Why exactly is Doubles considered inferior to Singles when it's

>>31350358
most likely because of a lack of familiarity. Most of us don't play competitive and you hardly use double battles in game. So everyone's familiar with singles, and outside of VGC, hardly anyone takes the time to learn a whole separate meta.

are you new?
seems the general consensus is that doubles are superior.

How is it more flexible and balanced?

The answer, ultimately, will always be because Singles is how most of the story is played.

>considered inferior
On what planet?

Singles is more popular because it's more casual friendly and is what you play during most the story, not because it's better. Most people who have played doubles will tell you it's easily better

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>>31350358
Because some people made wrong life choices and didn't play Pokemon Colosseum as their first pokemon game.

>>31350378
>most people who play doubles over singles, think doubles is better than singles
Holy shit no way.

>>31350358
Because Pokemon became popular when only singles existed. Only underage like >>31350392 want more focus on doubles.

>>31350358
You can't boost stats in doubles

>>31350501
What in the fuck are you talking about?

>>31350501
>what is belly drum
>what is geomancy

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>>31350501
That's where you're wrong, kiddo.

>>31350358
Because VGC is the only popular doubles format and it's trash because they limit your Pokemon even further by reducing it to 4 Pokemon and because of item clause.

I prefer singles since it makes me feel that I can control the game more. Both sides only have two choices, either attack or switch.

Doubles is fun, but more ofthen than not is decided by random factors that neither player intended when choosing their moves. I haven't really played much of doubles so take it as you may but that's how I feel.

>>31350568
>Legendary

>>31350437
Try reading again

>>31350358
because nobody plays doubles except the vgc fags

>>31350358
I can't stand protect shenanigans

>>31350483
>implying everyone gets into pokemon as a child.

>>31350686
Get good son, Protect in doubles is one of the main things that gives it a larger skill gap

>>31350630
uhhh singles is just as much decided by random factors than doublees

The only reason to play doubles is for the tournament money.

Of course, there is a limit on the number of winners so this is why Smogon's popularity dwarfs VGC's.

>>31350716
It's not like I don't understand it/why it's there but it just feels like it is a waste of time and just feels much more tedious to play

>>31350630
Playing doubles literally gives you twice as many options at any given time. Double Battles are all about matchup knowledge, knowing when to protect and predicting correctly.

Singles are this retarded mess of "I'm not super effective? better switch" and it goes on for twelve hours. In double battles, you can just protect and hit the threat with your partner... Unless your opponent predicts that, protects to bait your protect and attacks your partner. Or clicks a setup move.

Double Battles are have better balance (it is less likely to outright lose from one flinch or full para for example), more depth and more tactical options (attack, switch, protect).

Speed control is a lot more important in doubles too, since moves like Tailwind and Trickroom actually have a use (you don't need to switch for one), adding another layer of complexity.

>>31350686
Z-Moves blow through Protects and there are even sets on mons that make use of Feint

Sounds to me like you're just making an excuse of not wanting to adapt to a different kind of meta. Which is fine but bitch made

>>31350729
I mean how in doubles the outcome of the turns is more unpredictable since the amount of hidden information and choices are doubled.

sneaky pebbles too weak

>>31350770
How is protect a waste of time but switching five hundred times into a non-effective attack isn't?

The average doubles battle lasts for 5, 8 minutes, while singles can actually take an hour.

>>31350754
kys

>>31350358
Personally, I like Singles more because allow individual Pokemon to shine. Doubles are all about the synergy between Pokemon, while Singles require more strategy for each individual Pokemon.

>>31350818
>singles actually takes an hour

>>31350795
>switching is bad
>long battles are bad
Doubles players believe this

>>31350801
"Blows through" with a 75% damage reduction. Can I have some of what you're smoking?

>>31350835
yes and yes
kill yourself singles cuck

>>31350863
Compelling. So the core mechanics of Pokemon are bad to you?

>>31350835
I play Check 'Em Poker mostly and pivoting to a more favourable position is essential. I'd say the biggest difference is that entry hazards and weather/terrain is weaker in dubs, because there's less risk in switching into a weather/terrain resetter.

>>31350808
It's your responsibility to know what people could be running and providing an answer in advance. That's what makes team building challenging, you can't just mash 6 walls together and "one more game mom" it.

