Gen 1: >Mewtwo Psychic vs. Voltorb: 188-222 (66.4 - 78.4%)

Anon, Voltorb only survives in gen 1 because SpA and SpD were the same stat

>>31831736
shhh don't spoil his handpicked cherry

>>31831736
>>31831780
His special defense was the same after the split you fucking mongoloids.

>>31831818
>>31831780
>>31831736
Actually, Voltorb's Special Stat is irrelevant because Psystrike calculates damage with the target's Defense.

>>31831701
Why isn't Voltorb using Eviolite?

>>31831860
Because it's just an example of a pokemon that could do something back to an uber before, but can't now.

Since not all pokemon will be able to use eviolite and be fully invested in defenses, even fully evolved ones can eat a hit and drop dead.

>252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo Psystrike vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Decidueye: 305-360 (102 - 120.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Too bad that I'm like one of the ten people who noticed this and think it's worse than what we had.

>>31831701
>Mewtwo switching from Psychic to Psystrike
Psystrike has more base power and hits Voltorb's weaker defense, bro. If anything, all the moves were buffed since there are more to choose from and they generally have better base power. Remember, back n Gen-1 the strongest Fighting type move was Submission, Ghost, Dragon and Bug basically had no worthwhile move at all, Flying's best moves were Fly and Sky Attack ,both of which costed two turns, and Grass types were stuck with either Solarbeam or Razor Leaf for their best move, both of which were kinda bad.

Now we're pampered with stuff like Close Combat, Shadow Ball, Bug Buzz, Outrage, Hurricane, Brave Bird, Leaf Blade and Giga Drain, all of which would've been totally fucking bonkers back in gen-1.

>>31831701
You like stall? You want clefable invested in both defences? You want Mega sableye invested in both defences? You want Quagsires that don't die to a light special breeze?
Yeah, nah, lets stick to the heavy offence bias thanks.

>>31832046
>strongest Fighting type move was Submission


High Jump Kick actually, but it was still only 85 and exclusive to Hitmonlee

>>31833343
I like having fun. There's nothing fun about 6 turn battles where pokemon just trades OHKOs.

>>31836817
That's why you play Stall Master Race and trigger sissypussies.

>>31831701
252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Voltorb: 224-265 (78.8 - 93.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Fuck off retard. This is without Eviolite too.

I honestly feel like the base power of moves and move distribution ruined the game just as much, but if we didn't have stronger moves then every game would be a stallfest like gen 2.


>>31836943
You missed OP's point. It's because of the physical/special split is why Voltorb gets ohko'd instead of being able to do anything.

>>31836943
1 - it's just an example
2 - the split made Psystrike possible and no one uses Psychic on Mewtwo
3 - one of the points was EV distributions. If I were to make that Voltorb offensive, it would be KOed for sure. Apply it to other pokemon.

>>31836880
I'm honestly starting to consider doing that instead of playing Battle Spot.

>>31831701
Are you really arguing that Voltorb should be viable against mewtwo? Besides voltorb should run Focus sash or even eviolite if you want to use it like that.
252+ SpA Life Orb Mewtwo Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Voltorb: 211-250 (74.2 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
then you thunder wave and Voltorb is still faster

>>31831961
Okay, but you're still giving Mewtwo a boost with Life Orb and not giving Voltorb any which seems to hurt your argument.

>>31837015
> If I were to make that Voltorb offensive
Ah yes the offensive Voltorb, key component to no good team ever

>>31837020
>>31837019
IT'S JUST EXAMPLES AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

The point I'm trying to make is that Pokemon are more fragile now than in the GSC days because of the split, new moves to abuse the split and the EV rework (without defense investment, pokemon now have 63 HP and 63 defenses less than GSC)

Taking off Mewtwo's Life Orb would be stupid as no one uses Mewtwo without the Life Orb. Same with Psystrike. But try to get past that - it isn't only those two things makes Mewtwo cross the line between 2HKO and 1HKO.

I hate how I can't express myself sometimes

>>31837052
Okay but that's fine. we have items like Eviolite and Focus Sash and abilities like Prankster and sturdy so frail pokemon can do what they need.

