>no fairies >no megas >no z-moves >gems were mechanically

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>>31484679
>lots of viable strategies and pokemon

Quill me

>>31484688
What's up with Sejun Park's team?

>Magmar
For what purpose? Eviolite? Magmortar wasn't allowed?

>>31484715
Eviolite Follow Me
Overheat for Amoonguss

RIP Magmar. Now with Knock Off and the pentagon rule, it's unusable.

>>31484720
>Follow Me is a Purification-exclusive move
Gale of Darkness was a mistake

>>31484738
Gale of Darkness was one of the best things that happened to Pokemon.

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>Will the magic ever come back?
Nope.

>Did the clueless casuals ruin this franchise forever?
Yes.

BW2 were the best games in the franchise and no one fucking bought them. Going to barebones garbage like X/Y after BW2 was like a slap in the fucking face.

>>31484679

>gems were mechanically more fun than z-moves
not really.

>lots of viable strategies and pokemon
like blue genie of healthy meta, orange genie of healthy meta, and green genie of healthy meta...

>lowest selling gen
probably because black and white were such a bore-fest that it put a lot of people off the games.

>Will the magic ever come back?
probably not.

>Did the clueless casuals ruin this franchise forever?
no, they didn't. Gamefreak did, if you consider the franchise ruined. if they moved away from the B2/W2 formula, it's because it didn't sell well. the fact that gamefreak don't understand why is what causes them to remove the good stuff in subsequent games.

>easy rng manipulation for good legendaries
What do you mean?

>>31484799
>not really.
Once per battle single target nuke without any additional effects that's guaranteed to hit vs...

>spread damage improvement
>priority improvement
>keeping all the positive and negative effects of the original move
>can be used on any pokemon you want

Hmm...

>>31484818
http://www.smogon.com/ingame/rng/bw_rng_intro

BW2 works the same except that you'll have a higher range of timer0 and breeding is unviable.

So with average luck with the timer0, around 7 or 8 resets (if you're using the DSlite or phat) you can get a flawless legendary, even shiny if you RNG'd your SID.

gen4 was the peak and 7 is redeeming the last 8 years

>>31484915
gen4 was the peak of shit

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>>31484915
>7 is redeeming
How?

>>31484945
by being better than gen 5 and 6

>>31484979
baito desu

>>31484679
your a fucking underage to think that Gen5 was good. The only people that do are the kids that had it as their first pokemon game.

>>31484824

or, look at it another way...

it's a big ass, new move with it's own animation (and sometimes effect)

vs

a slightly bigger number on an existing move.

hmmm...

>>31484751

>casuals
>implying Pokémon hasn't always been a casual series

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>>31485004
I'm probably older than you.

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>>31485007
So, graphics over gameplay...

>>31484679
There was no excuse for challenge mode not to a regular feature in every pokemon game after BW2,

And looking at the challenge of the game and the fact we actually had full movesets i really do lament what followed.

You may not like the region or the characters but I don't think anyone could look at this and not despair at the wierdness of XY after it

Although the dragons should have represented Peace and Justice instead

>>31485068
zmoves are better for graphic and gameplay

>>31484679
>unique story that actually makes you questoin your goals and motives and characters that aren't cardboard cut-outs
>gold and silver level foreshadowing to character of last game but with more subtlety
>all pokemon have unique and charming battle animations
>some of the best side content a pokemon game has ever seen

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I'm actually playing Black 2 for the first time, just finished the first one. I'm trying to play through the games to catch up to SM.

Overall, I like the new mons introduced in this gen and the change to TMs was extremely welcome. The characters are more memorable as well. I just beat Roxie, who has the cutest gym

I bought both white 1 and 2 on eBay but the first one for delayed for a month and just arrived, so I already started playing 2. Should I play 1 and then 2?

>>31485193
Story of 1 gets referenced in 2. And I think Memory Link is more fun if you played 1 first.

>>31485193
Ideally you want to play 1 first, there also memory link like >>31485230 said.

You link your finished 1 game to your new 2 game and you get a bunch of bonus exposition and backstory through flashbacks. There's also N's pokemon (max iv, special battle animation pokemon).

Did anyone else get raped by N's Darmanitan? It's like 15 levels higher than you so you can't use repels and it kept flare blitzing my team to death.

>>31485230
>>31485249
Ooh, that's nice to know, thank you

>>31484688
I mean sure the fag genies are on every team but it was still way more diverse than anything that followed. Weather wars were fun.

>>31484688
>1 (ONE)
>a SINGLE fucking garchomp
Take me back

>>31485274
There's an area where you can only go to if you have seen every Pokémon in the Unova dex. Unless you know someone with a Black game, don't bother with this as there's no way to see a Vullaby otherwise so you can never go there.

If you happen to do bother, choose the same starter in 2 as you did in 1 so you can see every starter Pokémon. Or trade them before you start your real game.

>>31484747
Let me rephrase that sentence for him
Moves exclusive to Gale of Darkness on any Pokemon were a mistake

>>31485360
>gen VIII makes it possible for event and tutor moves to be passed down as long as the parent who has it is in the same evolutionary family as the offspring
A pipe dream.

>>31484679
those are some opinions you have there

>>31485360
I still disagree. It's great to vary your gameplay. Even during XY, I was still playing older games for exclusive moves.

