>linear as shit >small pokemon selection >extremely

>>31319218
It's better than the previous games. That's it.

>>31319218
It may not be as good as many generations, but it was great in comparison to the whole Gen 6. It's a step in the right direction.

Listening to you austists complain about what is literally a children's game is fucking pathetic. Maybe the games aren't as difficult because you're not fucking 10 anymore.

Still better than X/Y.

atleast better than gen 5

>>31319218
because you suffer from an addiction.

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>>31319293
>getting angry people disagree with you about a children's game

I thought it was a majority opinion (save for that one faggot that keeps making the one hate thread and STILL hasn't killed himself) that these games are by no means perfect in any way shape or form, but definitely a step in the right direction and abslutely better than gen 6.

Personally I don't hate any gen, I love all of Pokemon.

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>>31319218
>Why do I love this game so much? Everything about it tells me I should hate it, yet I can't put it down.

>>31319427
Unfortunately that is the opinion of the masses.
Despite the fact GF haven't made any particularly major changes to the game or formula outside of shuffling a few things around.

>>31319218
the waifus

>>31319218
>plays everything completely safe; no risks to be found with the game design or story
they literally had a woman morph with a Pokemon and say that she was in love with them

also,
>linear
holy shit JRPGs with levelling are supposed to be linear, it's a basic rule of designing maps for games like Pokemon.

>>31319218
Because it's the most recent Pokemon game.

>>31320319
yeah but pretty much everyone hated XY and ORAS

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>>31319326

>>31320306
>holy shit JRPGs with levelling are supposed to be linear
You're pretty new to JRPGs aren't you.

>>31319218
>>small pokemon selection
have you ever played older versions?

>>31320468
I think he means new Pokemon.

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>>31319218
Because you're half falling for the "its a shit" meme

>linear as shit
Pokemon has been linear for the last 10 years, get over it.
There's also a greater emphasis on story in these games.

>small pokemon selection
The real problem is not being to get half the new 'Mons with ease.
They're either absurdly late game like Crabrawler, Vikavolt, etc, or 5% encounter rate like Passimian and A-Vulpix/Sandshrew.

>extremely self-masturbatory with the features it pushes in your face every five seconds
Boo hoo
They want it to be accessible to kids

>tedious petting minigames that take time out of real gameplay
You don't have to pet your Pokemon.

>at least one unskippable cutscene per room
Story. I personally love it.

>arbitrary roadblocks everywhere
Always been in Pokemon. They're handled better in this one than, lol a line of Psyduck or lol, we're just dancing here for no reason, one day we'll be gone for no reason!

>plays everything completely safe; no risks to be found with the game design or story
UBs, Z-crystals, Alolan forms, story, Kukui, and Trial Captains all beg to differ

>legendary music is sub-par
That's just like your opinion man


Personally I agree that they did a lot of shit wrong.
But I also feel that they did a lot more things right. I love these games and, so far, they are my favorite in the series.

>>31320306
>holy shit JRPGs with levelling
As opposed to JRPGs that don't?
What exactly are you talking about?

>>31320356
Candied dog shit is better than Gen 5.
Hell, the pace of gameplay in Diapear is better than Gen 5.
That doesn't include based Golurk and Galvantula

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>>31320514
You are countering OP's opinions with "well, I disagree so you cant think these things are bad"

Why?

Also:
>UBs, Z-crystals, Alolan forms, story, Kukui, and Trial Captains all beg to differ
Legendaries, Type Gems with awesome marketing cutscenes, form changes, a normal story, a regional professor, and renamed gyms are risky? I mean, It's silly to say this after me criticizing you for countering opinions with opinions but absolutely none of that is risky. In fact, slight changes that seem large is the definition of playing it safe.

>>31319218

Not to mention that you can't get a good chunk of mons until Post Game and you can't even evolve Poliwhirl or Slowpoke into Politoed/Slowking. With Politoed you have to do the extremely mundane task of SOS chaining while raining.