>>31831701
>tries to prove that changes in game mechanics made pokemon substantially squishier than they used to be
>only uses offensive items and strategies, never even mentions the defensive items, abilites, moves, etc.
ITT: Autism and Stupidity, at war with each other.
oh right, fuck. i'm on 4chan.

>>31837052
op is a moron and a jizzrag.

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>>31837052
So, what you're trying to prove, is that a Pokemon with a damage boosting item and a stronger move, is stronger than the same Pokemon with no item and a weaker move?

Wow anon, I NEVER FUCKING KNEW THAT /s.

What are you even trying to say? That the Gen 1 meta was better because battles took longer? Why waste more time doing the same shit? Woohoo, Gen 1 Voltorb survives. What does he do after that? Nothing, death is inevitable. It just leads to the same result. The battles aren't "smarter" just because they take longer.

Fuck this post is stupid. OP, you're stupid. Go to sleep, try again in the morning.

>>31837052
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXm6F-K6Ffo

>voltorb held on using its focus sash
>voltotb used thunder wave

happy now

>>31837172
And then what?
Uses Explode three times?
FFS...

>stupidity: the thread

>>31837149
>/s
hello rebbit

>>31837084
So you go from surviving by default to relying on items and abilities (that have awful distribution)

You're basically proving my point, act smug on it and then call me an autist. Do you lack self awareness?

>>31837149
>Woohoo, Gen 1 Voltorb survives. What does he do after that? Nothing, death is inevitable. It just leads to the same result.

>Voltorb Thunder Waves back and Mewtwo is crippled forever.
>Voltorb Explosion vs. Mewtwo: 139-164 (33.4 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

???????????????

Cripping and dealing damage is the same result as dying and doing NOTHING?

Honestly it feels like I'm talking with walls

>>31837183
What the fuck are you talking about?

>inb4 Autism

>>31837183
No, because Voltorb is faster then mewtwo if it gets paralyze up. So it can explode if it wants.

And yes, a pokeball should not be able to survive the most powerful attack from a clone of the ancestor of all pokemon designed to be the most powerful Pokemon of all

>>31837206
This

>>31837183
>complains about talking walls
>so thick you don't even understand my argument.

So be real; are you trolling or just a complete fucking idiot?
If trolling; well done. Nicely baited.
If not... how in the fuck?

No... no, you have to be a troll. no one is this stupid, or this thick. I went to reply to your message, but it's clear to me now that the republic i believed in no longer functions.

but fuck you, i'll bite.
voltorb can't 'survive by default' if mewtwo isn't using offensive items (read:default), so your first argument is irrelevant, and dumb.
Also what the fuck does distribution have to do with ANYTHING?

Secondly- what are you even trying to argue with that second point?
You do realize explosion KILLS THE USER, right?
How in the fuck does voltorb explode three times?
Even assuming mewtwo is fully paralyzed for three fucking turns, there's no way voltorb could actually kill it by itself.
>Cripping and dealing damage is the same result as dying and doing NOTHING?
what the fuck are you even trying to say here?
either voltorb dies, or it dies doing about 30%.
Are you really so thick you can't see the difference?
FFS, and YOU think you're arguing with a wall...

>Mewtwo gets an item
>Voltorb doesn't

>>31837052
If you're gonna use an example, use one that actually might happen.

>Taking off Mewtwo's Life Orb would be stupid as no one uses Mewtwo without the Life Orb

And who the fug actually uses an itemless Voltorb in Ubers?

>>31837221
This.
But OP will inevitably argue some shite about 'defaults' or the items being rare or some such other bullshit.

>>31837243
>OP tries to argue that 'no one uses Mewtwo without the Life Orb'
>tries to prove point with a set that literally no one would ever use for any reason ever
>'balance'

OP should not breed. We don't need more sub-50 IQ people running around.

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>>31837218
Half of your post was unrelated garbage, and now your whole argument is based on the fucking Voltorb, ignoring the Decidueye, relying on Mewtwo crippling itself for no reason (what Mewtwo doesn't runs Life Orb?) and refusing to see the big picture.

