This becomes the main cast of Best Wishes How does Best

>>31702232
The anime would never use the male protagonist and Cilan was fine.

>>31702232
So what would they do? What would be their motivation, which pokemon would they get, what kind of personality would they have?

What can they offer over Cilan and Iris?

If only people used their heads before starting stupid threads

File: PokemonThunder.png (384KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

384KB, 640x480px

>>31702250
I never said Cilan wasn't. I just said "WHat would change if this was the main cast"

For example, if the main cast had a trainer with Oshawott and Tepig, that would mean Ash would only need to get Snivy, which would let it get more focus from him.

File: Why.png (33KB, 182x192px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 182x192px

>>31702250
>Cilan was fine

File: 87885ef608a77929bfcedadc9e7212fe.jpg (139KB, 707x1000px) Image search: [Google]

139KB, 707x1000px

>>31702232
The main problem of BW is Ash.

Replace Ash with a new character and you got an okay pokemon anime about a clueless newby who keeps getting his shit kicked it until he prevails, in typical anime fashion.

Ash suddenly returning to episode 1&2 levels of competence made no sense at all.

>>31702271
>What can they offer over Cilan and Iris?
Assuming the Plasma arc never got canceled? A relationship with N? Maybe have Hilbert get Reshiram or Zekrom? See how the anime would balance two/three people in the main cast who collect badges? More involved with Bianca and Cheren? No need for Trip?

A lot of possibilities. Those are just obvious stuff off of the top of my head.

>>31702308
Alternatively, let Ash stay competent, and have the other newbie see him as a mentor figure? Would let them keep Ash, whom can't be replaced due to popularity, and that opportunity to replace having long passed.

A cast like this also works because of BW's fondness for tournament arcs.

>>31702310
>pokemon series that retells the game's story but with anime logic
>like pokemon origins but better
I can see it now, why aren't we protesting to remove Ash?

>>31702308
That's the main problem with the entire anime. Anything that runs that long with the same main character is bound to get stale, and Ash is no exception. While I'm not a fan of Pokespe, what they did in regards to the protagonists is way better than the anime. This is also why JoJo is so good.

>>31702310
>Hilbert
>not Hilda

>>31702333
Nice trips and sure. Isn't this exactly what they did in DP and why DP worked?

Ash was mentoring Dawn, who aside from being a girly-girl, has a very similar personality as him.

Dawn was basically a nooby and less experienced Ash (who had a different career focus than him, contests and stuff) and they played off of each other the best, I would argue.

Certainly better than Ash and May, who acted more like acquaintances than friends (Advanced was basically just May doing her contest things while Ash fucks around doing his own shit and vice-versa, while in DP contests, he actually bothered to watch them all)
and Ash and Iris (who was basically just shitting on him 24/7).

>>31702433
I'd say its less that, and more something else. If the Kalos League taught us anything, its that the execs don't want to take certain risks or upset the status quo in certain ways, despite the staffs wishes.

Hell, look at BW. It was actually fairly ambitios early on. It set out to re-imagine Jessie and James, and was doing well. But after the Plasma arc got canned, they reverted because some didn't like that.

>>31702310
>See how the anime would balance two/three people in the main cast who collect badges?
You know this would end badly.

>Assuming the Plasma arc never got canceled? A relationship with N? Maybe have Hilbert get Reshiram or Zekrom?
Nothing Ash couldn't do.

>More involved with Bianca and Cheren? No need for Trip?
You yourself know that Trip and Georgia took their roles. Just having Bianca and Cheren be there wouldn't make it automatically better.

All those possibilities could've been done with Iris and Cilan. In fact, their possibilities were much higher due to them not being player surrogates - who always have the same objective (conquer the league, which is supposed to be Ash's role).

>>31702449
Hilbert is provably more popular than Hilda.

>>31702485
Moreover, lets say Hilbert traveled with Ash, and saw him as a mentor, this could make an interesting dynamic since, unlike Dawn, Hilbert could have the same goals, and could make for a good League battle, where Hilbert could want to show Ash what hes learned from traveling with him. Certainly better than Trip, or god forbid, Cameron.

>>31702232
Okay but whose dick is Hilda lusting after

>>31702573
>Rival traveling WITH Ash
Bad. Very bad.

