why the fuck is this the only non-legendary non-mythical non-UB

>>31243452
A strong, defensive meta mon needs 3.5 things:

- good base stats
- key resistances
- reliable recovery
- and sometimes utility (status, hazards, etc)

Toxapex has it all. Not only does it have amazing stats and resistances, its typing allows it to synergize well as either a defensive pivot for offensive dragons/steels/etc or as part of a defensive core with mons like Ferrothorn or Heatran. It's good in a vacuum and it's good in practice.

Its access to Haze (preventing it from being setup bait, which is a major issue for purely defensive mons with comparable bulk ex. eviolite Dusclops), Scald/Toxic (spread burn/toxic and you cover all major threats with a crippling status except for special Steels like Heatran), and Recover+Regenerator means:
- it can't be setup on by most mons
- it can't be killed by most mons
- things strong enough to OHKO are usually telegraphed
- things strong enough to 2HKO have to deal with reads on Regenerator switch into another defensive core member
- it can debilitate your mons with Burn/Toxic if you try to ignore it
- it is immune to the Toxic status, the best way to otherwise deal with bulky walls, which locks you into the OHKO/2HKO dilemma outside of niche strategies like Soak.

What's there to dispute? This mon is basically a better Ferrothorn who trades hazards for status (and thus making it about as good as Ferro in practice with different team type optimizations).

Whether intentional or not (the Crown of Thorns starfish it's based off of has all the traits you'd use to design Toxapex (regenerates limbs, poisonous, few predators, etc)), Toxapex was literally designed to be an amazing defensive pokemon. Why wouldn't it be undisputed OU?

>>31243682
I think he wasn't a much asking why she is OU, but why nothing else made it in.

>>31243707

Mimikyu, Alolan Marowak and Alolan Muk are also OU.

>>31243707
Because everything else is fucking shit. They're either mostly slow or don't have enough of any other stat to do much. The only other comparable gen 7 mons are probably Bewear and Mimikyu, both of which are probably more UU than OU, and the latter of which has a gimmick to carry it through.

>>31243900
while I don't think those last two really count, being just retyped versions of the kanto mons, but mimikyu is great to know.

>>31243903
I really wanted bewear to be OU but now that OU is such a shithole I'm glad it isnt stuck there

Because gen 7 surpassed gen 2 in the percentage of shitmons. Almost everything is a slow attacker with average to mediocre bulk.

>>31243997
Gen 3 did it before.

>>31243997
gen 3 is statistically the gen with the most amount of shitmons, and the second is gen 1.

>>31243997
When are we getting another perfect OUmon like Tyranitar and Garchomp, strong and effective but sorta counterable

>>31243900
A-Marowak will stay
maybe mimikyu but muk will drop

>>31243942
Retypes make a big difference though. Regular Marowak's abyssmal.

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On average, most Alolamons suffer from one of these afflictions or a combination of them

>Low BST
>Awful BST distribution where nothing stands out, jack of all trades, master of none
>SLOW
>Good and unique ability BUT lacking the means to abuse it
>Extremely barren movepools in both a competitive and flavor sense. Moves that are thought as obligatory for the type the Pokemon is are not in their movepool for no reason at all.
>Monotypes everywhere despite many of dex entries giving pathaway for many of those monotyped to be dual typed
>Mons with types that would usually excel were given to Pokemon that work exactly the opposite that in the role the type would excel

Last but not least I there was an interview where they said this was their way to deal with the power-creep alongside with Z-Moves.

Yes, in Gamefreak's mind Ledian being able to use Z-Moves makes it equal to Garchomp. They somehow did not realize that Pokemon that are already good can also use Z-Moves.

They also somehow did not realize that by not introducing barely any good Pokemon this generation people would simply ignore them because, you know, they are shit, and will simply go to using Pokemon that are, you know, good. They think that introducing new Pokemon gives the players amnesia.

In short, as we all know, Gamefreak is utterly retarded.

