/vgcg/ - VGC General

>>31211332
> you can get a regular Dugtrio without Bank
wait what

>>31211415
i think you can only get Kanto Diglett but not Dugtrio

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Who do you guys think will be the next bandwagon mon?

We all know Fini won't stay tip top of the game forever and we are already seeing stuff like Vikabolt for more TR abuse and a reliable way to kill her.

Will it be Hail's time to shine? Will things go full circle and Koko and Bulu will take the center-stage again to remove Fini? Will Lele ever become as dominant here as she's currently being in Singles someday?

>>31211766
Vikavolt I guess, I've already seen a couple in showdown

>>31211714
You can't get any non-Alolan Form of Alolan Form Pokémon without Bank

>>31211332
>Because they're already available and banned
Do you know of where in the rules it says this?

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I want to battle you guys! Lets trade friends codes and help each other with our pokemon teams!

Add me on kik

RedMatzoo

>Wanna make a Sand Team
>Wonder if A-Dugtrio is actually worth it
>Do the calcs
>It's EQ is only 5% stronger than Garchomp's even under Sand
>Iron Head is 30% stronger than Garchomp's
>Rock Slide is like 1% stronger

Really not worth it desu.

>>31211389
>VGC15
fucking lol

>>31211389

I'm watching VGC videos, and vikavolt is dead weight every single fucking time (although I haven't seen it on trick room yet)

What is this meme

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>>31212285

Can I get some advice on my doubles team?

Tapu Koko - Timid Choice Specs
Volt Switch
Thunderbolt
Dazzling Gleam
Discharge

Tapu Lele - Modest Psychium Z
Psychic
MoonBlast
Protect
Taunt

Mudsale - Brave Assault Vest
High Horsepower
Close Combat
Heavy Slam
Earthquake

Oranguru - Sassy Focus Sash
Protect
Instruct
Taunt
Trick Room


Alola Muk - Brave Black sludge
Knock off
Shadow Sneak
Protect
Poison Jab

Gastrodon - Relaxed Sitrus Berry
Scald
Toxic
Ice beam
Protect

I have yet to do any battles with it. Looking for some improvement before I jump in.

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>>31212294

>>31211415
>>31212195

I'm pretty sure that anon is just shitposting. Kanto forms can't be obtained yet, but should be legal once bank comes up.

>>31212294
I take it you weren't on /vp/ back then?
VGC IS DEAD was half the board.

>>31213071
Judgefag here
They're not mentioned anywhere in the rules, and there's no official word on whether or not they will be allowed. You could test it yourself by waiting for a non-Alolan form and seeing if it's allowed in a local battle using the World Championships rules. I imagine it'd be banned from the online ladder anyway since they're not available.

Whats sets were people running with Fini? Bold nature at least?

>>31213220
I've seen some Calm ones, and there's variations in the item slot from lefties, berries, specs and more.

>>31212299
>although I haven't seen it on trick room yet
There you go. Its biggest flaw is its shit speed. So in TR it (in theory) gets a lot better. Havnt tried it out myself but sounds promising.

>>31213266
So generally its either calm or bold then ? Man i really regret not checking for nature when i caught mine.

>>31213418
If you have soundhax you could use PKSM and change it

>>31211766
I think Porygon-Z will become large

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>>31212288
Special A-Dugtrio is eh.

252 SpA Choice Specs Sand Force Dugtrio-Alola Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 68 SpD Marowak-Alola in Sand: 186-222 (111.3 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Sand Force Dugtrio-Alola Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 28 SpD Arcanine in Sand: 194-230 (98.4 - 116.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Sand Force Dugtrio-Alola Flash Cannon vs. 28 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Lele in Sand: 134-158 (89.9 - 106%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

Specs Dugtrio's greatest trait is that it can deal with Arcanine (barring the ones that carry psychic/misty seed) without worrying about the attack drop.

>>31213583
wrong thread?

>>31214430
>specs Dugtrio in sand
Better use Palossand for that matter. You forgo the speed, but it won't die as easily and you don't need the sand, and for that matter, Gigalith can also deal decently well with Marowak, Arcanine and Lele, so it kinda makes Dugtrio unneeded

>>31211766
>We all know Fini won't stay tip top of the game forever and we are already seeing stuff like Vikabolt
>Vikavolt
How?

>>31214583
>but it won't die as easily
Don't kid yourself, Palossand can't take hits at all it just has way too many weaknesses to do so.

A-Dugtrio is a piece of shit that actively is worse than regular Dugtrio in all the important areas but it still has more going for it than Palossand which actually can't do anything before it gets snuffed out. Palossand actually has like absolutely no support options at all besides Shore Up for recovery and isn't even that strong enough to justify running TR for.

Really far as Sand teams go in this meta most of the best options don't even strictly need to use Sand.

>>31214583
A-Dugtrio has Sand Force, Palossand doesn't.

The idea of the Special variant was to outrun and OHKO Arcanine before it burns Gigalith (something that the physical set can't accomplish thanks to intimidate).

>>31214673
>Palossand can't take hits at all it just has way too many weaknesses to do so.
I'm guessing you're the kind of guy that says '>swinub used snow powder' when somebody says garchomp is good.
yeah it has weaknesses, but overall Ghost/Ground is a pretty good typing offensively and defensively. I agree Palossand is a shitmon, but as far as special gorund-type goes, it's better than dugtrio.

>>31214870
>A-Dugtrio has Sand Force, Palossand doesn't.
yeah, that's the point. Palossand does similar damage without needing that much support and without being locked to that move. But hey, if you wanna use dugtrio be my guest

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>>31214959
>ignoring half of my argument
Palossand can't kill Arcanine, Marowak or Lele before they can do anything, Dugtrio can while being 75 points faster. Is it really that hard to understand?

Before you say "muh trick room" there are far better TR attackers than Palossand.

>>31214870
If that is your only aim then just consider this.

>252 SpA Choice Specs Flygon Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 28 SpD Arcanine: 194-230 (98.4 - 116.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

Because that is actually what you're working with something that is only as strong as a Spec Flygon that doesn't even work half the time if Sand isn't up.