Meanwhile, Gumshoos, Raticate, Pelipper and Fearow are on half the fucking routes of the game. But with the exp share being what it is, it allowed me to use pokemon that'd i'd never use in a standard playthrough.

>>31320306
>holy shit JRPGs with levelling are supposed to be linear, it's a basic rule of designing maps for games like Pokemon.
Are you fucking retarded?

>>31320306
>holy shit JRPGs with levelling are supposed to be linear,

Gamefreak apologists, I swear.

>>31320399
>>31320517
>>31320851
>>31320889
I've literally worked in game design on JRPGs before anons

>>31320912

You literally haven't. Don't try to impress a bunch of anonymous on a Taiwanese Claymation website.

>>31320514
>Pokemon has been linear for the last 10 years, get over it.
>There's also a greater emphasis on story in these games.
Yes yes, we know all because japs complained about Sinnoh blah blah, How is that an excuse for a region more linear than Unova 1 but with less exploration?

>The real problem is not being to get half the new 'Mons with ease.
Agreed which is also why they should have had more new Pokemon in addition to reworking the encounter rates to balance things out a little giving the game far more variety.

>They want it to be accessible to kids
Accessibility =/= forcing down your throat

>You don't have to pet your Pokemon.
You do if you want to reach level 100 and use hyper training within the next year.

>Story. I personally love it.
Love or hate it there's no reason for it not to have a skip button for people who just want the gameplay. For example I love the story in Xenoblade but unskippable cutscenes would lower the replay value in the game considerably and turn off more players than a JRPG usually does.

> They're handled better in this one than, lol a line of Psyduck or lol, we're just dancing here for no reason, one day we'll be gone for no reason!
Actually no, with the Psyducks they came from the surrounding area and were causing problems for everyone for the guys that was something you're apparently not accustomed with, a joke.

In Sun and Moon there are roadblocks in completely nonsensical places like a major road into the city.

>UBs,
Generic Pokemon with a new name. Not exactly a game changer or anything new.
>Z-crystals,
A Gimmick that GF knows doesn't affect gameplay in any meaningful way. The only thing it's there for is to sell the toy.
They also act as badges in the case of the Captains
>Alolan forms,
Recolors. Nothing new.
>story
Gen 5 says hi
>Kukui
A professor is nothing new.
>and Trial Captains all beg to differ
Literally gym leaders by a different name

>That's just like your opinion man
As is yours friendo.

>>31319218
It's ok OP we all had shit taste at some point in our lives

>>31320912
Well my dad is the president of nintendo and my mom is the president of gamefreak and they told me that they wanted waifus to get more aging weebs into pokemon.

This still counts as posting a boxart thread anon

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>>31320912
>I literally never played shit like Romancing Saga 2 but I worked on JRPG game design haha I swear guys!

>>31320912
Translation: "I've never played an RPG outside of Final Fantasy and Pokemon."

>>31319265
To a point I agree.
Ironically, ORAS did better in postgame content, and it was almost a rehash of XY when it came to mechanics. It had much more pokemon selection, a breeding route made just for bikes, the story was short, there were hundreds of legendaries to get, the cutscenes weren't unbearably long, and it brought back the secret bases.

I will say, aside from that roadbump, it is better than Gen 6.

>>31319218
You have just described the Gen 5 games, expcept I do still dislike them due to these very reasons. They were as much of a text simulator as the Mystery Dungeon titles.

>>31321076
>You have just described the Gen 5 games
Well to apply it to gen 5 you have to remove a few points.

It doesn't have a small selection of Pokemon so you can't have that.
It doesn't shove features in your face so that's gone.
Refresh or Amie wasn't a thing so that's gone.
There were only a handful of cutscenes per town and they didn't drag on because of the poses and expressions like SM had.
There weren't many "arbitrary" roadblocks but roadblocks in general were there.
It made several risky moves the first being no old pokemon in the main game and a larger emphasis on story.
And opinion.