THE POINT ISN'T TO SHOW THAT A VOLTORB COULD KILL A MEWTWO, BUT THAT EVEN THE SHITTIEST POKEMON COULD DO SOMETHING BACK TO AN OFFENSIVE THREAT.

Apply the concept above to every single pokemon in existence, from the shittiest Voltorb to decent fully evolved pokemon. Do you get it now?

>>31837252
>>31837221
>>31837243
Read the above, though I've been saying that through the whole thread so I doubt you'll ever get it.

Either I'm getting trolled hardcore in this thread or you people really are a special kind of stupid.

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>>31837296
Retard

>>31837296
If you give Voltorb Eviolite it survives and cripples Mewtwo with TW.
How is this not "DOING SOMETHING BACK TO AN OFFENSIVE THREAT", you fucking retard?

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>>31837296

>>31837320
So you finally realized that you're wrong? It's ok to be wrong in life, you'll get used to it. At least you're not >>31837325 who insists to be wrong.

>>31837347
Wut?

>>31837347
Are you mentally healthy?

>>31837347
>Voltorb paralyzes Mewtwo but won't kill it
>THE POINT ISN'T TO SHOW THAT A VOLTORB COULD KILL A MEWTWO
Well, it obviously fucking is.
Now call your tard wrangler back so she can type out the next post for you, you dumb sack of fuck.

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> Gen 1 Machamp Submission vs. Snorlax: 270-318 (51.6 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

>Gen 7 252+ Atk Choice Band Machamp Dynamic Punch vs. 188 HP / 144 Def Snorlax: 626-740 (123.2 - 145.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

omg guys op is right. different moves in different gens gave me a different outcome. truly a conspiracy of the HIGHEST order!

>>31837369
>Well, it obviously fucking is.
How did you get that idea? Also, why are you ignoring the next portion of the post? Because it completely invalidates your point?

>>31837372
For argument's sake, I'll keep this short and use your own terms:

>252 SpA Mewtwo Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Voltorb: 270-318 (122.1 - 143.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Before you talk about EVs:
>>31831701
>mfw people are too dumb to realize that gen 3's EVs and gen 4's split made the game even more unbalanced

In this case, EV distribution alone crosses the threshold between OHKO and 2HKO.

You deserve praise for not shitposting one liners and reaction pics, though.

>>31837412
What next portion? The one about Voltorb fighting back? Which it already did by getting a TW off?
252 SpA Life Orb Psystrike your wrists, my man.

>>31837426
>>31831701
>Voltorb dies no matter what and can't do anything back to Mewtwo.
>>31837296
>BUT THAT EVEN THE SHITTIEST POKEMON COULD DO SOMETHING BACK TO AN OFFENSIVE THREAT.
>>31837183
>Cripping and dealing damage is the same result as dying and doing NOTHING?

Consider all those posts and please explain to me how you ever thought that the point in this example was to KILL MEWTWO because it honestly makes no sense. I've never mentioned it even once and kept doubling down on the "Voltorb can leave a mark" point.

>>31837412
>For argument's sake, I'll keep this short and use your own terms:

>252 SpA Mewtwo Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Voltorb: 270-318 (122.1 - 143.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

That's still wrong though.

>252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Voltorb: 165-195 (58 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Well, what do you know...the same result as Gen 1. Alternatively, you could just run a Sash since Psystrike is more popular for Mewtwo and Eviolite Voltorb is still bad.

>>31837482
Your Voltorb needs to be rendered almost unusable (slow and weak) just to survive. That's the point I'm trying to get at. It's not really the same result as gens 1 and 2 where all your EVs can be maxed and you'll survive without needing to "give up" on crucial things that makes your pokemon function (like speed and attack for offensive pokemon).

While Sash helps and can be used by anyone, item clause, Hail and SR makes it a lot unrealiable. Though Assault Vest was a good addition to soften this problem.

>>31837560
>slow and weak
Voltorb is still offensively weak and, compared to Mewtwo, slow. If you wanna complain about anything, complain about how T-Wave, Paralysis and Explosion were all nerfed since Gen 1.