I realize the aim is to bait them to stay in for the kill but realistically those kind of surprises only work if it isn't the only thing it can do and it can do it consistently.

>>31214959
>I'm guessing you're the kind of guy that says '>swinub used snow powder' when somebody says garchomp is good.
No I'm the kind of guy who actually goes and uses the thing, checks calcs and realizes it survives and kills nothing important that something else couldn't already with less difficulty.

100 S.atk is definitely not good enough, it's not even enough to OHKO the Arcanine mentioned earlier by >>31214430 Ground/Ghost is only good offensively in the sense that it gets neutral on a lot of things but you need the offensive stat to back it up.

Also if you can think of a relevant calc where it can realistically tank something reasonable to hit back then feel free to show it. But last I recall even Tapu Fini can annihilate it with it's 90 s.atk. Plus it still has to risk being doubled up on whilst not even killing in return it's intended target in return.

If you're going to be so ridiculously slow you can even underspeed most TR users you better have the payoff to show for it. I think SpecTrio is stupid with how situational it is but at least it has the speed and potential KO's to show for it.

>>31215565
The problem with Flygon is that gets outspeed and OHKOed by Garchomp, Koko and Ninetales while speed tieing with Mence. In addition, Dugtrio's steel stab is far better than Flygon's Dragon stab.

I wasn't trying to cause such a big fuss over 1 mon. I was just pitching the idea of a special variant (that I saw topped a premiere challenge recently) to the anon that wanted to try out A-Dugtrio for a Sand team he was making.

>>31215479
>Palossand can't kill Arcanine, Marowak or Lele before they can do anything, Dugtrio can while being 75 points faster. Is it really that hard to understand?
yeah Dugtrio can do that, only if you got sand up and you are using a suboptimal set. That kind of stuff will win you some games, but won't be really good consistently
>Before you say "muh trick room" there are far better TR attackers than Palossand.
That was my initial point. There are better things in general to deal witho those mons than special Dugtrio, but since you're using your gimmick Dugtrio anyway I don't see what's wrong about using the sandcastle in TR. Slap a life orb on it and then you KO Marowak, Lele and Arcanine before they move. Are you really gonna tell me TR is farfetched when you need sand AND specs on a 50 base SpA mon to do that? There are better things than Palossand of course, but it gets the same job done with a similar amount of support.

If you're worried about intimidate, Tectonic Rage would get the KO on the fire types, and Iron head would do a lot to Lele anyway, and without intimidate it gets the KO.

>>31215565
Yeah if you read carefully you'll notice I say Palossand is in fact shit. The point is that instead of sand+choice specs, you can TR and use this instead and you can achieve the same things Dugtrio can. It's less than ideal, but it also works.
>If you're going to be so ridiculously slow you can even underspeed most TR users you better have the payoff to show for it. I think SpecTrio is stupid with how situational it is but at least it has the speed and potential KO's to show for it.
Again, same as Dugtrio, you can slap a life orb on it and it will get some good KOs. Ghost and Ground are pretty alright in this current meta, and sure it won't take hits that well, but it will take most of them better than Dugtrio, which is what I was saying.

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This discussion reminds me of the thing I dislike the most about VGC17: No fucking options.

Everything that can be has a little teensy bit to be just enough but not "enough" so that you can have wide-variety of choices. It's specially noticeable with weather where we have all four fucking setters and pretty much no abusers for it.

And you can't even make up for lack of types by sheer movepool coverage because no Tutors and your average Alola shitmon movepool is completely and utterly barren of everything they require to be half-decent.

>>31216572
So you're annoyed because you find it fun being able to choose between a large variety of moveset combinations? I really don't think that the general level of Pokémon being weaker than previous years (which it almost certainly is) makes this metagame any less varied, balanced or skill-based than previous years.

god bless...

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The opposing Pelipper used Soak!
Goodra transformed into the Water type!
The opposing Tapu Koko used Thunder!
It's super effective! Goodra lost 74.1% of its health!
The opposing Tapu Koko lost some of its HP!

>>31217388
In fairness, that is AV and Goodra is insanely specially bulky.
I imagine that combo gets the KO on most things.

>>31217388
Surprise motherfucker.

>>31217418
I know. I was the one using the goodra. I love how specially bulky it is, that it can even survive stupidly strong hits like that.

>>31217388
How did pelipper go first? I like the idea with bulu wood hammer, which while annihilate anything, but most soak users are too slow to go before your other pokemon. And if you have to wait until next turn, the opponent will already know what you're going for.

>>31217461
This was turn one, so I guess it's scarved.

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Should I go for careful or sassy Celesteela?

>>31217716
fuck

>>31217716
Modest.

>>31217461
I'm guessing scarf. I've also seen that with Golduck in rain and Kartana, it's scary if it get's out of hand

>>31217716
Well, depends on what you want to do with it, but Sassy is alright

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Anyone have any ideas for a 6th? needs to be a water type

http://pastie.org/10987937

My team is fairly weak to ground attacks right now, as I have no good switch-ins for them

At the moment I'm tied between specs fini, offensive prima, gyara (maybe), araquanid, and milotic. I want something pretty offensive.

why haven't i seen whimsicott ever?

>>31218558
Lele.

>>31218575
Speaking of Lele, is the Lele/Pheromosa meme still a meme?

I feel like I only see Lele on Eevee meme teams too.

>down to 1500's again in BS

I'VE TRIED SO HARD
AND GOT SO FAR

>>31218647
How can you drop so hard?

>>31218704
IN THE END

>>31211389
how the fuck are people building Incineroar?
252 hp / 252 atk / 4 spd?
Assault Vest?
Incinium Z?

>>31218963
AV with fake out, darkest lariat, flare blitz, and either snarl or u-turn

>>31217716
Adamant: sub, seed, heavy slam, rock slide

>>31219115
Do people run it with Brave nature with 0 IV in speed to get the most out of Snarl/trick room support?

>>31218822
>opponent has evo-boosted baton pass drampa vs my weakened muk

STANDING
ON THE EDGE

Now that the dust has settled, what's the best to worst ranking of the starters here in VGC17?