But now thanks to the clover rule I have to reason to play anything other than SM. A recipe for burnout.

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>>31484824
>tfw a regular Brave Bird would have knocked out the my Tsareena, but your Flying Gem boosted its power anyway. And you wasted your item.

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>>31485287
>based wind genie was viable

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>>31485289
>top 4 Rhydon

>>31485457
>genie
>based
die

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>>31486132
>hating the based wind genie

>>31485055
Underaged confirmed
Mods

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>>31486737

>>31484679
>no dumb abilities whose only purpose is to increase damage even further
>infinite weather
i stoped reading at this point

>>31484679
I legitimately don't understand how people could not like these games if you're a seasoned Pokémon fan. Like seriously

The story in BW 2 wasn't as good as the story in BW 1. Colress just wasn't that interesting a villain and Dennis was far more imposing in the first.

I seriously don't understand why people put the story in these games up on this pedestal. BW sure but BW2 not so much.

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>>31487555
I've stopped playing competitive at this point.

bw2 was good too bad the original bw were complete shit

>>31487601
The thing with BW2 is that the villain and his plan is efficient, and realistic.

Failing to dominate Unova through ideology, he now tries to dominate it with terrorism.

The only other villain like that was Giovanni.

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>>31484679
>infinite weather is a good thing

you almost had me there

>>31484679
Gen 5 was very sound mechanics- and content-wise. The problem was trying to replace and exclude the Pokémon that most people see as "definitive", which is why normies love XY for doing the exact opposite despite the fact that they're inferior games apart from that. Game Freak got the wrong message and now makes genwun pandering a priority over actual content and mechanics, which works if you play the games dismissively and have a lot of Gen I nostalgia but not if you want games with good longevity and replay value.

While B2W2 at least included all gens, it also didn't have very many Kanto favorites apart from the Eeveelutions (and a few postgame ones like Dragonite and Gyarados).

>>31487802
Whether his plan was efficient or not he just wasn't that interesting a character. N felt human, you could see how fucked up and conflicted he was.

Also I like many others completely didn't expect Ghetsis to end up being stronger than him and having legendary Pokemon battle music which made for an interesting twist.

>good story
plasma: release ur pokemon
me: no
plasma: ok i will fight u with mine

Let's not forget

>Best music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-6JV-M8oxE

>>31487885
That was the point. Team Plasma actually didn't want to save Pokemon. They just tricked people into joining under that premise so Dennis could take over the world.

>>31487822
Its fun when you're using weather. I still have a sun team in Black 2 for fucking around in the PWT/Subway and its a hoot.

I should try to replay white 2 sometime to get a third shiny Haxorus.

>>31487832
What about Arcanine and Magnemite line

And Zubat line

>>31487936
Can you still complete the regional dex without wifi? I got most of them but I heard you can't see a Skitty and something else

>>31487768
what is smogon?

>>31488048
Forgot about Arcanine, but Magnemite and Zubat aren't that popular. Magnemite is mostly just popular because of Japanese memes that arose BECAUSE of B2W2.

>>31488057
youll have to inject some event mons i think

>>31488058
The other extreme.

>>31487822
It really is though, at least for GF's metas. Many Pokemon became viable thanks to it.

>>31484679
>>31484688
It's a real fucking shame that the best fucking gen was so poorly recieved just because people can't get over an ice cream cone or some gears

>>31488124
when are u faggots going to just accept gen 5 was shit holy hell

>>31488124
Those are the most frequent points of mockery, NOT the reason why people were alienated. It bears repeating, the problem was trying to replace and exclude the Pokémon that most people see as "definitive", which is why normies love XY for doing the exact opposite despite the fact that they're inferior games apart from that.

The starters didn't help: they're the "face" of the generation in most cases, but Unova's starters were very poorly designed in terms of stats and typing, and had very little personality compared to the two sets that followed. Only Contrary Serperior was able to redeem them somewhat years later.

>>31484679
>no fairies
I don't.

>>31484679
does gen 5 have overall the worst starters?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Fairy-type, Megas, or Z-Moves. Well, Z-Moves are pretty shit, but they don't take anything away, they're just a waste of time. Still better than Gems.

>>31484751
>BW2 sold poorly myth

Best selling of any return to a region in the same generation as its debut. As it deserves. Excellent, excellent game.

BW1 however, which is the lowest selling start of a generation, is shit. Once more, as it deserves.

>>31488166
No because gen 6 exists

>>31484679
I agree, gen 5 was the laziest generation and added almost nothing to the formula. All it can really be said to have done was unfuck the atrocious gen 4's mistakes. Thank god gen 6 ended the stagnation and we're back to innovation.

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>>31488124
I hated gen v because of those exact things when it came out. Then I saw the wonder that is ruse fox in a rom hack I was playing and now I don't mind the gen

>>31488170
That's because 3 other games were already on the same handheld

Also DS pirating was unbelievable. Like one of the most exploited systems in history

>>31488190
i only like zorua because of its cute voice in the movie

>>31488141
>The starters didn't help: they're the "face" of the generation in most cases, but Unova's starters were very poorly designed in terms of stats and typing, and had very little personality compared to the two sets that followed. Only Contrary Serperior was able to redeem them somewhat years later.
My perception is probably biased but I don't really see anything inherently superior in "ninja frog" over "samurai otter", or "fox magician" over "sumo pig".