>Unova Ash being a mentor
>Unova Ash
>a mentor

>>31702597
Unova Ash obviously has to be replaced with Sinnoh Ash for anything to work.

File: 1426874_1413934049649_full.jpg (155KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

155KB, 600x600px

>>31702591
N. Let him bond with all three, Ash, Hilbert and Hilda in different ways.
Leave Hilbert for Bianca

>>31702271
Maybe they won't include Hilbert, and it'll just be Hilda and Ash.

Hilda has no known possible canon goal aside from Gym badges. Any suggestions on what else she could do?

>>31702573
>having two main cast characters going after gym badges
that's fucking retarded.
there's a reason misty did fuck all in the original series, and may/dawn went after contest ribbons.

File: IMG_3629.jpg (30KB, 451x449px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 451x449px

>>31702613
>Making up a completely different series just to force your terrible ship

>>31702653
Might work better.
>Hilbert and Hilda as siblings
>Hilda travels with Ash instead of Iris
>Hilbert is a main character but doesn't travel with Ash
>Ash and Hilbert rivalry
>Cheren and Bianca as frequent recurring characters

This would work better

File: IMG_3483.jpg (29KB, 342x192px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 342x192px

>>31702712
>>31702653
So basically you're insisting that it would be better to have Hilda than Iris but you have no idea what to do with her.

Here's a radical idea: why not just make Iris less of a bitch? Problem solved.

File: Follow me.jpg (100KB, 885x669px) Image search: [Google]

100KB, 885x669px

>>31702232
>Black gets killed off before any of the BW2 in best wishes can happen

>>31702744
I never said I wouldn't have an idea what to do with. Theres BW gimmicks like Musicals, for example.
Besides, the anime staff had no idea what to do with Iris, other than make her Misty 2.0

File: IMG_3382.png (31KB, 104x134px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 104x134px

>>31702780
So now Hilda is either Misty 2.0 herself or May 3.0/Serena 0.5.
Congratulations, dipwad! You've made such a revolutionary female character for the Pokémon anime.

>>31702744
That's how bad Iris was.

A mystery box that could be anything would be better than Iris. There's nowhere to go but up.

>>31702839
Then why not think of something, dumbass?
You know, anything that doesn't make her a literal cardboard cutout?
Goals?
Personality?
Fuck, just make up a team for god's sake.

>>31702817
Never said it was supposed to be revolutionary.
BW had a lot of characters that they didn't know what they wanted to do with.

Take Trip. They wanted to make a new rival again, and they had no clue what they wanted to do with him in the slightest. They copied stuff from Gary and Paul, but had no plan.

And what I mean by Misty 2.0 is that they just wanted to copy stuff from Misty, like how she argued and made fun of Ash. That was all they had planned for her.

And while May and Dawn had similar goals, they still stood apart as characters, as their character arcs were done in different ways.

I wouldn't mind Iris if she actually evolved Axew. I guess they ditched that and decided to make her do so after the series.

I would've loved to see Haxorus in action, a visual depiction of character development for Axew and Iris.

At this point, Ash is more of a Dragon Master than Iris is. I wouldn't be surprised if Gible becomes Garchomp a hundred episodes before Iris still has Axew as Axew.

>>31702909
Sorry, wrong wording. I meant to say 'I would mind Iris less', because all that could happen and she could maintain the U R KID personality.

>>31702888
>They copied stuff from Gary and Paul, but had no plan
Their plan was to have Ash beat Trip in the end after losing to him so many times, showing Ash's strength. And they succeeded. What more do you need? Trip is not one of BW's many flaws.

>That was all they had planned for her
>What is Dragon Master
>What is the Village of Dragons
>What is Georgia
>What is Drayden
They didn't handle it well enough, clearly, but it was there. If you're going to point out tiny insignificant differences between May and Dawn you can't just conveniently ignore this shit. She had a RIVAL that Misty never had.

>>31702968
>Trip is not one of BW's many flaws.
And stopped reading there.