>>31220945
Incineroar a best that's for sure

>>31220945
Incineroar>Primarina>Decidueye
Incineroar is a strong fire type with fake out and possibly intimidate some day, and dark is useful as well.
Primarina is pretty much outclassed as a water type, but it's pretty strong and it can do perish song and encore things I guess, also has energy ball which could be useful against other water types maybe. A Specs set could work.
Decidueye isnt' very strong and it's movepool isn't great. It has STABs, and that's pretty much it. It's usable, but for everything it can do you could find something to do it better.

Is anyone else using Krookodile?

What is your set for it and how has it been doing?

>>31221392
No, Krookodile is a dangerous street drug that causes your flesh to necrotize.

is there any complete counter to every mimikyu trick room set in a bo1 format?

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>tfw you'll never make it to the top of the ladder

>>31213153
Remember the shooting?

>>31220945
I have gotten a lot of mileage out of Primarina on my team. Moonblast covers things pretty well, energy ball does a number on most things (and usually one shots gastrodon), and scald works okay. It's pretty situational, but i've found it to work best late game, unless my opponent's team is particularly weak to it.

>>31218575
It can still use Tailwind and Helping Hand in Psychic Terrain, in fairness. It just blocks Encore, Taunt, Fake Tears etc.

>>31221784
There's very little that ever counters "x Pokémon" under all circumstances, when you account for different movesets, items and partnered Pokémon. If you're scared of Mental Herb (or it being taunted and then just attacking you anyway), the best answer would probably just be a Garchomp EQ to break the Disguise, then a Celesteela Heavy Slam to KO it. Still loses out to Focus Sash, Follow Me, Wide Guard, Fake Out etc. though

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>Day has been awful for a plethora of reason /not my blog
>Wanna lighten my mind some
>Go play today with this particular I've been using for a while and it's been the team I've gotten the hightest ever in ladder
>Get haxed left and right on matches I would otherwise have won
>Everyone's carrying exactly the shit that my team has difficulties with
>Play like shit and then even worse
>Drop like 300 points
>Lose all my confidence in myself and the team I so much loved
>Wanted to use it on a local thingy this weekend but now I fear I'll get destroyed by everyone and their mom
I feel like crying.

>>31224946
I want the meta to stabilize.

Where can I watch the footage from Dallas?I checked the PokemonVGC twitch but the last broadcast was from San Jose.

>>31220969
Will incineroar's usage increase when Intimidate is available?

>>31226631
I predict yes.

Some people are woried about what a Fire/Dark typing hits offensively in the meta, but Tiger is slow, gets fake out and can neither be prankstered nor burned.

Unless you really want to hit opposing Porygons, I think Incineror will replace Hariyama on Trick Room teams.

>>31225818
pokemon_vgc_center (twitch)

Or aomething like that

>>31218558
It just can't function properly.

Everyone and their mother has multiple ways of raping fairies because of the Guardians being so dominant.

Lele alone has warped the meta to the point nobody is running priority letting speedsters rampage everywhere unchecked and everything under 95 base that doesn't resist Psychic is almost a free KO.

Whimsicott can do virtually nothing in this meta except throw up a Tailwind.

Actually the severe lack of ways of actually checking being able to check Lele in this meta really disturbs me.

>>31224946
Iktf bro

>>31218647
>>31218822

Is Goodra any good in doubles?

>>31227598
>every thread

>>31211389
Why so many Japs in 2015?

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which not-alolan-dex pokémon would you like to have in VGC 2017?

>>31228151
Kingdra, kabutops, ludicolo

>>31228151
I kinda wanted to try out scarf nidoking before realizing nidos aren't in the dex.

Should I go with stockpile or minimize if I wanna make tanky stalling Alola Muk?

What are some unique Alola mons that have had some amount of success, or are just straight up useable? I'm talking mons like Komala, Comfey, Wishiwashi and others.

>>31228754
Kommo- o, A- ninetails, araquanid, A- muk, all Tapus, celesteela, Cutiefly, drampa, A-marowak, toxapex, bewear, oranguru, shades of Vikavolt, and ha incineroar

Guys, what is the reccomended nature for SM legendaries? Now that IV dont matter I feel like soft reseting for a good nature isnt a waste of time anymore.
Solgaleo: Jolly?
Buzzwole: Jolly?
Kartana: Jolly?
Xurkitree: Timid?
Magearna: Modest?

>>31228990
huh?

>>31227648
>2015 meta rewarded raw experience and knowledge
>Japan were the ones who grinded the battle spot ladder more than anyone else
>they realized that the CHALK ladder team was worth bringing to worlds despite being predictable because it was fucking good and they knew how to use it
>westerners tried to be anti-meta instead and it backfired

http://www.smogon.com/stats/2016-12/gen7vgc2017-1630.txt
>fini only 13th
a month is a long time I guess
movesets are interesting too
http://www.smogon.com/stats/2016-12/moveset/gen7vgc2017-1630.txt
a lot less morning sun on arcanine than I thought there would be.

>>31228641
Minimize for sure. With it at least you're less susceptible to crtis.

FUCK

>>31230323
?

>>31228151
Fucking excadrill.

>>31229355
>>westerners tried to be anti-meta instead and it backfired
in all fairness, there were a good deal of players that went anti-meta and got X-2, the top system was bullshit, as usual

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>minimize muk + z-psych up fini

fini is cute!

Anyone have suggestions for a solid Kartana counter that can rape every variation of it two ways to Sunday besides Celesteela?

I'm fucking pissed off with the thing and I just want something that'll beat both the Sash and AV versions under every condition every time.

>>31231629
a r c a n i n e

>>31231629
...arcanine?

Is it me or weather teams and oranguru-gimmick teams are now almost gone? Can't seem to find them in battle spot anymore.

Is it that or just people copying Championship teams instead?

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>>31228151
Pic related, and also loads of stuff that most people probably hate
>Venusaur
>Ferrothorn
>Ludicolo
>Kingdra
>Tyranitar
>Nidoqueen
>Scrafty
>Hitmontop

>>31232079
have you ever used dragalge succesfully in VGC?
if so, in which year? with what set?