Honestly I'm starting to think that XY's main edge over BW was simultaneous worldwide release and 3D.

Like, people are fully exposed to the japanese's releases, killing all and any hype that they could have.

While now, just look at all the hype over SM. Nobody knew what to expect and with GF's newfound marketing, they tickled people's curiosity and pressed just the right buttons, being like "buy the game to find out what this new ultra beast thing is!" (even though said new things were functionally the same as your average old pokemon).

XY has a huge backlash today, and I imagine that SM will follow once the next games are released. But the hype machine will continue selling more copies than actual content.

>>31488199
And yet BW2, the actually good game and the best in the series, is the best selling of third versions, while the worst game in the series, BW1, is the worst selling start to a generation. As each deserve.

Capitalism is a wonder.

>>31488240
pokemon yellow sold double bw2

>>31488236
It's more complicated than that:

Water starter with uncommon typing that can change its type vs. Water starter with very common and boring typing and no unique gimmicks or selling points

Fire starter with very rare typing vs. Fire starter using the same recycled typing for the third time in a row and being an utter competitive disappointment compared to the two others

>>31484688
>Eviolite rhydon
I didn't pay attention to comp back then, was that a niche thing to counter a certain Mon or was that relatively common?

>>31488240
Gen 6 marketing was on point

I think it also single handedly boosted 3ds sales

>>31488279
and then u have the shitty plain grass type

>>31488297
The average Thundurus couldn't do anything with Lightning Rod on the field. It was one of the many niches from that gen.

>>31488320
So the gen 5 Alolan Marowak antimeta mon

>>31484679
ya know for gen 5 being so bad it had some good music at least

>>31484679
most of this pretty much boils down to
>but muh competitive and grinding, fucking casuals!!!!!!!
this is really why I don't like unovabortions and I'm glad they're not being pandered to

people play these games to have fun with their friends and their favorite mons, not stroke their fragile egos with tedium

>>31488057
You just need to see everything in the regional dex iirc, and I have all the gen v games so trading is easy.

>>31488409
>people play these games to have fun with their friends and their favorite mons, not stroke their fragile egos with tedium

Stop murdering gaming pls

>>31485360
>Psycho Boost Lugia with Multiscale

hidden abilities were a mistake just fucking change the shit tier abilities

>>31488409
It isn't just about competitive and grinding, it's also about the amount of content and exploration. One reason why HGSS are so beloved is that they have a similar amount of content to B2W2 while actually *appealing to* genwunners rather than alienating them.

I hate Unovabortions too, sure they want more content and creativity in their games but they also want Charizard and Gen I to be completely ignored, for new Pokémon to always be emphasized over older ones, and for there to be continued references to N and Team Plasma as if they were the definitive Pokémon characters.

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>>31484688
>Weather wars
>Genies
It did have some diversity at least.

>>31485068
>a move gets increased power 1 time
>"gameplay"
Ok. Z-status shit on gems hard.

>>31484679
>no fairies
>no megas
But I like both these things.

>>31487899
Kek. Wrong. Only some of Team Plasma was with Ghetsis.

{31488140}

Low effort bait.

>>31488490
Nobody uses those because they're bad.

>>31488436
>Stop murdering gaming pls
if evolving into something more than mindless button mashing and farming is "murdering gaming" then good

maybe you should try doing something productive and actually skillful for once if you want to feel good about yourself and be recognized, being good at a game for children benefits nobody and nobody gives a shit about you outside of these kinds of boards for it

>>31488478
it's true, there were still good aspects to the games but like you I really don't enjoy the general gen 5 shill mindset of burying the past because it hurts their feelings, emphasizing grinding and other more autistic, tedious portions of the game and telling people who they can and can't like and how they can and can't play

>>31488589
Boi if you played gen 5 you'd know that people have a much higher chance of "having fun with their favorites" on an evironment that doesn't includes Z-moves and Megas.

But, just like those clueless casuals, you don't know what's better for yourself, you just follow the pretty lights.

>>31488589
Agreed, and as inferior as Gen 6 and probably 7 are, they DID bring in a lot of good things. Best of all were Gen 6's streamlined competitive mechanics, Pokémon-Amie and Refresh give your Pokémon actual personality and make them more like characters than weapons for the first time since HGSS. I actually highly appreciate the nostalgia pandering right down to Megazard X; the reason this board hates it so much is because it came at the expense of other elements, but I see it more as a saving grace of the two newest gens (and a major advantage over BW1) since it helps keep everything familiar and comfy.

Speaking of BW
>Check all my games
>Genies of healthy meta nowhere to be found
I could play through Black, should I get white too for thundurus? I'd do the radar thing but my white 2 cartridge is ded.
So anyways, get white, black 2 or
>just inject it lol
I never use them but I need them for muh pokedex

>>31488664
u can get them in oras

>>31487601
Story wasn't as good, but gameplay and features were as polished as anything could ever be.

gen 5 also looked like a japanese porn

>>31488549
Yes, that's the point. He was manipulating N to be a face and get more people, including large portions of team Plasma, on his side. It even causes the schism in BW2 from the aftermath of N realizing the betrayal.

The plot has actual depth to it.