Admittedly, I do kinda see what you're talking about how Natures and EVs can create a type of hyper offensive metagame (I believe that was the case in the Advanced meta back in Gen 3), but note that now we have a lot of ways to neutralize or reduce damage.

>Aurora Veil
>Sandstorm Sp. Def boost for Rock types
>Sap Sipper, Storm Drain, Lightning Rod, Volt Absorb, Levitate, Flash Fire, Dry Skin, Thick Fat, Filter, Solid Rock, Water Absorb abilities to reduce or HEAL from attacks
>Regenerator ability
>Wonder Guard ability (joke about Shedinja all you want, it still completely walls some mon's who don't prepare for it)
>the addition of new types granting new resistances and immunities (Steel, Dark and Fairy)
>Assault Vest, Eviolite and damage reducing berries
>Focus Sash and Sturdy guarantee some mons will ALWAYS get at least one move off (Golem can actually SURVIVE a Surf now and explode or set off Stealth Rocks)

There's probably more too.

OP is an autist but he's right.
the power creep is real.

>>31831860
Why is he using voltorb instead of electrode?

>>31838294
I wanted to use a shitmon. The first page had a thread complaining about pokemon designs with a Voltorb pic so I went with Voltorb.

If I knew people would insist on Voltorb and not apply the scenario to many other average pokemon, I would've used another example.

It sucks that my point got lost due to the lack of foresight.

>>31838228
nice try, op
>>31838328
you can try to pretend to not be a retard all you want, but the reason everyone hated on your points wasn't because
>lack of foresight
it's because
>they're fucking stupid.

>>31838346
You're so hung on hating me that you've become irrational.

>>31838369
no, i've just stopped trying to argue with you as your head is thicker than blood pudding flavored fruit pie.
Nothing I say will change your mind or convince you how much of a fucking moron you are.
I'm content that enough people told you so that you've got about a 5% chance of realizing, tonight- as you're falling asleep- that you're a complete fucking imbecile.
Which is 5% more than you had before you started this tread, so that's something at least.

>>31838328
fucking really opee?
alright, fine, i'll bite.
erase everything else said in this thread, and even forget the voltorb example.

You are attempting to explain why you think EVs/natures/physical-special split made the game
(and i quote)
>"even more unbalanced"

You have one chance.

Go.

>>31838376
You stopped trying to argue because in the face of a problem bigger than you can grasp, you give in to emotion and rely on aggression and mob mentality to "win".

It's a pretty common reaction among simple minded people, especially today that anti intellectualism is on the rise.

>>31838412
>anti intellectualism
>from the op who miraculously forgot to bring a shred of intellect to his thread

maximum over-kek achieved.
thanks, op.
top quality bread

>>31838328
You wanna use a shitmon? Then how about Sableye? It only has 50 more BST than Voltorb and slightly more defenses.

>but Sableye isn't a shitmon
It isn't in the post Gen 1 world. If it came out in Gen 1, it would have been pure Ghost (since Dark did not exist back then) and would have had to use Lick or Night Shade for "offensive Ghost attacks". However, thanks to new changes in the game since Gen 1 (Dark typing, abilities, held items), Sableye not only can take on a mon with almost double its BST, but win instead of fainting just to dent it slightly (which a Mewtwo could just Rest away any way if it wanted).

Strategies have changed in the past 20 years anon. What might have been possible back then like Curselax and Crocune, aren't as good anymore but that doesn't mean other new tricks haven't popped up to replace them.

