Is this generation's OU the most cancerous OU yet? Seriously,

>>32120669

Weather wars were based.

I gave up on competitive battling a long time ago. The meta is never healthy and is always filled to the brim with whatever happens to be overpowered that gen. Frankly I'm sick of seeing Pokemon people would never ever use otherwise be on every team.

imagine the weather wars with the new weather setters and hail not being as useless

>>32120683
Boo this man.

the only good thing about weather wars is that I had an actual reason to run my bro tyranitar
now he just gets a pursuit kill and dies to fairy spam

OU wouldn't be so bad if the most butt-fugly Pokemon weren't the most powerful ones. Remember when everyone thought Landorus and Rotom-W were cool Pokemon? Me either. And if you have to use Pokemon you don't even like in order to win, that's just a step too far beyond me caring to bother with. It's Pokemon, for crying out loud.

>>32120757
I think Rotom-W is pretty cool.

>>32120761
Hey that's fine. I'm sure some people do, but I'm also sure most people don't.

>>32120757
This man knows. One of the bigger problem is that the strongest pokemon, like tapus and UBs are also the ugliest ones

>>32120669
I don't get this whole "Meta is cancer" meme. There's hardly any more cancer than before, it's just not the same anymore. And that's how Meta works. It changes constantly. The Pokemon and strategies that worked before aren't as effective anymore, and if you can adapt quickly, you can stay on top of the game. That's what makes it fun. It's not the same forever.

I find this ou much more focussed on the same shit. Previous gens, you could justify using a somewhat shit mon. Now, you seriously can't because there's too much stuff to prepare for. They need to suspect pheromosa and metagross asap to fix this meta

>>32120820
t.apu lele

It's all been shit since Heatran and Bin Landorus.

>>32120844
heatran has been an OU staple since gen 4, which was the objectively best one competitively

>>32120847

Heatran was the beginning of ugly shitters everybody and their mother used.

>>32120859
Looks are subjective. I think Heatran looks cute.

>>32120809
>There's hardly any more cancer than before

GEKKOUGA, Mega Metagross, Pheromosa, Tapus, Landorus-T, Toxapex and (un)predictable Z-Moves.

You know something's up when Keldeo and Clefable are still UU after all this time, it's been long enough to blame new toy syndrome.

>>32120859
don't you dare compare heatran to le mustached animals of healthy meta

File: 12715728_1027052477342790_1418802736609140330_n.jpg (34KB, 668x437px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 668x437px

>>32120757
>>32120781
just play UU you dumb niggers. There's plenty of other metagames to play other that the one you fixate on.

>>32120757
I just like Rotom period, really.

>>32120884

UU is awful now too.

>>32120871
gen 6 intoduced a lot of shit that is unfriendly to Clefable

>waaah my normal type that was shit compared to its 1st evolution eviolite user is still shit

>>32120893
Then play RU or NU and make your own set of autistic rules where your favorite mons are the best.

>>32120689
wow you are so cool can I have your autograph

>>32120820
I agree with Metagross but Pheromosa is nowhere near the biggest problem.

>I don't like the pokemon in OU but I don't want to play a lower tier the thread

Maybe there needs to be one more tier because OU and those mons that were generally OU two gens ago have been a power creeped quite a bit and I can only imagine that the pool of mons considered PU has risen not just because of new mons but because overall all the tiers have power creeped.

>>32120920

Smogon will never make another tier.

At the moment I just play Monotype, where Heatran, genies, Tapus/Magearna, Garchomp, Excadrill, and M-Metagross run rampant.

>>32120920
we're nearing the point where BL becomes an actual tier

>>32120871
And? What's wrong with those Pokemon? There are a new set of strong Pokemon this Generation. That's it. If you consider that cancer, stop playing any time because the same Pokemon won't always be on top.

>>32120920
>>I don't like the pokemon in OU but I don't want to play a lower tier the thread
WHY?
If you like the Pokemon in OU, play OU. But you clearly don't, so why not play lower tier?

File: politoed.jpg (24KB, 432x366px)

24KB, 432x366px

>tfw you lost the weather wars

I wish there was some sort of point system for teambuilding so people don't stack the same OU shit on every team. Half of OU is basically different combinations of the same 10 pokemon.

>>32120683
this
Onl faggots who didn't understand them hated them.

>>32120955
Not sure ask everyone else, I like OU.

>>32120669
>Is this generation's OU the most cancerous OU yet?
de ja vu
people say this every gen

>>32120971
You should have supported poke battle or whatever its called but ven then that system still sucks

>>32120971
That kind of thing only works in games where all of the team members are active at once. Otherwise the guys given the expensive ratings are just going to kill everyone till they are met with a similar threat.

GF needs to stop with the power creep gimmicks and continue fixing older Pokemon by distributing more abilities, stat buffs and widened movepools. That alone makes the biggest difference (IE, Sand Stream Gigalith) and even gave Pelipper a brief time in OU.

Fairies also need a nerf. I'm sorry, but that type has caused more harm than good this generation. It's superior to running Psychic types, and only has to worry about Steel types because Poison is still nowhere near offensive enough to be considered a threat.

Fairy should do neutral or NVE damage to Fighting (because Fighting, Bug and Fairy should represent the trifecta of "good and justice"), and be weak to another type (Fire or Ice comes to mind).
Bug should resist Fairy also.

>>32121014

What if it was something like, if you're playing in OU you can only have 4 OU mons or something?

>>32121024
>Bug should resist Fairy also.

>lets make Pheromosa and Buzzwole even better

I'm all for a Pinsir buff but I'm not sure at the moment that this would help.

>>32121026

Then people will just call it Cancer-Lite. Half the calories, all the salt.

>80% of OU is legendaries, pseudos, and megas
Is this not what ubers is for? I get that ubers is technically an OU ban list, but something is clearly not working here.