>>31244033
Imo most UB actually fit that definition, it's just that /vp/ has autism and can't think past muh legendaries. If Buzzwole or Celesteela were exactly the same except for being UBs nobody would complain about them.

>>31243682
What do i breed it with to give it haze again?

>>31244201
UB are good but they all have one crippling flaw one way or another that keeps them down despite being so broken on paper. Nothing is as versatile as TTar and Garchomp are and nothing has always managed to remain as good as those two have managed to stay on the top through the years. No matter what happens, they have adapted and braved on as kings.

>>31244244
Unfortunately it seems like Tyranitar is going to get beat down this gen. There's nothing for it to get rid of and a lot of things it's afraid of.

Unless someone comes up with some weird set that suddenly smashes things I think we'll be seeing UU Tyranitar.

>>31244260
ffs uu ttar what has game freak done

>>31244260
>>31244276
Tapus were a mistake. So was Fairy. The Tapus are proof of how stupidly good Fairy is a type.

It baffles me how despite all these >>31244142
things we still got the stupidity incarnate that are the Tapus.

Mark my words, it won't even be a year before they are complained about harder than genies have been. Genies were real good, but they have always been manageable.

>>31244276
>>31244260
A UU Tyranitar... I never thought I would see the day.

Then again, I'm hearing Gengar's down in UU now too. OU is just Tapus + UB + Toxapex's playground, isn't it?

>>31244293
>Tapus were a mistake. So was Fairy. The Tapus are proof of how stupidly good Fairy is a type.
The Tapus are good because of their other type being boosted to an obscene amount due to auto Terrain. The only one who gets a real kick out of being Fairy is Lele, who now gets a free Dark and Bug resist.

>>31244418
and garchomp, that thing has like one more gen before power creep gets it too

>>31244276
Not giving a shit about the imaginary Meta of an online simulator? Don't get me wrong, I like Smogon/Showdown. But GF doesn't really care about 6v6 singles. They don't care much for competitive in general. At most they'll throw VGC fags a bone here and there.

>>31244203
Surskit or Ninjafrog

>>31244418
It's basically the gen 5 weather wars featuring Genesect and Genesect 2 but there's no hope for it being fixed next gen because while terrain may not last all game the carriers are legendaries instead of shitmons.

>>31244418
OU is now dead. Long live UU, the new OU, which is the old OU.
Congrats GF, you power crept so hard you actually broke the meta.

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>>31244510
>Implying we won't get Cynthia's Garchomp on DPP remakes because of how Masuda loves to wank his waifu

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>>31244510
>Garchomp is still thriving on Tapus The Meta
How does he do it? Why is he so perfect?

>>31244608
>Poison Jab

>>31244544
It's a good thing they don't cater to unofficial metas. They would fuck it up as bad as they did vgc 16 last season.

>>31244260
>>31244276
>>31244418
Reminder that the likes of Kyurem Black, Gliscor, Slowbro and Keldeo are UU
Mega Gyarados is currently RU
There are no brakes on the Tapus wild ride

>>31244783
Slowbro was UU prior to gen 6.

I'm more concerned that mega bro is UU as well.

>>31244783
Mega Gyara is OU you mong

>>31243452
Ash-greninja too :^)

>>31244783
>Mega Gyarados is currently RU
Base gyarados is RU.

>>31244293
>it won't even be a year before they are complained about harder than genies have been
No.

1. Tapus aren't ugly as hell
2. Smogon loved the weather wars, and they'll love terrain wars too

Gamefreak crippled so many Pokemon this gen

>Dumping 100 special attack and nasty plot into something with one base 40 move via level up
>Giving a heel wrestler neither drain punch or sucker
>Not giving a tanky fairy wish
>Only burn solarbeam as flying stab
>Make a slow Pokemon with a sweeping type
>Make a frail sweeper with little coverage not even EQ
>Not making the counter park a tank and instead a jack of all trades
>God tier stats no coverage and reverts back into something weaker than sunken
>NO ATTACKING MOVES
>Most crippling ability for a bug due to rocks
>2 hyper offensive types slow
>Focus miss or sky uppercut as stab

>>31244608
he's pretty much a ground type ferrothorn now with stealth rocks instead of spikes
being part dragon type is arguably a hindrance in this meta

>>31244608
Defensiv Chomp, touch him 3 times to kill yourself. ScarfChomp will always be relevant too.

