>Gen 2: OU >Gen 3: BL >Gen 4: UU >Gen 5: RU >Gen

lack of recovery
poor thing should've got shore up for an eggmove

>>32147654
no kind of buff throughout the gens, only the mega but that attempt wasn't good enough.

>>32147694
this

just like every single bad defensive mon, its main issue is the lack of recovery

>>32147701
At least it has a top tier design desu

>slow as hell
>mediocre attack
>no Special bulk whatsoever

Honestly, it's more surprising that it was ever OU. How did that even happen?

Be lucky it's not in PU. All it needs is a recovery move.

>>32147742
>PU

What is this?

>>32147747
the best tier

>>32147654
Better pokes came out
Steel types lost resistances
Steelix just couldn't get with the times

>>32147733
I really liked it
Shame it's trash, I tried to run one with the best set I could and it couldn't even pull its weigh on its tier.

>>32147747
Literally the bottom of the trash bin when it comes to pokemon in singles. Shit like ledian and cacturne. Just memes. Even the name is a joke, it's not an acronym like the others, it was chosen for the sound it makes when it sounds, which is why the other naming alternative was FU
It's a lot of fun desu, it has a ton of variability and odd teams for the most part

>>32147654
>no recovery
>underwhelming attack
>little special bulk
in that specific order. giving it recovery should at least bump it out to RU

>>32147742
Practical use, not use like 'What is beauty?' because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy.

>>32147736
fuck you snorlax: the pokemon

>>32147800
>what is Earthquake

No, "fuck you Snorlax: the Pokémon" is Skarmory or Miltank.

>>32147654
>What went wrong?

>Huge ass rock snake
>45 atk
>Wurple/Jigglypuff/Zubat/Woobat/Pidgey even motherfucking Floette and Cutiefly
>45 atk
>Even hugher ass steel snake
>85 atk
>Kriketune/Doduo/Amoonguss/Paniward/Drilbur
>85 atk

Idk you tell me.

>>32147815
I know this is a meme and everything, but attack isn't the only thing that matters, specially on a defensive pokemon, you know.

No one seems to be mentioning the awful typing either

Good steel types usually have a secondary typing or ability which negates at least one weakness (Heatran is neutral to Fire, Metagross to Fighting, Ferrothorn to Ground...). Steelix has no cover for any of its Steel weaknesses and gains a weakness to the very common Water type (incl. defensive waters, its direct competition).

It was basically designed to fail. A regional variant would probably be able to redeem it, though.

>no recovery moves
whats so bad about rest?
also, protect+dig+leftovers.


>>32147811
>eq
>on 200 def mon
even SE, not that scary.

>>32147815
>fat people have high attack
no, their own weight get in their way.

>>32147831
Even if Steelix had recovery, what would you use it for? It can take physical hits but it can't hit back for shit.

There is literally no reason to use Steelix except for its neat design.

>>32147853
mega steelix has 125 base attack.

that being said, don't look down on walls.

>>32147845
>no, their own weight get in their way.
>a Steelix head butt will hurt as much as a Doudo pecking your arm.

>>32147832
Heatran comes with flash fire too

>>32147736
>>32147800
>>32147811
>>32147845
Steelix is gold in GSC because it has a reasonably good match-up against the top three Pokémon in the game (Snorlax, Zapdos, Raikou) and learns Roar.

>>32147860
>125 attack with no ability
>when you have 140 atk filter Aggron with less weaknesses.
Idk dude I can't find a reason to use Steelix

>>32147694
>poor thing should've gotten shore up for an Egg move.

The main issue with that would've been chaining it to Onix, you'd have to give Shore Up to Cofagrigus via Egg Move as well.

>>32147853
Steelix has access to STAB earthquake and gyro ball, on top of curse for boosting and making GB stronger.

Remember talonflame was an offensive god with it's absolute trash offense due to its 120 BP moves, and that swellow terrorized the lower tiers last gen with boomburst even with no special attack.

High base power moves and boosting items/moves can more than make up for low stats

>>32147876
forgot to add, steelix is still a wall first and foremost, and has moves to help on top of its ridiculous defense.

>>32147876
That's a good point, but how many Curses do you think you could pull up? Switch into any special attacker and you have to either switch back or pray to survive the hit.

Anyway it wouldn't be so crazy to give Steelix +20 atk right?

>>32147861
its too tired to wave its head around. didn't you see it's speed?
heavy slam on the other hand...