Which leaves you with "linear as shit".

>>31320776
Why did I refute his points?
Its called debate anon.

>UBs
I could type a whole shpiel about how different they are, but you already know this. From marketing, to story, to ingame stats and ability. Feel free to ignore it if you want though.

>Z-Crystals
These are a huge game changer in Doubles. They can't be knocked off, they stop stat decreases on things like Superpower, and they allow Pokemon to one shot others that they previously couldn't. There's also the surprise factor. And yeah, marketing.

>Alolan Forms
Introduced a new type of form that breathed new life into old shitmons and set up potential for more regional forms.

>Kukui
Masked Royale
Also having him so involved in the story, especially the league, sets him apart and makes him more memorable than almost any other professor

>Trial Captains
Not a huge departure from gyms, sure. But this is legitimately the first region without gyms which have been a staple of the series for the past 20 years. On top of that, Totem Pokemon and Kahunas are new aspects of the Pokemon journey.

>>31320939
See >>31321183
You don't have to like with the truth acknowledge it

>>31320939
>>Z-crystals,
>A Gimmick that GF knows doesn't affect gameplay in any meaningful way. The only thing it's there for is to sell the toy.
like mega evolution right?

>>31319218
>>legendary music is sub-par
The Tapu theme is kinda cool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKr616BOslU

>>31320912
>I've literally worked in game design on JRPGs before anons

>makes claim
>zero examples and zero proof
>does not elaborate on previous points

You're not wrong that many (especially late 90s - mid 00s) JRPGs are indeed highly linear and present merely the illusion of deviation or choice. Looking at any Tales or FF entry is proof enough. However you didn't handle your point in the right way at all, merely used a lame appeal to your own alleged authority & experience. I'll accept what you say ... IF you provide something to back any of it up, Nintendo-Ojisan.

>>31321183
>Kukui
He's FAR AND AWAY better than fucking Sycamore.

Seriously, he got shit done right then and there. He didn't look like a lazy professor, he battled, he had a personality, and he's extremely hunky, making him hotter than some stinky 5'o-clock havin' beanpole we had to deal with in France.

>>31319218
>>legendary music is sub-par
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dkK9r57BNk
sounds more than epic enough especially that its your's theme

>>31321183
The argument has shifted to something you can more easily refute, but the point is that none of those changes are RISKY. Some may be different, but not risky for them to do.

A flashy nuke move that has awesome animations you can market is not risky.

creating new forms, but only for the generation that the franchise likes paying attention to for marketing reasons is not risky.

A professor that is involved in the story a lot is not only not risky, it's not unique. Rowan and Juniperdo the same thing. In fact, Rowan told off the evil team like a badass.

Changing the formula from gyms to Trial Captains, but then making them almost the same anyways is having your cake and eating it too. It's creating a change to bring people in without actually doing much different.

I am not hating on the games, I liked them well enough (not in my top 4 though) but those arent risky things. It's a 20th anniversary game that played it so safe that it got rid of all the dungeons in the overworld to stick to advertising the 3D environments instead.

>Why did I refute his points?
sure, but saying he's falling for some meme implying that he's wrong, then just saying "well, it's just your opinion" in the end seems a bit pointless. Though I guess it did stimulate the debate

As long as we're here, no, this game is aggressively linear with too many cutscenes and too many important things hidden behind really bad features. Fuck Festival Plaza and paying for the National Dex btw.

>>31321183
>I could type a whole shpiel about how different they are
You could, but it would basically amount to meaningless jargon.

The Marketing?
It was marketed to be different just like each and every legendary before it.

Story?
Pokemon from another world.
Right, how is that any different from say, Pokemon gods or a Pokemon that split from one single Pokemon? In fact their origin is somewhat similar to Giratina who existed in another world.

In game stats?
Well, I don't exactly know what that would prove to anyone.

Ability?
Essentially moxie that changes specialty depending on the mon.

What's new here?