>>31488676
......oh
Well I feel dumb now, still I have omega ruby so I'll miss out on lando and thundurus unless someone gives me one. I can try the GTS

>>31488736
if u have bank and want to replay oras just store the one u get and trade the other once u beat the game, u need both to get the third

>>31488613
nah, there's more to "having fun" than win farming on wifi, shitmons were no less shit in 5 then they are now

>But, just like those clueless casuals, you don't know what's better for yourself
neither do you which is why your shitty ideas have been collectively flipped the bird everywhere else but here despite millions upon millions of people having played with them

it's time to accept reality and realize that nobody cares about pandering to your obnoxious play style and likely never will again

>>31488784
>nah, there's more to "having fun" than win farming on wifi, shitmons were no less shit in 5 then they are now
It's not about winning or losing, it's about having your "bro" do something besides getting OHKOed by things that have higher firepower than a fucking Rayquaza.

Even normies used to complain about people with full legendary teams.

>neither do you which is why your shitty ideas have been collectively flipped the bird everywhere else but here
>but here
Is this a stealth "everybody hated gen 5" comment?

>it's time to accept reality and realize that nobody cares about pandering to your obnoxious play style and likely never will again
GF is pandering to competitive "win farmers" more than ever.

You're yelling at the guy trying to patch the sinking boat. As I said, casuals don't know what's the best for them. Ohhh Z-Move, shiny.

>>31488848
>anyone who dislikes gen 5 is a casual
gen 5,6, and 7 are all shit megas and z moves included

>>31488848
>Even normies used to complain about people with full legendary teams.
legendary teams are usually not that difficult to roast though, even megas

>Is this a stealth "everybody hated gen 5" comment?
sure, the games aren't really remembered all that favorably and newer games lacking many of those features are still selling like hotcakes, so have you ever just considered that people really just don't give a fuck about them and they weren't really the massively incredible quality-of-life improvements you thought they were?

>GF is pandering to competitive "win farmers" more than ever.
but are they really? with shitty moves that can only be used for one OHKO at best and disallow you from holding items? megas that aren't necessarily all that great as long as you have a good counter?

>>31488124
Or maybe, people don't like it because it isn't even close to being the best gen? Stay mad, unovacuck.

>>31488956
Unovabortions remind me of buttmad Wind Waker fags who are upset that they didn't make a ton more overly cartoony Disneyesque Zelda games with overly "different" plotlines and gimmicks and made TP and SS instead

WW got two sequels on the DS and they're STILL mad

>>31488236
>XY has a huge backlash today
>/vp/ represents the entire Pokemon community

>>31489022
Even Neogaf, known for its shilling, started having criticism threads on it.

>>31489032
It's not just on /vp/, but that said XY are far from being universally hated.

>>31488948
>but are they really? with shitty moves that can only be used for one OHKO at best and disallow you from holding items? megas that aren't necessarily all that great as long as you have a good counter?

Primal Groudon and Arceus aren't that good if you have a counter :^)

>>31484679
Everything but the infinite weather is a good thing. If Gen 5 meta wasn't weather wars, it would've been one of the best, I theorize.

>>31488956
>le everyone didn't like Gen. 5 meme

>>31484679
Gen 5 didn't have the best competitive, gen 4 did.

I admire GF's ambition for having the balls to make the regional dex nothing but new Pokemon, even if technically most of them were more or less re-skinned versions of the older Kanto Pokemon. You could argue that due to location, Unova being most likely the furthest from the other regions, that that's why you can't catch Zubat, but instead Woobat. almost like Darwinism if you'd like.

In any case, I'm sad that this idea didn't pan out too well as far as the fans were concerned, but it was definitely a welcome change for me personally. I liked not having to deal with other regional Pokemon for a change.

B2W2 definitely struck a good balance between the Unovan Pokemon and mons from other regions. Why XY and SM threw out that balance with their regional dexes, dunno.
It's a shame though, because now all I ever hear is complaining about there not being enough focus on the new Pokemon, or that the new Pokemon are super hard to find.

Be careful what ya wish for, neh?

>>31488402
RSE, DPP, WB, WB2 all sounds like the same composer/s.

great music tbqh.

>>31489106
I use Charizard and Venusaur in my B2 playthrough. Am I a monster and/or heretic?

>>31489132
Not really. You can use whatever you want.

It'd be a shame if you just hacked in your favourites to play through BW1 instead of trying out the new pokemon though. Just my opinion though.

>>31484679
one of my biggest issues with these games are the starters like holy shit all of them are uninteresting

>>31489165
What about subsequent playthroughs of BW1, when the "new" Pokémon aren't new anymore?

>>31489175
This, if Greninja was a Unova starter and the starter HA's were available from Day 1 then people would remember Gen V more fondly.

>>31489209
>What about subsequent playthroughs of BW1, when the "new" Pokémon aren't new anymore?

That's fine, I just think it's important to use the new pokemon on your first playthrough. It's your choice ultimately.

>>31488956

Nice "argument", faglord.

the starters and lackluster dex options until the end part of the game is what holds it back

gen 5's starters fucked the gen over from the start

>>31489268
Shame too, Snivy was really popular and Tepig is one of the cutest and most aesthetically pleasing first-stage starters. They had potential but they were fucked over by their boring stats and typings, and not having their HA's released until well into Gen 6. If you could get Contrary Snivy from Day 1, I'm sure it'd have been more popular.