>>32121039
Considering the lack of Fighting types currently in the meta, I disagree that this would be a major problem.

>>32121024
pretty much this, you can't even blame smogon when all GF does is add stronger and stronger powerhouses every generation

>>32120781
Tapus are the only good-looking legendary trio/quartet since GSC and maybe RSE.

but generally you are correct.

>>32120761
>>32120781
My niggas

So now that most of the whiners have probably already left, I'm trying to understand the meta and Understand Z-moves. What the hell is useful?

>>32121063
True, but I was talking about just the bug buff. still I'm probably wrong.

File: Hold the fuck up Buzzwole.png (456KB, 1100x1142px)

456KB, 1100x1142px

>>32120781
>>32121070
pic related is the best thing gen 7 gave us aside for maybe Xurkitree.

>>32121065

This. Smogon is just trying its best to rein in Game Fuck's mistakes. People are naturally always going to gravitate towards the most low-effort easy-win OP shit in a tier, Game Freak just keeps adding more and more ridiculous pokemon while not nerfing or buffing the things they should.

>>32121065
That, and they don't nerf said powerhouses in the least. They neutered Talonflame to hell, but can't even bother nerfing Lando and Garchomp in the slightest?

These new stupid gimmicks they introduce (megas, Z-moves) only benefit already strong Pokemon. Reducing powercreep can only be done by slightly nerfing the powerhouses, and slightly buffing the weaker mons.

>>32121024
>Trying to buff fire and ice offensively

>>32120781

I like both the Tapus and UBs. Though Celesteela is the only one I use in competitive.

>>32121109
Considering there's now only one Ice type in the OU meta, and decreasing amount of Fire types as generations go on, yeah. Granted, Water could use a slight debuff too, due to it typically being bulky defense-wise; and since Grass is nowhere to be seen and Electric is literally all there is.

Make Water weak to Poison and you've got a done deal.

Hey people chiming in that you like Lando or Rotom-W or UBs or whatever-- we get it. But you must know you're in the minority there. You don't really think that so many people used a washing machine on their team because they liked it, do you?

>>32121120
any offensive buff you give to ice is an indirect buff to water since almost every single water type learns ice beam, not even mentioning shit like hp ice
to fix ice, you need to improve it defensively

fire is also amazing both offensively and defensively this gen so I don't know what you're on about

>>32121120
> debuff

it's called a nerf, newfriend.

>>32120871
>You know something's up when Keldeo and Clefable are still UU after all this time

> I have no idea what I'm talking about

Keldeo is one of OU's best Scarfers right now. It's still crazy good in OU.

Clefable still does what it does best. It's an anti-Sableye SR user that screws with stall, plus it checks Pheromosa and some other stuff.

The number of OU-viable mons is greater than the number of places above the OU / UU cutoff. Some things are always going to drift into UU as the meta evolves.

File: 1484709583298.png (123KB, 265x393px)

123KB, 265x393px

>>32120971
The point system meme is the stupidest shit people try to push, all it would mean is people minmax and optimize their teams even harder than they already do.

>>32120669
OU was never good.
UU is where it's at. Also RU and NU are pretty based.

>>32121068
"no"

>>32121120
>Considering there's now only one Ice type in the OU meta
Which doesn't have anything to do with how ice is offensively. It has to do with how the mon is built.

>>32120669
Considering gen2's OU exists, no it isn't.

>>32121464
Man this is so true.

File: sick of seeing me yet.jpg (4KB, 204x204px)

4KB, 204x204px

>>32121079
It's also the second-worst ultra beast. On top are boring roach and occasionally boring rocket ship.

File: reigen 3.png (631KB, 1067x800px) Image search: [Google]

631KB, 1067x800px

>>32121092
I don't see why they feel the need to do power creep, though. It's not like a TCG, where you need to sell the latest set and to do so it HAS to be more powerful than the last ones and render the previous top decks/cards obsolete, whereas with Pokemon the pokemon could easily be equal in power level to the previous gen and it wouldn't affect sales at all. You can even buff old mons and it'd probably make MORE people buy your games.

>Pokemon

>competitive

i kinda wish permaweather was still a thing, because now we have more viable Weathersetters and therefore a bit more variety

>>32121490
It's probably not intentional. The problem is that they keep adding legendaries. Sure, things like Articuno and Regirock are pretty bad but in the end if you keep adding Pokemon with 560+ BST that have intentionally good movepools and abilities you're bound to phase out common Pokemon. GF cannot really reverse power creep either unless they go out of their way to make a Pokemon intentionally worse like Gengar's case.

>>32121464
Yes, if we're counting it post-Garchomp. All the issues with previous gens were fixed, like no good bug moves, physical/special split fixing a shitload of Pokemon and allowing them to cut down drastically on shitty slow frail mixed attackers, adding special moves for physical types, and giving decent, reliable moves to flying and fighting types in Close Combat and Brave bird. All this and more with minimal unnecessary powere creep, it just gave the game the massive tune-up it needed to be competitive yet balanced.

Again, except for garchomp. Fuck garchomp.

>>32121514
Wow! I can't wait to see if they're using Pelipper or Politoed! What a diverse meta!

File: metagross-mega.jpg (37KB, 300x260px)

37KB, 300x260px

>>32121519
It IS unfortunate. I think megas are part of the issue, too. Really sets a new power standard for even regular Pokemon. You have to have a super high BST or you don't stand any chance against the insane power of something like M-Metagross, it really is an unhealthy new standard to have.

They keep introducing minmaxed mons, as well. Aegislash and Toxapex are obscene, stat spreads like theirs are the reason they put 20 into speed and 30 into Dusknoir's atk instead of giving it more than 135 defenses, but look at the game now.

