Did Sun and Moon do anything right? I'm struggling to think

mommy lusamine

quality of life breeding improvements

Easy berries and most of the features of the other islands, curing status through Refresh, no reliance on HM s, uh... Wow there's really not much that's New or good.

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>>32167767
Mallow.

>>32167870
>ditching the chibi overworld model
>making the legendary relevant
>great soundtrack

>>32167767
Graphics and removal of HMs, that's all of it though.

>>32167767
What did it do wrong?

>>32167933
>ditching the chibi overworld model
That's not a good thing.

>>32167972
Festival plaza making pss removed

>>32167972
Level design, story and content.

>>32167972
Removing the PSS
Not being compatible with XY/ORAS
Not having bases
Not having an improved version of the contests
Bikes work better than Tauros

>>32168080
>That's objective.
It isn't. I personally think the chibi models were cute.

>I prefer models to sprites.
What does that have to do with anything? Do you not understand the difference between models and sprites?

>>32167767
story but thats it everything else is worse or same

>>32168110
>>32168066

>>32168110
no that guy but i think the models we have now are much better than the chibis, especially since we have them inside the battles.

I know this isn't a boxart thread, but I propose a new question.
If you hated everything about the games and maybe think the series has gone downhill, why don't you just quit the series? Why keep playing games you are going to hate and think that it was a terrible experience? It makes no sense. It will never improve to the standards that you want, there will never be a game that has the huge multi-region map and the specific kind of postgame you want. If this is the kind of game you hate, you will hate all the future Pokemon games.
>inb4 /vp/ is one person
No, but this is all I see and I am using it as a general, nonspecific address to people who do these things.

I keep playing because I love the games, but that can't be said for everyone.

>>32168140
most people like to do it because they like shitposting, there's a reason why we have so many starter bait threads every day.

>>32168110
Not him but
The chibis were kind of cute in the cutscenes, but on map, they had awful blurry clothes and bore little resemblance to the detailed trainer card model.

>>32168136
We could also have both. chibi models wouldn't work in battles, but in the overworld they were cute and they fit

Iv checker on the pc

Sun and Moon were so straightforward and linear and quick to beat, and there was barely even a story.

I wish they had put some cutscenes in there to explain what the hell was going on but no it's literally just a nonstop journey where nothing exciting happens

>>32168180
I hope this stays

>>32168186
>SM
>Not enough cutscenes
Are you high?

>>32168168
not really, they were really really goofy looking.
i think they would be fine as icons if we get the PSS back.

>>32168180
YES, i only got into breeding perfect pokemon because of how easy is to check their IVs in the pc.

>>32168140
>If you hated everything about the games and maybe think the series has gone downhill, why don't you just quit the series?
Because I love Pokémon enough to desire it to be the absolutely best it can be, instead of settling for what it is.

Sun and Moon got so much wrong its hard to think about what they got right. I mean I did enjoy a lot of the new pokemon, but they had such indescribable shitty stat spreds, were made the hardest to find, evolved super late in the game or were found on the last island when the story was almost over, it made them hard to fully enjoy.

Alolan forms were a cool idea, but they didnt really do all that many, and most ended up being fairly boring in comparison to what I thought we would get.

The story could of been really interesting, with Guzma and Lusamine being by far the most interesting villains to date. But sadly they barley got a chance to shine, and instead we were dragged around an island to watch cut scene after cut scene, watching characters do the same poses over and over again.

The Islands were kinda pretty and it was neat to see the formula changed up a little bit, but it made the whole game feel short and there were very obviously rushed by the end considering painting fairy girl and dragon guitar boy were probably meant to be trail captains, and the fly elite four member was probably meant to show up at some point at the golf course.

Finally, the two things X and Y got right in easy online accessibility and easy breeding,ev training and leveling of pokemon were all completely abandoned for no real reason.

There were a few smaller things I liked, but it was all over shadowed by the rest of the bad choices.

>>32168163
I see.
>>32168226
And a few people complaining about a game beloved by the masses will somehow make them improve it? Like I said, the games will never be the games you want them to be.