>These are a huge game changer in Doubles.
They really aren't. In fact it's a complete waste of an item slot for a single use nuke when you can just use a mon that can get the kill with more reliability. Their only real use is on gimmicky sets like Z-splash and what not.

>Introduced a new type of form that breathed new life into old shitmons and set up potential for more regional forms.
So, nothing particularly new.

>Also having him so involved in the story, especially the league, sets him apart and makes him more memorable than almost any other professor
Which is your opinion funnily enough. With that said him being so involved in the story ironically made him blend in with your other generic orbiters and stand out less. If it were just the usual spiel and they had him as Masked Royal he would have been considerably more memorable. Kind of like how there are two professor Juniper in Unova.

> On top of that, Totem Pokemon and Kahunas are new aspects of the Pokemon journey.
Totems yes, somewhat.
Kahunas are just specialist trainers that become the Elite 4 for the most part. So all in all you have your gym leaders and the E4.

So what's new here again?

>>31319218
>linear as shit
Every Pokemon game post Gen 2

>small pokemon selection
Third highest behind B2W2 and XY, if we're talking pre-Hall of Fame

>extremely self-masturbatory with the features it pushes in your face every five seconds
Every Pokemon game explains the features at some point

>tedious petting minigames that take time out of real gameplay
u wot? Refresh? It's not tedious, entirely opitional, and I loved using it throughout the journey.

>at least one unskippable cutscene per room
This was shit

>arbitrary roadblocks everywhere
Every Pokémon game

>plays everything completely safe; no risks to be found with the game design or story
Almost every Pokémon game except B/W

>legendary music is sub-par
Meh

The answer to your question OP, is that most of your complaints are present across every Gen, and most of the complaints are also nitpics or non-problems.

Sun and Moon were great games.

>>31319265
This

>>31319326
Wrong.

>>31320514
>They're either absurdly late game like Crabrawler, Vikavolt, etc, or 5% encounter rate like Passimian and A-Vulpix/Sandshrew.
Nothing wrong with rare/late-game encounters in Pokémon/RPG's in general. Game would be much more boring without that stuff.

>>31320939
>Yes yes, we know all because japs complained about Sinnoh blah blah, How is that an excuse for a region more linear than Unova 1 but with less exploration?
everyone complained about Sinnoh because Sinnoh was terribly designed. It forced you to backtrack through dungeons and other parts of the map, something you should never do in a JRPG with set levelling.

>Agreed which is also why they should have had more new Pokemon in addition to reworking the encounter rates to balance things out a little giving the game far more variety.
so them making finding new mons a challenge is a bad thing?

>Accessibility =/= forcing down your throat
you get about 30 seconds of dialogue about the Pokefinder. Pelago and Refresh are completely optional, you dont even have to access them during the story at any point. what do you mean?

>You do if you want to reach level 100 and use hyper training within the next year.
not an argument. that anon said "you don't have to pet your pokemon" and you don't.

>Love or hate it there's no reason for it not to have a skip button for people who just want the gameplay. For example I love the story in Xenoblade but unskippable cutscenes would lower the replay value in the game considerably and turn off more players than a JRPG usually does.
so you're saying that there should just be a skip button for every cutscene? are you serious?

>>31321398
(cont)
>Actually no, with the Psyducks they came from the surrounding area and were causing problems for everyone for the guys that was something you're apparently not accustomed with, a joke.
I don't get the point you're making here. If it's that "the game gave the psyduck a reason to be there", then that's rididculous, since the game also gives an explanation to why Tauros is there, why you can't pass the sudowoodo, etc.

>n Sun and Moon there are roadblocks in completely nonsensical places like a major road into the city.
t h i s i s i n l i t e r a l l y e v e r y p o k e m o n g a m e s i n c e g e n o n e

>Generic Pokemon with a new name. Not exactly a game changer or anything new.
they're still new. they have new methods of stat distribution, new stuff like auras, new pokeballs, and even a ton of lore behind them.