File: i keep screaming.jpg (44KB, 568x451px)

44KB, 568x451px

>>32121543
>I live in a time where Metagross has been power creeped

File: oh god.png (402KB, 483x429px)

402KB, 483x429px

>>32121567
I live in a time where Salamence has become UU

This is truly what power creep looks like

>>32121576
Fuck, forgot the meme arrow

>>32121519
the thing is, they DID try to reverse power creep this gen by making almost everything slow as fuck.

but the end result is they created a bunch of competitively irrelevant like vikavolt.

>>32121672
That's not how you reverse powercreep. In fact they added more speed creep with Pheromosa.

>>32121672
It really feels like that, doesn't it? They made all the pokemon worse to combat power creep, then just said FUCK IT with the Tapus and UBs. I wonder why the change of heart?

>>32120757
I like rotom-w , I liked him before I knew he was good.

>>32121691
Again because those are legendaries and naturally had to have 560+ BST

>>32121127
You haven't run a census. Stop forcing your rotom hate, you shit mongler.

>>32121672
You can't reverse power creep by adding shitmons, people just won't use the shitmons. As currently seen.

I'd honestly be completely fine if Game Freak completely rebalanced every Pokemon's stats and have been wanting something like this for the last 3 gens. Give the shitmons from Gen 2 something to do for fuck's sake.

>>32121721
What we need is a new mechanic. I'm not sure what it should be, but I'm thinking something with the level of impact abilities had, so there are new ways to use old pokemon and have them be relevant.

>>32121700
But they're so obviously minmaxed for competitive. With stuff like Moltres and Uxie, they're so balanced they can't really do anything well, while when you take a look at something like Pheromosa, it's so insanely minmaxed it's basically Deoxys. Same thing brought us Kartana having 181 ATK, Xurkitree having 183 Sp. Atk and even the Tapus, which have reasonable stats at first, have such competitively oriented and oppressively good abilities that they didn't need.

They could've easily made balanced-but-good legendaries like Heatran, but opted for total insanity instead.

>>32121730
Don't fucking turn this in to yugioh okay

>>32121721
This is the most reasonable explanation. Rebalance the distribution of mons with 500+ BSTs but no focus and buff the shitmons like Farfetch'd to be 480+ and with better moves/abilties at the very least.

>>32121730
>What we need is a new mechanic.
What if Pokemon could do the digimon thing and evolve temporarily?
Or maybe if they got some sort of super one-time use move that's really powerful?

I dunno, help me out here.

>>32121749
*reasonable solution, whoops

>>32121753
I think he means something that would benefit shitmons and let them be viable. Z-moves are usable on everything and megas arguably went to many mons that didn't need them and don't really fix the problem when you can only have one on your team. I'd like to be able to use more than one former shitmon on my team at a time, and I'd like it not to be outclassed by the fucking 600 BST metal spider that didn't deserve the same level of buff.

>>32121106
>These new stupid gimmicks they introduce (megas, Z-moves) only benefit already strong Pokemon.
While this is definitely true for Z-moves, Mega evolutions were actually the perfect opportunity for Game Freak to give some much needed love to weaker Pokemon and make them relevant again. Instead they naturally fucking blew it by fellating all the already strong shit and Gen 1 in general (Gee Charizard, how come your mum lets you have TWO mega evolutions?). Still mad.

>>32121785
What's especially bad is that a large amount of the shitmon they gave megas were awful. Why did they take Regenerator away from Audino? Why didn't they give speed to Banette and take away from Sp. Atk instead of wasting new BST on it? Why did they let Camerupt stay a shitty slow mixed attacker when the physical special split was introduced 7 years ago? It's a shame shit like that can slip by while they buff the hell out of mons like Salamence and Metagross.

If they made more shitmon mega evos like M-Sableye, M-Mawile and M-Beedrill, I'd be very happy.

File: sneaky pebbles.png (10KB, 265x190px)

10KB, 265x190px

>>32121785
>Gee Charizard, how come your mum lets you have TWO mega evolutions

>>32121772
>>32121785

Yeah that is what I meant. Megas should have been give to shitmon almost exclusively. Now, not every shitmon with a mega needs to be OU, but the idea is that they become relevant again and usable. z-moves should have worked in a way that benefited low stat mons, or give better buffs to status moves (specially to low distribution moves like sticky web).

The point is, we need yet another mechanic to make shitmons relevant because GF already fucked up 2 chances to do so.

>>32121543
those great typing arnt helping things... does steel need yet another nerf?

>>32121866
Steel wasn't even nerfed. The dropped resistances came at the same fucking time being super effective against fairy did so they were entirely irrelevant anyway.
don't nerf the best type please

>>32121860
Also, I'm not talking about a super gimmicky one-use thing. That's why I said something in the vein of abilities. Maybe some of you here are too young to remember, but the introduction of abilities added a whole new dimension to battling. We need something like that, something that reworks the battle sistem and evens the playing field.

By the way, terrains were a good concept for this, but to have them linked to ability to be useful, and give it to Tapus was a huge fucking mistake.

>>32121866
I'd say so, 10 resistances and an immunity is fucking absurd, especially now that it's a good offensive type too.

>>32121873
You just admitted it was the best type in the game, it probably NEEDS the nerf.

>>32121876
I think the psychic resistance is uneeded, and dropping it would really help the type because it has become so lackluster.

>>32121886
Psychic has never truly recovered from the ball-busting they gave it after completely dominating the first gen

>>32121886
Definitely. It fits well, it already doesn't resist Dark and Ghost, psychic just has to be in there. How does metal even resist psychic energy, anyhow? Aren't psychics supposed to bend spoons/metal with their minds?

>>32121890
Even a SE against steel wouldn't really make it unbalanced, would it?

That would also buff bug indirectly.