252+ SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Savage Spin-Out (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Exeggcute on a critical hit: 53488-62928 (445733.3 - 524400%) -- guaranteed OHKO

wtf fucking powercreep

>>31838412
>You stopped trying to argue because in the face of a problem bigger than you can grasp
And you're doing what exactly?
Can you not see that YOU'RE the one being simple minded?
You propose a half baked shower thought-esque proposition with absolutely nothing to back it up, and then argue your point with points that make no sense
>no life orb on a mewtwo is crippling the mewtwo
>no evs no item voltorb is both somehow is NOT crippling, and is also expected to stand toe to toe with one of the most powerful pokemon in the game.
And when multiple people call you out on your stupidity, you retreat behind
>b-but muh mob mentality!
>b-but m-muh emotional responses!
instead of actual arguments, and then you have the audacity to call US simple minded.

this is truly the face of autism

>>31838411
I'll reuse a few points made on this thread:

>without investment, a pokemon's defense, special defense and HP are 63 points lower than GSC

>which means that offensive moves deals a higher average damage than it used to

>coupled with the split, the effectiveness of offense is much higher

>what would be 2HKO in GSC and RBY, now is a probable OHKO

>which means that you're unable to counter attack, be it to use a status move or simply deal damage

>if you invest in defenses to survive, now you're slow and weak and can't properly fullfill your role

What this all means?

>it's better to sac and then revenge kill than switch to counter things
>if you don't have enough power to revenge kill, then you're useless
>speed is more important than ever (people were running Choice Scarf Pheromosa for fucks sake)
>defensive aspects are much less relevant (base 60 and 80 defenses used to be a huge different, now both leads to a OHKO or a 2HKO the same)

The rift between strong and weak pokemon got much bigger due to EV spreads and the split.

>>31838464
Real mature.

ITT:
a multitude of more options at your disposal and hundreds of new strategies to try apparently equals the game being less balanced.

tl;dr- op is literally trying to argue that the first gen is the most balanced.

balanced for mewtwo and tauros, sure.
and there's absolutely nothing wrong with the type chart. psychic seems totally within acceptable range.

>>31837052
>Pokemon are more fragile now
yeah with life orb AND a different fucking move
are you fucking retarded

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>>31831701
>>31831961
>>31832046
>>31837015
>>31837052
>>31837183
>>31837296
>>31837412
>>31837560
>>31838412
You're completely retarded and your shitty arguments are bad, your cherry picked EXAMPLE AAAAAAHH is very bad and missed the point of examples entirely, and you're head is too up your ass to get it

>>31838469
I know this is bait, but i'll keep biting.

>without investment, a pokemon's defense, special defense and HP are 63 points lower than GSC
OR its attack stats are. you have to choose- equating more strategy and more balance to every team build
>which means that offensive moves deals a higher average damage than it used to
Bullshit. Why are you assuming everything has to run attack evs? No everything is a sweeper anon...
>coupled with the split, the effectiveness of offense is much higher
Completely disagree with this point. We've gotten defensive moves (follow me, wide guard), defensive abilities (sturdy, water/volt absorb), and even defensive items (evolite, assault vest, focus sash).
Again- you are focusing only on offensive changes, not how the game has evolved as a whole.
>what would be 2HKO in GSC and RBY, now is a probable OHKO
Bullshit; assuming again.
>which means that you're unable to counter attack, be it to use a status move or simply deal damage
What is prankster. What is sturdy. What are defensive mons like skarmory. Why is stall a viable format is everything just gets one shot now?
>if you invest in defenses to survive, now you're slow and weak and can't properly fullfill your role
I understand your mistake, op.
You seem to be operating under the delusion that the only thing a pokemon can do is attack.
There is plenty else to do with your turn.
I know in your in-game playthroughs, status moves and moves like growl and tail whip seem useless, but if you'd ever played a competitive game of pokemon you'd know that hyper offensive playstyles are one of the least consistent playstyles in terms of winning.

There is more to the game than beating the elite 4, op.

My post got too long, i will respond to your second bit in my next post.

>>31838469
cont'd

>it's better to sac and then revenge kill than switch to counter things
If this is your only answer to things like that, your team sucks and needs to be re-done.
>if you don't have enough power to revenge kill, then you're useless
True, if revenge killing is your only option.
Again with the bad teambuilding (or it's all you have left, which means you made bad battle decisions).
>speed is more important than ever (people were running Choice Scarf Pheromosa for fucks sake)
Speed has always been one of the most important stats? You have not given any reason why that's any worse in later generations.
>defensive aspects are much less relevant (base 60 and 80 defenses used to be a huge different, now both leads to a OHKO or a 2HKO the same)
base 60 and 80 attacks used to be hugely different, too.
As the game evolved, so did the pokemon, and their rules in the game.

tl;dr- you can't only focus on the offensive half of the game and then turn around and say the defensive half isn't there anymore.

and you wonder why people called you stupid.
nice one try, op; but you still failed

>>31836971
Part of power creep, unfortunately. That, and if nothing is done for older generation Pokemon (ex, improving movepools, stats, abilities) to be somewhat better or provide creative options for players to run--as opposed to the previously cancerous CHALK meta--then power creep is going to render them useless and almost not worth existing.