>A Gimmick that GF knows doesn't affect gameplay in any meaningful way. The only thing it's there for is to sell the toy.
They also act as badges in the case of the Captains
this is ridiculous and you know it. Z-Moves were as big a part of the game as mega evolutions in XY were, in both the story and the actual battles.

>Recolors. Nothing new.
how is a new design "nothing new"

>Gen 5 says hi
S/M had a much more complicated and better written story in general than gen 5. it has dynamic characters that grow and develop, and the writing (especially for team skull) is superb.

>A professor is nothing new.
but a professor that is constantly appearing in the story, who is interesting, who does something other than give you your starter and dex is new. and no, Rowan does not count.

>Literally gym leaders by a different name
but trials have you do a puzzle and fight a single totem mon supported by SOS mons. that's probably the most different way of doing a boss battle I could think of.

>>31321392
>>31321398
>>31321413
>this fucking formatting
Go back to rebbit.

>>31321413
>how is a new design "nothing new"
>alolan forms
>new design

You forgot the part where they replace the perfectly good online system with this shitty festival system that has duplicate areas but their names have no bearing on what they are actually used for and you may as well guess what the hell building to send people to.

>>31321434
I'm legitimately at a loss for words

>I've literally worked in game design on JRPGs before anons

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>>31321392
>Every Pokemon game explains the features at some point
locking online behind the festival plaza and then locking many things like outfits and items here too is a bit more than "explaining features"

Same with the SOS Battles hiding numerous pokemon.

On that note, the amount of incredibly rare pokemon need to be take into account when mentioning selection. Distribution is important.

>>31321398
>>31321413
Are you saying there SHOULDNT be a skip button for cutscenes? And that pokemon should be locked behind weather based SOS battles to already rare pokemon?

what the fuck?

>but trials have you do a puzzle
W H A T
The trials are literally gyms with less puzzles and less battles

>>31321434
are you trying to make the anti-S/M people look bad by acting like a retard?

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>>31321434

>>31321413
also
>>A professor is nothing new.
>but a professor that is constantly appearing in the story, who is interesting, who does something other than give you your starter and dex is new. and no, Rowan does not count.
Why does he not count? Also, Elm gives you a Togepi egg, a Master Ball, and the SS Aqua Ticket. Juniper gives you the EXP Share and follows you around, and also does the entire tutorial as well.
Just say you like Kukui and stop using him as a point.

>>31321519
>people are anti SM just fort thinking the games have flaws

>>31321398
>It forced you to backtrack through dungeons and other parts of the map, something you should never do in a JRPG with set levelling.
Doesn't really answer anything. Also how many RPGs have you actually played?

>so them making finding new mons a challenge is a bad thing?
First thing you have to remember. Finding pokemon is no challenge, it's pure RNG. Making them rare is doing nothing but padding out the game and increasing the tedium.

>you get about 30 seconds of dialogue about the Pokefinder.
Far, far too much. You just need to inform the player of it in one line and be done. As for the rest if you hadn't noticed NPCs blab on about it everywhere.
Then there's the Festival Plaza but you know the problem there.

>not an argument. that anon said "you don't have to pet your pokemon" and you don't.
So the gameplay is no longer part of the gameplay. Is that what you're trying to say?
As much as you want to deny it leveling up and Hyper training are both part of the game and refresh is necessary for it not to be a boring slog. Which any genre of game let alone an RPG shouldn't do.

>so you're saying that there should just be a skip button for every cutscene? are you serious?
Most games since about the PS1 era do this anon. It's nothing new.
The real question is why are you opposed to a game having more options?

> If it's that "the game gave the psyduck a reason to be there", then that's rididculous, since the game also gives an explanation to why Tauros is there, why you can't pass the sudowoodo, etc.
You have read a lot of the explanations in SM right? One in particular stuck for how retarded it was and that was Stoutland. Then there are the Trial blocks that occur right in major roads like they're normal despite the fact it's a major road.