File: 1483489362735.png (146KB, 500x523px) Image search: [Google]

146KB, 500x523px

>>32121890
It has

File: tapu_lele.png (156KB, 500x500px)

156KB, 500x500px

>>32121904
That would be perfect, there's just one massive tumor on the psychic type that's stopping that from happening

>>32121915
>>32121914
>One second apart

Hivemind my dude
Fuck lele so hard for singlehandedly ensuring psychic never gets a buff for the rest of time

>>32121822
>>32121860
Sadly I don't think new Megas, each gen has its own gimmick, this one being Z-Moves.
If DP remakes happen, watch us get Dialgium Z, Palkium Z, Giratinium Z and Arceunium Z, possibly with some primal reversions or some shit like that.
>>32121866
Please don't. I am happy that it got nerfed, otherwise already busted mons like Aegislash and Megagross would even be more busted but steel is known for being an amazing defensive type and a meh offensive type, aside from a few exceptions. Also, I was playinh through Emerald and back then Meteor Miss had 100bp, when did it get nerfed?

>>32121915
I think the other bunch of psychic shitmons should matter more than lele. So fucking lele goes to Ubers and the rest of psychic mons become reliable.
Because every fucking type can have a broken mon with GF's bullshit powercreep, even bug.

File: 1489104859320.png (225KB, 700x840px)

225KB, 700x840px

>>32121922
>Lele is added to buff Psychic types
>Fuck Lele for ensuring psychic types don't get any more buffs
I don't get you.

>>32121930
GF doesn't know or care about Smogon, though. They just know Lele is really, really good and buffing psychic would probably break the hell out of it.

...Though. GF may be so inept that that wouldn't even occur to them. I really hope that's true, I'd be so happy if we could just ship her off to ubers and finally have a good, yet balanced, psychic type.

>>32121937
Lele doesn't buff psychic pokemon, it almost entirely buffs itself. The only psychic type that synergizes with it in OU is M-Alakazam. If they wanted to buff the psychic type, they would've given it more SEs, not Lele.

>>32121937
A single mon can't buff a whole type you fucking retard. No one carries lele+hypno now, do they?

File: blank.png (20KB, 466x349px)

20KB, 466x349px

>>32121937
Wow, Tapu Koko really buffed the Electric-type, huh? Look at all the electric types that are now OU that weren't before thanks to it. Pic related.

>>32121965
They carry Lele+Alakazam or Metagross or Latios, pretty much anything that can hit hard from the start without setting up. Hypno was garbage since day 1, there's a difference between a psychic type being a shitmon and psychic being a shit type.
If you wanna blame a Pokemon for Psychic not getting buffed offensively anymore you can blame Lele but if you wanna blame a Pokemon for Psychic not getting buffed defensively for the past 3 gens blame Cresselia

>>32121988
Tapu Koko is a completely different matter and comparing it to Lele is absolutely retarded since they both have very different utilities and counters.

>>32121994
You just proved my point. Outside of mons that have alway been OU, no psychic type is now usable because of lele, so it really doesn't count as buffing a type

Just like >>32121988 said, koko didn't buff electric. If you go by battlespot, the tapus make it so a lot of pokemon of their type are outclassed. If you go by smogon, most pokemon can't get a buff from the tapus because of tiers. So stop forcing this, lele doesn't buff psychic, lele buffs lele.

>>32122002
Their primary function, the boost in typed attacks is what matters here. Eliminating priority isn't type exclusive, Pheromosa benefits from it just as much as M-Alakazam does. It's safe to say Lele buffs very fast, but frail mons, not psychic types.

>>32121994
People were already using Latios and M-Metagross and would use them just as much without Lele. M-Metagross doesn't even always run Zen Headbutt, it'd be the exact same power level it is right now without Lele.

Again, Alakazam-Mega is the only Pokemon that benefits directly from it enough to see more usage than it already would.

>>32120669
Yes, as someone who's keen on building competent creative teams and doing well with them, this generation especially stifles teambuilding.

The problem is the OU council. They don't know what the fuck they're doing in terms of suspect roll-out. The Dugtrio suspect was a waste of time. Metagrossite and Tapu Lele need to be tested and will extremely likely be banned.

Pheromosa is good to have, but people are still exploring it and it may be suspect-worthy in the future. Mega Mawile, Greninja, Lando-T, and Hoopa-U are huge threats being temporarily drowned out by the chaotic nature of the tier and will probably see suspects sometime down the road.

>>32121963
Fairy pretty much kills Psychic's relevancy as a type. Fairy hits Dark, which Psychic can't and is weak to. Fairy also hits Fighting, making Psychic type moves redundant even more.

Poison isn't much of an offensive type STILL, so no need to run Psychics when ya got Fairies.

File: team.png (173KB, 634x950px)

173KB, 634x950px

>>32122056
I don't even know what to use on my team anymore. My team always feels wrong.
Here's a pic, for reference. I haven't touched showdown since Mawilite and Beedrillite got released.

So, I just recently got interested in the meta game, but don't know shit about it. Whats it like and what are the staples?

>>32122118
A lot of the same shit from Gen 6 has carried over to Gen 7. UBs and Tapus just add to the cancer.

>>32122118
>SPOONFEED ME PLEAASE

>>32122117
wait there's something wrong here, Chomp is supposed to have SR not SD

>>32122117
Yeah this is what I'm talking about with regard to stifled teambuilding.

It looks like you're trying to play offense, but offense runs a particular way now to be successful, with either suicide lead + setup sweepers or as bulky offense which you seem to be trying. Your approach should be to think of the big threats and try to account for them. As you have it now, the best you can do is outplay, for things like Volcarona who sets up on you after Garchomp gets a bit weakened, Mega Metagross who you have to predict carefully, Porygon-Z who might just be able to sweep you if it sets up, etc.

There is no right team at this point, it's just covering as much shit as possible.

>>32122118
It's shit. If you REALLY want to learn about it, I suggest you go on Pokemon Showdown, do Watch Battles, OU, tick off 1300+, and watch the highest Elo'd games you can. There's too much for me to tell you.