And that is just scratching the surface. Real VGC is fought in best of three, so you have a chance to adapt based on previously obtained information. That favors good players heavily over guys who rely on a spreadsheet one-trick-pony.

>>31350607
>item clause is a bad thing
Go fuck yourself, turd

>m-muh 6 lefties!

>>31350863
>being this shit at a children's game

KEK

>>31350883
>6 lefties
Gen 3 called, they want their retard back.

>>31350358
Singles are for faggot losers who only want to show off which pokemon they like. Why else is every singles battle 99,9999% switching to other mons.

get a fucking life singlesfags

>>31350907
Woops sorry I forgot HO is what's hots these days

M-muh six LOs!

Point still stands: if you are so unimaginative that you need to use repeated items when team building you are a scrub, plain and simple

>>31350358
I love both. I like how some mons that are shit in Singles are good in Doubles, and vice versa. They play differently from each other, and the fact that this is even possible within Pokemon is just cool as fuck to me.

>>31350849
That's enough to put something in range, especially since it can't protect the turn after.

More things that make Doubles tactically more advanced than singles: Fake Out, Feint, Follow Me, Rage Power, Spot Light, Friend Guard, Wide Guard, Quick Guard, Helping Hand, After You, Heal Pulse, etc...

>>31350931
>Having two Pokemon with the same item means you're unimaginative and a scrub
No, it means I want these two Pokemon that share the same role to be as optimal as possible. I don't want to be forced to gimp my teambuilding because of an outdated rule. Also nobody would run 6 of the same item nowadays, specially with Z-Crystals around.

>>31350931
>Why aren't you being more imaginative???
Because it's a competitive game, and I'm more inclined to make the viable decision over a "creative" one. That's like asking VGC players don't have the "imaginiation" to use Pokemon outside of the alola dex.

I prefer VGC myself, but holy shit dude, shut up.

>>31350931

HO also carries a scarfer, at least one choice wallbreaker, usually a sash lead, and the obligatory mega. That leaves 2 life orb users, give or take one at max.

>>31350940
What mons are good in Singles but bad at doubles?

>>31350883
>he thinks 6 lefties is even a thing on stall
Tell me more about how you have never played singles ever, anon.
>>31350931
>he thinks HO mons use Life Orb, much less 6
>he thinks HO is dominant
You are a laugh and a half anon.

>>31350881
> Weather/Terrain is weaker in Doubles
> He doesn't know about Double Fuck
> He doesn't know about Lele-chan/Metagross
> He doesn't know about Gigalith


Weather and Terrains are pretty amazing actually, considering you can get both up at the same time now thanks to the tapus.

>>31350985
What's good in singles right now?

Item Clause furthers the tactical superiority. Actually having to think what pokemon to give life orb, sash, assault vest, z-crystal, mega stone and correctly identifying which opposing pokemon carry these items adds depth.

Spam is the trademark of a poor strategist, no matter what game you play.

>>31350977
>>31350978
>>31350979
You people should look up the original meaning of scrub: a player who feels unfavored by a game's official rules so much he feels they should be changed/changes them.

Whether you find being called a scrub an insult is irrelevant: complaining against the official rules laid by the game is being a scrub

>>31350985
Greninja is far less usable in Doubles for example. It's less free to snowball and run train on niggas because it can be focused down by two opposing mons. It's still a really good mon, but far less overpowering. Even if it kills a mon before it can be doubled up on, it can only take out on at the time.

>>31351051

No one said anything like that. Are you okay, anon?

>>31351004
Why is Item Clause a problem then? You claim this stuff never happens yet you are against Item Clause. If them being applied or not is irrelevant at the end of the day what's the issue?

>>31351051
The original definition is related to a person who makes a mistake in a video game, which is such a bad mistake that it is clearly wrong, yet they persist in making it. The term derives from Street Fighter II, to describe some players that were so bad that they would mash their hands across the control pad, an act known as "scrubbing," because it relates to scrubbing a car or other object with a sponge. Thus they were deemed "scrubbers," or "scrubs" for short. Over time this term expanded throughout the gaming world, and then the real world, and lost its original meaning.