>>32168439
>Like I said, the games will never be the games you want them to be.
They won't, but I have nothing else in my life. If I didn't spend my time dreaming about what Pokémon could be then I wouldn't have anything to do that makes me happy.

>>32167767
>Pokeride
>Refresh
>Regional Variants - It's a good idea, even if they only used genwun this time.
>Totem (boss) pokemon - this could happily coexist with gyms and the series would be better for it.
>SOS
>New pokes and abilities - Beware, Mimikyu, and Palosand are the best examples of this. Abilities that mean something to the design of the pokemon. inb4 "It's bad design if they're shitmons"
>The overworld map was actually breddy gud. Ambush encounters and hearing the cries of local pokemon as you walk around contributes to a stronger sense of place than Kalos managed.

SM were actually pretty good and advanced the series in both bold and sublte ways. Maybe you've just outgrown a 20 year old children's game? You might also be autistic and therefore hate change.

>>32168140

Are you implying that criticism is pointless?

>>32168472
But doesn't lamenting and repointing the flaws and how bad you think the games are become kind of defeating? I can't think of a non-food related analogy but it seems like the opposite of happy to me. Why not just play a romhack of something you might like?
>>32168517
No, nothing of the sort. The OP made a rather sweeping statement and I was trying to be addressing that (and the mass of it on /vp/ about any gen), not mere criticism.

>>32167767
>>32168322
Well, you finally learned that posting the box art is a dead giveaway that it's you, but you still need some work.

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>>32167997
Yes. Yes, it is. Are you a nostalgiafag of some kind?

>>32168532
>But doesn't lamenting and repointing the flaws and how bad you think the games are become kind of defeating?
Nah. I think Pokémon is in a dark age right now, but if anything it is only causing my love and ideas to become more prominent than ever. If I were satisfied with the current games then I would be a lot more apathetic about such things.

>>32168493
>SM were actually pretty good and advanced the series in both bold and sublte ways.
Just like all of the games before it, even X and Y. Almost none of that is going to stay in the next gen.

>>32168541
I'm not sure what your talking about. Are you assuming I'm someone because I have a negative opinion on the game. I don't dislike sm because I want people to get mad. I love he world pokemon has made and I want to see it improve itself. But sm felt like a step backwards, at least to me, in a lot of areas. I can still love the series while harshly critiquing it's new material. Sun and moon were okay games, I just expected something much more impressive.

>>32168561
I'm not. The chibi models were cute.

>>32168576
What makes you think it will ever come out of that dark age for you?

But eh, whatever floats your boat man, I'm not the opinion police. I can respect that you keep that feeling despite how unlikely it will improve in the ways you wish. Sometimes I'm glad I can just enjoy the games as they come, without thinking this far into it.

>>32168591

OP only wanted good points for SM, not reasons to be hopeful for gen8. :^)

>>32168601
>What makes you think it will ever come out of that dark age for you?
I'm not sure. Maybe Game Freak will have a change of directors eventually, or the current ones will have a change of heart. Maybe, since they apparently love to surprise people so much or because they feel like going back to their roots, they'll make a game without a narrative and a greater focus on level design.

If nothing else I can at least hope we can get another round of Gen 1 or 2 remakes down the road and that they don't butcher them by forcing more dialogue and exposition or nerfing the level design.

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>>32167767
>op pic
yeah i think you and i know what it did right

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>>32168576
>Nah. I think Pokémon is in a dark age right now
what makes you think pokemon is going through a dark age?, if anything it's doing just fine, with the spike of popularity it got from pokemon go.

>>32168657
>wanting more gen 1 pandering
what is wrong with you?