>>32120859
To be fair when gen 4 was happening i hated heatran but nowadays I dont mind it and think the design is quite decent. Not sure why it grown on me, perhaps its just familiarity or perhaps the genies just set the bar so low that everything good by comparison

>>32122202
Heatran has a really cool cry, nice design, neat typing, etc. Seeing a Pokemon over and over again in competitive can make you start to hate it, though. I can't stand Smeargle, now, for example, even though I love its design, only because it's so obnoxious.

mother of commas that last sentence holy fuck

>>32122202
I'm sure it's the latter. Gen 4 had shit like Rhyperior and Heatran, then Gen 5 came in and gave us Vanilluxe and Genies, then Gen 6 was pretty nice until some of the Megas were revealed, and then Gen 7 gave us Incineroar.

>>32122118
Like
>>32122186

Said, it's shit. But the thing is, that's only true for OU, lower tiers allow for more creativity in teambuilding. RU or lower is preferable, I'm sad they haven't finished making them yet. But if you want a more balanced metagame, go to one of the lower tiers.

>>32122236
I think he was talking about competitive, not design anon. Correct me if I'm wrong
>>32122202

>>32122259
Well a bit of both really

>>32122266
I just meant in regards to the genies. Did you mean that the genies set your standards for competitive balance so low or design so low? Both are very valid answers.

File: nakoruru-cvs1-capcom-art[1].jpg (329KB, 768x1024px)

329KB, 768x1024px

>>32120971
Because point systems for individual characters of subjective power levels have always worked, and have never ended up with a small group of cheap, powerful characters dominating
Kill yourself

>>32120683
T-tar/Excadrill/Zard Y offense is fun as fuck in this meta.

>>32120683

This, they just needed more abilities and stuff to take advantage of field effects rather than go full retard with megas and HO.

TCG has better playbalance for crying out loud.

>>32121059
You don't understand the power gap between Ubers and OU. Shit like Genesect or Incarnate, which tore through OU, are completely irrelevant in Ubers. The issue is that there's not enough Pokemon to create a tier between OU and Ubers.

>>32121209
Not true and you know it. Something like Kyurem B would 100% be leagues better if it got a different STAB.

>>32121543
Megas are fucking weird, too. Why is it that some of them are straight up inferior to other mons? Pheromosa is stronger than Mega Beedrill, Serperior is better than Mega Sceptile, etc, etc. Hell, Garchomp and Tyranitar are stronger than their mega variation, and arguably that's also the case with the Latis

>>32122918
Except maybe in the case of Garchomp it's not that they are stronger, they just don't warrant the mega slot.

>>32122918
I think the reason so many of the X and Y megas were only ever shitty or broken with very rarely any middle ground is that it was a new concept and they had no idea what they were doing. That's why Mega Garchomp, Tyranitar, etc. are so bad. Beedrill is only bad now because they introduced fucking Deoxys 2.0 and it happened to be bug type.

>>32122930
I'm pretty sure that Mega Latios is inferior to regular Latios, especially pre Soul Dew nerf

>>32122893
>I don't understand what's wrong with kyurem
It would be leagues better if it got physical ice stab you twat.

File: quill me.jpg (7KB, 180x207px)

7KB, 180x207px

>>32122918
>Hell, Garchomp and Tyranitar are stronger than their mega variation
While I agree for Garchomp, I think Mega T-Tar isn't terrible. Of course the only set viable for it is a DD set.

t. used Mega TTar for the entirety of XY, hasn't played during ORAS.

>mfw haven't used him in so long Megagross is slowly replacing him as fav mon.

>>32120669
Gen 3 > gen 4 > gen 6 > gen 7 > gen 5 > gen 1 > gen 2

So many people complain why gamefreak doesn't try and balance a fan made metagame? They only give a shit about vgc which is balanced. The problem ou is the current banning system. The council so worried about the negative PR they get whenever they suspect anything nothing ever gets done. That's why lower tiers will always be surprise. Nobody gives fuck if something gets banned from them so the council can actually do their job.

>>32123183
>gen3 first
No

>>32123183
Swap 1 with 5 and that would be perfect

>>32122178
You could run both SR and SD on the same set. The only move I'd run over SD is Rock Tomb.

>>32122117
What are you trying to do with this? If you want some quick fixes run rocks over poison jab on garchomp and calm on fini if you run those evs.

>>32120669
>>32120683
Do you play gen 5 competitively?

>>32120971
We had this before (pokebattle) and it was actually really fucking cool. Problem was there wasn't enough interest to the tiers updated monthly.

>>32120943
Hardly

>>32124220
As I said on a reply I do actually run rocks over SD. I don't remember why I made fini modest but I do know I had one injected with that nature.

>>32124407
Yea i noticed that after replying. I'd run sd over jab or life orb over sash if it were me, but i don't know how sash jab fits in your build so I won't argue it. Your team probably still has problems with opposing volcarona, might have some trouble preventing fini from getting overloaded, and there isn't really a safe greninja switchin (thinking turn 1 when you don't know if it's ash or protean). What's zone doing? Still not sure what the focus is.

>>32124555
I don't even know why zone is there. Maybe for celesteela and skarmory and ferro if volc dies. Hydreigon is there literally only for a ground immunity. Yet I'd use something else but I hate Lando and gengar lost levitate. Could use skarm/steela but that would make 3 steel types and so on....

I swear, my gen 6 team, albeit not being well thought out, did its job

>>32124595
Give me some time to think about this. Are there any mons you want to keep?

