>best region >best pokemon designs >best story >best

I agree, but other regions have far better level curves and not everyone likes that new Pokémon are rare and obscure.

I mean neither of those matter to me at all but it seems to be a really big deal to some other people.

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>>32097364
I think you forgot best girl

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>>32097364
>Johto
>best Pokemon designs
>best story
>best characters

>>32097364
>best region

Johto has no identity of its own

>best pokemon designs

Half of them are forgettable and didn't become relevant until their Gen 4 evolutions

>best story

Team Rocket are pathetic as fuck in Gen 2, as in below anime Team Rocket level, that's how bad they are

>best characters

Silver and Eusine are the only memorable ones

>>32097397
And all these things are correct

Why do people care about the story of a game whose antagonists are washed-up former criminals whose own boss abandoned them?

>shit level curve
>most mons are single stage shitmons
>most aren't usable because retarded encounter rates or locked after post-game

>Best Story
>Best Designs
>Best characters
You have to be joking

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>>32097364
They can't, anon. I wish GF still the Gen 2 design philosophy, comfy, nature-filled regions full of simple cutemons are desperately needed.

>Johto feels small and empty, should we add more stuff to it?

>Nah, let's just shove Kanto in there

>>32097364
genwar threads should be a federal offense

>>32097364
>Shit region
>forgettable pokemon designs
>non-existent story
>forgettable characters
>retarded level spike
>worst female protagonist (Lyra)
>2nd worst female protagonist (Kris)
Obviously OP is just baiting, but fuck it I haven't posted on /vp/ for a few days so here's your (you)

>>32097446
>comfy
Alola was a million times more comfy than Kanto 0.5. Don't kid yourself.

tfw jumpluff is a bro in Colosseum and is a shitmon everywhere else

>>32097492
this

>>32098263
no it wasn't

>best story
>team rocket just want find their Giovanni

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>>32097416
>Johto has no identity of its own
It definitely benefits a lot from its contrast with Kanto, but I still think Johto on its own has an identity. It's very rural, very traditional-feeling. With the exception of Goldenrod all the cities are modest, even the port town Olivine (at least directly compared to the more densely-packed Vermillion). A lot of cities in the game are tucked away pretty nicely (Azalea is between a forest and cave, Cianwood requires you to cross the ocean to reach, Mahogany is between two caves with a path to a secluded lake to the north, Blackthorn is between a cave and a huge mountainside that can only be traversed one way), and all the caves and forests and bodies of water make it feel like the treks from town to town don't get a lot of travel. Sometimes there are manmade paths, but oftentimes you're running through grass (not always tall grass but aesthetically, I mean).

Maybe I'm just filling in the blanks with what I like to see since GBC graphics aren't that detailed, but that's how I always viewed Johto.

>>32098263
Maybe I would've found Alola comfy if it let you off the leash for more than five seconds at a time. Other than a few optional areas like that cave you can enter from Melemele Meadow, there's no place you're allowed to just explore without an NPC following you and stopping the flow of the game to spout some bullshit or tug you in the right direction if you go too far off the intended path to the plot. If they were going for "comfy" with Alola they shouldn't've made it feel like an elementary school field trip where you just go from location to location in a group while the teacher lectures you on what you're seeing.

>best region
nah I do love its atmosphere though
>best Pokemon designs
that's Kalos but Johto is pretty good, shame most of them are fucking garbage in battle
>best story
yes
>best characters
most characters throughout the series are basically non-characters, GSC and HGSS are no different, SM despite being the worst game is the only one with solid characterization

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Johto is only so great because it's Kanto 2.0

It came out while Pokemania was still in full-swing and was the first sequel game to the series, so there was already a lot of hype being put into. It added a lot of new features which were great, but that was complimented by the fresh coat of paint put upon what the first game created (As well as still being tied to the first game.) A lot of the new Pokemon introduced were new evolutions to existing ones (which there was nothing wrong with at the time) but even the completely new still felt like the first game since a good handful were originally intended for RBY and it was the original designers who designed the rest.