>>31232105
I won a VGC tournament at my university with it, and got to the finals of a 22-person Premier Challenge with it in VGC 2015.
It's really fun but it obviously has its drawbacks.
It was Choice Specs with Draco Meteor, Dragon Pulse, Sludge Bomb and HP Fire. I'd usually just leave it in the back and aim to pick up their last Pokémon with that massive Adaptability Draco Meteor.

>In 1500s on Showdown
>Opponent leads Tapu Lele and Hariyama
>Hariyama uses Fake Out
How do they even win that many games without realising?

Vikavolt or Jolteon with Tapu Koko?

>1.7 million VGC17 battles on showdown in December
That's a huge increase, the London tournament must have given a lot of exposure, plus heaps of the pleb youtubers are starting to play it

>>31233475
raichu

vikavolt is better under TR and as your only electric mon. It levitates so it can't abuse the electric terrain.

If anybody's interested, I'm being massively autistic and doing a bit of analysis on the November and December Showdown usage stats (on the 1500 ranking cutoff).

Biggest jumps in usage (of Pokémon that have ever been top 100) are:
1. Golduck (111->37, 74 places)
2. Magnezone (61->27, 34 places)
3. Goodra (65->35, 30 places)
4. Gigalith (46->18, 28 places)
5. Gastrodon (38->12, 26 places)

Biggest drops:
1. Parasect (60->88, 28 places)
2. Silvally-Ground (96->123, 27 places)
3. Passimion (88->114, 26 places)
4. Shiinotic (68->94 26 places)
5. Wishiwashi (27->49, 22 places)

Highest fractional rises and drops are Golduck and Xurkitree respectively

I also find it really funny how Gluttony Muk has gone from 2.36% usage in November to 44.49% usage in December

>>31233710
>golduck
why people insist on using it? I've still have to see one golduck doing fine, either in a stream, in BS or in showdon

>>31233797
I've used it quite a lot. Drizzle+Swift Swim will always be an easy win against unprepared players, and Hydro Vortex in rain OHKOing everything that doesn't resist just compounds that, even if Ludicolo, Kingdra and M-Swampert are illegal.

It's a lot like Perish Trap or Extreme Evoboost teams. It's dumb and it shouldn't work against anybody with half a brain, but you can get a load of wins easily with it.

>>31233797
didn't cybertron got top 4 in San Jose running that?

>>31233797
>why people insist on using it?
Because it's literally the only good swift swimmer there is.

>I've still have to see one golduck doing fine
I'm pretty sure you've not seen many matches then.

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>>31233797
>mfw people lead golduck + pelipper against me
gastrodon gives no fucks

>>31233866
IIRC he used double duck at both London and San Jose.
It's good, but Golduck is just so shit without a secondary typing to account for things like Gastrodon.

>>31233971
well, you have a team of 6 for a reason you know

>>31233971
i enjoy running double duck + either av kartana or energy ball drampa. running other cores that lead well vs a team with gastrodon work too, thats what cybertron does with lele/metagross

>>31231657
>>31231658
Doesn't really work when you consider Kartana is most common on Rain teams, Arcanine is a free kill.

getting real tired of that gay ass dog arcanine coming in and ruining my day with intimidate AND the fire z-move

have one fucking superefective z cristal to use it aginst it

>>31234673
mint to quot >>31234654

>>31234673
>Protect doesn't exist
>Switching doesn't exist

Yeah nice "counter" you got there.

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>>31235064
you can hit it even with protect

and come on man, you speak about switching and precisely you can predict when arcanine it's coming in

in fact intimidate users are one of the easiest predictions you can make

>>31235173
In fairness, the damage from Z-Moves through Protect is so low, it feels kind of negligible. I get the feeling they just added it in to stop people feeling frustrated that their once-per-game power was completely wasted.

FUCK OFF KARTANA

I'M SICK OF YOU AND SEEING YOU IN EVERY DAMN TEAM

>>31235363
what about only using it after the pokémon protected it, nad meanwhile hit it with the non z move

example:
>scald into arcanine
>scald into arcanine
>protects
>z scald

>>31235409
I don't think you explained that very well. Do you mean
Turn 1: Scald Arcanine, Scald Arcanine. Arcanine attacks.
Turn 2: Z-Scald Arcanine, Protect
or
Turn 1: Scald Arcanine, Scald Arcanine, Arcanine Protects
Turn 2: Z-Scad Arcanine, Arcanine dies, your other Pokémon attacks
or what?

Well, it's impossible to use Fini anymore.

People would run two fucking Kartanas per team if they could at this point.

What should I run now lads?

>>31235452
That shitty Lilligant Tokroal thing that was popular last month
Shits on Double Kartana lead.

>>31235452
Kartana.

>>31235452
Ember to counter kartana

>>31235452
fuck off

>>31235452
At this point I feel like Kartana is probably one of the most toxic things in this meta right now along with Lele, Koko and Celesteela.

109 speed base and 181 atk with psuedo Moxie and that move coverage and typing was fucking insane of the devs to make. Then they go and make a dex selection which consists of almost nothing but sub-60/70 speed shitters and lacks anything which can actually sponge a attack properly to trade blows with it.

If there was a better example Gamefreak can't design a multiplayer to save their life Aloladex is the living proof.

>>31235723
>Toxic
Back to tumblr lad.

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The opposing Tapu Fini used Z-Rain Dance!
The opposing Tapu Fini boosted its Speed using its Z-Power!
It started to rain!
The opposing Snorlax used Recycle!
The opposing Snorlax found one Aguav Berry!

>>31235723
I use kartana and there's plenty of ways to deal with it. I hate seeing anything that can outspeed it or anything that can take a hit. Porygon2 will always download spatk against it.

>>31235784
>The opposing Snorlax used Recycle!
>The opposing Snorlax found one Aguav Berry!
Please no

>>31235908
Oh yeah those pesky Porygon2. Top tier Kartana counter, if only Kartana had a fighting-type attack or something.