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>>31244548
>Battle Bond Garchomp

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>>31245725
>A possible cynthia-garchomp
>offensive stats become absurdly high, on top of the good bulk it has
>Or it gets general buffs, becoming all around great
>it can still mega evolve even after form change
The meta will never recover

>>31244142
>this piece of shit has the best movepool

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>>31245953
Damn it

>>31245963
drampa's the fucking best, shut up

>>31245599

>only burn solarbeam as flying stab

What even is this, Toucannon? Because Beak Blast is more like Focus Punch than anything else. And it gets Brave Bird anyway. Toucannon's real problem is being slow of course. It's one of those things that murders ingame but doesn't do a lot competitively.

>>31244142
You don't seem to realize that they majorly care about the official meta aka VGC and not about unofficial Smogon metas.

>>31243707
>she

>>31244028
Ratios don't take into account number of pokemon introduced, which is the problem. Gen I and III introduced the second and third most mons, so even if a lot of them were shit, a lot of viable mons were created as well.

Even if SM introduced a higher percentage of useable pokemon, the fact that it only introduced 70 some pokemon really doesn't allow for variety of decent new introductions.

>>31247454
Gen VII has introduced more good mons than Gen VI though, if you disregard "muh legendaries" autism.

>>31245599
You forgot
>give a Pokemon with the two best status moves in the game Parasect's BST, HP, and Speed

>>31244203
can also breed it with pelipper to give it stockpile at the same time (for maximum meme)

>>31243900

Alolan Marowak is only one that actually has OU usage

>>31243452

>what is Salazzle

>>31246057
Everything mentioned on that post applies to VGC too. And will apply even harder next year when the NatDex gates are open.

>>31244142
Eh...if you think about it if they sat down and truly thought about "balancing" every single Pokemon in the game (which is just about impossible anyway, you just can't balance out hundreds of characters) it'd probably remove a lot of the flavor of the game and I'm betting most people would hate it.

If anything I like it when they utterly break legends even more like they did with Primal Reversion because that's the whole point of Legends.

>>31244244
Celesteela doesn't really have a crippling flaw.

>>31247832
Not ou

>>31247832
>>31248154
Not that anon, but I can see salazzle being high UU with a niche in OU. Sub + disable's pretty good since you can toxic everything, and NP isn't awful, either. One of the better Alola pokemon, though that isn't saying much.

>>31243997
average and mediocre mean the same thing though

>>31248146
She's the exception rather than the rule. Fucking broken Lunarian scum.

>>31248154

It sees use in OU.

>>31248447
>that's undisputed OU
Read the OP first.

>>31244142
Is there any way they can rebalance the game so that master-of-none Pokemon can gain some kind of niche?

>>31243452
Because she's perfect.

>>31248173
Sorry anon, but Sal's RU.

>>31248544
you mean by giving them moves? Yes, definitely.

For whatever reason, even though it would take all of 20 minutes to copy and paste the move tutors from last gen into the new gen, they know that people will spend 40 dollars on the new games just to to have access to them, and that they can sell literally anything as long as it has the word "Pokemon" in it, so you alola-friends will be shit until the next game because they also refuse to patch their games.

They could also retype pokemon in the following gen after realizing they were shit, or retcon abilities, but GF only does the latter to nerf pokemon, not buff them

>>31248629
I mean just in general, because it seems like the game favors a stat spread with a clear role over things with mixed roles.

That's not limited to Pokemon, it seems like an issue in most RPGs. Kinda like the debate about hybrid classes in MMORPGs I guess. Seems like in RPGs hybrid roles just don't work unless you also give them some kind of special gimmick on top.