>>31838563
whooo, i wasn't any of the (You)s linked, even though I am pretty much the other half of the thread (been arguing with this fuckhead since almost the beginning).

also
>>31838585
Role* not rule

This is unironically one of the most autistic threads I've ever seen on /vp/

>>31838502
>a multitude of more options at your disposal and hundreds of new strategies to try apparently equals the game being less balanced.

If it doesn't, then how do you explain Smogon's ever increasing ban list?
Most of their bans are due to over centralization.

Of course, EVs and the split aren't the direct cause, but do you deny that they played a role in increasing the gap?

>psychic seems totally within acceptable range.
Actually, what broke psychic was the 30% proc chance as once it's triggered, you're either dead or you rely on a crit to kill.

>>31838568
>OR its attack stats are. you have to choose- equating more strategy and more balance to every team build
There's no such thing. An offensive pokemon HAS to invest in offenses and speed. Compare Salamence's sets in gen 3 with today - before you legit had choice, but after the split? Full on offense.

>Bullshit. Why are you assuming everything has to run attack evs? No everything is a sweeper anon...
Just look at OU and UU. The most used pokemon are offensive ones. Of course, not everything is an offensive sweeper. But Skarmories aren't the ones switching in to Brave Bird everything.

>Completely disagree with this point. We've gotten defensive moves (follow me, wide guard), defensive abilities (sturdy, water/volt absorb), and even defensive items (evolite, assault vest, focus sash).
Again- you are focusing only on offensive changes, not how the game has evolved as a whole.
The problem with those abilities and moves is that are heavily matchup based. As I said in another post, you go from "surviving by default" to "dying if you don't have x thing" - isn't this a recipe for unbalance?

Look at VGC17 and VGC15. The most popular pokemon in both has Intimidate and excellent stats. What that says to a weaker one that lacks Intimidate? "You'll be outsped and die in one hit"

>Bullshit; assuming again.
Just go into the calc and play around.

>What is prankster. What is sturdy. What are defensive mons like skarmory. Why is stall a viable format is everything just gets one shot now?
Actually, if you've been following competitive, stall has been reduced to a staple of the same 7 or so pokemon, and it's only being kept alive thanks to Dugtrio, who... guess what, is an offensive pokemon.
Meanwhile, balance is basically dead.

>but if you'd ever played a competitive game of pokemon you'd know that hyper offensive playstyles are one of the least consistent playstyles in terms of winning.
It's dishonest say that on a gen where most teams on the ladder are HO.

>>31838654
at least you seem to be talking a bit more rationally now.

>If it doesn't, then how do you explain Smogon's ever increasing ban list?
Most of their bans are due to over centralization.
If smogon existed in gen 1- do you honestly think tauros wouldn't have been banned? The problem, as you say, is overcentralization.
Of course EVs and the split had a hand in that- there is literally no way to argue otherwise- but i will argue all day long that they had any more of an impact than any of the following:
>new pokemon, items, abilites, moves, megas, z moves, weather, terrain, trick room, etc etc etc etc. Hell- even doubles drastically changed how everything worked, for people who cared about it (and since vgc is pushing it, a lot of people do).
Literally every single gen has changed the balance of the game, some of it for good, some of it not.
But every single generation has a couple things (as low as two, as high as a dozen or so) that just fuck up any other thing in that generation.
Every single generation has things that centralizing.

I vehemently disagree with your initial point that EVs and the split are (one of) the biggest change(s) to the overall balance of the game.