>>31489290
i liked oshawatt and dewott til it became samurott

>>31489304
Samurott's design and concept are actually really cool. It's a samurai sea otter with twin swords.

Yet, absolutely nothing about its typing, stats and learnset suggest that. It's just a generic slow mixed attacking Water-type with a shiny coat of paint. Just like Blastoise, but at least Blastoise has seniority and early-installment weirdness to excuse it.

>>31484679
It's such a shame. Gamefreak makes the best games in the series because they tried new things, but since casuals weren't happy their precious gen wun wasn't pandered to, Gamefreak doubled down on nostalgia pandering in the next two gens. Oh well, at least the hipster and his girlfriend who haven't played a pokemon game since they were ten are happy...

>>31489333
maybe they wanted to make him steel type or some shit but they didnt want to re use 2 typing from gen 4 so they dropped it

>>31489333
>Just like Blastoise, but at least Blastoise has seniority and early-installment weirdness to excuse it.
Blastoise's concept worked well with sprites.

Samurott came a gen too early. It really needs 3D animations to stand on its hind legs when attacking and drive the point home that it uses its shells like swords.

>>31489349
what if i think 5 6 and 7 are all trash?

>>31489359
And yet out of the type combinations they reused from Gen 4, they reused the type combo that had ALREADY been reused in that gen, resulting in one of the most infamous starters of all time. Hell, they should have given the Fighting type to Samurott instead.

>>31489375
I love the Gen 1 starters a LOT, but you can't deny that they'd be very boring and lackluster if they were introduced in a modern game. The Unova starters would have been passable for Gen 2 desu.

>>31489381
Not him, but honestly then I have to ask what the fuck do you like.

Gen 7 is the peak of modern game freak, the one that focuses on gimmicks and pandering.

While gen 5 is the peak of old game freak, that tried to improve the core game as much as possible.

>>31489132
Nah. I'll be honest, I went with Tepig as my starter for my B2 nuzlocke. I felt sad when he died, but not as sad as I have felt for other non-starter Pokemon.

Although seeing Emboar with Nate in that one trailer for B2W2 really has changed my opinion on Emboar overall. He looks like a cool bro.

>>31489402
adding shit for the sake of adding shit, such as hidden abilities, why even add them if you are going to make them aids to actually get especially nowadays with many mons, original bw forcing to use only new mons when a handful were just reskinned old ones, elite four complete disappointment until ghetsis, graphically it looks terrible compared to hgss jagged edges and pixelation everywhere, the regions overall design was boring, one big oval, starters were complete shit

>>31484688
>People using mons that make them win

GEE WIZ!

>>31489485
To be honest, one flaw of the Unova starters is that they had zero personality, unlike the Kalos and especially Alola starters. While Alola's starters disappointed in a similar manner to the Unova ones at first, their typings, signature moves and actual personalities make them among the cooler starters overall in the end.
>Incineroar is a heel wrestler that acts tough and cruel but actually isn't that bad and loves the attention it gets from kids.
>Emboar is a fighting pig that cares for its allies.

>>31489398
>I love the Gen 1 starters a LOT, but you can't deny that they'd be very boring and lackluster if they were introduced in a modern game. The Unova starters would have been passable for Gen 2 desu.

I agree. But I think that's their charm.

To be honest, I'm not a fan of what they're doing - mixing an animal with a human profession, even if it makes zero sense.

"It's a frog that's also a ninja!", or "it's an owl that's also an archer!". In gen 7 all 3 starters does it, and only Primarina does it well imo.

And now there's two factors for you to like, instead of just one. Back then it was "I like turtles". Now it's like "I like foxes but a magician fox sounds silly".

I'm probably not making much sense, I'm bad at expressing myself.

>>31489402
>Gen 7 is the peak of modern game freak, the one that focuses on gimmicks and pandering.

Fucking this x1000. Before Gen 6, new mechanics didn't felt tacked on; they felt more like natural progression. Yes, you could argue HAs are gimmicky, but I disagree because it helped bring older Pokemon back out and forge new niches.

Megas aren't as bad, or wouldn't be so bad if they weren't be handed out carelessly to popular favorites and pseudos. Not to mention lots of imbalance was brought as a result.

Z-moves are the most gimmicky thing introduced ever, and I cannot stand them. It stops being cool and fun when i'm forced to waste 2-3 more minutes watching my opponent Z-move against my last Pokemon. I know i lost, don't fucking rub it in asswipe.

>>31489498
>why even add them if you are going to make them aids to actually get especially nowadays with many mons

Because back then they were slowly releasing them. Each time a major one was released, the meta changed drastically. So online play was fresh instead of stagnant.

>>31489534
I agree. It's good to mix things up. Incineroar is very well-designed and has a lot of love put into it but is unappealing in some ways (kinda like Kylo Ren as a Star Wars villain), and a regular old quadrupedal fire tiger speedster would have worked better imo.

This, and Charizard was pretty much the definitive dragon Pokémon since the rare, unorthodox Dragonite and Kingdra were the only actual Dragon types before Gen III.