>>31248719
mixed attackers were good in gen 4, when things like Infernape and Lucario were the new hotness. I don't really see the comparison because bulky attackers and fast attackers are still both viable, but you're right in that there is no reason to use X over Y if X doesn't have any distinguishing traits.

For example, Lycanroc literally does nothing that Aerodactyl doesn't do 20x better, therefore, because Lycanroc has no gimmick or niche, it is an unusable shitmon. You can say the same about say, Silvally and Staraptor/Cinccino, or Vikavolt and literally anything, or Kommo-o and basically any other DDer or Special Dragon, etc

>>31243452
why didn't anyone mention Marowak

>>31249100
Alolan forms aren't technically gen7 mons.
Well in a way they are but at the same time they aren't. We're talking new gen mons.

>>31243682
Every single time I see a Toxapex, I laugh my ass off and switch in Magic Bounce Espeon.

>>31249391
>Espeon was burnt!

>>31249428
>burning an SpA sweeper

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>>31249391
>a mon has a counter so it's shit

>>31249428
>Protection from paralyze
Thanks

>>31249462
What would commonly switch into and Paralyze an Espeon?

>>31244540

>Ninjafrog

Gonna have to wait until after pokebank. Ash-Greninja has no balls and can't breed.

>>31249462
ampharos and druddigon

>>31243682
It's comparable to Ferrothorn. It's not "better" than Ferrothorn, because it's typing fills a different niche. Plus, ferrothorn is a better hazard setter.

>>31244260
Kek, no it's not. Tyrnaitar will always be OU due to it's unparalleled ability to trap things weak to dark. Before you say there's too many Tapu's/UBs, whatever, people are not suddenly going to stop using Gengar, Lati@s, Starmie, or Alakazam. The meta isn't even official yet. A lot of things Ttar is weak to will get suspect tested, and moved to Ubers. You sound like you only played 6th Gen OU and now you're a pro at everything.

>>31248804
I feel the fundamental 4-move system is what holds back mixed attackers the most. It's just not feasible to have type and defense coverage on the same pokemon, especially with type resistances and immunities having a significant effect on damage output.

It's more practical to have a dedicated sweeper with a boosting move, than a mixed one with limited attacking moves.

>>31249865
>people are not suddenly going to stop using Gengar, Lati@s, Starmie, or Alakazam.
people have already stopped using all those things except latios

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>>31250018
Read my post, I think if you had better reading comprehension you'd realize I said once the meta settles a lot of those pokemon will still see usage.

>>31249984
EVs are what seems to hinder mixed attackers if you ask me. That and just design. To have a good mixed attacker you need three good stats alongside appropriate coverage on both ends, whereas a dedicated sweeper only might need two or even one good stat depending on ability.

>>31250099
>>31249984
A mixed attacker must also have the tools to defeat common defensive cores. This made sense for gen 4 Infernape, which handles Skarmory + Blissey quite well, but there are so many differnt options for Def., and Sp.D wall these days. Aside from things like Zoroark which can use Sucker Punch on a Special Set effectively mixed attackers suck.

>>31247852
Except VGC uses a rule similar to the Kalos pentagon rule. Now it's the Alola born/+ rule. So unless a lot of the OP shit will be catchhable in whatever new game comes next within this gen, we won't see the return of CHALK for a good while. We are currently in a meta where Golduck can be a top tier threat.

>>31249984
>>31250099
What is there to be gained in being a mixed attacker? Unless you have a strong physical fighting-type move to surprise and KO chansey or a surprise Electric/Fire move for Skarmory, there's no reason not to just commit to one end of the spectrum or the other

>>31250166
Infernape and Lucario fit this description, but are weak to priority so aren't very viable despite beating Skarmory + Blissey.

