>Smogon blacklisting Decidueye when it's OU Why

>>31223350
>artificial OU

>>31223350
>why does Smogon have the sense to ignore delusional owlfags
You tell me, OP

>>31223465
>1600+ ladder players are delusional

>>31223473
t. Sub 1800 shitter.

Isn't it only OU in Prebank?

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>>31223350
DON'T MAKE ME SAY IT, OWLKEK

Its bever gonna be ou anyway

>>31223350
Wait seriously, some one put a link to the page cuz I don't believe you.

>>31223473
>You can't have 5 really good Pokemon and one mediocre Pokemon and still win

>>31223683
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sm-ou-viability-ranking-thread-preliminary.3590726/

>Blacklisted Pokemon: All posts regarding these pokemon will be deleted.
>Placeholder for Decidueye and Golosipod because we all know these will be here at some point

>>31223705
So what? You can have 6 'mediocre' mons and still win. So picking on Decidueye or any other Pokemon is pointless from the start.

>>31223724
Decidueye is special because of owlfags who keep trying to push it. Smogon itself has banned OU discussion about it so you know there's an issue with them.

>>31223747
That's not a flaw of the mon, that's a flaw of the system. It's a usage-based system so if people want to use it, it'll get usage.

>>31223350
bird no speed

>>31223765
The issue here isn't about usage though, it's about discussing viability rankings.

Wait Decidueye being in our would be a good thing. Think that would indicate that the meta is getting better. They using pokemon they actually like as opposed to just using op pokemon to help them win. Decidueye being in ou would be a sign that the meta might get diverse.

I like the owl but it's UU at best guys, too frail and slow

>>31223809
It's already OU you dumb fag

>>31223765
You can use it if you want but people shouldn't clog up discussion about viability and efficacy when it's obviously clear that the Owl isn't that good.

>>31223797
>Decidueye being in ou would be a sign that the meta might get diverse.
Decidueye is only OU in pre-bank though.

>>31223817
Anon was talking about ranking in terms of viability, not usage

Smogon confirmed being run by Trannyfags/Barafuckers

Everyone's out to get based owl for being popular, it's just insane really...

>>31223849
People use it and succeed with it, how the fuck is it not viable?

>>31223851
Really makes you think...

>>31223858
People can also use Ratata and Spinda and win with them as well, doesn't make them viable.

Just because you can use something doesn't mean that it's good.

Smogon's system sucks, more news at 11.

>>31223878
>People can also use Ratata and Spinda
Lol fuck no.

You need to spend less time on Showderp. People who are GOOD can actually use Decidueye and maintain high rankings with it. It's fucking good.

>>31223851
>Smogon confirmed being run by Trannyfags/Barafuckers

it's the other way around actually. if you didn't read the thread discussing the viability of Nu-Male owl, then you're pulling shit out of your ass.

Primarina and Incineroar threads didn't get much discussion, also despite Primarina being the more viable option than Decidueye.

>>31223718
>>31223747
Haha, is that how Smogon works? If they don't like that people are talking about a Pokemon a lot they ban discussion on it? Holy fuck, I know Smogon was fucked but that's insane.

>>31223916
No. They don't like when low ELO faggots shit up the thread by constantly insisting that a Pokemon is viable when it clearly isn't.

>>31223901
>He's never heard of FEAR
Regardless, "good" is such a broad term when it comes to player skill. I've reached 1750+ on Showdown before and believe myself to be a poor player.

Besides, the "good" players have already decided that Decideye is shit, hence the blacklisting.

>>31223916
They ban discussion if a Mon is shit and has no reason to be discussed. It's like how people vehemently argued that Charizard was good pre-Gen 6, it just clogs up a thread and brings about shitposting.

>>31223901
not really a singles player, but I'm curious. why is the owl good?

For anyone that says decidueye is slow and weak. It's a indication that it's probably a salty littenfanboy or a primerinafanboy. Not trying to be mean that's just what I've been noticing.

>>31223817
>it's OU in the first month of a new gen
Wow, it's fucking nothing

>>31223979
>stats are subjective
Really made me think deeply

>>31223982
Like I said salty fanboy

>>31223979
it's the other way around. I haven't seen anyone or thread in Smogon saying this.

if you've actually seen the thread discussing about Decidueye's viability, it's really cancerous. It has niche in OU yes, but some people are just really pushing it.

>>31223974
It's really just okay, its stats and movepool make it versatile and consequently unpredictable. Most high-ranking Decidueye users run phys with a scarf and use it to switch in on and check mons like Tapu Koko/Fini. It's also capable of running support sets with Defog/U-turn, but there are far better options post-bank for that.

>>31223974
Good support role as a rapid spin blocker/defogger

>>31223974
>why is the owl good?

It's not.

>>31223979
Only reddit uses "fanboy" instead of "fag" as a suffix. Way to out yourself, nu-male.

>>31223350
that's because its arcanine like, or donphan like.

it has a "niche" but its still a shitmon and retarded fags desperately try to push it as viable when it clearly isn't. Cancer.

>>31224046
Like I said salty fanboy

>>31224051
Look guys another salty fanboy

>>31224083
This is the best explanation, having a niche on a specific situation doesn't make you viable enough to be worth of a semblance of discussion.

There are things that outshine the oil really hard and kill its chances of being used unironically.

>>31224083
Fucking this. It's Forretress levels of viable in OU.

None of the Alola starters are in the OU viability rankings right now.

Good. No one should have to deal with some not all obnoxious owl lovers who can't accept it not being the best thing ever. The day those stats leaked was so so delicious.

>>31224180
Of course, they're all mediocre competitively.

>>31224083
Honestly why are you guys so salty. This is what people wanted the meta game to be like. People always complain that they see the same op pokemons in every single format and it gets pretty boring. But when people Finley try and bring a pokemon that they love to a high tier, you guys hate on it? I honestly don't understand what you people want the meta game to be anymore.