>>31235929
Sacred sword likely won't even 2HKO. Quit being a faggot about it.

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>>31235929
>non STAB fighting attack OHKOing eviolite P2

>>31235958
>>31235999
>Not being +1

>>31211389
What made Ludicolo good and why did he stop being good?

Also tell me about Ray Rizzo.

>>31236107
fucking newfags

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I fucking hate this meta so much

Bring back NatDex

I hate not being able to use anything that's good and settle for watered down

I'm sick of not being unable to counter shit that something that's not allowed would easily cockblock sideways to next year

I utterly hate I can't play weather teams because there's no abusers at all

I despite the Tapus broken pieces of shit and most of all I hate all the shitmons Alola brought that are utterly useless and make all the few options there are this year even fewer than they already are

I even fucking miss Megas because despite being broken piece of a shit mechanic with terrible execution I miss pick a mega and build around it teambuilding

Fuck you Gamefreak I hate you so much I hate you too TCPi and your shitty metagames and shitty organization of the circuit

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>>31236774

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>>31236774
>Bring back NatDex
>Bring back megas

>>31236980
t. CHALK memester.

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>>31236107

Someone redpill me on AssVest Kartana. I wanna try it.

>>31237021
>CHALK memester
>CHALK is only available if megas and natdex are back
What did he mean by this?

>>31237199
it lets it actually switch in on things and survive more than one resisted special attack

>>31237199
It's surprisingly bulky. Which on a fast and strong attacker is pretty good.

0 SpA Arcanine Heat Wave vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Kartana: 136-168 (101.4 - 125.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

>>31238432
I find it amusing that Z flamethrower from 50 base spatk would be able to OHKO through protect, barring sash.

>>31238531
The wording of your post made me think kartana got flamethrower- I was almost about to consider running it for a mirror match until I checked serebii

>>31233531
It's more than postbank OU got.

are there any decent grass types that aren't Bulu or Kartana?

>>31239377
Grass silvally

>>31240544
>Grass silvally is the third best grass type in the meta
JUST

>>31240544
Is grass silvally even viable? and why are there no Z- Pysch-up or Pysch-up Tapu Fini's out there?

>>31240668
This metagame seems to be all about inventing your own tech - so if you don't see something, it's probably because it doesn't stand out enough to center a team around, or it hasn't been useful on anyone's team. Try making a team around it.

>>31241050
Can you fucking not?

Idiots like you are what cause newer players to have the pachirisu mentality and go 1-5 at the local PCs

>>31241145
Why are you buttmad, again? Saying "try to build a team around it" doesn't mean "try to make something work that won't". If a newer player tests out a team, doesn't get results, then goes on to trying out this team at a local PC, that's their problem.

>>31241145
Violent reaction. Is your home life troubling you?

>>31241145
Jeez man, were you the 'pachirisu-mentality' guy's only win in that PC? Why so mad?

>>31241471
>>31241378
>>31241356
People like (You) are holding back the growth of the game and it's honestly sickening. Eat shit you fucking shitters.

>>31242163
This is bait.

http://pastebin.com/XRiE1Zcf

How shit is this?

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>>31241145
>not liking easy wins at PCs

>>31242813
Why not test it out and see?

so are there any events going on right now? I need some comfy streams

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>>31236774
>Bring back NatDex

>>31244777
No.
Athens is this month, though isn't it?

How do you know if a team is "good"?

Or, rather, how do you settle on a team? How do you even figure "Yes, this team is working" or not? What makes you decide to keep at it rather than drop it?

I have this horrible habit of starting to think a team I'm confident, have won lots and I feel comfortable with is utter trash when I run into a losing streak, and the opposite goes if I enter a win streak. How do I achieve balance?

>>31245056
When you lose a match, ask yourself what went wrong. If you think that you still would have lost even with leading differently, bringing different Pokemon or making better plays, then the team probably has flaws and needs tweaking

>>31245056
If I have a good way to deal the common pokemon, it's good enough for me. Sometimes I don't play well, or don't bring the right pokemon, but that's no fault of the team.

>>31245095
The issue is that you can always make better plays.
But just because it's always possible to win doesn't mean that the team is actually good.

>>31245095
With that said there is a problem I'm experiencing more often this meta than I've ever done so.

Whilst it is the right mentality to review why you got your shit kicked in, how do you solve the problem of speed tie coin flip match ups? It's actually super common this gen because of the lack of fast options and best TR options being samey in speed causing a lot of mirrors.

>>31241145
>reee i have to know more than 10 pokemon exist

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>>31218575
>whimsicott doesn't get Grassy Terrain to overwrite lele's terrain

>>31221784
>Whirlwind has higher priority than trick room

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>>31246335
>Manual Terrain

How many rounds do premier challenges usually go?

>>31246390
>not using manual terrain to fuck over tapus

how do i get into VGC2017?

the last time i tried it was in 2015 ORAS edition, and it was shit. used coockie cutter team for the sake of trying it

>>31221784
Roar and Whirlwind.

Lucario is an amazing "slap it into any team" pokemon for that.

Lucario @ Focus Sash
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Bullet Punch
- Roar
- Follow Me

This Lucario can:
-'t be faked out
- 2HKO Porygon2
- Snipe Lele at ~45% if you can swap the terrain
- Allow you to get a specific move off with your partner pokemon
- deny trickroom at least once

Back in the glory days, this Lucario set doubled up as a Kangaskhan counter (immune to fake out and OHKOs it), but it's surprisingly still a thing.

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I was looking around and found this site

http://www.pikalytics.com/pokedex/vgc2017

I have no idea from where the usage stats are from, I'm assuming Showdown, but while relatively simple it's a handy tool. It shows usage numbers, common moves, teammates, items, abilities and spreads. All ordered and with pretty colors.

Very handy, worth a share.

>>31247131
Yeah it's from showdown
Good replacement until we get mon data from the PGL.

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Do you have a Pokemon that you can't use properly no matter what despite that Pokemon being a tip top everyone and their mom uses and is on every team Pokemon?