>>32168657
I think there's always the possibility of something great, but whatever it is, there will always be flaws that destroy it for people. I personally love the games having a story rather than the "get up and go" of the other games, but I don't think it was a huge "lets surprise them" from GF. I think it was more that they're following the current trends in video games, and it worked out well for them in sales, so I don't think it'll change anytime soon. I can't see them taking the old approach back into circulation when games like that are blasted or forgotten. An example I like would be The Legend of Legacy, one of my favorite 3DS games. It's a VERY difficult RPG with zero handholding, almost no explanation, and no mandatory story. Yet it continues along with exploration and never lets up on difficulty, actually just getting even harder to points where it reaches near-unwinnable levels (the Green Dragon). But the game got many bad reviews for not including a story, with many reviews mentioning that they expected something akin to Bravely Default and were taken aback by it being "too hard," lacking tutorials so they felt lost, and having no story. This is one of the reasons I don't believe that the games will ever shift focus to the kind you describe as desirable for you. The audiences have changed too much. Fortunately, this didn't stop Furyu, and there's a semi-sequel coming out. But I highly doubt it will be localized due to the audience here.

Regardless, I like a lot of kinds of games, and when I want a less story oriented game, I play an older Pokemon game. If I want a fun story or a change of pace, I play newer ones. It's something I like to see, game series not staying stagnated in one way.

I do hope that you can find something to enjoy in future Pokemon games anon, but remember, there's always the older ones you can go back to if the new ones aren't your style. Good luck anon.

>>32168561
Not the guy you're replying to but getting rid of the chibi models was a bad decision. They were perfectly fine and just needed more animation and touch ups to look better. Bigger normal-sized models just eat up more space.

>>32168878
Not him either but
>tfw I've been waiting for regular people models to return for a long time after Colosseum
>people want the chibis back now
They aren't even the hyper detailed ultra high polygon Pokemon models, the only change they needed to make was maybe not putting them into battle, since that's the only lag source.

>>32168912
Battles are the only place where they're good though.

>>32168923
It's nice to see, but it's the only real downside of the human size models.
People complained about less custom options, but I vastly prefer being able to see the trainer I customized (like on the trainer card) all the time rather than warped, difficult to make out clothes on super-deformed characters. It also helps the physical expressiveness of the characters, the odd exception being the emotionless MC.

>>32168598
For a 3D generation, it needed a more realistic approach, like Coliseum. The Gen 6 games already had their fun with the small model size.

>>32168598
nigger maybe in 2d
but in 3d the oversized heads looked retarded as shit

test

>>32168080
This. Pretty much nothing to explore, areas are fairly empty and have nothing to offer, story is generic and only interesting if you've seen literally nothing else, and there's really no content after you beat the game.

>>32167767
>I'm struggling to think of a single positive
>One
>Single
>Positive

This has been bait from the very begining and yet so many have fallen for it.

>>32167933
You forgot that it overall has a great story and the gameplay and exploration are really fun, and the graphics are very good for a 3DS game. Yeah it's not perfect obviously, it should've had the PSS over the Festival Plaza, and there's some issues with lag, but overall it's a very good game and is probably my 2nd favorite Pokemon game (behind B2W2)

i'd say that they took a lot of calculated risks by changing thins up a little, which with a franchise where every game follows a strict formula that was a risky but good thing to see. I like that trails gave you something to do other than just battle. (though some of them like the fire trail were rather weak in that department)
The finally got rid of hms which nobody likes. not one person who isn't a gen wunner would say removing hms was a bad idea. we've all wanted that for years now.
they brought back customization and they brought back poke amie and even buffed it with letting you heal status conditions for free with it.
Poke pelageo gives you an easy way to ev train your pokemon if you have no idea what you're doing, making competitive more accessible to normies. Same thing with wonder training for people who don't want to breed for ivs.
they introduced us to all but one of the elite four before we battled them, giving us a reason to give a shit about them when we finally do battle them.

Sure they dropped the ball a lot, but there's a lot here that doesn't get appreciated.

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>>32167767
Very sexy trainer designs

As someone who hated all of gen 6, is Sun/Moon worth picking up?

>>32169712
>bara
every time
I just want some gay material where they don't have massive puffy muscles the size of beach balls

>>32168087
BIKES CAN"T CRASH THROUGH A ROCK .