>>31224194
If they want to play with Decideye by all means, but don't try to force people to believe that it's good when it's not.
Especially when they're crowding out actual discussion with shitposting and denial.

>>31224190
Wow we got a really weird salty fanboy over here.

>>31224193
Primarina is legitately close to being there if it had calm mind access. Either way assault vest primarina is legit fun in the.

>>31223974
I only play on cart so i don't know about post bank or singles 6v6, but ghost/grass has always had a niche in 3v3 OU, and he is loads better then the other two options.

>>31224221
But I'm not? Pre stats leak many owl fans kept saying it was the next greninja and being just plain rude to incineroar and primarina fans.

>>31223916
>jolteon and darmanitan were autoban words in the OU room on PS

I don't know why but it's hilarious that they can get so asshurt by this type of thing

>>31224225
>loads better than the other 2 options.

Do tell why anon aside from it's design. I'm listening.

>>31224222
It needs Recovery too.

>>31224238
Sounds like the opposite to me. Fags of any Pokemon can get pretty fucking autistic and shitposty when it comes to defending their faves when they're clearly inferior options.

>>31224225
>Only plays on cart
>Doesn't know that the owl wasn't even on the top 30(I think?) and Primarina and Incineroar made the cut

>>31223916
It's because they want the thread to operate in an efficient manner but it grinds to a halt when people who don't know any better bring those mons up when they're completely bad.

>>31224194
>/vp/ is one person
The people who are defending the blacklisting are the ones who understand/enjoy Smogon and its forums, and don't complain about Genies and friends.
On top of that, most of /vp/ loves to see things like Gengar and Starmie keep their OU spots.

>>31224180
A lot of stuff that is viable isn't listed because it's a prelim thread and they don't have C rank.

>>31224222
It'll get listed

>>31224256
>A mon whose best set is Choice Specs needs recovery

You faggots don't know what you're taking about.
Look at this.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/decidueye.3587254/
Thirteen pages of pure shitposting.
Of course they don't want that shit clogging up the viability thread.

>>31224296
Did you read the post I was replying to? He said that Primirina needed CM and then I mentioned that it would need Recovery as well to work with its poor speed.

>>31224194
>But when people Finley try and bring a pokemon that they love to a high tier, you guys hate on it?
by all means do that, but don't shitpost in threads thinking its worthy of being tiered anything other than D

>>31223350
not deciduegay but golisopod didnt need blacklisting. dont know how many times ive shit on tapus with golis when their players thought they had an easy kill and i revealed poison jab just to exit into a setup sweeper

>>31224298
I noticed this a while ago while the other 2 threads barely had any posts. That blind bias was baffling as heck.

>>31224244
I'm not a fan of its design fellow anon. Meh at best, not that I hate it or anything.

Dhelmise would be better with its neat abulty, but the bulky ghost/grass isn't really an all out attacker, it burns stuff and makes people think twice about picking grass or rock types. Its speed and slightly worse bulk is why it seems less popular, I dunno.
Trevenant is just bad sadly. It relies on sun, which kinda counters the niche of a ghost/grass.

Why the fuck does it matter? If something that you like is listed under OU you can STILL use it in OU. Nothing is stopping you — if anything you'd think they'd want Decidueye to be UU(and under) so they can have bragging points about winning with it in OU matches.

Fuck, man, I'm so sick of starterfags fighting.

>>31224257
I honestly don't look at useage stats, I can't say i care enough prebank. I mostly just fuck around.

>>31224378
If anything, Owlfags are actively hurting their chances of succeeding in battles with Decideye by forcing it into a tier where it's outclassed.

If they just kept it to UU, they'd actually do well against similarly powerful mons.

>>31224355
In absolute fairness it's because owl has a good support movepool and a really great signature move. The other two are really one dimensional in what they can do.
>primarina: specs or AV and 4 attacks since it has no support movepool or boosting moves, and its signature move is a surf that HEALS YOUR OPPONENT'S BURNS
>incineroar: best set is obviously choice band. Has no really interesting tech, its HA is an obvious upgrade compared to the other two so people are kind of waiting for that.
>owl: has Roost and a useful typing so it could conceivably be a special wall. Gets defog so that's a talking point. Can NastyPass and SDpass. Its signature move traps the opponent. Has enough speed for a scarf set.

Owl isn't that great but it had enough potential for several pages of discussion. Sometimes it does take 8 pages to figure out that something is an insanely niche pick for OU. And a lot of those pages were shitposting about why the thread had so many replies and why owl wasn't that good and didn't deserve this much discussion.

>>31223974
> why is the owl good?
It isn't.
It's only OU in prebank and the only thing he can do is use its one trapping trick.

>>31224528
Eh, the bulky roost/wow/ss/leaf blade set seems like the best ghost/grass set available. I guess seed Gourgeist might be better, but I think nerdowl has the grass/ghost niche.

>>31224388
Wait hold on us if any thing it's those littenfags that really ster up some trouble, when ever go into a starter thread or anything related to the alola starters the littenfags are always talking about how there cat can take hits better, and when the hidden ability comes out, the catfags go on and talk about how there cats hidden ability it better then the other two. And the trash talk about how the owls hidden ability doesn't do anything for it. And the saels hidden ability will make it just a bootleg gardevior with surf. Rarely the sealfags start some shit. And sometimes the owlfags start some shit but the one I've seen mostly talking some shit are those dam catfags.

>>31223473
>>31223484
>smogon
>official

Pick one.

> but muh make believe fansite ladders, please care

>>31224528
Well no shit that's what makes it good.

>>31224589
Neither of those posts says Smogon is official, though.

>>31224589
Who the fuck said anything about that? Did you also forget that battle spot has a similar ladder system?

>>31224565
it cannot learn wow

>>31224589
Um, battle spot has a ladder with similar rankings. I'd argue that 1500+ is a decent player with all the craziness of BS 3v3, limited bans means random shit can wreck smogon sets, but that's personal opinion.

>>31224593
It doesn't make him good. It makes him have a niche.

