http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread s/endless-battle-issues.

>stallgon
What do you think?

>play stall
>complain about stall
you wanted this shit, now deal with it

>>31813047
good to know you're still completely retarded

>has no wincon on his stall team
>is suprised to have a hard time against stall

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>>31813027
>play a passive, purely reactive team with barely any offensive presence
>start switching endlessly
>WOOOOOOOOW WHY IS THE BATTLE NOT ENDING
nu-smogon is an endless source of keks

>smogoncucks still going through all these simulator complications when endless battles don't happen on the real game

>>31813116
this
its like they expect smogon and showdown to retard proof the meta so they can play and build teams mindlessly like morons with the downs

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>>31813027

Shame they're finally doing it. Stallfags definitively deserve to feel what we feel.

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fucking zarel lel

>>31813027
>stall players complaining about having to fight stall
Gee it's almost as if a completely passive playstyle that doesn't interact with the opponent is a very bad idea to have be part of a metagame.

>>31813506

No it's not. If stall wasn't a thing many Pokemon would be invalidated and all we would have is brainless Hyper Offense everywhere. Games would be decided primarily by matchup and luck (even more so than it currently is). Teams would almost all be the same and OU would have like 10-15 Pokemon.

>>31813398
Wouldn't a turn limit help stall?

>>31813534
Yes, that's the problem.

>>31813524
>If stall wasn't a thing many Pokemon would be invalidated
These Pokemon were cancerous anyway. Good riddance.

>>31813553

I'm not just talking about Stallmons. Powerful wallbreakers and other Pokemon with good matchup against stall suddenly have little reason to be used on a team when every Pokemon that gets usage will be faster than it and can kill them before they get a hit off.

>>31813561
What a shame. But sacrifices has to be made for the greater good. You call it awful and something that must be avoided, I call it a necessary evil.

>>31813569

I see your point, but the whole purpose of Smogon is to provide a competitive meta where as many Pokemon as possible are viable.

That's why they have the tiering system, and why overcentralizing Pokemon are often banned, while not necessarily being outright broken.

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>144 turns no kills
>no need to fix

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Based Zarel.

Why don't all the babbies who cry about stall just put a Pokemon on their team that beats it?

Here I'll even help you:

>Choice Band Tyranitar
>Magma Storm Heatran
>Life Orb Kyurem-Black
>Hoopa-Unbound

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It's a younger, less experienced group of people in charge of stuff like this now. I trust that their solution to this endless battle problem will work, but we shouldn't have this situation in the first place.

>>31813662

That's a little too hard for /vp/ to get their heads around.

>>31813398
>>31813618
classic zarel "wow I was right the whole time but nobody listened to me please respect me" post

>>31813662
All those 'mons are ass tho..

>>31813662
Not having a wincon against Stall isn't the problem, it's that the other player is forced to play high risk low reward with Stall playing the opposite.

>>31813696
He usually is right.
And nobody listens to him.

>>31813707

Stall is only low risk if the opponent is too retarded to have a Pokemon that beats stall.

>>31813662

>using pseudos and legendaries

>>31813710
half of his posts in the policy subforum are him talking about shit like he actually plays the game and then goes and cries about how nobody respects him when people tell him he's wrong lol

>>31813716
Stall might have to make a read every time a stallbreaker comes in safely, and stall isn't exactly aching for free turns.. The magma storm Tran you recommended loses 1v1 to Chansey and Pex even if it has earth power btw

>>31813662
Surely you can use something more flexible than these unwieldy sledgehammers

>>31813745

Are you sure? I think Magma Storm->Taunt->Earth Power is enough.

>>31813662
>when dugtrio removes all 4 of these

>>31813792

>When Dugtrio is currently banned and is about to get BTFO into ubers because it removes them

>>31813785
It might be for Toxapex, but Chansey can out-damage Heatran with Seismic Toss.

>>31813815

True, Heatran does struggle to beat Chansey, but at the very least it can play around it with Taunt and make use of free switches into things that scare Chansey out.

>>31813833
True but whatever is coming in would take a Seismic Toss to the face and for most Pokemon, having 100 hp chipped off is less than ideal. And that's not even mentioning if there's entry hazards out to make the chip damage worse.

>>31813662

>Tyranitar
Just switch to Skarmory lmao

>Heatran
Just switch to Chansey lmao

There should me a 1 hour time limit for battlea tbqh.
Stall is healtht and if you don't like it, don't run mindless shit like HO or unbalanced shit teams.