I have no idea how to use Lele. She's a dead weight 99% of the time. She's ridiculously frail and can't never seem to get a chance to hit anything and more often than not I find myself wishing I had used other Tapu over her because I miss priority.

>>31247349
>Lele
>frail
It's got great special defense and enough defense to not die to the average physical attack

>>31247349
Koko and Fini. I never feel confident enough to bring them, so when I do, they never do anything worthwhile.

>>31247349
Garchomp
I never want to bring it because I don't even want to risk having it out against celesteela, which is pretty common

On the flip side, I always make room on my team for Muk. I think it's absolutely essential to have the option for knock off in a best of 3 tournament. It's a lot easier to make plays when you know that kartana can't protect because of ass vest or Lele can't because of scarf. Poison is also somehow a good offensive type now so it's good to have a reliable STAB move too

>>31247740
>I think it's absolutely essential to have the option for knock off in a best of 3 tournament.
Gee, if only Knock Off wasn't locked behind Tutors and 90% of it's users also required Tutor to learn it.

>>31247740
Realistically you should be able to deduce an item far more often than finding it out by knocking it off. Life Orb, White Herb, Sitrus Berry etc. are obvious but you can easily deduce Choice items and Assault Vest if you know your speed tiers, damage calcs etc. well enough.

>>31247935
Scarf is pretty much impossible to detect until seeing it in the act.

Even seeing ability activation order method is flawed because what if the scarfed mon is faster than his partner even without a scarf?

Even if you know your calcs, what if you were banking on OHKO that doesn't happen because of vest and then get KO'ed back? How about banking on taking a hit but get KO'ed instead because you weren't expecting the band/spec/orb?

He specifically mentioned bo3 where information gathering is vital so while obviously you should be able to deduce stuff with logic and common sense knocking shit off to be certain or find random shit you wouldn't expect doesn't hurt either.

>>31247998
I agree Knocking off things doesn't hurt, but paying attention during the first game of a Bo3 gives you enough information, usually. Also thinking about the team composition in tandem with the information you have lets you have a reasonable guess on the items you don't know for sure, so you can be careful for those.

>>31247998
Yes, you need to make significant progress into the battle before you can get enough information to deduce items absolutely, but it isn't like Knock Off instantly reveals all the opponent's items the moment you send Muk out. Either way, you gradually gain information throughout the course of a battle and I don't think the scouting is so important that I would go out of my way to Knock Off if I can deal more damage with another attack, unless you've resigned the first game to be a loss and are banking on winning the other two.

I've been playing around with AV Bewear on showdown, I'm just under 1500 so it probably isn't all that great in reality but I was having >fun using it and would like to share the set seeing as it's the only fighting type I've used thats been half decent

Bewear @ Assault Vest
Ability: Fluffy
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Atk / 20 Def / 36 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Superpower
- Stomping Tantrum
- Ice Punch

>you always survive marowak flare blitz, stomping tantrum will cut it to half >90% of the time
>18% chance to be 2hko'd by koko life orb dazzling gleam
>survive psychic from lele if her terrain is not up
>always KO garchomp with ice punch
>does ~75% to eviolite porygon2
>araquanid liquidation is a 4hko
>superpower does 50% to 252 HP/4 Def celesteela

This thing doesn't one shot much but it has great staying power, it'll pick up some KOs if you've got faster stuff weakening things.

>>31249493
>superpower does 50% to 252 HP/4 Def celesteela
That is honestly incredibly unimpressive and not worth mentioning.

In real world terms since Celesteela always runs Leftovers, possible Leech Seed with Bewear's massive HP and the atk drop you're looking at a real damage of 12-15% less than whatever your calcs are.

I do like the pedobear but it's one of these things which cries out for a better STAB attack for it's fighting side otherwise it just doesn't get any noteworthy KO's.

>>31249493
I've been having fun with it and side swag Fini, using misty seed instead of AV because I found that I wanted protect instead of stomping tantrump since Fini already deals with Marowak. Without the boost it's not getting many KOs in neutral targets but it does pretty good damage still, and with the boost it just wrecks stuff, and makes it more affordable to use Superpower.
Kinda memey, but I do have fun with it, and managed to make a pretty decent team. I'll take it to a PC tomorrow and see how I do, since I'm not really worried about the CP anymore, I might as well just go and have fun with my friends.

>>31247349
>>31247740
What the fuck, Lele and Chomp are like among toppest top treats anyone should care about when making a team.

>>31250083
That doesn't mean everyone feels comfortable using them. I understand the Garchomp one too since all it does for me is either dying or doing 33% damage on things. Because of those bad and underwhelming experiences, I generally avoid using one in my teams, and I don't regret that decision one bit since I can at least have a more useful team member.

Any guide on which of the 25% HP berries to use for each nature? Serebii and Bulbapedia are a mess in those regards.

>>31250489
just put the name in showdown and it tells you how it works

>>31250489
Essentially, which stat is decreased by a nature causes a Pokémon to "hate" a certain flavour.
-Attack: Spicy
-Def: Sour
-SpA: Dry
-SpD: Bitter
-Spe: Sweet

And each berry confuses Pokémon that dislike one flavour
Figy: Spicy
Iapapa: Sour
Wiki: Dry
Aguav: Bitter
Mago: Sweet

So an Adamant Muk dislikes Dry food (Adamant reduces SpA). This means if it eats a Wiki berry, it will be confused, but any of Figy, Iapapa, Aguav and Mago will be fine.

A Brave Muk dislikes Sweet food (Brave reduces Speed). This means if it eats a Mago berry, it will be confused, but any of Figy, Iapapa, Aguav and Wiki will be fine.

Useful pages:
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Nature#Stat-focused_table
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Berry

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*intimidates u*
*keeps snarling u*
*burns u*

heh..... nice damage nerd

>>31250736
fuck off

>>31250736
This year is an incredibly slow and bulky metagame. Things like that are why Toxic is good this year.

>>31250489
No need for a guide the berries just simply confuse when you have a specific stat negative nature.

Meaning for every set you can just use Figy Berry for all physical sets and Wiki berry for all special offensive sets.