I can't imagine what Johto would have been like without the ability to go back to Kanto, because without that the game itself has a lot of nice atmosphere and personality, but it's lacking substance on it's own. It's also the only new region who banked on you playing the last game to understand the story and core characters, which is again, probably thanks to Pokemania around the globe.

>>32100673
Kanto is so fucking barren and shallow in Johto games that I don't even bother with it in replays anymore, I just inject eggs of any Kanto-restricted mons I wanna use and stop playing after Lance other than the Tower/Frontier.

And Johto's Pokemon still have a very distinct aesthetic from Kanto, like how every generation has a unique aesthetic to its new Pokemon that still feels like Pokemon, and that includes the cross-gen evos.

>>32097364
That's not Black and White though, Anon.

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>best region
the shittiest next to unova, literally shit version of kanto

>best pokemon designs
which is why they're the most forgotten right?

>best story
who cares about story in pokemon? B/W were better in that regard anyway

>best characters
S/M

Johto's best thing is the main game content

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>>32097416
>Johto has no identity of it's own
retard detected. Traditional Japanese identity is seen in the following places:
Violet City
Ecruteak City
Mahogany own
Ilex Forest

It's a decidedly rural region, with pure starters and home made pokeballs. it's landmarks are things like national parks, caves, ruins and lakes.

It has one of the strongest identites i fact. Too many other regions and especially the newer ones spread themselves too thin.

Gen 2 Rocket got the closest to succeeding outside Team Galactic. Outside the slowpoke area, they were a steap ahead at every instance and only lost because Giovanni decided not to come back.

The story is a natural adventure rather than the later plots that feel too "chosen one" for my tatses

>>32098263
Alola is literally a worse Johto.

I hate how HGSS made Tin Tower into Bell Tower, besides just not being as cool as a name, it loses the parallel it has with Brass Tower

>>32100897
Maybe they did it because "Tin Tower" sounds like "Twin Towers." It wouldn't be the first time they completely changed something in a game to try and avoid offending someone, remember they completely redid the Abandoned Ship as Sea Mauville in ORAS because there was a shipwreck in Japan.

>>32097416
Johto unironically has more identity than most Pokemon regions. Unova is just a clusterfuck, Kalos has no identity outside of Lumiose City and Alola is just DUDE HAWAII LMAO.

>>32100932
>DUDE HAWAII LMAO isn't an identity
you are such an dipshit

>>32100863
>Alola is literally a worse Johto.
Alola is like the antithesis of Johto. It's linear, has an extremely prominent narrative and no dungeons to discover and explore.

>>32100897
Isn't this because Bell Tower was the original name and Tin Tower was a mistranslation?

>>32101251
>no dungeons to discover and explore
good, because all of the "dungeons" sucked ass, the lack of caves in gen 7 was the best thing to happen to the series

>>32101331
No, dungeons and places like Bell Tower or the Abandoned Ship are the most important parts of Pokémon besides the Pokémon themselves.

>>32101340
not him but pokemon dungeons were only good in hoenn, sinnoh, and a few areas in kanto, it's a shame they decided to go so linear in gen 5 and never got back to that level.

Johto dungeons are pretty shitty except for ice cave

>>32101340
>Bell Tower
fuck off underage

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>>32101331
This is the worst post I've read on /vp/ this entire week.

>>32097386
Best girl for sure.

But that level curve really hurts, I still love johto the most.

>>32101342
Between Dark Cave, Mt. Mortar, the extra parts of Union Cave and Slowpoke Well hidden behind Surf, Bell Tower, Whirl Islands, Team Rocket HQ, Ice Path, as well as the updated HGSS versions of Victory Road and Mt. Silver I'd say Johto is second only to Hoenn when it comes to dungeons.

>>32098263
NO

>>32097416
>no identity

lmao, this faggot needs to replay the entire game. Johto is the region with de best (and clear) identity. So japanese, so calm, so old, pure tradition. COMFY af!