> Z-Moves were as big a part of the game as mega evolutions in XY were, in both the story and the actual battles.
So you agree they didn't affect anything.

Cont.

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>>31321434
what did he mean by this

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>>31321470
>>31321519
>>31321527
>two of these are almost exactly a minute apart
Hmmmmmm

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>>31321547
>>31321560
>STILL a fucking minute exactly
fucking stop pretending the post was that bad retard. You're making it look like you actually are from reddit.

>>31319326
This.

>>31320939
>You do if you want to reach level 100 and use hyper training within the next year
Not necessarily true. My tactic is to spam rainbow beans (which iirc are... worth one whole heart each?) and lucky egg. See? No petting but you still get the exp boost

>>31319218

>le hate meme

Bait thread.

>>31321413
Just realised I skipped a few

>t h i s i s i n l i t e r a l l y e v e r y p o k e m o n g a m e s i n c e g e n o n e
Again, the placements of the blockades weren't as random as they were in SM they also had a reason for being there besides "lol trial". Aside from the joke as previously mentioned.

>they have new methods of stat distribution, new stuff like auras, new pokeballs, and even a ton of lore behind them.
So how does that change their status as generic pokemon? What sets them apart gameplay wise from your basic legendary?
Hell even the lore has some staggering similarities to things we've seen before. The only real difference is the embellishment which amounts to essentially fancy glitter.

>Z-Moves were as big a part of the game as mega evolutions in XY were, in both the story and the actual battles.
In actual battles they were used about as much as megas which as you recall was not enough.
And like Megas they never had a bearing on the story, they were just side elements that were there for the sake of being there.
Until ORAS of course where megas had a little more relevance so the same may hold true for Z-moves in the future.

>how is a new design "nothing new"
If I color a red triangle blue is it a new shape? If your answer to that is no you have your answer.

>S/M had a much more complicated and better written story in general than gen 5
I'd say they're on par. Maybe SM is slightly lower than the Black and White saga as a whole.

>it has dynamic characters that grow and develop
It has one character that grows and develop, that character being Lillie. Even Gladion is neglected, and don't get me started on Hau.
Meanwhile in Black and White not only do both protags develop and learn the limits of their abilities, especially in the case of Bianca but the main antagonist does as well eventually realizing what his father has done.
Basically SM has a worse core dynamic and mix of characters.

Cont.

>>31321709
>le meme meme

>>31321413
>S/M had a much more complicated and better written story in general than gen 5. it has dynamic characters that grow and develop, and the writing (especially for team skull) is superb.
So opinions then. Because I found it poorly placed with not enough motivations for the main character to make their journey make sense, and information being given to us at poor times. And the different elements did not mesh together well. And many aspects of the plot and characters were wasted.

I woudnt even put it above the story in Gen 4.

>>31321792
*paced

>>31321413
>but trials have you do a puzzle
Some trials do. And by some I mean three out of the seven which is being generous seeing as a fetch quest can't really be considered a puzzle.
In fact the final Trial isn't even a real trial so it's more like three out of six.
>and fight a single totem mon supported by SOS mons. that's probably the most different way of doing a boss battle I could think of.
Too bad a double battle gym leader was done, what, four generations ago?
I suppose you could call the totem mechanic "new" but then again it just amounts to a battle item used before you can act.

>>31321546
>Doesn't really answer anything. Also how many RPGs have you actually played?
mostly Pokemon and a lot of western rpgs. I also did some design work for JRPGs as an intern but this is 4chan so that really doesn't mean anything.

>First thing you have to remember. Finding pokemon is no challenge, it's pure RNG. Making them rare is doing nothing but padding out the game and increasing the tedium.
you're right that it LITERALLY isn't more of a challenge, but figuratively it still is. getting good RNG can still count as a "challenge" when you have a limited number of times to do it/have to defeat every wild mon you find

>Far, far too much. You just need to inform the player of it in one line and be done. As for the rest if you hadn't noticed NPCs blab on about it everywhere.
Then there's the Festival Plaza but you know the problem there.
>implying that 30 seconds of explanation about a new gameplay feature is too much

>So the gameplay is no longer part of the gameplay. Is that what you're trying to say?
OP was saying that Refresh is boring, so I said "you don't have to play it". context, comrade.

