If there was an ice version of Stealth Rocks that only Ice-type

>>31331786
>if there were other versions of the single best move in the game, would its users be more viable?
Of fucking course you absolute retard

Sneaky snowballs

>>31331793
Well, people thought the same thing for Sticky Web but its users are still NU/PU tier.

>>31331812
Sticky web is just speed, not damage.

>>31331809
Incognito Icicles

>>31331786
If it worked the same way that Stealth Rocks does, Garchomp would literally fall to UU and Landorus would drop from 30% usage to 5%

>>31331812
Except Galvantula, Shuckle and Galvantula are the only sticky webbers I've ever seen used.

>>31331812
It would still make them more viable than they are now. Wheter it would make them actually useful is another thing. Weavile, Froslass and Cloyster come to mind as possible setters, but aside from Froslass they're used already so that's not saying much

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>>31331831
>Garchomp
>UU
Oh I would love that

>>31331786
Only if it would be exclusive for Ice-Types. Otherwise it would just be a buff to Water since they get all Ice moves anyway.

>>31331859
Personally, I was thinking that it would go only to Pokemon that actually LOOKED like they were made of ice. Avalugg, Cryogonal, Glaceon, Glalie and Frosslass would be most likely candidates if not all Ice types can get it.

>>31331809
>>31331827
These names made me laugh harder than they had any right to

>>31331831
I wonder about Salamence, Flygon and Shaymin Sky though

>>31331831
And Tapu Fini would replace Landorus as most used Pokemon. Because defog would become even more mandatory

>>31332106
All would be neutered. Flygon to NU, Salamence back down to UU or at most RU. Same with Dragonite. Shaymin Sky would finally come down to OU. And every Grass type would be fucked unless fire types melted the hazard

>>31331786
>Ice types
>setting up
No, what they need are some god damn resistances
>resist water
>resist flying
>resist dragon
>resist grass
There, was that so hard?

>give ice a copy of a useless move in the only format that matters
>more viable

What if that Move melts during Sunny Day and allows for stronger Electric type attacks

>>31334172
>stealth ice that becomes water sport in sunny day
I want more jank shit like this, just make all of the gimmick teams have connections like this

>>31332776
>resist grass
Nah, leave grass alone.
It has enough of its own problems to deal with.

>>31334481
Going from hail to harsh sunlight should set Water Sport, and going from a sandstorm to rain should set Mud Sport.

>>31331786
No because Smeargle would just use it.

>>31334615
YES

>>31331827
Hidden Hailstones

>>31331786
No. Some bulky water would learn anyways.

>>31331825
Sticky Web breaks HO into chunks, SR just does damage.
The difference is Web only useful when lead, and web leads are frail or taunt bait, and all of them have easily see-able in preview.
Oh and Black Ice would only really be better against the upper-tier Dragons, aka the only reason Ice is used as coverage anyway, and would have distribution and usage issues similar to Webs. SR would still be better.

>>31334615
My favorite part is that both of those would actually nerf shit that rain and sun use

>>31332776
Water and ice should resist each other like fighting and bug do and ice should also resist fairy (in some fairy tales fairys are weakend by cold)

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>>31334680
Black Ice! That was the word I was looking for! Thanks

>>31336936
Fairy no longer resists Bug, weak to Ice
Rock resists Electric, now removes Stealth Rock when sent out (like how Poison types absorb Toxic Spikes)
Steel is now weak to Electric (it conducts Electricity)
Water weak to Poison
Fire types destroy Black Ice when sent out

There. Buffs for the weak types (Ice, Bug, Rock, Fire) and nerfs for Steel and Fairy.

>>31334653
Furtive Frost

Yes, but ALSO more cancerous.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Smogon banned it for hurtinf their precious Lando and Chomp.

>>31331786
>would the typing be more viable?

No, only a few Ice-type mons would be viable. The rest would still be trash.

>>31338513
So...kinda like Rock types with Stealth Rock, eh?