>>31813858
>Skarmory
>Chansey
Will my boy Infernape finally make a return?

>>31813888
>Squirtle used Water Gun!

>>31813888

Unfortunately it doesn't have much to touch Toxapex. I guess a set of SD, Flare Blitz, CC, Earthquake could work though.

>>31813858
Magma storm taunt says hi

>>31813662
>Just use X Pokemon(s) to beat our stall teams lol
>What do you mean I have to use Y in order to beat Z? Z should just be banned because it ruins Stall. And don't you dare tell me to use predictions in order to beat W, which should also be banned.

Like
Fucking
Clockwork

>>31813858

Only the bulkiest of Skarmory can take on TTar. Even then they have to hope that it misses before it crits.

>>31813928

Only "Z" I can think of is Landorus, which also shredded many offense teams as well.

>>31813524>
>Balance and Bulky offense don't exist
>Acting like Stall isn't just as brainless or even brainless than HO

Wow bro, switching out repeatedly in reaction to the opponent with a passive, reactive playstyle must take so much skill, effort, and brains

>>31813901
>The Passho Berry reduced damage taken from Water Gun!

>>31813902
While it COULD take out any Toxapex with a +2 EQ after rocks damage, I was thinking of more of a general all-out kind of set to catch things by surprise

>>31813943
Stall has more options than just to click Recover.
Meanwhile HO shitters just spam Close Combat or switch.

>>31813027

The stupid thing about this is, we have a way to deal with this. It's called entry hazards. It is a lot harder to do that switch dance when the sneaky pebbles keep deleting 1/4 of your Zapdos every time.

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>people take 6v6 singles seriously
why, this is the only format in the game that manages to be both noncompetitive and not fun, there is pretty much 0 reasons to play it

>>31813981

Because VGC is even less competitive and fun.

>>31813981
Back to your dead general

>>31813989
>less competitive
>when it is the format used for competitions
you're not very smart are you ?
>not fun
>dynamic fast paced battles
>less fun than endless switching simulator

>>31813943
>>Acting like Stall isn't just as brainless or even brainless than HO

Are you telling me that clicking the move that is super effective is a complex thought process?

>>31813858
>TTar
Just switch to pex now. If they edge switch to Quag, if they crunch Baneful or fish for a burn.

>>31813981
>noncompetitive
It's totally not competitive, it's just that one person wins and the other loses. A clear contradiction with what competitive means. The only nonfun part about OU is stall, which I'd take any day over VGC where the only important play is your leads.

>>31814007
Are you telling me you don't know how to read? Because I didn't say anything like that or even imply that HO is complex.

>>31814007
>Are you telling me that clicking the move that is super effective is a complex thought process?
This is exactly what shitters who shit on stall think.
Without Dugtrio these dummies will still struggle and complain about Chansey and Regenerator.

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>>31814010
>baneful

>>31813967
>Stall has more options than just to click Recover
Like? Other than variants of Recover and Passive damaging.

>>31814010

Toxapex is not a Tar counter lmao.

If the opponent has a Quag, then doubling into something that beats it is a very easy play. It's not like the stall player is going to try anything fancy.

Toxapex shouldn't be running Baneful Bunker and if your best answer to Tar is to hope for a burn then you may as well give up. What if you don't burn, or Tar gets a Defense drop or crit? The odds are easily in its favour.

Without Duggy, Tar violates stall very badly.

>>31813524
>If stall wasn't a thing many Pokemon would be invalidated and all we would have is brainless Hyper Offense everywhere.

Pheromosa and Scarf Lele eat hyper offense for breakfast, so nope.

>>31814038
Not if Diggi's around to stop him.

HO-babbies are the most retarded members of the fanbase, I swear.

They must have the attention span of a goldfish to not want to play battles that last longer than 10 turns.

>>31814026
You do know that Pex run Baneful for more lefties recovery right? Or do you think people run Haze on Stall with Unaware mons in the back?

>>31814038
It's not a counter, you use Pex to scout their move because you get free Regen. Doubling doesn't accomplish much because Stall can still reverse tempo on any mon that isn't TTar. The TTar user usually only has one play that can give them any kind of reward, and even dumbass ladder players can figure it out.

>>31814060
use regular protect, then. you don't want to hit people with shitty poison.