>>32147872
im not saying there aren't better pokemons, im saying steelix is usable even as an attacker if you really wish it.
tough its still better off as wall.

>>32147901
>im not saying there aren't better pokemons, im saying steelix is usable even as an attacker if you really wish it.
Anything is usable if you want, I'm just mad that 200 defense is an excuse to give Steelix shit stats on anything else, its BST will look high anyways.

>>32147898
>but how many Curses do you think you could pull up
one is enough, increased defense and bolstered 85 attack poured into 100 and 120 BP moves will be enough to 2HKO anything that doesn't resist, one more curse wont net you OHKOs, and you have recovery for when the HP gets lower

and +20 seems a bit too much, I'd give it +10 attack, and maybe +10 SpD too.

>>32147916
whats wrong with having steelix as a wall? its weight means heavy slam is monstrous even with little evs in atk.

>>32147941
Nothing wrong, it sure can take physical hits but it can't do that much to the enemy. What would be your ideal wall set for Steelix? Rocks? Toxic? Set up? spam Heavy Slam?

>>32147941
heavy slam is a meme, it doesn't weight enough to get the max damage most of the time
GB on the other hand... specially with curse

>>32147898
Dragon Tail/ Roar

>>32147965
dig
protect
gyro ball
sand tomb

leftovers
252atk+, 128hp/spd
yes, no investment on def. it doesn't need it.

>>32147999
>gyro ball
fuck, i meant heavy slam (yes, it will work on most birds... well maybe, ok GB.)

also, sturdy.

Does Steelix have any good moves for sheer force?

>>32147765
Cacturne is good in PU, but Ledian is unusable trash even there. It would probably be shit even inf FU was a thing.

>exclusively physical wall with no recovery, poor attack, and a typing that every team has more than enough coverage for.

Even against physical threats, he walls fairly poorly, full attack investment fighting types or even bulky STAB EQ users like Hippowdon ruin him.

In general he has no good match-ups against other walls, even full attack STAB EQ is like a wet napkin to the water type walls that scald him to death. And he has just as little luck with sweepers, most of whom have coverage to easily remove him.

>>32148025
Rock slide

I'm using Steelix for the first time in gen 7, I never really cared before and had no friends to trade
It's working pretty great as a Partner for Sylveon
>>32148025
Iron tail if you ever actually land it

>>32147765
>>32148279
ledian is excelent sp wall you mongs.

>>32148343
>enemy switchs to a mon that can use EQ
>I use magnet rise
:^)

>>32151339
>sp wall
>weak to fire, electric, ice and stealth rock
>hit for neutral by nearly every other type

HOW

>>32147765
>>32148279
>>32151339
>Ledian is totally outclassed and cannot merit a slot on any serious team, as Meowstic and Ninjask do everything that Ledian can better defensively and offensively, respectively. It has terrible offensive stats, which nullifies its large offensive movepool, and a shallow support movepool, along with poor defenses and a 4x weakness to Stealth Rock, making it absolutely worthless on any team.

Jesus Christ, Smogon is absolutely brutal on him.

>>32151339
It isnt

A great special defense stat and light screen isnt enough to make it usable. It has bad HP, no offense, one of the worst defensive types in the game, 4x weak to rocks, cant do shit if it gets taunted or encored, bad abilities, defog fucks it over, better PU pokemon are faster than ledian and can kill it easily

I really want ledian to be good, but its just garbage. almost every other dual screener has some kind of advantage over ledian, the opportunity cost of forgoing a better pokemon for ledian is not worth it

>>32147873
>defensive ghost type that isn't jellicent

what's the problem?

>>32151407
>>32151413
>>32151415
>only 2 turns for rest
>struggle bug
maybe it will have problems with the monsters in OU but it can still counter most sp attackers.
your problem is running screens. screens is support, not walling.

also,
>>32151415
which pu mons?