>smogonnites complaining about item clause

That you people can't comprehend why a handicap like this is necesary is why nobody except your autistic little community takes your metagame seriously

>>31351056
Greninja still has merit as the Mat Block user

>>31350985
Gliscor, Blissey and Skarmory are singles mons for example. Walls that can't do damage usually don't have a place, unless they can wall both physical and special or provide support.

For example, Cresselia is a VGC all-star, even though it doesn't do damage. Cress gets access to Thunderwave, Trick Room, Helping Hand, Icy Wind and almost impossible to one-shot kill.

Ferrothorn on the other hand, doesn't support very well, but is still popular in VGC. Once you eliminate fire and fighting types, you can use Leech Seed and Protect to widdle down your opponents, while Power Whip and Gyro Ball themselves are potent offensive threats on their own. All of this thanks to Ferrothorns even bulk, great ability and fantastic typing.

>>31351067
Restrictions are stupid.

>>31351108
May as well get rid of species clause then. Item clause is used for the same reason

>>31351092

>little
>biggest competitive community in Pokemon

Pick one buddy.

>>31351108
Do you think Species Clause is stupid, too?

>>31351067
Because it isn't needed, and there's nothing inherantly wrong with 6 of the same. It isnt abusive. If theres some busted spam of 6 of the same items on every mon, you would have heard about and have an actual example instead of "muh creativity"

>>31351108
I pray you weren't too late to play Battle Revolution Wi-Fi doubles...

>>31351092
It was necessary in gens 2 and 3 because back then everything slightly bulky (or not) had to run lefties and everything offensive had to run salac/band in gen 3 nowadays you just gimp one or two pokemon in the same team for a completely irrelevant reason.
It's a shitty outdated rule and nobody would defend it if anyone other than Gamefreak pushed it.

>>31351094
Mat Block isn't a very good move, because it doesn't block Fake out or Status moves.

Greninja in VGC 2014 and 2015 was usually used as a mixed attacker with Rock Slide, Gunk Shot and Ice Beam, because it out-sped and killed all the 4x ice weak things, Mega Gardevoir and Charizard Y. Item was preferrably a focus sash, to extend it's life span.

>>31351094
Yeah, Mat Block is pretty neat tech on the Ninja in doubles. Also like >>31351104 said. Mons that like to sit there and soak damage and do nothing generally don't do well in doubles. Unless it's Cress. Or nowadays; Celesteela..

>>31351138
A single sash in a flat rules match (which are 3v3 in sing les not 6v6) can turn a match around. Imagine if someone was able to bring more than one.

>>31351148
I guess its just where I play, but half the Greninja I see make okay use out of Mat Block.

>>31351152
Celesteela hits like a fucking truck though. The best comparison to Celesteela in my opinion, is Ferrothorn.

It should be noted that leech seed is a better move in doubles, because it discourages protecting and makes switching obvious, both things that can be taken advantage of easily, where as singles players would usually just switch anyway.

>>31351182
Okay? We aren't talking about 3v3 singles, we're talking about 6s, where hazards go up. 6 Sash is a meme in 6s. There aren't any highly abusive items in 6s.

>>31351229
What?

Item Clause are part of the Flat Rules core: the official set of rules of the game. 6v6 matches don't exist, you either have 3v3 in singles or 4v4 in doubles. Arguing against Item Clause is arguing against Flat rules as a whole.

>>31351212
Yeah, most Celesteelas I face are the bulky Leech Seeder type, so I keep forgetting it can hit like a truck. I have also seen people Leech Seeding their own partner mon. FOr more recovery and the fact that opposing Celesteela can't Leech Seed your mon anymore.

>>31351229
> 3v3 Singles

Atleast both VGC/Doubles and Smogon Singles players can both agree that 3v3 is a joke. Impostor Ditto literally wins me games in that format. Just revenge kill their Mega, and keep your Mega in the back. In ORAS I obliterated so many Mega Moms with my Ditto it's not funny anymore. Choice Scarf let's you win the speed tie, and if the opponent used a boosting mon it's even funnier.

>>31351247
????
I'm not talking about whatever this format is. This whole thing was about the lack of Item Clause in Smogon singles, the most popular singles, hence the "muh 6 lefties" thing. I have no clue how it would affect 3v3, but I would imagine there's less time to scout and you're less likely to have an appropriate counter to that. 3v3 singles sounds dumb desu.