But just to cover this
>Their plan was to have Ash beat Trip in the end after losing to him so many times, showing Ash's strength
Thats literally what Paul was. Moreover, Paul was designed to be a perfect foil for Ash, both had the exact same experience, having traveled Kanto, Sinnoh and Johto, and Paul's methords were completely opposite of Paul's.
Moreover, factor in Chimchar, a Pokemon with potential that Paul was just unable to bring out.

Repeating that with Trip was terrible because multiple reasons. He, unlike Paul, was a complete rookie. And only won their first battle because Pikachu was super nerfed for it. Moreover, it was harder to take him seriously because he loses a lot. His wins over Ash, but loses in both Club battles.

>>31702909
Axew was basically Iris' version of Piplup or Togepi. Just the cute mascot who couldn't evolve while she was a main character

File: IMG_3577.jpg (44KB, 327x340px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 327x340px

>>31703066
So how would you make a better rival, then?
If it's anything similar to Gary or Paul it will be immediately discarded due to hypocrisy.

Nice job completely avoiding the points about Iris by the way. You're pretty much admitting that you can't counter those points.

>>31703114
>So how would you make a better rival, then?
>If it's anything similar to Gary or Paul it will be immediately discarded due to hypocrisy.
Its not a matter of copying them or not, its matter of doing it for more than superficial reasons. They clearly didn't know what they wanted to do with Trip, and thats why they just copied Paul in terms of battling and season 1 Gary for mocking Ash.
They copied the Paul battles without any of the things that made Ash's rivalry with Paul work.

>Nice job completely avoiding the points about Iris by the way.
What part of "stopped reading there" did you not understand?
Do you assume that everyone who says that doesn't actually mean it?

>>31702232

It doesn't. The cast was fine. The problems were all with the story.

>>31702946
Axew was a cute mascot to appeal to girls, like Psyduck in the first season. They gave her Excadrill and Dragonite to battle.

Basically the same reason why Pikachu will never evolve.

Haxorus and Raichu aren't cute at all.

>>31702232
More ass shots of Hild. This would infinitely improve the anime even if it retained the godawful writing.

>>31703222
>Raichu aren't cute at all.

You take that back, you dirt son of a bitch.

File: 1486483831415.jpg (21KB, 475x358px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 475x358px

>>31703227
This fatso ain't cute.

>>31703226
Fucking this. Iris had zero sex appeal and was just fucking annoying.

>>31703222
>Axew was a cute mascot to appeal to girls
But wasn't that Oshawott's job and why it never evolved?

File: stop at once.jpg (39KB, 640x501px) Image search: [Google]

39KB, 640x501px

>>31703243
Anon, if you're trying to bait me, then it's working.

File: IMG_3408.jpg (34KB, 340x280px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 340x280px

>>31703191
>it's only bad to copy when I say so!
Nice.

>What part of "stopped reading there" did you not understand?
The part where you did it exclusively to pussy out of an argument.

File: 1486412654322.jpg (64KB, 750x539px) Image search: [Google]

64KB, 750x539px

>>31702232
>having both Hilbert and Ash cosplaying as hilbert in one series

remove ash. I'll never understand why they haven't done this yet.


I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't done this yet because of who he's named after. Some one go tell them that replacing Satoshi with a different character from the games isn't going to get them tortured, mutilated, and fired, well at least not all at the same time

>>31703291
>>it's only bad to copy when I say so!
No, its bad because the execution was bad. Again, no plan Thats why it culminated in Ash beating him in a 1 on 1 in the prelims of the League. Not even a full battle.

>The part where you did it exclusively to pussy out of an argument.
Is that that how you explain to yourself not having a post worth reading in its entirety?

>>31703326
>I'll never understand why they haven't done this yet.
Popularity was the first reason.
By now, its too late. He is too iconic. They can't replace him without fear of backlash now until Rica is ready to retire from voicing him.

>>31702232
Have Ash decide to take a sabbatical trip to Unova after losing the Sinnoh League, traveling there but NOT going after badges, and ends up mentoring Hilda. I guess Cilan still comes along to feed them after she wins her first badge.

File: 1486519294286.jpg (32KB, 379x302px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 379x302px

>>31702232
fixed

>>31702232
It ruins the best protags?