We just got caught up in arguing about other things so we never got around to actually arguing the point we were trying to make. ;p

>psychic seems totally within acceptable range.
I meant the type, not the move. My bad for not clarifying.
Due to a glitch in the code, bug doesn't actually super effective it like it should, which means the only move the type psychic is weak to in gen one is Lick (because the only other attacking ghost move is night shade).
That is not balanced at al!

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>>31838563
If you're so retarded that you get upset over people's opinions, quit the thread. No one is forcing you to read it. Grow the fuck up.

>>31838732
>waaaah just don't read the thread if you don't like it

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>>31838732
Anon you're spouting logical fallacies as fact and now you're calling it an opinion


You're fucking retarded

>>31838685
well forget the rational comment in my last post.

>point A
Salamence, sure. Celesteela? Chansey? Swampert? Gardevoir? You're still picking things only to prove your point and ignoring the rest. Yes- salamence is a fantastic example of hyper offense. I keep seeming to have to say it: OFFENSIVE POKEMON AREN'T THE ONLY ONES THAT ARE GOOD
>Just look at OU and UU.
H...h-have you? Literally OU is currently in a suspect test because stall is dominating the format... what rock are you under?
>you go from "surviving by default" to "dying if you don't have x thing"
but that's not it at all. you're still missing the fucking point. In gen 1- literally the only strategy in the game was to attack, and hope your attack hit first. If you happened to be bulky enough to survive, rest and repeat. Now there's nuance. You don't have to play literally every single pokemon like that anymore. It's not 'dying if you don't have x thing' it's 'you're a fucking moron if all you bring to a fight is six attackers'.
>Look at VGC17 and VGC15.
you ARE living under a rock. garchomp is on top at the moment, and more people are running bulky arcanine currently anyway, with morning sun and a sitrus berry, or they're running scarf.
Also- if you look at the rest of the top usage in both vgcs you mentioned, most of the things there are incapable of killing most things in one hit (barring z moves or specs/band or 4x weakness, obviously) because most everyone brings at least a couple bulky pokemon, like a well built team, you know, SHOULD have...
>Just go into the calc and play around.
it's funny, cause i am rarely out of it...
I think you should, and also remember that defensive pokemon / evs / spreads exist, dude.
>Actually, if you've been following competitive *snip*
You..... just don't understand anything, do you?
Balance is dead? What?
>It's dishonest say that on a gen where most teams on the ladder are HO.
Ah, there it is. Clearly you've never gotten above 1150 elo. This explains so much.

>>31838685

I literally don't understand what you're trying to argue here. Going to break it down bit by bit.
>Just look at OU and UU.
ok
>The most used pokemon are offensive ones.
Arguable. OU has Toxapex, Ferrothorn, Celesteela, & Chansey all near the top.
>Of course, not everything is an offensive sweeper.
Good, good.
>But Skarmories aren't the ones switching in to Brave Bird everything.
rrrrrrrright...
Meaning they're defensive skarmories? (skarmorys? skarmori?)
Meaning that defensive pokemon are as popular or used as much as offensive mon?

You do understand you're shooting yourself in the foot with this point, right?
You've been using mewtwo and salamence as examples before this, but then turn around and shamefacedly say that skarmory don't run offensive sets?
THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD IS TRYING TO GET THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL!

>Why would you run offensive skarmory or chansey?
>Why would you run defensive salamence or mewtwo?

How can you not see how fucking dumb you are?

>>31837296
>BUT THAT EVEN THE SHITTIEST POKEMON COULD DO SOMETHING BACK TO AN OFFENSIVE THREAT
Then why didn't you use farfetch'd?

>>31838685
>Not running event wish-Salamence as a defensive wall with itimidate support.

Total pleb

>>31839150
>>31839043
>>31838887
guys he left.
went to sleep or killed himself or something.
we won.

>>31840057
>won
Wut?

File: tumblr_nnvy49OTMC1titub2o1_400.jpg (38KB, 400x388px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 400x388px

>>31840057
I got banned forever for posting porn of a mod's waifus.

Can't make more threads to humiliate you guys. Sorry.