>>31224616
Really? Huh, I don't get why I see it so often then, outside of people loving its design. Defog isn't useful outside of 6v6, and it doesn't seem to have much else.

>>31224589
>people that shitpost about smogon don't even play on battlespot
Really make you think.

>>31224645
Did you forget spirit shackles.

>>31224678
No, but that really doesn't seem as useful as wow.

>>31223916
I'm pretty sure most places give retards the boot when smarter people are talking.

Okay Nintendo have it your way just give the other two starters the edge over decidueye in the meta. But you have one thing to do to make it up to us owl fans. The anime. I want to see ash with a fully evolved op decidueye going against kukui's incineroar. If I don't see ash with a fully evolved decidueye by the end sun and moon anime I'm done here

>>31224763
Incineroar is even more trash than the owl in competitive, yes even with intimidate. Tranny seal is a one trick pony that gets outclassed by tons of other stuff.
I have no idea why Smogon is even considering giving Tranny seal its own OU page but it will be as useful as Tyrantrum's gen 6 OU page.

Bottom line, all Alolan starters are trash, the only reason why people tend to attack owlfags the most is because said owlfags try to sell their shitmon with utmost enthusiasm at every passing second while most good players just roll their eyes at it.
>b-but this high ladder guy uses Decidueye!
Fucking Slaking and Shedinja have gotten to the top of the ladder and they are fucking terrible. Fulfilling a niche and being an incredibly solid pick in the tier are two different things.
If you like the owl and wanna build around it in the tier then go ahead and use it but stop trying to sell it as the next Serperior because it's not the case at all.

>>31224763
did you even see the mallow leak though

>>31224875
Incineroar is really that bad ?
Last time i checked every one was saying, he just needed its HA to have a nice niche in VGC.

>>31225031
We're talking singles here but yeah it gets utterly outclassed by Arcanine who has recovery and Extremespeed, doesn't have knock off or sucker punch and his dark typing hurts more than help by neutralizing his resistance to U-Turn and Fairy type. He is slightly bulkier than Arcanine sure but we're not talking anything significant, at the end of the day after one Morning Sun Arcanine will have more effective HP than Incineroar.
The one thing it has over Arcanine though is access to U-Turn for easy pivoting but being so slow and weak to Stealth Rock on paper he seems awkward to use.
tl;dr use Arcanine instead

>>31225031
We're talkin about Smogon Singles. It's pretty much a worse Arcanine all around, and I think even Arcanine dropped to RU. It has a few niches over Arcanine like slow U-Turn and Dark Type, but unless it gets tutor moves like Knock Off it doesn't look good for the cat.

>>31225031
Yeah Incineroar will do well in doubles with fake out+intimidate, which might sadly be its only good niche that isn't outclassed.

>>31224936
Mallow leaks or Chinese leaks. Cuz one is very different from the other. And also I already debunked that. That's not ash's incineroar, the Chinese leaks is jusr rotom dex taking a picture of incineroar in the battle royal. Incineroar is showing off for the dex. And that incineroar belongs to the masked royal. I honestly said this story to many times, I'll just let you littenfags figure the puzzle out on your own. And here's your cluse, machamp, microphone, machamp letting itself getting picked up and swinged without any hesitation, Lana, popplio, vs rowlet, vs machamp, vs incineroar. Incineroar's dex entries. There that should be anouth cluse for even a ignorant littenfag to figure out.

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Probably answered already but why not just settle for this this being below OU?
Do these guys really wanna deal with the amount of bullshit that's going on in the OU?
I'm considering going UU since as much as I love Pheromosa, I cannot deal with the Tapu Lele and Landorus-T

>>31223851
Because owlfags are obnoxious. There's no need to blacklist the other ones since no one it's going to nominate them anyway

>>31225269
Please put a trip on so I can filter you, or just keep your anime trash out of this thread.

>>31225269
And if that's not anouth proof for you think about this. There is a fire type starter and a water type starter in smash bros, what type is that. They need a seventh pokemon that represents the seventh generation of pokemon in 2017. and it's got to be a grass type. It can't be water we have that already have greninja, can't be fire we already got charizard. Can't be dark again greninja. And that's why they took the flying typing away from the rowlet line. And one more proof. Ash already caught both the water and fire starter in smash. So it's when the grass type appeas, ash is most likely going to catch it.

>>31225108
>>31225120
Ho, it's single.
Meh, Incineroar was clearly designed to be Good in Duo and not much in Solo anyway.

Not sure, if your talking about Arcanine outclassing Incineroar in Duo tho.
Because better bulk+ Fire/dark + Fake out already make it stand out from the doggo.

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>>31225539
>>31225464
>>31225517
>>31225551

>>31225559
What were these deleted posts?

>>31225551
Dark makes him more vulnerable to Pixilate Hyper Voice and U-Turn.
Fake out is definitely a boon over Arcanine however it can only be used on turn one and Arcanine has Extremespeed for priority.
It's bulk is only slightly better at the end of the day I doubt it will survive any more Rock Slides or quakes than Arcanine.

>>31225607
>Fake out is definitely a boon over Arcanine however it can only be used on turn one and Arcanine has Extremespeed for priority.
You do know that Fake Out flinches right? And that it's very valuable in doubles?

>>31225602
The same tigerfag making the same post with the same awkward grammar but slightly less worse each time.

>>31225602
The same just with mistakes because i'm to tired to English good ya.
I just deleted them because i take to take this thread kinda seriously, but the big meany from /vp/ are cyberbullying me:'c

>>31225621
Yeah that's why I said it's a boon over Arcanine.

>>31225607
I guess it make sense.

>>31225625
I just trying to understand competitive right now.
Why u heff to b mad ?

>>31225635
Ah I'm sorry I'm a retard

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>>31223747
Kek. Did they really? Link?

>>31223851
>Owl fags convincing themselves that they are victims after all the shit they've pulled

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>>31224190
Holy shit this. That shit was so hilarious. Seeing all those Owl fags go into despair.