>As much as you want to deny it leveling up and Hyper training are both part of the game and refresh is necessary for it not to be a boring slog. Which any genre of game let alone an RPG shouldn't do.
yes. I know.

>Most games since about the PS1 era do this anon. It's nothing new.
fair point.

>The real question is why are you opposed to a game having more options?
should Pokemon just give you immediate access to the E4? should you just have immediate access to every level in a shooter game?

>>31321879
(cont)

>You have read a lot of the explanations in SM right? One in particular stuck for how retarded it was and that was Stoutland.
you mean like the scientist from gen 3 who said he was studying footprints and blocked the access to the next town?

Then there are the Trial blocks that occur right in major roads like they're normal despite the fact it's a major road.
you mean like the dancers from BW?

>So you agree they didn't affect anything.
???????????????????????

>Again, the placements of the blockades weren't as random as they were in SM they also had a reason for being there besides "lol trial". Aside from the joke as previously mentioned.
what do you mean by "random"? roadblocks exist in every Pokemon game, in pretty much every town.

>So how does that change their status as generic pokemon? What sets them apart gameplay wise from your basic legendary?
Hell even the lore has some staggering similarities to things we've seen before. The only real difference is the embellishment which amounts to essentially fancy glitter.
what else do you expect GF to do? like I said, they changed up how stats are distributed, they added auras, and they added lore that included arceus-like Pokemon. I know they're still obviously Pokemon, but that's about as different as it can get.

>In actual battles they were used about as much as megas which as you recall was not enough.
every boss has a z-move.

And like Megas they never had a bearing on the story, they were just side elements that were there for the sake of being there.
how so? the stone is given to you as a gift by one of the legendaries, there's lore behind them, and people discuss it and talk about it.

>Until ORAS of course where megas had a little more relevance so the same may hold true for Z-moves in the future.
mhm

>>31321879
>I also did some design work for JRPGs
So what JRPGs in particular?

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>>31321896
(cont)

>If I color a red triangle blue is it a new shape? If your answer to that is no you have your answer.
alolan marowak and regular marowak are distinctly different. most of them aren't just a color swap.

>I'd say they're on par. Maybe SM is slightly lower than the Black and White saga as a whole.
but black and white didn't have anything that came close to the character development that Lillie had, or the writing that Team Skull had.

>It has one character that grows and develop, that character being Lillie. Even Gladion is neglected, and don't get me started on Hau.
Gladion changes from an edgy teen who works for Team Skull into someone who genuinely cares about his partners and even the player. Hau really doesn't change, but at least he actually has personality unlike most other rivals.

>Meanwhile in Black and White not only do both protags develop and learn the limits of their abilities, especially in the case of Bianca but the main antagonist does as well eventually realizing what his father has done.
fair point. I really didn't think of Bianca.

>Basically SM has a worse core dynamic and mix of characters.
explain.

>>31321560
>>31321608
pic related. I replied twice because I legitimately had no idea what that anon meant. sorry desu

>>31321879
>should Pokemon just give you immediate access to the E4? should you just have immediate access to every level in a shooter game?
ridiculous exaggerations arent a good argument anon.
>why remove HMs
>why not just make us battle the champ with level 100 legendaries then?!?

>>31321908
Also, you praise Gladion then say Hau's personality is an exceptional situation despite Silver being Gladion without a legendary. And now I dont even know what the argument is anymore. Arguing if things are new? risky? Unique?

Lillie is just N.

That third anon being exactly a minute later is still pretty exceptional desu

>>31321879
>mostly Pokemon and a lot of western rpgs.
That doesn't really bode well for you then does it.

