So...which one of these guys is the most likely to get suspected?

>>31575231

Pheromosa, god if she is OP with high jump kick

>>31575231
>Didn't get suspected for three generations (when it became relevant)

Probably Lele or Ninja again

Greninja. Lele is still gonna stick around for a while alongside Phero and Dugtrio most likely will soon get banned so.

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Probably Gren. Lel won't get suspected or if she does it'll be rejected because 'muh A-Muk counter'. Pherom has dropped off the map now that people know how to beat her.

>>31575240
She's only broken with Psychic Terrain.

Why my bro m-sab? I can why the base form now that I think about

But how good is it now?

>>31575231
>dugtrio "cancer" because it checks smogon's favorite legendaries

pathetic

>>31575400
>Now
Bastard got banned to Ubers at the end of gen 6. It's so bulky and its ability ducks up stall and non-stall players. It did get nerfed hard though, no turn 1 prankster messes with WoW and calm mind sets just a tad.

>>31575231
>Dugtrio
wtf

>>31575400
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/stall-in-sm-ou.3593151/page-2

>"We went to save Sab once with a STag ban, then ended up banning Sab in the long run. I feel like talking about this is beating a dead horse, but there's at least some precedent that removing trappers does not significantly reduce the power of Sableye in a metagame. It cuts off one of its best support options, but the fundamental issues of why Sableye is the core of every stall team is still there. It still prevents hazards and stallbreaking options like Status and Taunt from really impacting most stall teams, where as otherwise those types of stallbreakers are significant threats to those team types. Again, everyone's heard this one, so let's move onto something that's a little more recent."

>"The impact of Sableye's ban on Dugtrio in ORAS. Dugtrio is significantly more powerful in SM, and I doubt it'd fall from OU without Sableye's presence, but the incredible impact Sableye has when leaving a metagame can't be understated."

>>31575424
>Smogon bans broken sweepers
>Smogon only wants stall!
>Smogon bans broken stall tool
>Lol git gud smogon
Go fuck yourself, dugtrio is a fucking pain in the ass, it can guarantee stall teams a win on his own.

>>31575480
How are they stall if they have dugtrio on them?

>>31575506
>doesn't know that duggy is a stall staple
Stall isn't just 6 bulky mons with toxic, anon.

>>31575506
How about you look it up? I'm not going to spoon-feed you after you display such ignorance in your original post. If you take a minute or two you'll find out why exactly dugtrio is sableye's best friend

>>31575559
Then it sounds like mega sableye is the problem doesn't it

>>31575639
1.stop moving the goalposts, you fuck. First you call smogon pathetic because of banning dugtrio for that bullshit reason when there's like 50 more valid excuses to do so, and now youre blaming sableye

2. Mega sableye is naught but an innocent bystander (not really I'm just making a point). Actually look it up, it's not just him, most of stall benefits greatly from being able to remove a threat with certainty.

>>31575506
Good stall teams are not a team of 6 stall mons. It's usually 5 stall mons with a wild card; a pokemon to get you out of trouble, like a revenge killer or trapper to remove the things that troubles the rest of your team.

>>31575675
How is it moving goalposts? My entire point is that dugtrio deals specifically with generally broken shit that smogon loves. If anything those should be removed.

>>31575728
>dugtrio deals specifically with generally broken shit that smogon loves.
Dugtrio is used to remove stallbreakers, which are usually not broken.
>If anything those should be removed
Why would you ban stallbreakers? Do you want the meta to be nothing but stall?

>>31575474
>Ban dugtrio due to how it can help stallers mostly mega sableye
>Brings up how dugtrio's usage would be half if sableye was banned
>Ban the support not the problem

Why are both VGC and Smogon bad ?

>>31575924
Because Pokemon is a game with literally billions of possible viable team combinations (mons, moves, abilities, items, EV/IV spreads, etc) and no way to balance them at all.

>>31575924
Wat? Is dugtrio also a problem in VGC?

>>31575375
Which isn't hard to set up.

>>31575639
>>31575924
M-Sableye is the biggest problem since smart play ensures you can't set up hazards vs stall. Dugtrio is also very helpful to stall and both pokemon support each other, but M-Sableye is the problem of the two.

>>31575924
>Brings up how dugtrio's usage would be half if sableye was banned
What? That post literally said the opposite.
>I doubt it'd fall from OU without Sableye's presence

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insider leak here, trust me.

next on the line is Dug.

>>31578115

Any word on Lele?

>>31578722
unless the meta shifts to the pt where lele would be broken post-dug suspect, it's not next on the chopping block (which i don't, since lele is one of those mon you run to deal with stall (on top of other things))

they reckon it's strong tho

>>31580758
doubt>don't

>>31575231
>My money goes to Dugtrio
Nope. Knowing how smogon works it will either never get banned or arena trap will. Dugtrio isn't too hard to counter, it just suffers the same issue as Wobbuffet in previous gens, where you basically HAVE to lose a mon to it sometimes

I'd be willing to bet Lele won't spend the whole gen in OU. Protean Greninja is likely to move up eventually as well. Pheromosa is also not as common as she was earlier in the gen, same goes for toxapex.