>>31225919

>>31223718

Literally the new Ambipom.

>>31226726
well its more like the gen 1-5 charizard fans

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>>31226726
Reminder that since its introduction Ambipom has literally never been in a tier where it can be considered good or even usable.

>playing smogon singles when smogon doubles exists

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>>31226751
Reminder to thank God that you aren't an owlfag

>>31223350
>tfw all of this could be avoided if Decidueye had more than 100 base speed and Will-O-Wisp

>>31226768
>Chris-chan: The Pokemon
Any autists touch Incineroar yet?

>>31226780
>Touching a fire type
You'd get burned, you frickin dummy.

>>31226759
It was great in DPP UU though.

>>31223979
Stats don't lie

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am I reading this right?

spirit shackle doesn't persist after decidueye switches out or dies? How fucking stupid can GF be

lol there goes UU for any starter, at most we'll have RU

>>31226853
many starters are UU. Contrary Serperior was OU in Gen 6

>>31226858
I obviously mean this gen

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>>31223350

A reminder that outside of Roost, this thing gets outclassed by A FUCKING ANCHOR.

>>31227061
Does the anchor get U-turn and Baton Pass?

>>31223948
>smogon being biased against charizard and refusing to listen to reason until gen 6 forced them to
Good job proving his point.

iTT: retards who know literally nothing about how smogon operates complaining that it operates in a method that blocks their shitty opinions from relevance

>>31227202
Anon most here agree with their decision

>>31227174
Discussion on Charizard was blocked because it was evidently not good in gen5 ou and before for a variety of tested reasons. Retards like you would shit up the viability threads claiming it was good, and thus it was blacklisted so that the thread could serve as a legitimate resource for new players.

tl;dr

Don't ever discuss about competitive, VGC or Smogon, in /vp/. Ever.

>>31227223
>most people point out that charizard is good?
>SHUT DOWN ALL DISCUSSION
This is your mind on Smogon. Smogonfags are the kind of people who chose Venusaur and Primarina, so they just have a grudge against the actually good starters.

Its like 4chan black listing baka desu senpai

>>31227257
>missing the point

get a load of this thick-headed retard.

>>31227257
>Decidueye and Charizard better than Primarina and Venusaur in any possible way
HAHAHAHAHAHA

>>31227257
You'd have a point maybe if the primarina or heck incineroar threads had anywhere near as many posts a the owl thread there.

>>31227297
>Charizard used Flamethrower!
>Decidueye used Leaf Blade!

>>31227306
>venusaur held on with its focus sash
>venusaur used hidden power rock!
>primarina ate its rindo berry
>primarina used subzero slammer!
Two can play the be a retard game.

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>>31227345
Yeah, you and Smogon.

>>31227257
Venusaur has had consistent OU usage for 6 generations. What's your point.

>>31227345
>Charizard held on with its focus sash
>Charizard used flamethrower

>Decidueye literally laughs at Primarina holding 2 items
>Decidueye cucks her

>>31227306
>Keeping pokemon in on types they're weak to
wew

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>>31227377
>tiers are based on usage!
>the starter that pretty much nobody picks is OU, guys, not the one that everyone loves!
>and we'll ban any discussion of it!
Totally not Bulbafag salt and bias.

>Smogon blacklisting Decidueye before anyone has a fair chance to explain how it's viable in OU is not biased
>Smogon not blacklisting Primarina even though it's proven to be just a shittier Tapu Fini and a poor man's Azumarill and thus has no competitive value is not biased either

The bias is so obvious, you'd have to be retarded to deny that there's a disgusting amount of bias involved.

>>31227413
its more ironic if anything

>>31227597
People don't bring up Primarina 24/7
Decidueye was blacklisted because of it's autistic fanbase

>>31227597
Why do you always have to bring up other starters to defend yours? Are you that insecure? Besides, even though the latter is obviously a better Pokémon IN GENERAL, Primarina and Tapu Fini are used in a completely different way. Neither Fini or Azumarill can run a Choice Specs set with 126 base Sp. Atk and that wide of a movepool.

>>31227623
This. Decidueye's thread on the OU subforum has 13 pages of autistic shitposting, meanwhile threads for some probably meta defining Pokémon like Buzzwole, Tapu Bulu and Pelipper got just two pages of discussion. It's pure madness, Smogon's mods just took preemtive neasure before the same thing happens in the viability ranking thread.

>>31227705
>13 pages of explaining how viable and useful Decidueye is competitively is shitposting
I love how you chucklefucks don't even try to bring up how it's shitposting, not even bothering with a screenshot of a single post in that thread.

>>31227735
It's people in costant denial like you who made Smogon blacklist Decidueye. Check the thread yourself if you need proof, i couldn't care less

>>31227597
See >>31224298
Decidueye has had its chance, its niche has been found. The reason discussion will be blacklisted (it has a placeholder, but hasn't actually been yet) will be because people shit up the general viability thread insisting their bro can do shit it can't/shouldn't in OU (see the offensive sets in the linked thread).
Also, see what's been said about Arcanine, Donphan and Darmanitan. Owl is in the same boat.

>>31227735
There's a post on page two with two replays - one against someone literally at 1000 ELO and the other where the opponent forfeits after losing two mons. It's shit players circlejerking and denying any naysayers. Smogon has more in common with /vp/ than we'd like to admit

>Owlfags are still upset
More news at 11

When Smogon blacklists a Pokemon, you know it really does belong in that tier.

I don't get why one would push a mon to be OU. Isn't UU the better outcome since it can be freely used in both OU and UU?

>>31228057
>I don't get why one would push a mon to be OU.
Becaude they can't accept that their favorite starter just isn't that good.
Most of them are either children or autists so it's not like you can reason with them.

>>31227061
>Not reading the Pokedex
Its a fking ghost possessing seaweed which growns up on wrecked ship parts

>>31228057
Not even UU tbqh, but that's more suitable at the very least.