>>32151446
ledians main issues are getting taunted and ohkod by faster mons, rest or struggle bug does nothing to prevent this. pu pokemon faster than ledian include but are not limited to basculin, electabuzz, dodrio, floatzel, meowstic, leafeon, jumpluff, ninjask, purugly, rapidash, raticate, swanna, murkrow, zebstrika, leavanny, sawsbuck etc

not saying that screens are bad, its just that there's no reason to use ledian to set them up. its too easy to taunt or kill ledian. there are many better pokemon. at least meowstic has prankster and an offensive presence. mr. mime is faster, better special defense and better offense, but worse HP. meganium is all round bulkier, more offensive and has recovery. all these pokemon dont have a stealth rock weakness either.

also ledian does not counter most special attackers. a counter is when you can switch into something safely every time, sponge damage and force the pokemon to switch out or die. ledian does not kill anything. many special attackers with >85 base speed will 2HKO ledian, so it will not switch in to most things successfully. what can ledian switch into and directly threaten?

to ledians credit, u-turn is good and its immune to sticky web, spikes and toxic spikes. its only redeeming points. it isnt worth using over mime, meowstic or meganium, maybe more pu light screen users as well.

>>32151741
struggle bug and infestation can get past taunt.
ohkod by phys attackers you mean? just switch out. being countered with phys attackers is known and acceptable issue, but can you name one (1) sp attackers that can ohko it? or even 3hko it, considering ledian is using struggle bug?

ledian as screen user has u-turn, but yeah, use it as WALL not SCREEN set up.

>many special attackers with >85 base speed will 2HKO ledian
name 3.

>screens again
>using ledian as screens
but i said wall.

>>32151808
252 SpA Choice Specs Chatot Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Ledian: 183-216 (58.4 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Electabuzz Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Ledian: 162-192 (51.7 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Electrode Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Ledian: 205-244 (65.4 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Frogadier Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Ledian: 195-229 (62.3 - 73.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Golduck Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Ledian: 153-182 (48.8 - 58.1%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Ninetales Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Ledian: 176-210 (56.2 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I got bored going through the list this point. It's fucking trash mate.

>>32151858
>248hp
>not 252 hp
alright, it can only counter those after they had killed one of my mons.
i noticed lack of ohko, no ref to struggle bug and no attampt to use taunt. so keep saying its trash but you still need to prove it.

(also,second, fifth and last one forgot to include leftovers, so you only got 3 but good enough)

So any ebin Ledian sweep replay?

>>32151910
nigga the 2HKO means that ledian counters nothing. it can't even tank hits from special attackers, which is what its supposed to do. if its lucky enough to come in and NOT take stealth rock damage, it still cannot switch in on any of those pokemon. if someone sends in a physical attacker against ledian, and you switch, the pokemon you switch into will take a serious dent or have time to set up. ledian is nothing but a liability. several pokemon do exactly what ledian can do but much, much better.

what ledian set are you even running? assuming you actually use the piece of shit. this is the first time i've ever heard of struggle bug being seriously considered. are you literally verlisify?

>>32151989
it counters half your list and checks the other half. so keep saying its shit.

Yellow ranger (Ledian) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Early Bird
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Struggle Bug
- Encore
- Infestation
- Rest

(you are welcome)

>>32152002
pffft hahaha

>it counters half your list and checks the other half

elaborate

you have no idea what either of these words mean

>>32151808
>struggle bug and infestation can get past taunt.
No. If ledian gets taunted it's dead if it doesn't switch. Thing has fucking 55 special attack and it's being used on incredibly low BP moves. Even with its great special defense it hits for such little damage 90% of the things it could trap with infestation would kill it faster than it could heal.

I like how this went to Steelix to Ledian.

Steelix was cool, but he has been shit due to his terrible Atk, SpD, and his Speed does him no justice. Amazing Defense, but one Surf will murder the metal-snake.

>duel between first places

oh shit

>>32152132
a few of us got worked by verlisify suggesting struggle bug ledian, sorry

>>32152372
verisify isn't the only karenfag in the world you know.

>>32152043
instead of being so salty, try to actually provide counter arguments.

>>32152051
>dead if it doesn't switch
sure ill switch. the sp attacker is crippled anyway, which is what ledian job was in the first place.

>>32152423
>look at me mom I'm trolling /vp/!
Ledian is an irredeamable shitmon.

>>32152495
>i know everything about battling because i studied in smogon university!
You are are an irredeamable shitrainer.

>>32152518
Hi Verlis

>>32152584
Hi buttscab

>>32152584
>>32152612
You're both retarded

>>32152612
Oh no roasted

>>32152626
#like

>>32152617
nofunallowed.jpg

File: 1413513684511.jpg (64KB, 961x759px) Image search: [Google]

64KB, 961x759px

>>32151413
>him

>>32147873
Hello what's bad in buffing Cofagrigus?

