue for the summer camp episodes, purple for Goodra episodes, and green for the Shota introduction episodes.

>>32496263

Don't forget the Manaphy movie, I hated that one because of her (and the Jirachi movie because of how whiny Max is).

>>32496286
>She basically paved the way for all the main girls who came after
Only Dawn was good after her. To hell with Iris and Serena.

>>32496268
As you can see the ratings are getting worse. It will time to finish Ash story and make a new main character. I think Ash is getting bored for the Japanese.

>>32496281
there doesn't seem to be any pattern there at all

>>32496304
May scenes in the Manahpy movie were literally the only good parts of it. Every other aspect of the movie dragged or had stuff like Ash going super saiyan,

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>>32496320
>Ash going super saiyan
oh shit I forgot about that part, god that movie sucked. What a shitty way to end the advanced series.

>>32496372
The movies started going downhill in general considerably around that point, although the Darkrai movie was very good. Towards the end of DP and BW the movies went to hell in general.

>>32496372
Yeah the movie was pretty decent until this scenes.
Also
>>32496304
I really like the jirachi movie, is for me even better than the lucario one in terms of script.

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>>32496384
For me it's
>Lucario and the Mystery of Mew
>Jirachi: Wish Maker
>Destiny Deoxys
>Ranger and the Temple of the Sea
only one I dislike is Ranger because it's boring as hell. Jirachi gets a lot of shit because it centers around Max and people hate him but I liked it.
>>32496380
I honestly stopped watching the movies towards the end of DP. I'll check out the new movie just because I'm curious to see what they change

>>32495500
Hoopa unbound movie quiz had a question of what age ash was. Guess what the correct answer is?

Lillie.

Because Lillie.

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Can't blame them though, Lillie a cute

>>32496466
Fellow advancebro, you must accept though that destiny deoxys is unapologetically shit.

>>32496466
dont watch the Diancie movie. Its shit

>>32496372
The movie centers around May and her bond with Manaphy. Why couldn't May have been the hero?

>>32496786
Because the writers think only Ash can save the day in movies. Same reason all the other companions are background characters in the movies.

>>32496234
Calm down, Scott.

>>32495297
But it IS doing worse than XY.

>>32495403
that ne body of him, can grow, or is doomed to be a kid forever?
Jsut watch 2 or 3 chapters.

The Pokemon anime has always operated on the fleeting demographic rule, the former director even stated this in an interview

http://www.pokebeach.com/2008/07/second-pokemon-interview-with-masamitsu-hidaka-many-interesting-points

>Will Ash ever become a Pokemon Master? He laughed and fell back on the couch. He blatantly said that when Ash becomes a Pokemon Master, the show will end. It will be the last episode. Going back to my first interview, I did not mention that he stated the show was cyclical because it could be the audience is constantly replaced (since children get older and leave, and new children come in), so they are allowed to get away with having the same repetitive goal.

They don't care about keeping viewers, they're fully aware and plan for the fact that the current audience will grow up, stop watching, and be replaced by a new audience

>>32497254
They're telling you to stop watching children's cartoons.

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>>32496765
I haven't watched it since it came out. Must of subconsciously knew it wasn't good. All I remember is the fug battle and munchlax scenes

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>>32495297
>le ratings meme
Not this shit again.

>>32497254

I'm just wondering when the fuck "winning a league" became equivalent to being "a Pokémon master"

>>32495540
Next week is a Gladion episode and Lillie herself was barely relevant in her first episode you retard.

>>32497353
Since day 1 of the series.

>>32496147

It was a similar origin as Lugia.

>Anime head goes to GF to beg for them to canonize something they can use.
>GF makes something up that fits the story the anime guys have planned.

>>32495329
This is the funniest shit I've read all day.

>>32497353
that's how they always viewed it which is stupid as hell because being a Pokemon master isn't regionally exclusive. Ash would keep going as a new region is introduced

>>32497353
The day the gen 1 games where released. Beats me why that would end the anime though. Those leagues are clearly a regional thing nowadays.

>>32497360

>Episode shows Lillie's home life, and tells us about her family, and how she gained her current phobia (it involves Lusamine, blatant foreshadowing for later evens)
>"Barely relevant"

Yeah no, it was a heavily Lillie-focused episoded.

And Lillie is in Gladion's ep (she is the only main cast member aside from Ash confirmed to appear in the ep), so she will also get focus in that ep.

>>32497383
It's still not a Lillie episode. It's a Gladion episode where Lillie will play some role and speak some lines, but it's not a Lillie episode per se. So you can't call it a Lillie episode.

Also Lillie got little focus in her first episode besides a 30 second discussion of the family photo and a cliché "maternal instinct" scene at the end that was recycled literally six episodes later. Half her first episode was devoted to a battle Ash had with the butler. Her first episode was weak overall, and virtually nobody discusses it now.

>>32496941
>implying OP isnt simply baiting or showing he's a moron who can't grasp that TV ratings don't mean much if anything

>>32497408

>A battle that lasts three minutes is "half the episode"

The focus was Lillie and the egg, not Ash's battle

>>32497383
You mean a Lillie filler w/ some vague references to Lusamine.

>>32497428

>Lillie getting the egg that hatches into Vulpix, which plays a major part in her character development
>References to Lusamine and Gladion setting up future events
>Filler

No

>>32497441
You don't really know what "setting up" means in the context of a series, don't you?

>>32497453

>Lillie gets egg
>Egg later hatches into her first Pokemon

>Gladion and Lusamine appear in family photo
>Gladion appears later

Yeah, that's set-up, just like how Litten's episodes were set-up for its eventual capture.

>>32497428

>vague
>"LILLIE WAS LIVING WITH HER MOTHER AND WHEN SHE CAME BACK SHE WAS AFRAID OF POKEMON'

Vague my fucking ass, it's made very clear that this will be a major plot point in the future.

>>32497580
>>32497473
It is vague. Nothing was said about why that happened, how exactly it happened, what kind of person Lusamine is, what she's doing, none of that. It's as vague as you can get short of leaving the reference to her mother out of the episode altogether. Same holds true for Gladion. All we learned in SM08 was "they exist, and they will appear later and there's a link between them and Lillie's phobia."

It's "setup" in the weakest sense of the term, and it's vague. The Litten setup was far more concrete.

>>32497419
The focus was barely on Lillie and the egg. Lillie got the egg, showed Ash around her mansion or whatever, fed the Butterfree some food, spent 30 shoehorned seconds on her family photo, watched Ash stuff down some macarons, sperged out multiple times when trying to touch Ash's Pokemon because "dude slapstick lmao" and then Ash decided to battle the butler while Lillie does fuck all, after which Mallow shows up out of nowhere and then Ash and the crew scare off the Salandit.

A grand total of five minutes of this episode was Lillie. Five minutes of battle, and the rest was ancillary or inconsequential. It's not inaccurate to say half the episode was about the battle.

>>32497700
Meant to say a grand total of five minutes of the episode was "Lillie focus."

Will anyone watch the dub on Disney XD?

>>32495297
Because it's a long running show. That's the reason. It's not particularly well liked among everyone. It's just a thing that's always on TV and everyone can watch it. Shit like Sazae-san and Super aren't selling any Blu-rays or Merch. They're just on TV, and everyone can watch them, so they do.