>>31814057
Some people have a life and don't like battles that take half and hour senpai

>>31814060
>Not using SD Bulu, the supreme stallbreaker

The nigger 6-0's literally every variant of stall.

>>31814072
Do you know what you're talking about? The goal is rarely ever to Poison with Baneful, and if you do that's extremely beneficial to the Stall player. Stall can heal away any damage, the other player cannot. Small chip damage like normal poison is extremely beneficial, especially when it puts the only threat to your team on a timer.

>>31813902
>>31813965
What about Groundium Z?
252 Atk Infernape Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Toxapex: 182-216 (59.8 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252 Atk Infernape Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Toxapex: 362-428 (119 - 140.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

>>31814006
>Being used in "competitions" means it's more competitive
VGC is retarded and filled with corruption. If a person isn't cheating by looking at other people's teams, they are just using copy&paste teams.
VGC really just comes down to luck in the end with how similar the skills between players and their teams are. If VGC fixed several of its awful rules so that it comes down to honest skill and creativity, instead of luck, it would be competitive.

>>31814106
You would eat a scald and then it would switch to either Quaggy or Skarm

>>31814106

I guess that works well, but you miss out on KOing Zapdos, and still get walled by Quag. Could be good though.

>>31814129

You set up the SD on Sableye, which can't do a thing to you.

>>31814057
>last longer than 100 turns with no Pokémon fainted.*
fify

>>31814149
>100 turns is a lot
Found the ADD kid.

>>31814149
Thanks for proving my point.

>>31814118
How is the luck element VGC's fault? That's the game's fault for being so shit. Also, this format has tons of varied teams and options, not sure what you're talking about, unless you're still stuck in 2016.

>>31814153
>>31814158
100 turns with no progress in the battle is a lot of turns.

>>31814186
It's progess for me, the stall player.
If you don't like it, build a better team.

>>31814186

>fainted Pokemon is the only sign of progress.

Retarded 10 year old confirmed.

>>31814129
>Skarm
Skarm really does not want to eat a +2 Flare Blitz
>Quag
This is a problem for it, but it's not totally unheard of for Infernape to run Grass Knot. While I'm fully aware that it doesn't have room for it on this particular set, there's still the possibility that the threat of it would make them a little nervous about sending Quag in on it before it reveals what it's running.

>>31814103
>The goal is rarely ever to Poison with Baneful
Then why the fuck waste a moveslot on it?

>>31814211
>>31814060
>You do know that Pex run Baneful for more lefties recovery right

>>31814219
>needing more leftovers when you have recover and regenerator
low ladder trash

>>31814238
Seriously, people with a rating under at LEAST 1900 shouldn't be allowed to post on this board.

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This kind of garbage is exactly what's wrong with Smogon

>still living under a rock thinking Gamefreak does not support or "understand" competitive play
>calling the game design bad because it doesn't suit their irrelvant simulator
>calling Gamefreak's timer arbitrary when that's what they decided should be the limit for a Pokemon match
>calling their banlist arbitary when it follows a consistent system while Smogon's is the one that's a clusterfuck

>>31814238
I too like losing 1v1 to Tran because I run fucking Haze on my pex even though I have Clef/Quag in the back.

>>31814251
>being a gamefreak apologist

>>31814179
>How is the luck element VGC's fault?
Because the teams end up being way too similar. Having an Arcanine and Tapu Koko fight an Arcanine and Tapu Koko is pretty much who wins the speed ties at that point or gets a crit.

If VGC allowed its players to experiment, situations like that happen way less. It baffles me how they allowed Primals and Mega Mom, but don't allow Transfered Pokemon.

>>31814254
yup you're low ldder trash

>>31814272
Cracking 1300 doesn't mean you're high ladder

>>31814207
I agree that you could bluff grass knot for a turn, but it really depends on if the other player calls your bluff. Of they bitems, you could probably kill their chansey with a +2 CC. But even then, you've basically revealed that you don't have the tools to deal with quagsire

>>31814264
>apologist
??

did you just pick a buzzword out of a hat?

>>31814266
In defense of VGC, the diversity is in what you don't see; even mirror matches may be running minute differences in EVs or different natures and attacks to get a leg up on specific threats

>>31814330
Wow so diverse.