Is there a fanbase that could even possibly BE MORE OBNOXIOUS than Decidueye fans? And I'm not talking about Decidueye fans reacting to Smogon blacklisting Decidueye from the OU viability thread. I'm not talking about Decidueye fans reacting to Decidueye blacklist, Decidueye's speed, Dhelmise's existence, its useless Sp.Atk stat and poor hidden ability.

I am talking about alternate universe Decidueye fans in an universe with grass/flying Decidueye, Spirit Shackle heals paralysis, Incineroar is playable in Smash Bros, Decidueye is blacklisted from the PU viability thread, 30 points removed from atk and moved to sp.atk, but Decidueye has no worthwhile special attacks, minus 11 speed, Incineroar has perfectly min maxed stats, Primarina learns Boomburst and Liquid Voice boosts voice moves, Gale Wings isn't nerfed, Rowlet is Mallow's pokemon, Decidueye has no moves, Long Reach is just a reskinned Keen Eye, Grass AND Flying nerfed to be weak to Fairy type, and Dark type pokemon buffed to take half damage from flying type pokemon.

>>31227654
>that wide of a movepool.
>Any alola mon besides drampa
>having anything remotely close to a good movepool

Looks like we've got another gen 4 Electivire situation on our hands, boys.

>>31228690
Lets see now...

Primarina has access to every important water move, ice beam, blizzard, psychic, energy ball, shadow ball, moonblast, dazzling gleam and hyper voice (for its HA). And those are just the attacking moves. So yeah, Primarina does have a pretty wide movepool. In fact, its the only starter of the three that can completely cover all of its weaknesses.

>>31228443
I saw it coming from miles away. Step up your memes.

>>31228772
You're double counting a lot of moves.

>>31228772
I have no idea where this meme came from that Primarina has a bad movepool. Angry, irrational owlfags I suppose.

>>31229064
It's bad for support purposes, it's amazing for a Choice Specs set

>>31228717
nah this wont stay OU throughout the gen or at all for postbank. If anything its a gen 6 arcanine. Constantly brought up but still just shit. Especially during the mega mawile suspect jesus christ they just wouldn't shut the fuck up.

>>31229064
could be better = bad

>>31229064
Also same people who call it frail
When its hp Defense and spdef are perfect

>>31227306
They may not be able to beat Charizard and Decidueye, but that's only because they have a type disadvantage. Decidueye and Charizard are still shit otherwise.

>>31229238
It's Defense could've been higher, losing some points in Attack for more physical bulk. But overall, yeah, its defenses are ok.

Why do people still care about Smogon when they have more in common with Penn State than with Pokemon at this point?

>>31224565
>best grass/ghost
Wow it's fucking nothing

ITT: People who don't play OU, and don't understand the difference between being OU viable, and OU by usage.
Alakazam, M-Gallade(Kinda) and most of BL in ORAS were OU viable, but not OU by usage.
Decidueye is not OU viable, but it's OU by usage because Owlfags are delusional fuckhead shitters who can't build.

>>31230733
t. angry catfag

>>31230756
nah cheeki breeki. I too am Owlfag, but none of these starters are OU viable. The best it can do is Spdef. Defog, but it's not even that good at it with it's Dark weakness.
t.1600 ORAS and Sun Moon OU fgt

>>31230807
>Being an owlfag
Fucking nu-male lmao

>>31227174
They weren't being biased, Zardfags were and did the same thing Owlfags are doing now, shitting up threads trying to shitpost away the fact their Owl isn't good in OU.

Charizard was shit pre-Gen 6 because Mega stones didn't exist. Discussion was only allowed once it actually became worthy of it.

>>31230977
The owl is good in OU. The usage statistics weren't taken from random shitters but from good players who could maintain a high elo with it. It's viable. Deal with it.

>>31228942
I'm keeping moves like blizzard and dazzling gleam separate because they serve different purposes based on the format you're battling in.

Plus the point still stands that Primarina is the only starter of the three that can cover all of her weaknesses equally. And this is coming from an Incineroarfag who will defend Incineroar up and down.

>>31231035
It's not viable, it wouldn't have been blacklisted if it was. Deal with it.

>>31231035
Brongzong is very good in Ubers too, but it's RU because of

U S E A G E

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>>31230977
Charizard was UU in RB, BL in GS, and BL in RS. Charizard went to shit in Gen 4.

>>31231062
You don't need to cover your all your weakness with one mon decently. You have a whole team for that shit. Incineroar is probably gonna be the best one once Intimidate drops, but that's still most likely not gonna be good in OU.

>>31231145
It'll compete with Arcanine really, Both WoW Intimidate users.

It'll probably just be the UU's Arcanine.

>>31231127
There was less than 400 Pokemon in the game before DP, and Charizard was never once strong enough to be considered "good" back then when the competition was much less stiff.

Hell, stuff like Typholision and fucking KADABRA were BL back then.

>>31223916
It's like people insisting Electivire is OU.

It's clearly not, it's a mon used entirely by shitters and they like it because of the design.
It's not OU viable.

>>31223863
Really stimulates the prostate...

>smogonfags
Holy shit try being less gross

Wait, is it in ubers?

>>31231319
OU by usage, not merit.

>>31231319
Yes

>>31231216
Oh well then nevermind then.

>>31230733
It's not OU by usage in the Pokébank meta, stop perpetuating this myth, it makes everyone involved seem more delusional.

This thread is 2meta4me. Not even worth getting angry about.

>>31231532
the only starter that actually won the starter wars of alola is greninja

>>31230977
>They weren't being biased
>refuse to ban objectively broken shit like SR because they know Charizard would push in their shit again if they did
Charizard has always been great.
>>31231065
They're blacklisting it precisely because it is viable, but refuse to acknowledge it in their fervor to favor ugly shitmons that nobody likes. Deal with it.
>>31231216
Bellyzard was a beast, retard.

>>31231532
Wait so Incineroar and Primarina have better rank than decidueye ?
Dawn, now i'm kinda feeling bad for all the people who had hope for the owl.