>>31250166
Well, it means their ability to hit stuff hard isn't hindered as much. Special mons have to deal with shit like Chansey, Physical mons have to deal with Intimidate and Scald and whatnot. By being threatening on both sides, the idea is you're not as easy to stop, but at the same time it's hard to make a good mixed attacker.

>>31250211
I remember in the early day of 6th Gen OU M-Absol would just run Sucker Punch/Knock-off/Play Rough/Flamethrower, but that's not as powerful because things like Bisharp fill that niche better. This gen I could see Flamethrower/Sucker Punch/Swords Dance/Knock Off being a thing.

>>31244028
How is this calculated?

>>31244260
>being able to use ttar in the fun tiers
Oh baby

>>31250331
I personally went through the whole dexes of each region and then compared all fully evolved pokemon with the data from their smogon tier positioning. Anything RU or above I didn't consider a shitmon, NU and PU I did

It came out as gen 3 having a 58% of shitmons in its dex, gen 1 had 57%, and gen 2 had 46%. Whenever the gen 7 meta begins settling down I probably will update it.

>>31250530
It'd probably be balanced there too. Scizor in UU ended up having fucking 26% usage like it was D/P or B/W.

>>31249649
Like father like son

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>>31250970
kek anon, you just genuinely made my day

Honestly I'd say marowak is even more undisputed considering along with the ubs/tapus he also counters toxapex.

>>31250246
Except absol can't even get knock off now till bank

>>31244260
I think he'll be OU if only for a consistent marowak counter considering he's the strongest and tankiest pursuit trapper who also can KO with stone edge of Marowak thinks about staying in on pursuit to use bonemerang. (Though Idk who wins if TTAR attempts to switch in and gets hit)

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>every single online battle is a mixture of garchomp lucario mimikyuu gyarados pelipper and tapu koko
>always at least 4 of those
>can't use any mons i like this gen because of it

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>>31250970

>>31251795
lol, koko isn't even used much anymore. Fini is the new hotness.

>spent the last 2days sos'ing for a regenerator Mareanie

this sucks

>>31253653
Could have just asked us for one, I'll trade you one if you like.

>>31253712
Turns out I don't actually have an extra female one. I'll go breed one right now, leave something up on the GTS, post your info ITT and I'll get it to you soon.

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>>31250970

>>31251795
Bring a Mamoswine. It takes care of Tapu Koko and Garchomp. Primarina is a counter to Gyarados since he almost always runs DDance, Crunch, Waterfall, and EQ. Primarina can just moonblast him away, she also fares well against Lucario, Mimikyu, and Pelliper since she does have some bulk to her. Run specs and you're set.

I'd feel sorry for Smogon drones if they weren't such pathetic sheep incapable of independent thought.

>>31253712
>>31253764

Really? Thank you.

I'm not sure about what specific information you need, Name: Corey.

I deposited a Raichu lvl29 male.

>>31253855
I'm still breeding one right now, I'll post ITT for further updates.

>>31253826
And I suppose you're a genius innovater?

>>31244293
No they won't as even though lele will be the most common, it's not gonna be the only one you will see unlike Landorus being on every fucking team since its birth and since shit like tapus and UBS are still not banned online, will still be
Also tapus at least don't look worse than Literally living trash

>>31244783
how is mega gyarados RU? What about that chart that had it in OU?

>>31253855
I don't see your listing, it must have gotten sniped. Could you put another up?

>>31254132
Yeah it was, posting again, same name.

Male, lvl17 Butterfree. Up now.

>>31254197
Sent with an item for all the pain you've been through :^)

>>31254242
You're a man among humans.

Thank you.

>>31243682
Damn, a well thought out, straight to the point, detailed answer?
NONSENSE!
Where are the memes?!

>>31250601
Post it when you do

>>31249391
Congratz, now you have an Alolan-Muk staring you in the face. Are you ready to catch this pursuit?

>>31253826
Tell me your team right now.