Le cancer goblin of stall will likely stay in OU until either gen 8 is about to come out or just forever.

Regular dugtrio or Alolan dugtrio?

What's different with Regular that makes him a bigger threat?

>>31580903
Arena trap.

It's like shadow tag, only flying types and levitate users can switch out. A-Dug is solid UU at the moment.

lele needs to go

>>31580933

Okay, that's normal for Dugtrio

What is it about this gen that makes him a noticeable problem?

>>31580903
Arena Trap, better stat distro.

>>31580956
They increased his base atk by 20

>>31580956
he traps p.much every stallbreaker and he got an attack buff (100 BS > 80 BS)

Dugtrio will probably be saved because it isn't quite as cancerous as Gothistall. Phermosa will survive too.

They'll probably make it so BB/Protean Greninja appears on team preview, but one or both will get banned eventually.

Lele will probably get banned because of the power+support it gives teams.

Sableye, I don't know. It kind of got worse this gen while Venusaur got better. Depends on where the meta goes.

Also, M-Metagross will probably get banned as it only got better this gen.

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>>31575424
Fuck I love Dugtrio
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-525234728

>>31581153
>Entrainment Durant
HOW COME I NEVER THOUGHT OF THIS

>>31580933
What does alolan dug do in UU?

>>31581330
Just revenge kill. Honestly it might drop to RU before the gen is out, but 120 base speed is pretty solid in UU, and ground/steel is not a bad typing for anything. The only things that really outspeed it are m-aerodactyl and m-sharpedo, and it can still be a threat to aero with iron head.

>>31575231
>Protean Greninja
Protean Greninja is more viable than Ash-Greninja only because everyone is scared of him and Protean Greninja fucks Ash-Greninja's counters.

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FINALLY, HE'S HERE FOR YOU

IT'S THE LAST MEMBER OF THE CANCER CREW

THIS MON'S SO STRONG, IT ISN'T FUNNY

CAN MAKE MOST OF OU CRY OUT FOR MUMMY

CAN SET UP OR SWEEP WITH RELATIVE EASE

MAKES CRUSHING ROCK-TYPES SEEM SUCH A BREEZE

HE'S NOT TOO SLOW, HE CAN JUMP HIGH

THIS MON WILL MAKE YOU WANT TO DIE
HUH!

>>31575506
Have you played not competitive recently? I only picked it up in ORAS so stall might've functioned differently before, but before Duggy is was Weavile to trap things.

>>31581505
>FINALLY, HE'S HERE FOR YOU
>YOU instead of OU
missed opportunity

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>>31581153
I got frustrated just watching that

>>31582149
The meter would be out of whack if I did that. OU is two syllables, so it wouldn't really sound good if it replaced "you".

>>31575303
>it'll be rejected because 'muh A-Muk counter'.
Yes just like AV skuntank kept greninja from being banned last gen right?

>>31575231
I'm not in touch with competitive this gen, what the fuck does Dugtrio even do

>>31582985
Trap. Arena trap means all grounded pokemon that aren't ghost type can't switch. Duggy now has base 100 attack this Gen, up from 80, so it can actually kill the OU threats it wants to trap. Duggy does work on offensive teams by trapping walls like heatran and toxapex, and is used to great effect by stall teams by picking off stallbreakers like volcarona.

>>31575231
Someday, all Pokemon will get suspected. They can all do something that the rest can't, and could all be considered an "unfair advantage" if you're picky enough.

>>31581153
I'm going to try this, looks so evil.

>>31581383
Alolan dugtrio has 110 speed tho

>>31582985
It kills their Chansey reliably and anything that can do that gets banned.

>>31575506
One of the keys to stall is being prepared for what your team can't wall.
Throwing in Dugtrio means you get to eliminate one thing on the enemy team.
Do the math.

>>31583484
>Duggy now has base 100 attack this Gen, up from 80, so it can actually kill the OU threats it wants to trap.
It gets like 4 more 2HKOs with that boost.
Not broken.

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>>31583569
>Smogon hates everything that's not stall, they're banning Dugtrio because it traps their walls!
>w-what do you mean Dugtrio is a stall staple used to trap wallbreakers?

>>31583569
Literally the opposite. Dugtrio can snipe pokemon that can break a stall team's core.

>>31581408
Greninja and Zoroark are good buddies for similar reasons now. Sending out Greninja makes people sperg out, and Greninja's movepool makes it esy to keep up the ruse.