>>31489521
More personality doesn't necessarily make it better imo. In fact, that's what turned me away from the Alolan starters final evos. I don't want to raise a mermaid, Robin Hood or a wrestler as my starter. I'm quite content raising my generic fighting chicken or samurai sea otter, because I can latch a personality onto them myself. When the game forces a personality onto a character that is supposed to be personal to you, it's really not good. Maybe if I was a fan of Tiger Mask or wrestling, then yeah i'd probably be a fan of Incineroar.

But I am not a fan of either and cannot see Incineroar as something other than a heel wrestler. At least with Torracat, I can keep it from evolving and still lavish it as a housecat or something.

>>31489584
tl;dr: more personality =/= better or memorable
Remember when they tried giving Samus Aran a personality in Other M...even though she technically already had one through her actions instead of spoken dialogue?

Yeah, didn't turn out too well.

Your starter's actions should be what defines their character to you, the player. Not some personality trope or as >>31489534
says about the starters being more of a mix between an animal and a human profession.

I don't like Primarina, but lore-wise, it works the best out of the three. But it's still not my preference.

I think that one of the reasons that it sold poorly was because of emulation/flashcard. I remember clearly that when BW2 released in JP, everyone started looking for the roms and when we had, gbatemp released english patches through the days (I miss Daikenki, Sazandora and others). Since it was a japanese game, you could also get their, much better, Wifi events. There was no reason to buy the english game 6 months later. BW2 english patch was even faster.

Gen 5 it's my favorite. Main reason it's my favorite it's because I played at time (had online on emulators, could use Dream World, download events, everything), I learned competitive on it and BW2 has a lot of content. PWT feels like the closest thing that I've always been wanting on pokémon, the universal game, with all the gym leaders we faced through the years, then reaching to the champions. It's just awesome. I played the previous gens but casually, basically going through everything with my starter, the box legend, some giftmons and all that.

The 3Ds games are totally different. They are optimized, but easier, instead of optimizing and keeping some challenge. The marketing also changed, with focus on gen 1 to get back old school players and new ones too, since gen 1 has the most known pokémon. The focus on the game features, even if that leaves little to nothing to actually discover in the games, which is one of the reason people complain of no content. But it's also because they don't have much as the final games of a generation. Basically, on Gen 6 and 7, Gamefreak is playing safe. You can see that on Sun and Moon. Pokéride removes HMs but we still have roadblock through a lot of the game. Gyms are removed, but trials usually end up being 2~3 battles against miniors and then the totem, which is not different than Gyms.

>>31489584
It all depends.

The Kanto starters are blank, generic slates, but are beloved because of how iconic and memorable they are thanks to the franchise's early popularity.

The Unova starters are blank, generic slates, but are controversial because they have very few other redeeming features apart from visual design and HA's, and came immediately after a set of starters that had more interesting typings and movepools.

The Hoenn and Sinnoh starters began to have more lore and personality, but are loved because of their seniority, their relative viability, and the fact that they were the first set of starters to put a slight twist on the theme.

The Alola starters have a TON of lore and personality, but are controversial because they go too far in that direction and feel a bit too humanlike, along with the fact that none of them are very impressive in competitive play.

>>31489584
I had the advantage that by not looking into the new pokemon much (I knew what the starters looked like and a few others but not much) that I wasn't turned off by raising any of them by what it might become. I was a bit disappointed by the change of Dartrix into Decidueye though

>>31489648
>The Alola starters have a TON of lore and personality, but are controversial because they go too far in that direction and feel a bit too humanlike, along with the fact that none of them are very impressive in competitive play.
stop with this meme, the only "humanlike" starter is inceneroar, which is because it's a wrestler.

>>31488181
1 gen 6 starter is objectively better than all gen 5 staters combined. gen 6 might have shit games but gen 5 has shit starters.

The main reason Emboar isn't liked simply is because it was the 3rd Fire/Fighting starter in a row

>>31489671
Primarina has hair and looks like a mermaid though.
Decidueye gets a free pass (it's a non-anthropomorphic bird with a hood), but disappointed lots of people with its boring stats and S L O W speed after the initial hype.

>>31489683
I actually like its design the most out of the 3.

>>31489683
No

They took a quadruped and made it bipedal and shitty, a totally uninspired design

Then they did the same with Incineroar, which had a cool idea in it being a heel but it still ended up not being what anyone wanted

>>31489648
It truly does depend and comes down to taste. And opinions do change with time and seeing things from a different perspective (such as fanart, other official artwork like game trailers, the anime,etc). Emboar has had to grow on me. Same as Samurott did (actually remember disliking Oshawott, thinking it looked derpy, but seeing Dewott and Samurott as its middle and final evos respectively instantly changed that).

I could see Chesnaught being a bro, but that would require me to either go through Kalos again (ugh) or getting a Chespin egg when I do my Moon egglocke.

But at the moment, the Alolan starters are just going to remain as wasted potential and disappointment for me.

>>31489768
False, it is definitely the main reason. Besides bipedal works for Emboar

>>31489768
>which had a cool idea in it being a heel
Que?

>>31489768
Incineroar was designed with lots of love, but that meant giving it some characteristics that made it unappealing, like its bipedal, overly manly design and wrestler motif. It feels like an attempt to justify the previous Fire/Fighting starters more than anything else.

I appreciate the work and creativity that went into designing Incineroar, which is more than any of the Unova starters can claim, but it came at the expense of creating a Pokémon that'd be more likable and have more mass appeal. It's basically the Pokémon equivalent of Kylo Ren in that respect.