>>31351145
You've got it the wrong way around, Smogon are the ones using an outdated rule, they used no item clause back in gen 3 since so many items were useless (and they had no clue about official rules back then anyway, so they just rolled with it). That's all changed now and we have a much larger selection of GOOD items, the game is better balanced by restricting one each per team.

>>31351329
It would probably be good practice to build teams as if Item Clause were active

>>31351290
>I swept low ladder teams with Ditto, the format must be a joke
wew

No one good would let Ditto copy boosts and sweep

>>31351329
Item Clause has existed since gen 2 and has come and gone during gen 3
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Rule_variants

It's a shitty outdated rule that can potentially gimp a Pokemon in a team for no good reason.
A retard would run 4 to 6 of the same item, a good player would run maybe two or three if absolutely necessary, an even bigger retard would defend item clause.

I eagerly await the day that battle royals become standard and triple battles make a comeback.

>>31350801
How about you play me in singles and see what happens? Kid

Smogonfags don't understand that restrictions breed creativity, which is why they always get so upset about bans.

Listen up fags, if only one pokemon has a life orb, the same goes for your opponent. Meaning that figuring out who the heavy hitter or sash user is before your opponent does gives you an edge.

You know, it's almost as if there's strategy involved... Not that singlesfags know what that word means.

>>31351033
Spinda

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>>31351461
>restrictions breed creativity,
?

>>31351461
This

>>31350702
what a sad life you must have

>>31351529
primals should have been restricted

by which i mean they were a fucking mistake

>>31351529
i think even GF and nintendo know that allowing cover legendaries into vgc was a mistake

>>31351461
You say that like scouting items is difficult. Like people are actually out here guessing which mon does good damage.
It doesn't matter and no one who actually plays singles wants it.

>>31351461
>Smogonfags don't understand that restrictions breed creativity
I would believe you if 90% of VGC teams weren't the same, and even the lead turn has mirror matches.

>>31351529
Yes, VGC 2016 had a bigger pool of available pokemon than VGC 2015, resulting in even less variety.

Point proven. Compare open formats with formats that only allow national dex, like 2015 with 2014.

Just look what is happening in VGC 2017. We have defined top tiers and tapus are 90% mandatory, but teams are still all over the place. Not even half the teams bring 4/6 of the same pokes in any top 8.

Once again, proving my point. VGC gets better the more things are banned, not the other way around.

>>31351628
Has there ever been an analysis that explored exactly how we got to this point in gen 6?

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>>31351461
>replace leftovers with sitrus on bulky mon that needs recovery
>replace LO with Z-Crystal or Choice item on hard hitter
>tfw to creative to be a smogonfag
It's a brurden to be this innovative, really.

>>31351398
I don't know what you mean, item clause was still in gen 3 and continued in every gen since

>can potentially gimp a Pokemon in a team for no good reason
So? Pokemon is a team game, and distributing items to members for different roles is part of it

>>31351649
All of those choices bring downsider and advantages with them you dumb fuck. You have to consider these during teambuilding, resulting in more strategic depth.

>>31351656
It's also a competitive game that should allow people to use their Pokemon at their absolute best without having to deviate on an optimal build because of a rule that was outdated 2 gens ago.

>>31351649
Why do that when I could simply not, and nothing of value is lost?
No really, why actually? What is actually gained by this? Why should people have to build suboptimally? I see no benefit.

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>>31351637
If you have to disallow and restrict many things to make something playable or varied it's fundamentally flawed.
In under any circumstances bigger pool=less variety should make sense.

>more restrictions means better competition!

literally democrat logic

>>31351673
But again, it's a team game, and item clause balances that aspect which is most important

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>>31351700
That is exactly how Smogon tiers operates. If you let Groudon and Kyogre into OU, what do you think would happen? You think Scizor would still be around?

Some pokemon are just better than others and removing certain pokemon from the game opens up space.

For example, Landorus-T has amazing stats, a broken Ability and a good typing. Just having it in the format discourages similar pokemon like Garchomp and Krookodile from appearing at all.