>>32169749
it's pretty fucking different
like by miles

it has pros and cons that can easily be switched to cons and pros in that order depending on your tastes

all i can tell you for sure is that it's not at all like XY

>>32169751
There's lots of twink fanart too. Especially of Gladion and Ilima.

>>32169749
No. Not really. It arguably is a step-up in some things but it's a step-back in many others, not just from the standard XY and ORAS set, but franchise-wise overall.

>>32167767
Lana is cute. But even that's wrong, because once you battle her in her bedroom she vanishes from the gone forever.

>>32169766
You haven't tried hard enough. If you slam really hard into the rock, it will break.

>>32167767
Is that Effie???

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The trainer designs in this game were great. I also liked the totem pokemon, iv checking at the PC, polkapelago, title defences and some of the new forms for the old pokemon and bottle cap hyper training.

Wasn't a big fan of all the nerfs they did, Z moves, the lack of a way to train pokemon efficiently, removing 60% of the mega stones (seriously, what the fuck?) Or how short and rushed the game felt.

>>32168532
Oh, this is familiar.
>Trust me, Awakening is just to garner sales and a sizeable fanbase, they'll definitely make another great FE again! It's just in a slump!
Only this time it's
>Why are you even sticking around? Just leave if you dislike it so much, drop the series because I'm incapable of understanding what a fucking fan is

>>32167767
They're better than gen 4 and 5 in pretty much every regard. Not a high bar, but still.

>>32168322
Do you think it has been rushed to publish it a bit before the Switch so the 3DS could generate more profits when waiting for the NX, which was already rumored if I remember correctly.

>>32169766
They should let you have a shoulder Pokémon that uses Rock Smash by itself from afar when you get near a rock.

>>32168692
Delicious alolan armpits

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>>32170195

>>32167767
>tons of QOL improvements
>no more HMs
>Z-moves
>trainer models
>lots of sidepaths and places to explore
>great and diverse regional dex
>perfect difficulty balance
>interesting areas
>god-tier legendary trio
>actual story
>actual characters that grow and develop

that's all I can think of off the top of my head. does it answer your question?

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>>32167997
>That's not a good thing.

>>32171232
>perfect difficulty balance
My fucking sides senpai

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>>32167997
>>32168168
>>32168598
>>32168878
>we are now at the point where the anti-SM shitposters are unironically saying that chibi models should have stayed

>>32171274
well yeah, it was hard enough that you couldn't just mindlessly tap A and win, but easy enough that it could still be played casually.

idk why people like you want the return of forgettable and easy-as-hell gym leaders, but I definitely like the change.

>>32171275
I knew they would have gotten rid of them after ORAS before SM was even announced and I liked them already. Shut up.

>>32171275
Not anyone that you responded to, but if it was between "Chibi Models" and "The game drags for EVERYTHING", I'll take the former every single time.

It's extra insulting when you crack open a Gen VI game and it plays so much smoother and nicer than SM do. It almost feels like you're downgrading everything but your dex.

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>>32171354
>I like weird chibi models for every human even though they look terrible on the 3ds and aren't replicated in the actual trainer sprite

>>32167767
>>32170175
Exactly what I thought

>>32168778
Pokemon Red had a story, but it was mostly told through NPCs, some forced battles/encounters and visuals. Not through 45 minute "cutscenes"

>>32171371
>trainer sprite
What the fuck are you talking about you dumbass?

>>32171432
The sprite (or the portrait, if you prefer) you see at the start of a battle, I suppose.

>>32171506
>aren't replicated
They are though. They just use a different style for battles, where the overworld style wouldn't work.

>>32171539
This. This has been the format of the game's graphics since literally Day 1. The trainer portrait isn't the same thing you see on the overworld. It never has been.

Just got a 3ds that came with pokemon Y and then bought myself moon.

I started with moon because I couldn't figure out how to delete the old save file on Y at the time I had both in front of me.