>>31489845
Yeah, have to agree. I love Litten, love Torracat. But Incineroar...just feels like a completely separate afterthought altogether.

>>31489845
It just doesn't look like a pokemon. He would be a fine NPC but it's supposed to be a starter not something that has a defined personality and appears one of a kind but that is easily replicated through breeding

Fucking Kartana and Nihilego feel more natural than it

>>31489886
Agreed. While it's probably not the case, it feels like Litten and Torracat were designed by a completely separate team from Incineroar, with both teams having completely different but well-developed ideas for what they wanted in a feline Fire starter. There's no natural progression from Litten to Incineroar, it feels like "oh wow it's suddenly a macho baddie".

That's one thing that the Tepig line has over the Litten line (a more natural progression), but it still falls short in most other aspects. The Torchic line is pretty much the gold standard of what a modern Fire starter should be, without taking Blaziken's typing and bipedal design at face value of course (since both elements were repeated ad nauseum).

>>31489886
Liteen and Torracat could easily have worked well as a two-stage evolution like Glameow-Purgly and Purloin-Liepard

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>>31489936
Something like this would have been ideal for Incineroar. A plain old fire tiger would be insanely popular. Our current Incineroar has more personality and effort put into it, but this is Pokémon, and lore/personality is never the most important part of a Pokémon's design unlike in more story-based franchises.

>>31489922
Definitely feels that way. Brionne to Primarina felt natural, and I guess Dartrix into Decidueye does a bit too (the Ghost typing feels too outta place still for me; keep messing it up cause bird-like = flying type usually).

But then Torracat to Incineroar makes no sense. Its front legs get buffer, but it ends up standing on its back legs in the end? What the hell GF?

>>31489936
Definitely. Well, thank god for Eviolite.

>>31490002
That said, lore and personality CAN add a lot to a Pokémon. As such, Incineroar is easier to appreciate than Emboar. While Emboar has no personality, it synergizes with its other shortcomings (recycled typing, ugly design, poor viability) in a bad way and makes it look even more lazily designed.

>>31490031
>the Ghost typing feels too outta place still for me
It threw me, didn't realise it changed type for ages

>>31490002
While this is a nice concept, I think it needs more details to make it a logical evo to Torracat. Such as the fire bell becoming a fire mane or collar.

Obviously would be more of a liger then (lion-tiger hybrid) but it would have been unique enough.

>>31490058
Good to know it's not just me then. I know what the combo is weak to, but with Decidueye, I end up second-guessing myself cause I have to remember it's not Grass/flying.

Personally think GF should have left it as flying type. Screw the "muh secondary triangle" type interaction BS. It technically doesn't even work because Ghost is neutral to Fairy.

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>>31490066
Agreed, it's just an example. It wasn't even designed for Litten in the first place. The point is, a sleek, menacing quadrupedal Fire-type tiger is one of those "super cool" concepts that "click" and is guaranteed to be a hit, just like a Dragon-type T. rex like what we got in Tyrantrum.

A Mega Incineroar would be really cool. There are lots of different directions they can take it in: they can claim it's gone into "feral/berserk mode" and make it the speedy quadruped people wanted all along, or they can make it something like pic related (a banchou) and add even more to its personality while giving it impressive stats to boot.

>>31490119
I think it's safe to say megas are kind of out though, as far as GF is concerned for now. It's all about the Z moves BS, which I find even worse than megas to be completely honest.

>>31490170
zmoves will get the same treatment megas got this gen when its over, they will make some new shiny gimmick to be forgotten every new gen

>>31490177
don't friggin' remind me, man ;-;

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>>31485004
You're probably twelve. Gen 5 was not that bad, get over yourself.

>>31490170
It isn't as appealing as Megas. Z-moves are hardly a selling point, and I'm just glad that Megas are still in the game as a mechanic. GF should revisit the concept since they're a good way to breathe new life into Pokémon that didn't meet expectations, like most of the Alola Pokémon including the starters as well as Unova Pokémon that fell by the wayside.

At least we got a new "spiritual Mega" in Ash-Greninja.

I'm about to buy a used White 2 for 15€. Is it worth? I'm halfway through Black 1 but feeling bored already.
atleast going to transfer everything the original owner had once bank comes out

>>31490185
It's a shame too, because Pokemon never had to be about gimmicks to succeed. Berries, held items, double/ triple/rotation battles, inverse battling, HAs...that all felt like natural game progression that we didn't realize we wanted.

Where did it all change?

>>31490193
sure it wasnt that bad compared to 6 and 7

>>31490207
Get Black 2 instead

>>31490208
double battle i can agree with, but triple/rotation battles were pretty much dead after gen 5

>>31490208
It's easier to market and sell things like Z-Moves than Gems.

Hell, they even made a toy bracelet with Z-crystals.

>>31490200
I hope if megas do come back, GF wises up and doesn't hand them out to already powerful Pokemon. You could even argue primal reversion was mega-like.

But knowing GF, and what with Sinnoh remakes coming at some point...no doubt Arceus and the dragon trio are gonna get some super special forms. Like we need more power creep.