>>31250601
What about NFEs higher than PU? Those have to count for SOMETHING for a gen - even if it's NU, it means that it's better than a shitton of fully evolved pokemon.
And last I looked there were a few in higher tiers - Golbat was RU by the end of last gen, while Gligar and Doublade were UU

>>31256658
Jokes on you, my "Magic bounce Espeon" was actually a Zoroark.

Do you really want to take two Dazzling gleams from a choice specs Espeon anyway?

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>>31257361
>80 BP non-stab non-SE move special move
>on 105/100 special bulk

>>31251795
Could Registeel possibly counter some of the Tapus?

>>31257477
throw ass-vest into the mix too.

>>31257554
Specially defensive Registeel counters Tapu Lele and should have a reasonable chance against Bulu.

Keko and Fini beat it 1v1 with NM/Taunt Shenanigans

>>31257050
Plus, Porygon2

>>31243707
>she

>>31257361

Yes because I'm used as a Lele check who hits harder than you.

This little shitter needs to be banned

>>31262504
I can think of a few Tapus and UBs that need to be banned before Toxapex.

Toxapex is pretty good, but it's ultimately manageable.

>>31259499
>Specially defensive Registeel counters Tapu Lele and should have a reasonable chance against Bulu.

primeape counters darkrai and yet darkrai is still uber

>>31243900
>alolan muk
For real? How are people running it, special wall?

>>31262504
You cannot be serious. So many things deal with it, it's only mid tier OU.

>>31262730
pursuit, knock off, toxic, shadow sneak that's about it.

>>31245599
I think deducieye doesn't even get. Special move by lv up

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All these people forgetting araquanid

>>31262730
I only see a.muk in vgc because he is just so bulky
Watch wolfyglicks vids on him

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>>31258072
>Ass vest
>Over gluttony figy berry

>>31244497
Fairy resisting bug was a mistake

I don't play competitive but I'm curious about Z-Moves
Are these relevant? Rarely used? Or useless in competitive?

>>31263568
Relevant
They improve already-good wallbreakers, z moves can nuke mons in one turn
You can slap a Rockium/Flyium Z on lando-t to power up Stone Edge/Fly respectively, Grassium Z to power up Heatran's Solar Beam (becomes turn 1), Flyium Z on Salamance, etc etc
There's also stuff like Z-Conversion which raises all of Porygon-Z's stats by 1 and changes its type (Allowing you to fire off +1 Adaptability-stab-boosted Shadow Balls or Tbolts or whatever type you want to turn it into)

>>31263568
>>31263642
Not to mention they can't be Knock Off'd which is helpful

>>31248447
Seaking sees use in Ubers but isn't Uber

>>31263568
The main ones I see are status ones like conversion - z (which raises all stats by 1) and parting shot - z ( fully heals Pokémon brought in)

>>31263680
Z-Conversion is overrated so is Z-Rain Dance.

The most common Z move is Supersonic Skystrike Pokemon (Lando-T, Dragonite, Mence, are literally running Fly for that 175 base attack to smash their would be checks.

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Do you run Haze or baneful bunker?

>>31264045
haze stops setup sweepers setting up in your face, baneful bunker is a bit of a waste of a moveset slot on a poke with so much utility

>>31245821
>garchomp with long flowing blond hair

>>31264045
>Cloyster used Shell Smash!
>Cloyster used up it's White Herb!
>Toxapex used Haze!

>Dragonite used Dragon Dance!
>Toxapex used Scald! Dragonite was burned!
>Dragonite used Dragon Dance!
>Toxapex used Haze!

My favorite is letting someone use Calm Mind twice, I Toxic them turn 1 then Haze turn 2. Please run Haze.

>>31264442
sounds good anon, do you get black sludge for it to hold?

>>31264459
Yeah, Toxapex is going to be taking a lot of hits for the team, Regenerator is nice but sometimes you really need that extra bit HP to save you. Surviving with 4 HP before Recovrering makes people mad as hell.

>>31243452
Whats it's ideal EV spread?

>>31263757
Right because the equivalent of being scarfed and specs is sooooooo overrated right?