>>32120683
this desu

weather wars were fine because you had 4 weathers (Rain, Sand, Sun, and None of the Above). You could run stall or HO or balance if you wanted and weathers were easy to play around if you git gud

I really feel like Gen 7 is it for me. It's not like I'm going to chance upon more free time anyway so i might as well use it on games that aren't developed by retards at best and actively malicious devs at worst

File: 17103794_986909298106253_8704322723160837267_n.jpg (15KB, 480x385px)

15KB, 480x385px

>>32122186
I'm not that Anon, but I went and watched Shadow battles as instructed.

I just saw Tapu's, Robo Fairy, Space Lillie, Trick Room, and VoltSwitch/UTurn everywhere.

Is... is this normal?

FUCK YOU SMOGON

also mandella

>>32125106
Yes, Tapus are normal because they're all good breakers, while in Fini's case it's one of the best hazard removers in the game. And Terrain benefits are so important that sometimes just adding a Tapu can defend against another Tapu or general team weakness since you can reset the Terrain to your control.

Magearna is an important mon because it's a role compressor given its Steel + Fairy typing (which is the actual best defensive typing you can ask for) and natural bulk to back it up. AV Magearna can serve as an answer to Tapu Lele, Gengar, Latios, Hoopa-U, Greninja, Alakazam, etc at once, especially given its access to Volt Switch to pivot out slowly into a mon of your choice. Alternatively, Trick Room Magearna and Autotomize Magearna (usually with a Z move) are great sweepers because of Soul-Heart.

Nihilego is another role compressor because it's an offensive switch-in to Mega Charizard Y and Volcarona (usually Scarf Nihilego does this to try and outpace +1 Speed Volcarona's HP Ground) and Fairies, Flying, and Normal abusers that hit on the Special side. Stealth Rock access with a strong HP Ice or HP Fire can make it a significant Sash lead too.

Trick Room can do well this meta because there are a ton of slow mons that perform very well like Alolan Marowak and Magearna, and a lot of reliable Trick Room setters like Magearna itself and namely Mimikyu whose ability lets it set it up without fail most of the time.

Volt Switch + U-Turn are important for positioning and pivoting so that you have the upper hand on the field.

>>32125077
Stall and ho in gen 5 doesnt exist. At the moment it is quite literally spike stack, the game. Needless to say, it's stale as fuck.

In what way is weather any easier to play around than terrains?

>>32125457
because weather inherently is not a deterrent

Tapu Lele's terrain has the advantage of benefitting the Lele player by boosting its psychic attacks and it hinders the opponent by robbing them of priority

meanwhile, rain benefits the rain user by activating their abilities and by buffing their water moves, but it's only hinderance to the other player is by weakening their fire-type moves

In general, the ability to freely use priority is more important in team building than just having fire-type moves

stall and HO definitely do exist, i obviously do not speak for its current state because there are like 7 people still playing it

OU is a bad meme.

>>32125493
Right, let's ignore the fact that giving +1 to water moves outweighs +1 psychic moves. The priority restriction can be abused by your opponent as well as you, unlike the buffs to rain.

If you don't play the game, then please don't make absolute statements about it. Watch spl replays and tell me how many stall teams were used and how many hyper offensive teams there were.

>>32125664
?
Enemy benefits from accuracy buffs for some moves and water moves boost as well.
Do you even play the game?

>>32125710
yeah nvm, just read >>32125457, now I know you are a complete retard or you're just trolling, if so, well you got me. Not >>32125077 btw

>>32120683
>>32120978
>>32122758
>>32122801
>>32125077
>Being this delusional
>Have such bad tastes in Meta Games
Permanent weathers (especially rain) were awful. I would go as far as to say that Rain in Gen 5 was the least balanced thing to last the entirety of OU. I still have awful flashbacks to fighting rain teams. Removing permanent weather was one of the best things Gen 6 has done for competitive, if not the best thing. Weather is that bad.

The closest Smogon got to getting a Drizzle ban was to break their own ban policy with the Drizzle+Swift Swim on one team clause.

Thankfully this shit mechanic was removed and won't return.

>>32125710
this is bait, but i've gone this far so fuck it.

Nobody runs thunder and hurricane on non rain teams in gen 5. I don't know why you brought that up, but i won't berate it.

the water boost is identical to the psychic boost in that both players can abuse them. That being said rain teams will stack more water moves than non rain teams so this boost generally favors rain teams. This holds for psychic terrain as well, but water is a much more abusable typing (both offensively and defensively).

Are we done?

File: 11186d97507916fd1c95aa69b010b3a0[1].png (318KB, 828x965px) Image search: [Google]

318KB, 828x965px

>>32120669
Miss me yet?

>>32123183
>tfw I really liked gen 2's meta

Anyways, Gen 4 had the best meta despite having introduced the Meta killer Chomp. Gen 3 is a close second as far as the best meta.

The rest have all been shit between gen 1 psychic dominance, gen 5 weather wars, gen 6 power creep boogaloo, and gen 7 tapus and UBs galore.

File: laughing.gif (2MB, 290x260px)

2MB, 290x260px

>>32125457
>Stall in gen 5 doesn't exist

>>32126228
Enlighten me. Post your team. I'd be delighted if you could prove me wrong.

I still remember the weather wars. Zard Y, Politoed and TTar sets were the shit. I hate this slow as fuck gen. I can't have fun.

>>32126035
I ran a defensive Bulk Up, Roost, Will o Wisp and Brave Bird on this fucker and it was freakin awesome. I miss my smogonbird.

>>32120683

>those retards that would put politoed in the middle or at the last position of their team as if they were going to trick you that politoed wasn't going to be the first pokemon they send out

>don't partake in weather wars, but use pokemon that have weather abusing abilities.
>now those pokemon are useless

>>32120683
This. Notice how the people that complain about Gen 5 don't actually have a real idea of what it was like.

Either they were stuck in low ladder for the entire generation, or they never actually played it and just feed of the memes the hear on /vp/.