>>31250748

>>31250736
I have to admit, I hate it when that happens to me, but it's extremely satisfying to pull it off against other people.

I feel like MMing for a shiny proygon2 because it's top VGC right now and cute as fuck. What is the best nature?

>>31232868
in the 1500's people don't even know you can fake out flying pokemon in terrain. I got people calling me a cheater.

>>31251664
I was playing someone on PS who attempted to toxic me under misty terrain but missed. I reminded him it was up through the chat, and the motherfucker tried it TWO MORE TIMES AFTER the fact. I was also around 1500 on ladder

>>31251711
>predicting correctly
sounds like you didn't

>>31252425
Z-moves are just more balanced versions of gems in gen5, what the hell are you talking about

I really have no idea what I want to build this gen. There's so many options and no matter what I build, I always feel like there's someone out there that's building the same team but better.

I'm also not good at building a team

>control and outplay the matchup
>get swept at the end by m-Metagross
Holy hell I don't remember him being so strong.

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>>31253115
>megas
>vgc

Is this the new epik meme?

>>31253100
excpet that z-moves
>can only be used once per battle, so not everything can nuke you like in 2012/13
>remove any positive effect from the origial move as well
>don't give an 80% boost what the hell are you talking about
>don't allow acrobatics talonflame to become a thing
they aren't as bad as gems, let alone fucking megas

>>31253312
the only thing I'd remove from the Z moves are the dance and that shit. Just make it like mega evolution and only play the relevant animation, like NPCs do.

Is Cloud Nine Golduck viable given it would shit on Tapus?

>>31253586
Terrains != Weather
Also, even without terrains, Golduck still loses to all 4 Tapus

>>31253635
What if I switch in, remove the terrain, and then switch out to use again later?

>>31253651
Cloud Nine doesn't affect the terrains

>>31247131
Seems useful, thanks for the link

>>31253635
>!=

not sure why but I cringe everytime I see people using that

>>31253651
>>31253678
Also, cloud nine only affects weather when the pokemon is on the field.

What would a good set for Granbull be?

I really want to make Gengar work. Anyone have any ideas on who I should partner him up with to make a decent starting core? Right now I'm thinking Tapu Lele.

>>31253738
not using it

>>31253678
Oh. Is there anything that does? Like a Cloud Ten or something?

>>31253827
I don't see why not to use it. It's a slow intimidater with a pretty good offensive move pool as well as a good atk stat. Wouldn't it synergize well with a trick room team?

>>31253738
- Heal Bell
- Power-up Punch
- Outrage
- Roar

>>31253722
I'm not saying gems are broken. I just think z-moves aren't really that bad, especially coming fron 3 years of megas.

What's the viability of this? I saw it on another thread

Snorlax @ Snorlium-Z
- Self-Destruct
- Curse
- Sleep Talk
- Rest

>>31253950
>- Sleep Talk
>-Self-Destruct
Jeus christ

>>31253950
It's certainly not very dependent on skill but I'd love to see it in action purely for lols

>>31253722
>can only be used once per battle, so not everything can nuke you like in 2012/13
>50% boost is a nuke
For high power moves, gems and Z-moves do the same damage, so using 3 gems could be equivalent damage-wise to 3 Z-moves. So yeah, the potential to nuke several things existed

>>31253868
It's extremely underwhelming. You're better off using another intimidator.

>>31253950
why

>>31254034
One that synergizes well with trick room? If Incineroar HA was available I'd much rather use that.

Who would've thought 25% berry on Primarina would be so clutch?

>>31255540
I fucking hate these damn berries so much. Now it's not just Muk now I keep seeing random shit with those fucking stupid ass berries everywhere on shit that shouldn't even be using it in first place.

Haha I managed to survive in 1 hp it would be a shame if I recovered half my hp and managed to resist another hit :^)

>>31257030
it's a decent alternative if your Sitrus is already taken, but it's riskier

>>31211389
The Smogon $1400 tour's streamed with commentary rn, smogonu on Twitch

>>31257030
Are you >>31241145 ?

>>31257469
Dear god that is low quality.

Any news on Parting Shot getting fixed?

>>31258211
They uploaded an update to the Nintendo servers time ago, but it's still on a limbo for now.

>lose to parahax from a fucking Xurkitree
>lose to poison touch having 100% success on knock off against me and a crit to boot
>then lose speed ties

Cool game.

>>31259805
I lost a game yesterday solely because of one Zing Zap flinch, it's the game we play. If you play well enough, you'll win a majority of games despite RNG.

>>31260483
I get status hacked or miss almost every game, it's really the only way I lose unless I'm up against someone who counters me hard.

>>31260551
keep telling yourself that

>>31260588
How am I supposed to win when I get frozen by P2's Ice Beam at a crucial moment or get crit when it really matters, or when I get fully paralyzed 3 times in a row?

It's not hard to win in battle spot with a decent team consistently, you know your team is fine when it takes hax to put you at a disadvantage.

>>31260627
That's not his point. You're literally saying you're perfect and only lose because of hax and absolutely no other reason on those cases. There are always better positions you could be in or better plays that prevent these type of scenarios, but if you keep telling yourself that it was inevitable without even looking into the situation, then you're never going to improve as a player.

>>31260734
The best way to judge a team's overall strength is to win a lot and remember your losses, and when most of your losses are due to bullshit that means you've improved.

Many times making a "correct" play can still fuck you over.

>>31260752
Correct play tries to minimize bullshit.

>>31259805
I lost a very frustrating game. I had a low-hp ninetales, a muk, and a water mon in the back, vs just a single Tapu Koko. Used discharge, killed my ninetales, paralyzed my muk, who was then paralyzed. He just had to spam discharge after that to win.

That literally lost me the game. I think that had like a 7.5% chance of happening? Very frustrating, because I outplayed them up to that point.

>>31260752
See, that's the thing, you cannot see that there are other ways to approach that turn so it doesn't end up being a "do this and only this while still being at risk" type of situation. Also, it's guaranteed that you've also won because of "bullshit" and forgot about it because of the win, so don't complain.