> getting good RNG can still count as a "challenge" when you have a limited number of times to do it/have to defeat every wild mon you find
And you do realise we have an unlimited number of times right? Nothing is stopping the player from going back again and again so why make it that tedious?

>>implying that 30 seconds of explanation about a new gameplay feature is too much
Count out 30 seconds anon. And I mean 30 legitimate seconds.
That's how long you expect the player to sit there instead of playing the game.

>OP was saying that Refresh is boring, so I said "you don't have to play it". context, comrade.
Actually OP says it takes time out of real gameplay. Which is true if you want to access hyper training which given it's usefulness a player would want to access fairly quickly and easily. Which brings us to another problem, the bottle caps.

>should Pokemon just give you immediate access to the E4? should you just have immediate access to every level in a shooter game?
There was a day and age where you could do so with cheats anon. Take F-Zero X for example.
That aside that's a completely ridiculous argument. You're trying to say watching a cutscene is the same as interacting with the game and making legitimate choices in battle as well as moving across the various areas.

>you mean like the scientist from gen 3 who said he was studying footprints and blocked the access to the next town?
Far from it because he moves about five minutes into the game and never bothers you again. In SM Soutland block just moves down complete with the same text.

>you mean like the dancers from BW?
Ignoring the previous mention of the joke are we?

>but that's about as different as it can get.
So to sum things up; they aren't.

>every boss has a z-move.
Which is only 6 trainers in the whole main game. Although there were optionals if I remember right.

Cont.

>>31321896
>how so? the stone is given to you as a gift by one of the legendaries, there's lore behind them, and people discuss it and talk about it.
Which is staggeringly similar to megas in XY.
>Get ring from person well versed in megas
>have a battle with them that serves as a tutorial
>shoveled to the side with random NPC talking about it

>alolan marowak and regular marowak are distinctly different. most of them aren't just a color swap.
Most being equivalent to Alolan Exeggutor.

>but black and white didn't have anything that came close to the character development that Lillie had, or the writing that Team Skull had.
Aside from N and Plasma. N's arc was considerably better than Lillie because of the lack of whining and more focus on his actual character.

>Gladion changes from an edgy teen who works for Team Skull into someone who genuinely cares about his partners and even the player.
Yes but unlike say, Silver, it doesn't happen as a gradual change over time he stays the same right up until you see him at Lanakila where he makes a complete 180.

> but at least he actually has personality unlike most other rivals.
I don't think you can call overly happy a personality in the same way as say Wally or Barry. Basically even with the "pressure" to be a successor to his grandfather none of that is seen in the slightest and he remains happy all the way through.

>explain.
You know how everyone calls Dragonball GT "Goku Time" because he takes up the entire show?
SM would be "Lillie time" barely anyone develops properly in the game aside from her.

I hope everyone remembers that the games in Gen 1 through 3 wouldn't be the the of games to worry about story and character development obviously except for the villains, Wally, Silver, and N.

Gen 4 through 7 is where the story is emphasized enough for comparisons.

There is a lot of effort in S&M with the characters but the lack of screen time for the characters in S&M fucked up the story incredibly so I can't say it was good enough because that's a big part of the games.

Gen 5 has the best story compared to the other games if you're actually looking for the quality of the development instead of the animation and character designs that are the reasons why everyone loves it so much.

>>31322516
I'd say Gen 4 upped Johto's story to an acceptable level, except for it having a similar issue with some characters not having enough screen time

>>31322976
Johto's story is even worse in Gen 4. The main thing that made it worse is the forced Kimono Girls shit.

>>31319218
You're describing every pokemon game.
As for why you can't put it down, it's fun. So who cares.

>>31322976
Gen 4 had Cyrus and Cynthia in it so it is automatically better for the story whereas the characters in Johto wasn't important enough for it to be that memorable.

Gen 6 on the other hand would probably be the worse game if it wasn't for the 3D models and creation of megas.