>>31231655
So good it was never OU before Mega, right?
Zard was never a top threat before gen 6 and Bellyzard is a meme set that only shitters let get up in 2-3. Stop blaming rocks for your shitmon still being shit, it was always shit.

>>31231590
Blaziken is still ubers while shitty frog has 4% usage.

>>31231696
Charizard has always been top tier. Cry more.

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>>31231742
Which is why it was BL in Gen 3 and not OU like Claydol, right?

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So if Decidueye isn't OU worthy because of other mons... why not just ban them to Ubers? The tier's full of legendaries who have no business anywhere but Ubers by definition anyways.

>>31231532
>Primarina ranks the highest out of the starters
How? I like Primarina, but I don't know how it got that high.

>>31231762
BL is the same as OU.

>>31231742
But it's never been Ubers ever. It's only been OU once, and that was it's mega, and it was never, ever considered a top threat in any tier where it was, except for Zard X in early ORAS. It's stats, typing and movepool are the definition of shit. Even Bellyzard was a shit BD mon.
Zard is shit, just like your opinion.

>>31231771
That's not how it works

>>31231783
It's good with choice specs.

>>31231783
Water/Fairy is one of the best typings, offensively and defensively.It has nice Special stats. It's not full shit.

>>31231783
2nd Highest SpAtk of all non-mega, non Uber water types next to Keldeo with more coverage options and has a better defensive typing.

>>31223858

Early metas usage isnt strictly based on viability, Late developed metas usage more correlates with viability.

In simple terms, the beginning of a gen a lot of people bandwagon around some mons that dont stay OU for very long.

>>31231813

Water/Fairy typing and its BST can make it UU but this gen UU is basically OU-lite so I predict low UU or high RU

>>31231742
The highest it's ever been before gen 6 was BL, it's only used because of it's Megas.

>>31231783
It hits hard and can take a hit on the special side, good typing too. No gimmicks or niche sets, just that.

>>31231771
Because Legendary does equal broken. Just accept that the Owl is UU already and stop trying to force him into OU.

>>31231802
It's not. BL just means it's too strong for UU, but not worthwhile in OU to actually be used enough to be there.
Also, reminder that both Kadabra AND Alakazam were BL in Gen 3.
UU back then was the crap pile and NU was where the absolute shittest of shitmons went back then.

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>>31231655

>objectively

>>31231860
Stop taking his bait, everyone knows charizard is bad.

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>>31231808
>>31231860

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>>31231802
Kek

Who the fuck is smogon and why does he get to decide pokemon tierlists?

i laugh every time I see this shitter on someone elses team because I know I'm going to destroy it :) please keep using it! easy wins

>>31231912
Oh boy where to start.

Tiers are based on usage.

>>31231886
Isn't that back when Megas and non-Megas were all in the same tier?

>>31231877
Actually, everyone knows it's the best. That's why it got two megas and is a ridemon.

>>31231886
How does that edit prove your point?

>>31231886
This page doesn't exist. If it does, link it.
This is some shit bait. Like your mon desu. Neck yourself.

>>31231912
Why don't you google it newfag?

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>>31231936
>being this desperate because you got told

>>31231930
It is

>>31231936
>>31231945
That's not an edit, it's from when Mons were in the tier their Megas were in. Once they changed it so that a Mon and its Mega were considered separate entities, Charizard dropped to NU.

>>31231950
I did, I went to the smogon and all I found out was that OU means overused and UU means underused and that doesn't really give me any context as to what this shit is really even about

>>31231973
Overused mons are overused. They are used the most, and are generally very stronk.
Every tier goes down in decending usage, and power.
Little Cup is for stage 1 pokemon that are lv. 5
Ubers is for broken shit, and stuff banned from OU.

>>31231952
Mega Charizard is OU. Charizard is NU. I'm looking at its smogon page right now.

>>31231963
>Smogon got so triggered by Charizard being OU that they had to go out of their way to separate megas and non-megas
My sides.

>>31232054
Don't want kids think that regular charizard is actually good. It's better this way anon.

>>31227413
Venusaur is the coolest starter you sub human

>>31224763
I know we're on a pokemon board, but are you legitimately autistic?

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>>31232115

>>31231762
>>31231216
Reminder that gen3 BL shouldn't even be considered as a legit BL since the people in charge back then would ban for shits and giggles.
Fucking Jumpluff is in gen 3 BL.

Bellyzard is garbage and was stopped by literally anything with 100 base speed. It was even worse in gen 3 where TTar was everywhere and it'd get Sanded to death if it tried to sub belly drum salac.

ITT: Butthurt owlfags demonstrating why they're the cancer of /vp/

>>31232253
Primatards are the cancer though.

>spin blocker/defogger
So I set my hazards up when you set yours up and you get rid of them for me when I throw out a spinner?

>>31232170
Venusaur was the most viable starter for 6 Generations. Stay mad charicuck :^)

>>31232291
Pretty much. And now with baton pass banned from UU, decidueye doesn't have much going for it.

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>>31224035

It's not a good defogger. It's not weak to Stealth Rocks. That's about as much as you can say about it being "good defogger".
It shares that distinction with Starmie (Rapid Spin), Latias, Gligar and Empoleon which are all UU at the moment, so yeah it won't stay UU for long.
And with UU banning Baton Pass altogether, and the tiers below it probably following suit, it'll prob drop to NU/PU to sit with all the other grass types that can't do anything.

>>31232277
What's that? I can't hear you over the whining owlfags that keep trying to start starter wars.

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>>31232332
>Venusaur
>viable
Have fun trying to charge your Solarbeam while Charizard kills you with Flamethrower.

>>31232377
Get out underage

>>31227061
Basically they're both shit, the only success I've had with dhelmise is with a focus sash since he hits so damn hard while the only success I've had with decidueye is softening up the other pokemon for my revenge killer.

>>31232370
>trying to start starter wars

How is it a war when one of the other starters is exclusively for fursuiters and the last starter evolves into the gayest looking piece of shit in all 7 generations.