>>32123183

Gen 3 >>> Gen 5 > Gen 4 > The four shit gens

File: Peace.jpg (424KB, 2200x1452px) Image search: [Google]

424KB, 2200x1452px

>>32120683
true.
>>32120669
especially this gen, ou is cancer. the only idiots who could even sensibly defend it are autistic. this is an absolute. it is so skill-less while catering to apes that im surprised people still play it.
if youre reading this and actually, legitimately enjoy this gen's ou, you need to drink a gallon of bleach ASAP because someone as stupid as you should not be allowed to reproduce let alone breathe the same oxygen as me. >>32120694
kill yourself please

>>32122893
>being wrong

>>32126179
From what I've heard, Gen II's meta was entirely Skarmory, Blissey, Snorlax, etc. stalling for fucking days with no real end in sight, to the point perishtrapping midreavus was OU because the mons were so unkillable, yet so weak. Is that not true?

>>32120669

This Gen is absolutely retarded. The most common and viable playstyles tend to either be batshit stupid hyper offense with paper thin glass cannons like Pheromosa and Gren, or full on stall shit like Chansey/Skarm/Sableye/Dugtrio.

Balance is dead and matchup is more important than ever before.

>>32126607

Not quite. Of those three only Blissey is reliably dealt with by Missy and it isn't staying in on it in the first place.

Teams are basically Snorlax + 5 mons, and out of those 5 mons, two are likely to be Zapdos, which is an offensive powerhouse, and Raikou, which is a specially defensive staple that spams Roar to abuse the ubiquitous Spikes.

File: 1464298191431(3).png (329KB, 1000x1000px) Image search: [Google]

329KB, 1000x1000px

>>32125442

>>32126618
Then Gen is fun as fuck. Abusing broken shit hasn't been this entertaining since that one week Deoxys-N was OU last gen. I'm kind of pissed they didn't do the Deoxys meme again.
>>32126368
>rain stall vs rain stall
I would never put myself through that. Stall in general was very common then.

>>32126368
>>32127894
Actually you're right. Fuck you.

File: deoxys 2.png (746KB, 1280x1134px)

746KB, 1280x1134px

>>32127894
>Deoxys-N was OU for a week

Holy fuck, my sides, what were they thinking?

;_;

>>32126504
>Notice how the people that complain about Gen 5 don't actually have a real idea of what it was like.

Other way around anon. The only people who like the Gen 5 deluded themselves so that they think Weather Wars were actually good.

They weren't. I would honestly say that Politoad/Drizzle in Gen 5 was way more of a "meta ruiner" than Phero Greninja/Ash, and Tapu Lele.

And I'v played lots of Gen 5 OU and CAP.

>>32126521
Gen 4 > Gen 3 > Gen 6 > Gen 5 > Gen 2 >>> Gen 1

>>32120869
Magma spider toad is indeed cute, also Landorus T is a freaking flying tiger it's hard to get cooler than a freaking flying tiger.

>>32124281
Pokebattle was retarded and devolved into "5 team variations only final destination" by the end.

Point systems don't work if you just arbitrarily assign points to shit just because of an ingame status or bst total.

Don't push the point system bullcrap, it failed horribly.

>>32128021
>CAP

Finally, someone else. CAP is just so fun to me, I like the ideas. What's your favorite mon?

>>32128061
LMAO, sinnohfoeti actually believe gen 4 wasn't the most cancerous garbage

You guys know any good partners for Buzzwole?

>>32128061
Gen 4 was fucking garbage

>>32124730
Sorry went to bed. Yes, Volc, Fini and Megagross which later on will be likely replaced by mega ttar

>>32125442
Just realized, meant Shift Gear Magearna, not Autotomize.

>>32127971
They were just testing the idea because Deoxys-N never sees use in Ubers due to being entirely outclassed by all its other formes.

>>32120971
Geodude w sturdy and stealth rock/explosion
Sash Ralts with healing wish
Sash buneary with healing wish
Sash Cherubi with healing wish
Mega gengar
Primal groudon

>>32128121
I feel like that can be fixed though with enough effort, at least on paper anyway

>>32120669
>he plays OU
kek
t. RU main

>>32129143
Then you have to pull a smogon and do viability rankings instead of use a BST+ingame status system.

At that point you are just discount smogon with an actual point system that discourages usage of certain strategies.

>>32129426
I play RU too, but you don't have to play OU constantly to recognize that it's the most cancerous OU yet.

>>32129143
Well, if you did assign points based on some vr-esque thing, that would give a seperate niche from smogon, who tiers based off usage. Can you specify what you mean by discouraging usage of certain strategies?

Pokebattle wasn't a fix all by any means, but I still think the concept was good.

PU and Random Battle are the best tiers

>>32129474
>>32129799
Tagged the wrong post.

>>32120907
Specs Phero and QD Phero are pretty broken tho

>>32130089

Are people using modest or timid?

I fell for the meme and went for naive/timid pheromosas but now I really want a modest so it gets a sp attack boost instead of speed.

What are the things that outspeed modest pheromosa that mind dealing with a timid one anyways?

>>32130120
Not him but Modest is always better for QD in the same vein as Volcarona's Fiery Dance.

For Specs, either is fine but Modest is nice for again trying to get SpA boosts a la Moxie.

Modest Pheromosa hits 401, so it outruns Tapu Koko and Ash-Greninja but is slower than Mega Bee, Mega Zam, and Mega Aero. Jolly Gyarados at +1 and Jolly Dragonite at +1 also outrun Modest but not Timid.

Good lord you manchildren get autistic about a videogame made for children.

>It's a people who don't play competitive whining about how competitive is and their wonderful ideas to "fix" competitive episode
Always good for a good laugh.

When will /vp/ ever learn?

Oh yeah. Gen 6 Ou was pretty solid. I miss it. I actually don't like competitive this gen. Do I just skip this gen and wait for the next?