However, if you remove Landorus-T, players suddenly have to make a choice; Do I want the speed and hitting power of Garchomp or do I value the support Krookodile provides with intimidate?

This example btw is currently happening in VGC 2017. Lando isn't here and Garchomp and Krook are fighting the good fight. One pokemon that is superior at both their jobs being gone has enabled both to have a place in the format.

>>31350358
It's not
VGC is considered inferior because it's somehow even less healthy than smogon 6v6, due to the legendary allowance causing every team to be the two most powerful legendaries and a supporting cast of pokemon that revolve around those legendaries.
Both are braindead formats.
Standard doubles is better in every single way. Play it and free yourself from the shit.

>>31351817
How does it balance it? Versatility is exactly the same the only thing that changes is you have to use a slightly shittier item on your team for no good reason other than an outdated rule that was used to force variety before there were many good items.

>>31351917
>VGC is considered inferior because it's somehow even less healthy than smogon 6v6, due to the legendary allowance causing every team to be the two most powerful legendaries and a supporting cast of pokemon that revolve around those legendaries.
C U R R E N T

Y
E
A
R

>>31351964
Because forcing players to adapt and work around restrictions requires tactical prowess, where as spamming the same items over and over again only needs half a brain-cell and the quantity of items.

Can't run two life orb sets? Time to rethink one of your sets and make it work differently. Or swap out the pokemon.

Now imagine everyone does that and suddenly, you have 10 versions of the same pokemon with different functions across 10 players, rather than 1 of the same.

>>31351964
>the only thing that changes is you have to use a slightly shittier item on your team
Wow you really don't get what team means. It's obvious you've never played with item clause if you think you just replace a duplicate with a shitter item instead of re-thinking how the team works.

you go against a team with porygon2 with eviolite, chansey with eviolite, toxapex with black sludge, a-muk with black sludge, slowbro with leftovers, and avalugg with leftovers

this is why the same items are banned

>>31352077
That team gets plowed by so many different things it's funny.

>>31351917
No one said anything about VGC retard. Also Smogon 6v6 is literally the single most unhealthy meta due to it being based around the decisions of a handful of people rather than a legitimate evolving metagame.

>>31352077
Psst: that's a shit team. Thats the weakest, worst constructed Stall I've ever seen in my life.
Try again

>>31352077
Would be a shame if you had a poison pokemon with knock off

>>31352109
and vgc is decided by a single sweaty jap and for the rest of the year people will play until they eventually discover the best core in the game, worlds arrives and top 5 teams share four pokemon with maybe some unique snowflake will use a rarely used mon that counterpicks the rest of the meta

>>31352109
You do realize you get to vote on all this shit in Smogon, right? You just have to prove you're good.

>>31352077
that's not why same items are banned in vgc at all lmao

same items are banned because in doubles you can make stuff like weakness policy and red card work but in general they're slightly worse than leftovers/life orb/choice memes

encourages creativity, i'm in love with weakness policy metagross alongside my gigalith because i can EQ under trick room with gigalith and suddenly sweep with metagross

In the end, none of it matters, because the Pokemon people are pushing double battles by giving the doubles people more and more tools to play with, while completely disregarding singlesfags. VGC is what they choose promote and balance their games around.

Cry out, smogoons; It doesn't matter how much you love your shitty switchfest formats, because Nintendo will never give you a single cent of their precious price money.

>>31350635

Anon it's balanced and flexible, I swear.

>>31350483
Colosseum came out in 03... Even if he was 6 when he played it he'd be like 20 now.

>>31351867
Lando and Garchomp are literally both OU and they both fill out different roles within a team.
Smogon tiers operate in a way so weaker pokemon get to excel at something in lower tier because they are not good enough for OU. Doesn't mean you cannot use them in OU though. So smogon pretty much promotes variety, while keeping things that are obviously really over powered up in ubers.

>>31352418
Plus the broken shit is still usable, just in a different tier. Things not playable in VGC are just gone.

>>31352418
VGC is not banning the lower tier pokemon in open formats, it's simply the cold hard truth that they suck compared to the good ones.

Garchomp is in OU because it's good in singles. In VGC, it's worse than Lando-T in every single way. Garchomp is a bulky beatstick, while Lando-T is a bulky beatstick with intimidate, superior typing, better coverage and easy to slot.