>>31332741
What if even defog doesn't remove them

>>31339376
Yes
The problem with Ice and Rock types is that they have stats built for defense and bulk, but types that make themselves too vulnerable to common offensive typings.
Ice could be SE on everything in the game and you would still have no reason to use an ice type over a bulky water that knows ice beam, or a fast psychic that knows it.
basically offensive buffs make something more useful for coverage, while defensive buffs make 'mons with that typing more useful.

>>31331812
>Opponent sent out Landorus
>Landorus loses half HP

>>31339483
>Landorus in UU due to not being able to run U-Turn

>can't be defogged
>ignores levitate
>if hail is active, the switching in pokemon is frozen immediately

>flying/dragons would lose 75% of their health on switch in when combined with rocks

>>31339483
>sending out lando-t with theoretical Black Ice up.
>not having removal anyway, regardless of team, like Drill, who beats pretty much every Ice type
>not putting pressure on obvious theory ice type setter just be having an offensive team anyway
>letting free hazards happen, but especially from a fucking Ice type
I'm going to say this theory player is bad.
>>31339489
>U-Turn is why Lando is the most used pokemon ever.

>>31339560
Well, now they get to know how Bug/Flying, Ice/Flying and Fire/Flying types have been feeling.

>>31339591
>>U-Turn is why Lando is the most used pokemon ever.
it's not why entirely, but it's a pretty big factor, being able to u-turn intimidate in and out without getting hurt

>>31339658
If Lando took 50% from a hazard belonging to an entire set of bad defensive pokemon, already unilaterally pressured by the existence of rocks, such a type that is resisted by the most of the common removal mons in OU, I can almost guarantee you it will not drop from OU. You will see more Mamoswine, and I bet will lose around 10% usage from people who bought the "hazards kill viabilty" meme, but drop to UU, and actually stay there? Hell no. Chomp probably wouldn't even drop.

If this theory Ice hazard had good distribution like Rocks, maybe.

>>31339624
You say this as if Dragons don't have enough BS to deal with past gen 6
Does nobody consider the possibility that gen 5 dragon only had to be nerfed offensively and not defensively? Or that Dragons were only so good because Ice 'mons were useless?

>>31339781
but there's plenty of good setters; weavile, mamo, froslass, a-ninetales, kyurem-b and cloyster are all perfectly viable setters

>>31339814
Dragon is not treated worst than Bug and Ice. It's still a fantastic type.

>>31331786
>Genies, Garchomp and Salamence dies
It would be more viable than SR. It would change the metagame completely.

>>31339964
I won't say worse than Bug or Ice, but aside from top kek dragons like Chomp and Salamence the type is lagging behind things like fighting, ground, or fairy

>>31339852
But these are all pokemon that either hate spending a turn doing nothing or are difficult to get in safely outside of a revenge situation or lead
Weavile gets killed easy by common offensive mons, is rock weak, could work if it scares something out, but what move are you taking out?
Mamo is one of the good ones, already a lead, but now has to choose between Rock and BI or remove a critical part of it's movepool, and Rocks is still better, realistically
Froslass is another good one, already a lead, doesn't have to choose or sacrifice any moves. Too bad it's taunt bait.
A-Ninetales is almost always getting 1 turn when it comes out before it gets threatened out by a Steel move, and Veil is better than Black Ice imo, plus it has to sacrifice either Encore or a STAB attack to fit in on. But if you really want, sure.
Kyurem-B is a mon that forces a lot of sacks because of it's high power and meh speed, so things are going to stay in and attack it in almost every situation. It's already a mon that sending out completely removes all of your muhmentum, so I don't see it happening.
Cloyster is another good one. People are actually forced out by Smash, and it could be run defensively I guess, not rock weak.
So that's 4 that we can call okayish, and only one of them is seen semi-regularly lead in OU, right now. A-Tales comes in after something dies and REALLY wants to veil before Scizor or Gross punches it, very common mons. It's not gonna kill Chomp or Lando, if anything it'll be like Webs, where you just counter lead it on reaction if you can, or kill the one obvious setter and defog later.
>>31339964
Dragon is a garbage offensive typing, carried entirely by the stats of the mons with the typing. There's a reason nothing with an option not to runs Dragon non-STAB.

Weavile would be quickbanned