>>32101325
The word used could be translated either way due to lack of kanji I believe, with how it looks in HGSS and the Clear Bell, Bell was probably the correct way, but Tin Tower was a great choice anyways if so for it parallels with Brass Tower really well and the two together match the version names.

In the Japanese version maybe it could pass for a double-meaning, but the English version had to go for one or the other. TPCi went with the surface meaning instead of the one with a bit of depth to it that Treehouse did, like how a lot of new dialogue in HGSS is written in an extremely stiff and literal way that sounds nothing like actual spoken English.

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I don't know, I feel Johto is kinda shitty looking back. Been replaying games recently and SS was kind of boring honestly. I wasn't even interested in continueing aftet Lance. Meanwhile I played white as well and had a fucking blast, beat it in three days.

I think what hurts Johto more then anything is the selection and level curve. New pokemon were spread very sparingly and with little thought. Adding new team members is also a hassle since the level scale is stupid as fuck. By the time you're on your way to the E4 your team will probably be in the early-mid 40's, meanwhile trainers are in their early-mid 30's and wild pokemon are in their fucking mid 20's. It makes it brutal to want to add new members since adding one will be a huge time sink.

Still I appreciate how "Japanese" Johto feels. It feels the most inspired by Japanese culture to me.

>>32101384
>>32101325
Also I should note that "Brass Tower" itself probably took liberties--the original word used could've also meant "bell" just like with Tin Tower, as well as a kanji that can mean "metal" or "money", like gold coin, hence "brass" for a golden-looking metal that isn't just outright gold--for the sake of making a stronger parallel with "Tin", a silver-looking metal, and not just having both just be "Bell Tower". I was gonna say TPCi didn't give a fuck and left it as is, since I don't recall seeing it referred to as anything else, but I just loaded up my HG to check and it seems like there's absolutely no mention of the Burned Tower's original name anywhere in Ecruteak in HGSS, unless it can only be heard prior to catching Ho-Oh.

I really don't like HGSS.

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Johto is a game that's fun until you realises it takes you 50 years to grind

I'd enjoy GSC/HGSS a lot more if half the game wasn't knocking out 50 level 20 Pokémon to gain 3 levels

>>32098706
>>32100863
>>32101368
Malie City is what Ecruteak City wishes it could be.

>>32101500
I just replayed the main adventure of Crystal and even replaced a Pokemon at the Radio Tower and still hit the E4 with a full team of 40, which is more than enough to beat Lance, and you should be able to beat Red with a team not even at 60, I know I did last time I played Crystal before this. Never once had to grind, but I did go through most of the optional areas in Johto to fight every Trainer. No promises on HGSS though.

>>32101509
Maile City is lame as fuck. Maile Garden and the literal garbage disposal site to the north of it are cool, though.

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>>32101390
Always liked Gen II for personal reasons, since that's the game where I started to play more in-depth. That said, Pokemon Go made me realise that the new Pokemon introduced in Gen II aren't consisting of entirely new multi-stage lines. There's a whole bunch of single stage mons, and then there's the slew of baby mons added in for the sole fact of promoting the new egg feature. Even the awesome second stages for stuff like Onix and Scyther were also left outside most players grasp if they had no friends to trade with, leaving another part of the pokedex empty.

Johto is super comfy and will always be good to me, but I've stopped defending it in terms of quality since there are several ways it falls short.

On the other hand: travelling into Kanto after the league was dope af, few other gens have matched this level of post game content, holy shit.

>>32101517
>Maile City is lame as fuck.
Absolutely horrendous taste. Malie City has one of the best themes in the entire series.

>>32101517
HGSS might've been a bit worse, I remember hitting Red at like lv. 55 and he's fairly stronk in the remakes

yeah, my playthrough of Crystal atm seems to be a bit better than the Gen IV versions, I probably think they're both the same because I only have vague memories of playing Gen II on my brother's copy and an emulator when I was younger

>>32097416
Low test nu-male detected.