File: IMG_2433.png (212KB, 553x485px) Image search: [Google]

212KB, 553x485px

>>31703346
The execution was bad for Gary too but I don't see you complaining about that.
Or about Sawyer and Alan who were also handled poorly.

>I-I just didn't respond because it wasn't worth responding to!
Suuuuure, kid. Whatever you say.

>>31702485
Reason why dp is my fav season dawn and ash work so well together.

>>31703420
>The execution was bad for Gary too but I don't see you complaining about that.
Gary himself was also handled badly. I won;t defend that. He never once battled Ash during the original series. Despite the memes, he was a terrible rival.

>Or about Sawyer and Alan who were also handled poorly.
Poorly, probably. Took too long to get introduced to Ash. At least Alain had the Mega Evolution specials to get developed. And at least those gave a reason to hype Alain up.
And even then, they're still Leagues above Trip.

You can bait all you want, but I'm not seeing a reason to go back and finish that post.

>>31703378
I really like this one.

>>31703326
>spoiler

Well, that's a pretty valid reason that explains everything.

Gary's named after Miyamoto and he hasn't appeared in a long while. What happened?

>>31703378
After Hilda wins the Unova League (but loses to the Elite 4), Ash is reinvigorated to try another League himself and decides to go to Kalos.

>>31703378
Two issues
1. Why would Ash choose not to participate in the League? It makes no sense for him and his character to not want to participate.
2. Even if they could come up with a believable way to keep him out, why would the anime use Hilda over Hilbert for such a plot?

>>31704066
1) because no matter how much you love doing something, you need to take a break every now and then, especially if it seems like you're not getting anywhere with it.
2) gender balancing.

>>31704066
2. Is there a reason why they should use Hilbert over Hilda?

>>31702433
ジョジョ reference?

>>31704098
>1) because no matter how much you love doing something, you need to take a break every now and then, especially if it seems like you're not getting anywhere with it.
A break is a break, and Ash was in the middle of taking a break when he went with Oak to Unova. Getting there was what made him want to compete. Same withthe Orange Islands, Battle Frontier and Alola. Ash is the type that when something catches his interest, he'll go for it. There is no believable way to have him go to Unova, and not want to compete as soon as he finds out about the League.
And Ash is also of the "Never give up." type of character.
>2) gender balancing.
Still doesn't give a good reason why Hilda would be used, when they could easily have the girl be the other character traveling with him, like Iris or Bianca, etc.

>>31704133
Hilbert is more popular, for one. Moreover, if they were gonna have Ash be in the secondary role, then that means that the new one hes mentoring would be the main character, and we all we all know deep down, they're not going to put in a girl as the main character in a series like Pokemon.

>>31704143
I think making Ash the reliable older brother/mentor type would be an interesting and organic way to take his character. Also, after losing four damn leagues already, he might wonder to himself why he was so gung-ho about becoming a master in the first place, kinda mirroring Cheren's dilemma in the games before he gets his spark rekindled. hello, natural character development and maturation.

>>31704226
You have to remember, despite the continuity snarls, hes still just 10. Moreover, that doesn't address the issue that, Ash losing the Leagues isn't meant to be portrayed that way. Its intended to be a moment to tell him "Never give up!" Especially when he has successes like winning the Orange League, and being the first to conquer the Battle Frontier.
Taking a break would be even more out of character when you factor in the other times when Ash loses, like when he does at a Gym.

Natural character progression is only natural when it doesn't go completely out of character from prior established events.

If you want Ash in a mentor role, it has to be in a way that he is not able to compete himself, no matter how much he might want to.

>>31704143
Ash goes to Unova on an errand for Oak, decides to stick around the new surroundings, then run into whatever character he's going to travel with and mentor. There we go.

>>31704292
And why would he not want to enter the Unova League as soon as he hears about it?

>>31704288
Yes, never take a step back and see what you can do differently to achieve the main dream you otherwise keep failing, wonderful message for children. And there's keeping a character's, well, character, and not doing anything with him for almost 20 years.

>>31704343
The message is to keep trying no matter how many times you fail.

Which is a good message, since protecting kids from all failure leads to problems later in life.

>>31704380
? Never said anything about stopping kids from ever failing. It's just that it objectively IS a waste of time to never give up if you don't bother learning from your past.