>>31814283
Not necessarily. It's Tectonic Rage on pex that you want to catch them off guard with. So ideally, you would want to ruse them into thinking, or at least worrying about the possibility that you might have something like FB/CC/GK/SD. Even if they realize Quag is safe and bring it in, if it's taken out Pex or Chansey then it's put in more than enough work already.

>>31814266
Speedties in VGC 17 aren't even that common and if two max speed Pokemon like that are on the same team, usually both sides will not risk it and play conservatively. Speed ties usually only become match deciding on the rare occasions they've both left in a 1v1.

>>31814341
Well, that's what happens when the meta is limited to a very small handful of Pokemon. There's your diversity.

>>31814461
>very small handful
>pretending vgc 15 didn't happen

>>31814404
Addendum to this.
I didn't think about physically defensive Clefable. That can switch in safely and shut it down pretty reliably.

>>31813741
truth

>>31814279
Not him but it does. Anything past 1100 is high ladder.

>>31813696
Zarel is a meme.

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>>31814266
Why do you talk like you know what you're talking about when you literally don't? Speedties are not common, and Koko Arcanine mirrors almost never happen.

Imagine that I complain about how shitty Smogon's OU is just because the last time I peeked at it, more than a year ago, the Choice Banded Weavile stall team was everywhere, and used that as my only way of shitting on Smogon. You're doing the exact same thing here, except you're using past formats to shit on VGC.

VGC17 allows its players to experiment as much as they want, that's why things like pic related can win stuff, as well as other gimmicks like Eeveeboost and Oricorio Dancer teams.

>>31814507
>le chalk meme

Okay, I've lost enough time with you, but as a last thing: 15 was by far one of the most diverse formats. Just because the Japs got lucky on worlds to get to top 8 due to the retarded tournament structure (literally praying to the RNG that your resistance isn't shit thanks to players worse than you) and used the same team, which by the way, was made specifically to shit on the western meta, doesn't mean the entire format was like that.

>>31814581
>Win two games in a row
>Welcome to the high ladder! :^)
Not him but I thought this was fucking hilarious

>>31814251
>when it follows a consistent system
They banned Phione but allowed the Weather Trio

>>31814251

>irrelvant

It's more popular than VGC lmao. Gamefreak literally got cucked at their own game

>>31814628
>shitters didn't use the same pokemon, that means the meta is diverse
Is this what vgc memers actually believe?

>>31814692
>different pokemon
>they do the same shit

It's diverse, guys.

>>31814677
Phione is a mythical, which are all banned

>>31814692
What's diversity to you, then?

>>31814696
They don't though.

>>31814677
They consistently banned all mythicals

>>31814722
This, and because of availability. What if you don't have a Gamestop nearby and miss a good Mythical event? You're out of luck - since they, you know, don't expect you to cheat - and at an inmediate disadvantage. They don't ban shit because of how strong they are.

>>31814690

>It's more popular than VGC

Dumbest thing ive heard all day

>>31813116
>durr let's make sub-optimal plays that'll lose the game just so it won't last forever!!

Might as well forfeit, it's faster and more dignified

>>31814690
Showdown's popular because it's free and thus attracts loads of poorfags and casuals, doesn't mean it's relevant

>>31814778
There's almost always over 10000 people on smogon at any given time.
Who the fuck plays vgc?

>>31814817
This just shows you don't know the meaning of the word relevant, Pedro.

>>31814817

Smogon was popular before Showdown you retard, and how does that mean it's not relevant?

>>31813524
>Stall is less brainless than HO
>Implying stall is less brainless than anything

Good one, anon

>>31814836
Not an argument.

>>31814801
>doing literally nothing until your opponent has to go to sleep is the optimal play
What a fun and healthy meta.

>>31814759
That sounds extremely unhealthy for a metagame. Would be like removing stairs because a cripple can't get up them, instead of just making a ramp for the cripple. This just justifies injecting Pokemon or just playing competitive on simulators even more.

>>31814819
You know lots of VGC players use Showdown too, right? You know Japan, a huge portion of the competitive playerbase, doesn't play Showdown/Smogon?

>>31814819
Who the fuck plays vgc?
The Japs and Koreans.

>>31814866
>You know lots of VGC players use Showdown too, right?
You're proving how relevant Showdown is...

>>31814865
yes that's exactly why GF bans them

>>31814875
>tiny dying countries
heh

>>31814817
YouTube is popular because it's free and thus attracts loads of poorfags and casual, doesn't mean it's relevant.