What are the major differences? I know that Y introduced mega evolutions, which I haven't even seen yet in moon, also that SM adds these z-moves. Is XY any harder/more engaging? I feel like moon is just handholding me through everything and making me watch stuff more than play the game

>>32170181
>Wasn't a big fan of all the nerfs they did

Is there a good source to see these kinds of changes? I know paralysis and confused changed a bit

>the lack of way to train pokemon efficiently

I'm a genwunner (and 2). Used to just be running over the elite four for ages. I played a bit of platinum, BW/BW2. I liked the whole join avenue in BW2, but never went far with it. What gens did this well?

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>>32167767
Pros:
Got rid of HMs with the advent of Pokeride.

What >>32167870 said about Berries and Refresh. Getting -EV berries is super efficient for a single player run and cleaning up/applying medical stuff to pokemon after a battle really helped me to bond with my digital spreadsheet pet.

Some older pokemon got revitalized due to regional forms

Team Skull is a wonderful subversion of all the other 'Teams' from the last 6 gens

Neutral:
Pokemon Battle Royal seems meh.
I'm not sure how I feel about the removal of Gyms.
It still seems as though Pokemon is still targeting young kids as their main demographic, even though they really don't care as much about pokemon as an older demographic.

Cons:

The Usual standard complaints of having my hand held though 2 and a half islands by the game and Too Many Cut Scenes.

Lillie made me roll my eyes too many times.

I miss Rivals. Hau is not a rival, he's a friend who happens do be doing the same thing you're doing.


Wants:
I wanted a better Pokemon Amie that is essentially a Virtual Pet thing so I can bond with my digital spreadsheet.

Also Walking Pokemon

More Freedom now that we are no longer stuck as sprites or psudo-sprites. I'm not asking for GTA or Skyrim, but some more exploration rather then the last Island would have helped.

Don't Want:
Please for the love of god, don't release Stars or another Pokemon Stadium/XD/Battle Revolution for the Switch soon. The Switch is just not worth it with it's current Library and Manufacturing Issues

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>>32167767

Bestgirl

>>32171232
>z-moves
>sidepaths
>difficulty balance
>interesting areas
>good legendaries
>story
>characters
except all of these are either wrong or shit

>>32172070
Not a girl, but would still bang.

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>>32172070
>girl

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>>32169686
All very valid points until
>The exploration is fun

What exploration? Seriously. There's like two areas to find by exploration, one is Kala'e bay and the other is the cave to Kala'e bay.

>>32171926
Black and white had the tennis court shit with trainers in their 70s. Most games had a Vs. Seeker, too, lettting you rebattle trainers with higher levels than the E4. HG/SS also let you rebattle gym leaders with higher levels than the E4.

>>32171926
http://pokemondb.net/pokebase/270531/what-are-all-the-nerfs-and-buffs-in-pokemon-sun-and-moon

Scroll down to see the list.
B/w 1 and 2 , and or/as did training to 100 best imo.

>>32169686
The story is incredibly generic, the gameplay is... Pokemon. I mean, sure, that's fun, but it's not something that should be held in its favor (nor should it be held against it).

There is barely any notable exploration.

>>32172055
>Some older pokemon got revitalized due to regional forms
some older pokemon?
like sudowoodo?
or golurk?
or maybe spiritomb?

>>32171415
It wasn't really a story so much as an excuse to go on your journey. The plot was so incredibly barebones it could barely even be considered one, and a lot of it was simply optional dialogue by NPCs, which is exactly what I was talking about with The Legend of Legacy. It TECHNICALLY has a story, but it's very barebones and much is optional and has to be interpreted from item givers. People don't like that as far as modern casual audiences go, at least from what I see, but it's sometimes rather refreshing compared to some other modern RPGs.

I don't mind either one though.

On one hand, I like seeing the game have a story, especially not one that makes the player a super special chosen one, but rather a motivator and plot element for another character. It's an interesting way to handle a plot and it made me care about Lillie as a character. The villains felt a mite underutilized but the plot was enjoyable enough. It also had surprisingly little dialogue for an RPG, but more than most Pokemon games enough for it to establish a new plot style.