>>31490230
Not seeing one for sale, living in a smaller yuro country
Why Black and not White

>>31490230
I was lucky af when getting Black 2. One store let me "steal" mons like Mewtwo and Bulbasaur off another B2 cartridge and unlock Challenge Mode with it, and another guy I met up with helped me get Charmander and Torchic onto my file. All that contributed to my enjoyment of the game.

>>31490241
My ten cents they'll be Z-Crystals that change their form when used, and as for Giratina, the Griseous Orb will be retconned into one.

>>31484679
- Unova

>>31484679
>my favorite pokemon games are Drayano's BW2 hacks
>GameFreak will never make a game that is as much fun for me as these
Why am I still buying these things

>>31490255
Because Black 2 follows on from Black. It would make more sense, plus gives you access to both legendary dragons

>>31490265
>>31490241
I can imagine all legendary specific items being retconned into Z-Crystals. Primal Reversion would be easy to retcon into just needed a fire/water/dragon crystal to active

>>31490308
Meh, I'll not wait for someone to sell black 2 especially when any good price mainline game gets sniped immediately

>>31490286
Askin' myself the same.

>>31490286
>>31490369
I keep hoping the next game will be better.

I've been disappointed 3 times now, XY, ORAS & SM.

New Pokémon are great though. Kartana is adorable in-battle.

>>31490342
Fair enough. I got stupidly lucky buying SS on ebay, paid a little over the odds for a used game but then got the following message:

"On 8 Jun 2016, you sent a payment to Josh Martin for 33.26 GBP.
The funds have been returned to your account.
This payment was returned for the following reason(s):
Josh Martin did not sign up for a PayPal account or did not complete the registration process."

I'd already gotten the cartridge

>>31489250
I don't see you trying to explain how gen 5 is even remotely good either, cocksucker.

>>31490445
I saw someone listed a SS cartridge for 10€ late one evening, sent a message 5 mins after the listing was put up
it was already sold, even though my country is small like I said

On a somewhat related note, does Dream World work and is it worth it?

>>31490479
>does Dream World work
Not anymore.
>and is it worth it?
Only thing I can think of it being worth it for is Superpower Spinda.

>>31490479
HGSS seems to be stupidly expensive and rare and I don't know why
>does Dream World work
No it doesn't

>>31490501
>>31490517
Shame. Why is it up in the store anyway

>>31488240
but ruby and sapphire are the worst games in the series

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>>31490552
>what is d/p

>>31490552
how the hell can u forget how to spell x and y dude they are 1 letter a piece

>>31488409
>>31488478
>>31488589
>>31488638
you people would play every game with the same team. and each of these teams would include charitard. of course you like the gens that made your shitlizard viable.

>>31490610
This is the very type of fan these posts are complaining about. And enjoying those gens for that reason (among others) is perfectly valid.

It isn't "incorrect" to enjoy having your favorite Pokémon made more viable in a certain gen even if that gen has shortcomings, I'm sure Unovabortions would say the same thing about some future generation that gives us a broken Mega Scrafty.

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>looks at sales numbers

>>31489175
they were so uninteresting, that one of them was a fucking meme. how history rewrites itself...

>>31489672
1 gen 6 starter is better than all but one other starter (firechicken) combined. nostalgiacancer charizard needed 2 megas and is still not playing. in that league. also serperior is very viable nowadays. more so than most other starters. so this "gen5starters are worst xDD"-meme needs to die

>>31489845
>I appreciate the work and creativity that went into designing Incineroar, which is more than any of the Unova starters can claim
laughable

>>31490944
due to a hidden ability that you couldnt even get from the start. shit tier mon needed it or it would be in the dumpster

>>31490944
not everything is about the meme that is competitive pokemon, 2 boring ass mono type starters and a type combo for the 3rd time in a row. it really isnt that hard to understand

>>31484679
no megas is nit a good thing

>>31491019
last time i checked protean was also a hidden ability. greninja was just lucky that gf used their little bugbrain once in a while and released the hidden ability starters.

>>31491084
This, releasing the HA Unova starters from the start would have helped Serperior's popularity a lot.

>>31491107
to this day i do not understand why they didn't use their horrible "dream world"-website/minigame to give us these. i mean knowing gf they would have made the starters jp-exclusive anyway. but with gts it wouldn't have mattered.

>>31489845
>I appreciate the work and creativity that went into designing Incineroar, which is more than any of the Unova starters can claim,
Speak for yourself. Outside of Emboar, Serperior and Samurott aren't living fursuits.

>>31491567
Furry aesthetic =/= effort/creativity.

Visually, Incineroar is about the same level as the Unova starters, which isn't bad at all. However, it has a rare typing, two signature moves, and an actual personality and gimmick.

>>31491058
>boring ass mono type
Honestly the notion that mono-type is "boring" disgusts me to a point where I can't argue.

This is probably one of the reasons that I can't open up to gen 6 and beyond. This dual type master race meme must stop.

>>31492231
Twice the types!
Twice the weaknesses!

>>31492366
>Twice the weaknesses!
Explain Swampert

>>31492718
>grass now hits 4x instead of 2x

>>31492804
>electric now hits 0x instead of 2x

>>31484679
>Introduced landorus and evolite
This gen should've never existed

>>31492893

Holy autism.

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>>31492893
>landorus
>eviolite

>>31490552
>>31490571
RS and DP are equally bad, that's why they -needed- updated versions.