>>31232368
It also has recovery, which is also nice for a defogger to have. That's about it though.

>>31232599

All the others have as well. Starmie has Recover, Gligar, Latias and Scizor have Roost. Only Empoleon is stuck with inferior Aqua Ring.

>>31232527
You're not proving anything other than the fact that owlfags like starting Starter wars.>>31232527

>>31223350
If they ranked everything by usage, Charizard would've been OU in every generation. You know this, right?

>>31223787
Tiers are literally about usage, not viability.
>OverUSED
>RarelyUSED
>UnderUSED

>>31232527

Spotted the nu-male cuck.

Still mad over Decidueye having no real viability, I guess.

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>>31232377
If you want to act retarded, two can play that game.
>Charizard
>viable
Have fun trying to use your precious Charizard when it dies to a LC mon :^)

>>31232656
There's also Tapu Fini who technically has aqua ring but IDK anyone who would use it on a set

>>31232656
I'm mostly mentioning it because Empoleon is the one that doesn't in UU. But it's still generally worse than Empoleon anyways. I kind of wonder if Tsareena will end up being competition for it or not wherever they land.

>>31232737

Fini is OU. Which I have excluded from my list.
Decidueye is UU at the moment and I doubt it'll stay there. It might be kept up there by shitty players who don't wanna part with a shitty monster because they listen to Verlisify or try to "show it to the man, man" like Ambipom/Typhlosion players in RU last gen.

>>31231532
Why is arcanine on this list?
Is it good now?
Is no-weaknesses-Burn-Up w/ Intimidate as strong as it sounds?

>>31225358
Youre retarded. Greninjas place was added during development, long before XY or your shitty anime came out. Sakurai said he liked the art and would add it. It had nothing to do with "starter cycle" or muh ashnime.

>>31227413
sauce?

>>31231702
Speed Boost is ubers. Blaziken ain't shit without it.

>>31232690
/thread

>>31232708
>implying roggenrola strikes first

>>31232938
Speed Boost isn't shit without Blaziken. Why do you think Ninjask fell off.

>>31232988
>What is a Focus Sash

>>31231808
>typing and movepool are the definition of shit
You know that's objectively wrong, right? Fire/Flying is only not great because of SR, but as an offensive typing, it is great. And it has access to around 10 different types of strong moves, as well as recovery and set up moves.
Charizard is SHIT, but not because of the typing or moves. It's because of it has shit stats and abilities that don't allow it use the typing and moves.

>>31233023
>focus sash
>on a pokemon with sturdy
You're both retarded

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>>31233023
>focus sash sturdy roggenrolla

>>31232988
>what is sturdy
>what is focus sash

>>31232997
Baton.Pass.Ban
Same reason eeveeium z is banned. Smogon can't deal with thinking in a children's game.

>>31233044
>>31233048
>roggenrola can also run sand stream

>>31233044
It has Weak Armor too, so I'm only semi-retarded.

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Y'all niggas need to play more Doubles/VGC.
Played Smogon OU/PU forever and it got stale. Doubles/VGC is a complete breath of fresh air. VGC even more so. I understand that I picked the perfect year to jump into VGC since previous years were cancerous as fuck with Mega Mom and Lando-T: The Meta, but it's honestly really fucking fun at the moment.


I mean fuck, I am using Golduck, and I am recking people with it. GOLDUCK.

That being said, people who still don't know how Smogon works and that the OU/UU tags etc mean nothing still make me laugh. If want to use the owl, use the owl and slap people's shit with it. Don't be a fag about it

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>>31232377
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-409766968

Let's get this shit started
>Charitards

Fuck it's actually sand force. Ignore me.
Thought Roggenrola had sand stream like gigalith

>>31233099
I did the opposite. I got tired of VGCs shit and moved on to singles.

>>31228772
Man is gen 7 really that starved for moves that that's considered wide?

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>>31233204
Funny how that works. The balance must be maintained.

Still, I do still love singles. But I'd probably play RU/PU this time around so I can wreck people with fucking Bibarel.

Simple/Swords Dance AND Aqua jet? I can't wait to destroy people with my retarded beaver.

>all of these dumb bastards who don't know how to use the spoopy Owl
It's extremely good.

>>31233099
I'd try it, but at the same time I feel very lost in doubles. Plus I'm sure most of the things I want to use aren't very good.

>13 pages of a smogon thread before someone says "Listen guys, it's not OU"
>If it weren't for blacklisting, it would have 13 more pages
good riddance
This thread alone should show you why it was blacklisted in the first place

>>31233099
You didn't lick the right time tho, faggot. Genies were swapped out with Tapus. Megas with UB. Its the same shit with a new skin. People refuse to acknowledge this for xyz reasons. Any game system, official or not is boring because competitive is about using the same strategy to prove you're better at mirror matches. Same shit with Yu-Gi-Oh!, Magic, and so forth. Any competitive spin ona children's game will be shit, just look at smash if youre still in denial.

>>31233322
>>31233322

TripsDubs decided that you must try doubles/VGC at least once Anon. It's a completely different way of playing Pokemon.

>>31233347
latest regional was won by a dude with zero Tapus/UBs. Whilst also sporting a fucking Hariyama. This meta is in constant flux, and everytime someone finds a new "thing" an answer is found.

Besides, Tapus/UBs aren't nearly as cancer as Mega Mom/Lando-T and the Primals. Especially the fucking Primals. Holy shit TCPi. What were you thinking.

I will freely admit that Celesteela is a horrible piece of shit though, but usage of Kaguya-hime have dropped

>>31233460
Its in flux because its still in the first month. Regionals don't mean much. When Nationals and Worlds hit we'll decide. Tapus and UB are just as cancerous; look at every other torunament out since launch.

>>31233460
It's cancer when you need a fucking Alola-Marowak on your team to deal with them.

>>31232054
Or maybe its because some megas are so much better than the original, that considering them the same entity is an affront to reason, see for example, Mawile, a shitmon, who got a mega that is several times better than it.