File: 27291_nov_p02_02.jpg (21KB, 400x240px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 400x240px

Sand force and solar power was a mistake

Would Coil improve Steelix? +1 attack 100% accurate Sheerforce Iron Tail

>>32152809
A weather-setter needs to get a mega with one of those abilities. One that doesn't correlate to its weather. :^)

>>32152890
+ Life Orb of course

>>32152423
>sure ill switch. the sp attacker is crippled anyway, which is what ledian job was in the first place.
why wouldnt the special attacker switch then?

>>32152908
because the ledian got crippled with a taunt.
both sides got criipled, but one side did its job- walling- while the other side faied its job- sweeping.

>>32152890
Yeah it would be a good start, but without recovery...eeeeeeeh.
Anyway Iron Tail should be at least 90 accuracy by now, I really don't know why it's still so low...

>>32147654
It's shit

>>32152930
but the attacker can come back later and sweep

>>32152944
I don't know why it was ever low. Steel was a garbage attacking type up until gen 6

>>32154931
not necerily. perhaps by the time it returns i managed to set up my own sweeper. perhaps that attacker needed bp speed boost, z move, or a 1 time item before it could sweep.

>>32155082
perhaps by the time it was used against the sweeper, the sweeper was already set up and could just beat it (for example with any SE move)

speaking of Ledian

what would it take to make it legit good? Even with a mega they would have to minmax it and give it a strong ability

>Huge Power
>55/105(+70)/50/30(-25)/110/140(+55)

or

>Adaptability
>55/10(-25)/50/130(+75)/110/135(+50)

>>32155106
1st turn
scenerio a
ledian used s bug
sweeper used taunt
ledian did its job.

scenerio b
ledian used s. bug
sweeper did nasty plot
b.1 if ledian was quicker, eencore. ledian wins.
b.2 encore on slower ledian
b.2.I enemy was faster but used nasty plot/status move. ledian wins.
b.2.II enemy faster and used ofensive move
b.2.II.א. ohko. enemy wins.
b.2.II.ב. not ohko, locked by encore. ledian lost bulk, but the player can now switch to something that can resist the boosted but probably unstabbed attack the enemy was locked. draw.

>>32155235
>sweeper will stay in

>>32155242
on scenerio a, if sweeper was repelled its till ledian win.

on scenerio b, nasty plot rise spa by 2 stages while s bug only drops it by one, so it still gained the upper hand after the first round.

Steelix is my bro in Platinum. Works great as HM slave for stuff that is too shit to carry on any other pokemon and is tanky enough to take hits while I'm throwing pokeballs.
Current moveset is
>cut
>strength
>rock smash
>rock scale

I'd use Loppuny as HM slave but it can't use rock scale.

>>32147965
Mega Steelix ran as a wall can pair well with wish passers. It can set rocks and timers with toxic as well as it has decent stab offense in heavy slam and earth quake. It's typing allows it too work well with common fairy wish passers such as Florges, Clefable, and Sylveon. Vaporeon's water absorb along with fire resistance deserve honorable mention for a good wish passing teammate for steelix as well.

>>32147873
Why not let Cofagrigus get Shore Up too? It's ability only activates if it gets hit, at least let it recover good when there's sand around. Like in a desert. where mummies are found. Hot sand helped preserve the bodies, you know!

>>32151416
>Cofagrigus, Dusclops, Dusknoir, (Mega)Sableye, Giratina

Gen 4 pretty much screwed it over with the whole physical/special split. Prior to Gen 4, Steelix had plenty of advantages over the once physical types. Steelix already had some sort of cushion against Ground- and Fighting-types due to its massive physical defense. But those Pokemon now have special moves and can do significantly more damage against it now.

Also, Garchomp and plenty of other good Ground-types came to exist.

Gen 5... Excadrill exists. It's a much better Ground/Steel mon offensively. This was also the apex of the weather wars, where Excadrill (and plenty of other good weather sweepers shined).

Furthermore, this was the gen of power creep so stuff with shitty offenses such as Steelix couldn't fly.


Gen 6... More of the same power creep with Mega Evolutions and really powerful Pokemon, so Steelix couldn't hope to thrive in upper tiers. The standards kept getting better.

Even the Mega couldn't save Steelix. You can only use 1 Mega on your team, and Mega Steelix was outclassed by other Megas (especially Mega Aggron). Weather wasn't as common nowadays due to the turn limits, so Mega Steelix's Sand Force is shit.

>>32152809
>>32152892
Imagine if it was actually drought charizard and Solar Power Mega Char-Y.