>>32097364
Crystal was the first game ever to make me want to stick my dick inside a legendary pokemon and fuck until she bleeds

How the people can think that Johto have a good story, how??
Also, best designs, well, while i love a lot of them i prefer for example the Hoenn or Alola monsters.
The region, yes, johto is little but very beautiful.

The nostalgia is a heavy factor on people opinions. I love this games but i can recognice his flaws.

>>32101704
>How the people can think that Johto have a good story, how??
Because for some people no story is the best story.

>>32101704
Because there is no real central plot besides the Rocket scenario, which is really an afterthought to the main adventure that remains squarely about the player travelling through the region to challenge the Pokemon League. The only real story elements other than that is background for the setting itself and a few brief, defining actions which make some of the one-dimensional characters still memorable for some. I could go into depth about that, but that's not really what's important about Johto.

Your main drive through the adventure isn't some save the world story or your character becoming entwined with the personal drama of another, but to see places and Pokemon you haven't before, as well as the growth of your own Pokemon, these two elements being the true core of the series that it feels like Game Freak has almost forgotten in recent times. And for people who treasure those elements that made Pokemon so beloved in those halcyon days, Johto offers the richest adventure that still remains true to those aspects above all else.

>>32101704
>Also, best designs, well, while i love a lot of them i prefer for example the Hoenn or Alola monsters.
Johtomons always striked me as the middle ground between Kanto and Hoenn, some of them blend so well people often think they are from either of the two gens (the poor distribution has some blame on that)

Related but between DP and the Johto games which one do you guys think did a worse job at distributing pokémon?

>>32101798
I don't think that new Pokémon being rare and obscure is a bad thing.

It makes the moment when you finally do find them truly special, especially if you've already seen a trainer with one and decided you wanted your own.

Or at least that was how I felt about it back in the GSC days. I'm too jaded to feel those kinds of things now.

>>32101812
I personally disagree with that opinion. I don't think every Pokémon should be easily available, but GSC and SM take things too far, especially the latter since there are only like 50 new Pokémon that aren't starters, Legendaries, or UBs and half of them are ultra-obscure while past-gen shitmons are fucking everywhere. At least with GSC the old Pokémon aren't that old relatively speaking and there's a 2:3 ratio of old-to-new in the complete National Dex.

Still sucks that Pokémon like Houndour, Murkrow, and Larvitar are postgame-only, though. HGSS fixed that by putting some of them in Route 47 and the Safari Zone at least, so you can get them mid-game if you're willing to endure the bullshit that is grabbing specific 'mons from the HGSS Safari though a bad Safari is still better than no Safari, fuck ORAS.

>>32101812
There was a reason for that, GSC was advertised as a direct sequel to gen 1, GF assumed their consumers would already be done with the dex so they made the new mons harder to get to make things more challenging

Of course that was a dumb idea and just made many good johtomons forgettable because nobody could use them

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>>32101824
I need to correct myself, there are actually no new Johto Pokémon in Route 47 or 48, I've been playing too many ROMhacks. Still, you can get all the Kanto-only Johtomons in the Safari except Slugma. Slugma can be gotten before postgame by telling Primo a certain password, but that's even more obscure than finding a Pokémon in the Safari so I don't know how much it helps.

>>32101798
Both are terrible in locking a bunch of things behind post-game altogether, and both are very lacking in availability of certain types prior to post-game. Personal preference doesn't really factor in for me either, since there is an exactly even amount of my favorites among new Pokemon locked away in each. Though at least in Crystal and SS I don't have to worry about version exclusives, while playing any of the Sinnoh games needs me to trade if I wanna assemble my "Dream Team".

>>32101824
I don't really mind SM's encounter tables. Nothing new has only a 1% chance as far as I can recall and just about everything new except Legendaries and Sensu Oricorio can be obtained before the League fine without trading. There's some outright obtuse shit like Toxapex, though.

I've never liked the Safari Game, though ORAS fucked the Hoenn Safari Zone for me in other ways.