>>31232656
HA where Healing moves heal 35% more HP. :^)

>>31231931
No, that was pandering to nostalgia, which was XY's modus operandi for the most part.

>>31232377
Have fun losing most of your HP to stealth rocks before you can even do anything then.

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>Sun and Moon become the most pre-ordered/fastest selling Nintendo games ever
>Gen 7 character in Super Smash Bros. very likely
>It's going to be the starter with the worst fanbase.

>>31234347
That's impossible, because Incineroar's and Primarina's fanbases are worse.

>>31234389
I think this is the first time that all the starters have had truly cancerous fanbases.

>>31233347
/thread

> caring about smogon for anything other than a starting point for set lists and ev spreads

>>31234389
Does Primarina even fucking have a fanbase?

>>31235003
>caring about what other people care about
dumb phoneposter

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>>31233110
The real highlight of the battle, fuck the bulbasaur

>Smogon
>Blacklisting Decidueye discussion (?)

I'm sorry if I'm being rude in any way or fashion, but what even made them do this in the first place? Was it for a legitimate reason like owlfags (the more pushy part of the fanbase) being inconsiderate and constantly pushing it as being anything OU or was it more out of pettiness/nitpicking?

just seems kinda sudden

literally nothing wrong with this
>tiers are generally based on usage with the exception of banlist tiers like uber and BL
>decidueye has high usage but terrible stats
>it's ranked as unviable and has literally no niche
The total ban on discussion is a bit silly but it's to stop idiots spamming the threads about their bro not being OU. Decidueye does literally nothing that another non uber Pokemon can't do better.

>>31236125
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/decidueye.3587254/

tl;dr:
>"M-my set will make it OU, use it!"
>It's not that good
>"Y-you're wrong. This this and this will work for it and make it OU"
Rinse and repeat to the tune of 13 pages of a forum.

They had enough of people trying to make it OU-viable when it's been proven time and again that it doesn't have that good a niche.

>>31227223
>responding to blatant b8

>>31227377
>implying

Venusaur has only been OU since 5.

>>31235021

It does.

Kind of.

>>31236183

wew

I don't even get what the big deal is regarding OU, Decidueye fans who are into competitive shouldn't even think about the bird being OU, it's just too much of a bloody mess, even more with mons like Celesteela and whatever the heck clogging that shit up.

Despite being a fan of the bird, I'd rather see him PROPERLY put in a fitting tier with pokemon he can deal with rather than stuffing him on a tier where he'd probably be on the bottom compared to everything else.

If there is somehow a way to make it OU, then by all means, run a test to see if it actually works, it's always nice to see the full potential of a mon and how far it can go, but I can't say I can really see the necessity of the bird being OU at all costs.

>>31234389
So far owlfags are definitely winning thanks to bitching about muh OU

>>31236424

Tbh it will drop HARD since UU just banned Baton Pass altogether (which is one of the few niches it had).
It's basically only good for being a Defogger not weak to SR and being able to stop Rapid Spinners.

That's pretty much it. It doesn't have the speed to sweep, too weak for Scarf, too slow for Band.
It's just all-around a bit of a pisser, and probably the weakest of the starters this gen, but this (aside from gen 2+6) is par for the course for grass type mons.

>>31236958
*gen 1+6

>>31234389
Owlfags are the only ones that shit up other threads though. Yeah, Tigerfags are baratards, but they keep to their own threads. And even then, most Tiger threads are poking fun at the fact that their big "badass" cat is still just a cat.

I almost never see Primarina getting love, but there are threads about. And they also mostly keep to themselves.

>>31236958
> Baton Pass ban

Ok, what is Smogon's hate boner against Baton Pass? I have never seen a move THIS hated before. Sure, long ass Baton Pass chains getting restricted was sensible. But banning the move altogether is way severe.

>>31237094

It's annoying to deal with since there's almost no stopping it. Some Pokémon that are "manageable" become unstoppable with a speed/attack boost. They'd rather just ban the move outright than making several complex bans.

But that's UU council. It's still legal in OU, but no way is Decidueye good enough to play with the big boys so that point's moot (plus OU has better Baton Passers if they need it)

>>31236214
In XY and SM it's RU.

>>31237027

I barely come to these boards anyway but

>Tend to see a awful lot of Incineroar and Primarina focused threads (which may or may not come with bara art or lewd art respectively, it's honestly impossible for any of those threads not to have them given the nature of these image boards), some shitposting here and there, as per usual (at least, by 4chan's standards), some either call Incineroar fans bara fans or Primarina fans waifu fans of some sort which isn't surprising

>It's actually quite rare for me to find a legitimate Decidueye thread for whatever reason, one that doesn't obviously start with something that feels like it's mocking the fans themselves somehow

>On the rare chance that I do find a legitimate thread that doesn't start with blatant starter war triggers which may or may not be bait (although most feel way too blatant to be bait), most of the thread isn't all that bad and posts reasonable fan art, but does occasionally get shot down (?) by some random ass posts that barely make sense? (Like, the thread starts well-intended, but then some post comes in to sour everything?)

Time zones are a thing and I might be missing more threads than what I may know, but it's like Decidueye threads are being shunned or at least, Decidueye fans don't really feel like they need a thread that much because they might know what might happen after a while. For some reason, people are putting the term "nu-male" to use with it and its fans as well. Apparently, only beta men like Decidueye as the beta male that he is or something of that sort, but that seems to make as much sense as calling all Incineroar fans bara fans and all Primarina fans waifu fans, which is far from the truth.

Maybe because of the backlash they've gotten, Primarina and Incineroar fans are making multiple threads to support the starters further, but when it comes to owl fans making threads, they aren't really that interested in making one unless someone happens to make one.

>>31236214
>>31237564
Its always had relevant usage in OU regardless of the tier its been in.

>>31238125
But that doesn't make it OU.

>>31232527
And the owl is for nu-males. What's your point?

>>31232794
absolutely fuckall in terms of intimidate options