>>32130205
>it's a sub 1500 shitter comes in to be a smug cunt
like clockwork

>>32130233
The meta's still gonna change. Things are gonna get banned, and eventually the missing megas will come back too.

It's still better than gen 4

>>32130321
Careful with that projecting bub

Gen 1
Blizzard, normal types, and fast wrappers fucking everywhere
Gen 2
>*pelts you with sand behind four blissey and a skarm*
Gen 3
Can't really say much about this one.
Gen 4
>smogon debut, stall intensifies, bow down to your garchomp overlord
Gen 5
>global warming intensifies
Gen 6
Cancerous megas among good ones but ultimately bad
Gen 7
Highly cancerous Z crystals and Ultra Beasts that centralized the meta

Cancer meter: 6 > 7 > 1 > 4 > 2 > 5 > 3

>>32130616
>Gen 5 the second least cancerous meta
>Gen 4 is the 4th cancerous
Unless I'm reading this wrong, your list is awful.

What's the most cancerous thing this gen? I don't follow Smogon since I'm more of a doubles person.

>>32130671
it's a bunch of things
on one side you have the tapus tearing shit up left and right, on the other you have megagross keeping them in check
then you have protean greninja that's impossible to wall depending on its moveset, ash greninja that one shots half the tier with hydro pump, lando which is on every single team, pheromosa which can single handedly wipe your team if you're not prepared, it's a mess
it's literally broken shit fighting broken shit and nothing is ever going to change because removing one of these is gonna make the others even stronger

>>32130671
There are a lot of contenders.
We got
>Deoxys and Mega Lucario in a roach
>Butterfly of no priority and Harding hitting Psychic attacks
>Literally having the highest attack in the game after huge power
>VERY fast meme frog running at hihg speed w/out Ash Ketchup
>Won't fucking die Swordfish
>Chicken-Electchan
>Fug flying types Snek

>>32126563
Take your own advice faggot weeb loser manchild. Gen 5's meta was complete cancer.

>>32120757
If you don't care about having a super high ladder ranking you can get away with using your favorites in OU and do just fine, presuming you're not too too picky and you give your UU and RU mons proper support

>>32121490
What are you talking about? That's really naive of you. They add new and powerful Pokémon to create hype and buzz over the games and then getting sales.

Since OU is already broken shit vs broken shit: the metagame, I'd like them to just go back to a bit of a free-for-all. Bring back Kanga, Mega Luke, Aegislash, etc and just see where the cards fall. It can't be any worse than what we have now.

>>32133214
aegislash is better gone, that shit doesn't belong in this game
kangaskan and luke wouldn't even be that strong in this metagame

>>32128718
desu they could unban him this gen and there probably wouldn't be much difference, pheromosa pretty much does his job but better thanks to that insane coverage and STAB muhmentum
at worst it'd give megazam competition for fast glassy psychic mon

>>32133663
>pheromosa but unwallable
you don't know what you're asking for

>>32133675
alright looking back on it's moveset i forgot deoxys also had ridiculous coverage, mainly since i only ever saw deo-a use the around 6 attacks total for any set

what even walls pheromosa? all that comes to mind is fini and toxapex

>>32133707
marowak, chandelure, mega sciz, any defensive ghost type, especially sableye

>>32133675
What about Mega Sableye? And why not unban Deoxys-D as well to get more things to wall Deoxys-N?

Is Metagross-mega with hone claws and dynamic punch op?

>>32133737
mega sciz doesn't even come close to walling pheromosa

>>32134503
no, that's still a very likely miss even with the acc boost

Was the physical/special split a mistake?

File: may.png (91KB, 288x190px) Image search: [Google]

91KB, 288x190px

So, how much would the meta break if an auto trick room setter was introduced?

>>32134868
No, continued power creep in the form of min maxed megas and legends was a mistake

The only thing that should ever run dynamic punch is machamp and that shouldnt even be used in ou unless youre trying to be cool or make a meme team around it

Fucking teanbuilding is a pain in the ass
I don't know how assholes like Blaze Latios do it, pumping them all out so fast

File: download-22.jpg (7KB, 259x194px)

7KB, 259x194px

>>32120669
>Gave up OU in gen 5 with shit like genies of the healthy meta
>UU was getting bad in gen 6 so I was only using RU
>They basically made RU UU-lite
>Expect them to throw something like doublade or a mega in NU

>>32134868
Oh lord yes.

I mean, it could have been a good idea in theory, but like everything gen 4 attempted the execution was disastrous. And now we've got this cancer.

>>32134834
you can get it off two tmes usually.

>>32134930
They usually all have glaring flaws. Those types of players make offensively oriented teams so they can lose to x, y, and z but try to pressure the opponent into keeping any threats off the field. Fat balance with a breaker(s) is typically the securest style of team to make but unless you're using the same cores, i.e. not trying to incorporate creative ideas/diverse mons, they take a lot of thought to make.

>>32128021

Rain isn't even the best weather you seething retard.

>>32130616
Absolutely retarded. You have no idea what you are talking about and are just going off memes.

t. Smogon tournament player that has played each OU gen many times.

>>32121092
Yup, that's always been the problem with the 'I want to use my favorites' thing. I can understand that but overall people want to win more than they want to use their faves, so the majority will always end up using the most OP shit they have available at their disposal forcing other people to use the same stuff or have no fun getting crushed over and over. Smogon's tiering is an attempt to try and deal with that by letting weaker faves be used in an environment where they won't be effortlessly pulverized. And they can still be used in higher tiers if people really want to do that.

>>32120906
>t. Faggot

>>32134942
Mega Audino is in XY NU.

>>32130616
>Gen 4
>>smogon debut
Stopped reading there,I should have stopped reading at gen 2 though since it's equally wrong.

>>32134868
Anybody who thinks it was is a fucking retard who doesn't seem to realize how aids Skamory would be if it once again had no physical weaknesses.