On the other hand, I also love the barebones exploring type plots where they leave it up to the player to make their own way and have a more immersive, personal adventure. It helps the player get more attached to the party members and feel more like they themselves are in the story. Boss battles and other such content feel more like they're actually in that place, mapping it out as they go. Very immersive and fun as well.

But both are great things, and I would hate it if a series I love stagnated in one style of play/story. It keeps the core gameplay mechanics while changing it up to fit a new audience at the same time. I don't expect everyone to enjoy all kinds of game, but (assuming you're the same anon) I hope that even people who dislike one style can find some things to enjoy and hope for in future installments.

>No HMs
That's about it, and even then they kind of fucked it up by putting the MC in a retarded outfit when using the ride Pokemon.

>>32169686
>2nd favorite Pokemon game

You have some pretty bad taste. Only B2W2 being your favorite stops you from having outright shit taste.

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yes,they introduced some amazing mons like this big guy

+no HMs
+Team Skull was funny
+attempt to have a story that wasn't garbage like XY was nice

-E4 were the same people who you battled before
-no victory road
-game felt super XP starved if you don't use the XP Share thanks to little trainers and the most pokemon that people had are 4 max

>>32167767
>the region feels larger and nice to explore even though it's made extremely linear by stupid roadblocks. Kind of a half positive note
>the overworld looks much better, I could not look at XY after playing SM
>new mons are a mixed bag but tapus are a nice addition to the metagame as in they give the terrain mechanic the spotlight it didn't have in gen6. Alolan formes are also pretty cool, sure there aren't many of them but hopefully GF will go back to this system to "fix" relatively useless old mons without megas
>battle interface improved with stat-ups and the likes
>ev training, berry farming and others relatively cumbersome and tedious activities are all grouped in a single feature that doesn't even take in-game active time to do.

the game isn't that bad in and of itself, I mean it still stole 200 hours of my time so I guess it's worth the 40 bucks I spent on it. It's bad in comparison to what it should have been (there are tons of hints toward cut/underdeveloped content).

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The Pokemon designs.

The absolute most important element of the games for me and the prime reason I love SM.

Regardless of everything else, it has a high ratio of my absolute favorite designs, and it feels awful to go back to games that don't have stuff like Buzzwole or Golisopod in them.

The game could be an amazing game with all six regions, a supersized battle frontier or whatever it is people want, and a optional story that had writing to rival the best RPGs to ever exist, and it would still be a shitty game to me if the Pokemon designs were ones I didn't like.

They are the main reason I continue to buy the games and SM, regardless of the flaws it has, has a ton of amazing designs, some that I have been wondering when they would happen for many, many years.

It's a dream come true for the designs, and that's why it's one of my favorite Pokemon games.

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>>32167767
>worst story plot in the series
>most hated cast of characters in the series, not a single character can be unironically considered good
>lillie
>worst selection of new Pokemon
>worst soundtrack in the series
>lillie
>framerate always at a consistent 10FPS
>FUCKING LILLIE
There are no positives.

>>32176861
>worst soundtrack in the series
what's wrong with it? I haven't listened to the whole thing yet, but from the few tracks I know it sounds pretty good.

>>32167767

the only thing i miss in sm is the lack of grindy paths, i mean it's an rpg and there should be more battles

i mean i liked pokemon xd, but there was much more flavor in its towns, so yeah

>>32177166
I think the removal of gyms may have unintentionally resulted in a side effect of towns/cities being less memorable in Alola, compared to other regions with gyms in their towns/cities.

Considering we've been conditioned to expect gyms in cities for 6 generations, and trials being done outside on routes, this in turn made Alola's towns potentially unmemorable for players.

>>32175230
>The pokemon designs
>The absolute most important element of the games for me

anon knows what's up
also why i think unnovabortions will never find true happiness

>>32177088
lack of synthetic sounding bullshit makes nostalgiafags go mad

the league title defense soundtrack is a fucking beast of a theme
arguably the best in the whole series

>>32177535

Epic meme

>>32177570
i mean it's the best of the title defense themes not the best of all themes