>>31814817

Now THIS, is the dumbest thing I've seen all day.

>>31814759
This ban is retarded and it is completly artificial. I can understand it in the old days but it makes no sense to not distribute Mystics via Mystery Gift every now and then. Hell, they could do what they did with Magearna and put a QR code that generates it.

>>31814927
Well, that's Gamefreak for you. We live in an age where fucking everyone has access to WiFi, but they still refuse to acknowledge it and distribute events with limited serial codes.

>>31814880
That post was comparing Smogon/VGC, not Showdown specifically

>>31814912
That's a very dumb analogy for many reasons

>>31814884
And they shouldn't. What GF should do is just make Stadium 3 where you can build a team of all the combinations of Pokemon that are possible in the main games. So many problems with VGC are now all solved and on top of that, the main games can focus more on being an RPG instead of a complex team builder.

>>31814817
>Showdown's popular because it's free
then who did i give my $60 to you fucking liar

Why are VGCfags so obnoxious? Any time there's a thread about anything smogon or even competitive singles in general, they come pouring in and shitposting about how 6v6 is a fake/meme format and how much better VGC is like man people who play singles don't go into the VGC threads and shit all over everyone, why do you have to?

>>31814927
>>31814949
The whole point of mythicals is to be rare dipshits. Regularly distributing them all the time for the sake of competitive battles would ruin the point, which is why it makes more sense to restrict them.

>>31814996
>tfw used to make money on showdown by offering lessons
Not a lot, but I got mine.

>>31814997
Nobody said 6v6 is shit compared to VGC though. People come here defending VGC because, as soon as someone complains about Smogon, they attack them thinking they play VGC when most of the time they don't give a fuck, and then start attacking the format using outdated arguments, so people come to refute said arguments.

>>31815021
What rank were you? How much? Seems profitable.

>>31814997
Most of /vp/ doesn't even play VGC. They just use it to shitpost.

>>31814997
>implying vice versa doesn't happen with VGC threads
nice bias

Thank lord I left PS lmao.

>>31813981
It might be shit but the alternatives are even shittier so..
Also it became shit around bw, pre gen-5 OU was good.

Can't we just raid Showdown, find all the stall players during a match and harass them to no end?

>>31815224
Yes, but only after Garchomp was banned.

>>31815224
>>31815255
It became a stall shitshow after Mence was banned.

>There are people in this thread discussing over which is better, Smogon OU or VGC.
>Not playing the superior Doubles OU.
All the advantages of doubles, without the nonsense of VGC. Perfect.

>>31815250
>Moderated chat has been set to +!

>>31815261
cuck

>>31815257
If by stallfest you mean "Games lasted more than 6 turns because mence didn't ravage its way through the entire enemy team", then yes.

>>31814238
>>31814248
>hurr durr muh elo ad hominem
Sure posting biased shit are great counter-arguments, gratz.

>>31814251
It's not wrong though
Every VGC and BS clause is pretty much bs and makes the game even more unfunny

>>31815269
then we just use our nicknames to spam the chat

>It's another Stallfag vs HOfag argue while calling each other skill-less and pretending Pokemon takes skill episode.

>>31815325
>modjoin

>>31815308
Sub 1000 shitter detected

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>>31814696
kek

Jack bond CE is actually really fucking good but the thought of grinding for it is dreadful

>>31815382
kek I'm 1900 but I can argue about what's wrong in some low elo player's speech, not limiting myself in ad hominems.
Feels good to being master race, cya 1500 fucker

>>31815398
Dumb malemaster

>>31814860
>doing literally nothing
This is how you know that someone doesn't knows wtf they're talkingabout.

>>31815402
Oh, yeah? Well I'm 3000!!!

>>31815417
Then enlighten me senpai, what is accomplished by 100+ turns of double switching?

>>31815417
You're right. Constantly healing yourself is doing something.

>>31815402
Master race doesn't start until you're top 5 in OU.

>>31815435
>Top 5
More like Top Kek. Try ranked 1st and higher in 3 different ladders low ladder shitter.

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>>31815456
>Not having been number 1 in every meta since R/B/Y, including OMs and playground CAP

>>31815456
>different ladders
Literally only OU matters.
It's the one with the most competition.
UU and Uber cucks are just wasting their time accomplishing nothing. Better to be top 10 in OU than number one in UU.