Smogon OU for example doesn't have to worry about VGC 2015 Mega Kangaskhan. Landorus-T is a soft-check to it, because it can Superpower it for good damage and at the same time enable it on your team (Kang only has a fighting type weakness, which means Intimidate makes that weakness irrelevant).

Different metas, different examples, but at the core it's the same thing: If you allow overpowered pokemon to join, they will inevitably take the crown, because they're just better. Nothing in OU could beat Kyogre or Groudon, so if they were legal, they would obviously be on every team. Which is exactly what happened in VGC 2016.

>>31352489
Because running 14 different tiers of smogon at the same official world championship tournament would be possible? Can you please think about this some more before you spout it out again?

>"So, this guy won 10-1 in AG, while this guy got 10-1 in OU and this girl scored 10-1 in UU. They are all winners now, I guess?"

>>31352559
You're missing a point. Smogon tiers let the weaker Pokemon shine in their own way. VGC is just one tier, they are just worthless, some of them will only ever see play in very limited dex formats.

>>31352612
Or each tier having separate tourney slot?
Instead of doing junior,senior etc
Just do it OU,UU,NU?
You don't even need to do it for all the tiers but the main/most popular ones.

>>31352612
Literally what does that have to do with what I said.
>Pokemon banned from OU have a format where they are playable.
>Pokemon not included in the current VGC do not have a current VGC format where they are playable.
Literally what does this have to do with tournaments.

>>31352620
Which is the perfect way of balancing it. Sometimes, these pokemon are good and sometimes they're not. It's keeping things fresh and forces you to adapt as a player.

Also, again, how the fuck are you supposed to provide price support and a world championship title for 10+ subformats of Smogon at once? And where are you even holding an event of such size?

One format. One World Championship. Focusing on one thing alone allows for better balance.

>>31352668
>10+ subformats of Smogon at once?
http://www.smogon.com/tiers/
I don't know I can count up to 5 main ones, excluding doubles/vgc and little cup.
Gamefreak can host 3 separate tourneys for age groups then 3 main tiers wouldn't be a problem?

>>31352660
Because VGC is a tournament format, you goon? It's created for the sole purpose of the World Championship Series.

>>31352640
Or you just have one tournament, because that focuses the player concentration, is easier to balance/manage and doesn't confuse the people watching the stream.

Also, throwing 12 year olds into the same pot as adults who played at the top scene for YEARS. Great idea, I'm sure they will win.

>>31352668
>Also, again, how the fuck are you supposed to provide price support and a world championship title for 10+ subformats of Smogon at once?
Who even said this?

>>31352715
Why are you excluding Little Cup? According to this Smogon logic, every pokemon should get it's proper spot in the spotlight and not playing with babyform trash would hurt muh diversity.

>>31352715
It's really just Ubers, OU and RU anyway. >>31352719
>age makes you good at vidya

>>31352751
I'm excluding Little Cup because diluting it to the most popular tiers. Calm your autism. VGC is neither balanced or varied, it's heavily outdated format that gamefreak refuses to balance in any way.

>>31352757
Age = Experience

"But I heard about this one child that invented a nuklear reactor at the age of 4!"

How nice. That's one child. Out of billions. The adults registering for masters tournaments have a superior understanding of the game to the juniors in every single way. It wouldn't be balanced at all to pit them against each other.

>>31350358
>Why exactly is Doubles considered inferior to Singles
Only by literal children.

>>31352775
Except when it is. Is Verlisify winning tournaments or is it Wolfe Glick?

All players use the tools they have available to their best and the superior players comes out on top.

That's not balance? What is balance then?

i like doubles because i don't have time for fifty+ turns of switching, setting sneaky pebbles, switching, and defogging/spinning my opponents sneaky pebbles

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I used to play only singles, but now play some of both. Honestly, singles is a lot more straight forward, and you don't have to predict your oponent as much as doubles. I prefer doubles because it isn't as easy as switching out when you aren't super effective against what you're fighting. Doubles is also pretty good at finding "synergies", and I really enjoy that too.

Both singles and doubles have their merits, but I feel like doubles is the way to go in competitive battling. That's just my opinion though.