>>31583569
>Doesn't even beat Chansey

I know you're retarded but learn the damn meta.

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>>31583732
Which is why dugtrio sets often carry screech. I know you're retarded but learn the damn meta.

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>Playing smogon singles
lel
enjoy playing the game the objectively wrong way

t. smogon doubles masterrace (how the game was meant to be played)

>playing baby rules
have fun playing a shitty unstable meta for the next 3 years because their petty bans never stop until the next gen releases

>>31584304

is banning mega salamence petty? i kicked so many peoples ass's with it without using any skill that i wasnt even having fun so i stopped using it myself

>>31575231
Phero/M-Sab/Dugtrio are not overpowered, you utter goon. Next on the chopping block is probably Ash Gren or Lando

>>31585444
Sableye was pretty cancer back when there was only like 2 good faries.

>>31585452
That was also before the mechanics change to mega evolutions.

>>31585466
M-Sableye was pretty tough to deal with regardless of prankster. If you weren't dealing 50%+ to it every turn, it would recover off all the damage and burn you.

Because balance is no longer possible with 802 Pokemon.

>>31575240
She lacks coverage... Just stick a fucking ghost in front of her and stop crying.

friendly reminder that pheromosa is genderless and thus its pronoun is it

>>31585575
Pheromosa will be in Ubers as soon as the second wave of games come out and it gets Knock Off.

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>>31580878
They're willing to ban an ability just to kill a poke's niche? Man, that's just plain cruel.

>>31585543
Balanced and stall teams are the only reason Pheromosa is not S rank. With Quiver Dance+Fightium-Z that might change, though.

>>31583618
I've seen Duggy work well against stall too. Can trap a weakened Chansey and kill it pretty easily.

Also, friendly reminder that stallbreakers are handicapping themselves just to beat Dugtrio.

>>31575231
Pheremosa and Lele are both extremely overpowered

Also it seems like all Pheremosa sets are now running scarf? Scarf? On that speed? What the fuck

>>31581153
That's almost genius

>>31581505
I can't believe this thing never got banned

>>31586160
Phero isn't as good as you think. She has a lot of common checks, and if she can't kill a mon in one hit she dies herself.

>>31585948
>They're willing to ban an ability just to kill a poke's niche? Man, that's just plain cruel.
They've done it with shadow tag for the same reason.

>>31586183
Why would it be?

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>>31589811
40% usage. It might be even higher now that OU's bans are finished for the most part and the tier is starting to settle.

>>31589974
Bans are never based on usage percent.

>>31589993
>Bans are never based on usage percent.
At least not in OU they aren't. I personally think usage that high signals something wrong with the meta, but smogon wants their rock dog forever so it will always have a place on the S rank in OU

>>31590023
>high signals something wrong with the meta
Lando T is healthy for the meta and allows for more varied teams because of its existence. The most common set fills like 3 roles a team needs, one of them being a blanket check to many threats.

>>31590053
What about the other mons that could fill that role that get kept out of OU because of Lando?

Are you genuinely arguing role centralization is a symbol of a healthy meta?

>>31590079
What would even rise if Lando T was banned? Also I don't think you understand what centralization means. To say Lando is centralizing would mean that in team building you would put in mons or sets that are only useful in the situation where you're fighting a Lando T. I'm not sure about you, but whenever I build a team, I don't think "Wait, what's my Lando check?" because more than likely 3 or so mons will when the team is done.

>>31590127
Centralization of roles is when several roles are condensed into one. Tell me, why run gliscor as a wall when you can run Lando-T, why run Azelf as a lead when you can run Lando-T, it's not so much about it being used so much that is bad, it's what it's preventing from seeing use.

I know you can argue you can still use those mons as replacements, but why would you when Lando does their job better?

>>31589993
But are they based on viability ranking? I mean, have they ever suspected a pokemon that wasn't S rank?

>>31590221
I think you got lost and missed your own point. If Pokemon got banned because they do a role better than another, we'd be down in PU with only 10 mons available.

metagross will.

>>31587342
Well it was either send Gothitelle to ubers or kill Wobbuffet.

>>31590279
Dude, I'm saying Lando does multiple roles well enough he outclasses more than most. Just because skarm is a better defensive mon than mandibuzz doesn't mean I think mandibuzz should be OU and skarm should be banned. Lando can be a lead, be a sweeper, be a bulky tank, he does so many things in fact that not having one on your team is often a detriment.

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>>31581153
Holy fuck.
Why is this not used more often?

>>31581153
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-525618031
This is cancer look what you made me do

>>31590858
How low in the ladder is this? That team was fucking dong.

>>31590891
mid 1200's
That's just my test alt

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>>31581153
That's fucking great

>>31581153
The fact that /vp/ is impressed by this says wonders

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>>31581153
>1040 → 1025
>1054 → 1085

really makes you think