>>31260770
To add to this, though, that's the nature of the game you play. You CAN minimize the chance of bullshit happening to you, and in a tournament, the chance of bullshit causing you to lose a round is pretty small, considering it's a best two out of three. There are always better plays that you can make, and if you find yourself losing often to RNG, then that means that your team is dependent on good luck, which is still a fault of your team.

>>31253950
verlis tier

>Dude just minimize the RNG lmao if you had played better you would have won in a way without RNG fucking you over xDDD
>Dude lmao it's your fault for putting yourself on a position where the only way you could have lost were by getting haxxed by a 0.01% chance thing of happening.
Fuck you.

The RNG can and will fuck you over no matter how "good" you played to minimize it. There are times where it is inevitable no matter what you do. Bullshit will still happen no matter what or how hard you try to prevent it.

>>31261070
But you can still reduce the chance of RNG fucking you over. Do you seriously not understand this?

>>31261793
And now matter how much you try to reduce the chance of RNG fucking you over the RNG can still fuck you over. Do you seriously not understand this?

>>31261914
(You)

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Oh shit. Regional time. Hhnngg

>>31261793
The problem is, a lot of reducing the chance of RNG fucking you over means playing in a way which, on average, would be sub-optimal. Unless you vastly outclass your opponent, you usually can't afford a few extra moves to make sure your opponent doesn't get a chance to crit or freeze or whatever.
Basically the only safe way to reducing risk overall is to use speed control effectively enough that you know you'll be outspeeding your opponent as much as possible, which means you don't have to risk what hax your opponents will get interfering with your moves, but they can still get crits unless they're utter shit.

>>31212017
You can, the evolutions no

Why isn't kommo-o being used like at all? Clanging scales hits all foes and it's 110 bp. I get the tapus, but still. WIth specs that's pretty damn powerful for a spread attack.

>>31262289
where?

>>31263981
Netherlands.

>>31263997
This. Stream here:

TwitchDOTtv/pokemonop_benelux

>>31264250
>"Great, another comfy VGC streaming on a weekend!"
>streaming is just a random 3ds screen

>>31264348
That's how Athens is going to be.
Fortunately some people are organizing commentary.

>>31263970
You just said it, when right now the main thing fucking over this meta is everything being ass slow with the Tapu's being strong AND fast in this whole meta Kommo-O is just a free kill. Virtually every non-Tapu Fairy is unviable right now because everyone and their mother wants to remove those things and anything less is easy. They don't even need to try kill the thing, just a halfassed Dazzling Gleam will put it out of its misery.

Then look at Kommo-o itself, only speed ties Fini at best, 100 base s.atk and Focus Blast for its special options.

Right now this meta is basically shaped by 4 Pokemon only in ways some might not even realize, Celesteela, Kartana, Tapu Lele and Tapu Koko. You have to check those 4 otherwise you'll lose almost every game and it's only after you've done so you can start to consider anything else.

>>31264449
it's not just the lack of commentary, in fact commentaries are usually pretty useless

I mean, the things that make a stream comfy are the graphics, the various cameras, the pokémon/team data, player names, etc...

Stream ded.

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>>31263997
>>31264250
> tfw i would have won a match if my Metagross wasn't paralyzed 4x (FOUR TIMES) in a row


I'M BEYOND MAD

>>31264250
quality stream

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>>31263970
>>31264611
Strangely enough, Kommo-o works very well on Hail teams for some reason.

>>31264725
You should've played better to minize that hax :^)

Speaking more seriously, are you playing there anon? How's your record? What did you bring?

>>31264835
What changes will this bring to VGC 2017?

>>31264890
Pretty much nothing important.

Fake Out Salazzle I guess?

>>31264890
Heal pulse clefairy, fake out salazzle.

will liquid voice primarina be any good?

>>31264946
Does it give anything useful besides a water type Hyper Voice? If not, I doubt it

>>31265000
fuck off

>>31265009
so ebic and randumb xd

>>31265029
triggered?

>>31265009
>>31265029
>>31265043
not an argument :^)

>>31265072
good argument

>>31264864
>Strangely enough, Kommo-o works very well on Hail teams for some reason.
Actually having used it with Hail, reasoning is it is near mandatory for Hail teams to have a Fighting nuke that isn't affected by Intimidate or Burn to annihilate Steel types or at least cripple them.

Your only options are Lucario and Kommo-O and the dragon is a lot fatter with a strong spread move in exchange for 5 less speed and being much tankier. Higher speed is neglectable when you're still slower than Lele, higher s.atk is neglectable when all the power mostly comes from Focus Blast's BP.

The other advantage is Kommo-O can go to toe with fire types as well being part Dragon the other thing Hail dislikes and it is faster than Metagross so it can leave a mark before going down. Really I barely even used Clanging Scales in all my wins it's mostly there as a placeholder and a when I have nothing better to do option.

It really isn't a very good option but there is literally nothing else.

>>31264864
> You should've played better to minize that hax :^)

> Speaking more seriously, are you playing there anon? How's your record? What did you bring?

I used Cybertron's rain team. I used Weakness Policy on Metagross instead of Choice Band. Helped me out more than I thought. I went 4-2. Aside from my loss i mentioned before they were deserved losses due to missplays. It was fun though. First tournament, saw some interestimg things. Wishiwashi in Trick Room, Chesto Resto Mudadale.

Gonna hit the lab tonight when I get home. Probably gonna run a Trick Room team next.

>>31265123
How about Pheromosa? I've seen her on many Hail teams. Can even spam Blizzard.

>>31265123
>>31265152
Lucario and Phero like sash, which doesn't work well with hail.

>>31265000
Eh, maybe you could run it with Oranguru/Instruct. Specs (water)Hyoer Voice mite b cool

>>31265159
It's far from obligatory on Pheromosa.

>>31265194
too specific, my niggih

>>31264890
Just listed interesting stuff I can see.

>Salazzle - Fake Out
>Clefairy - Heal Pulse
>Tentacruel - Mirror Coat/Haze/Muddy Water/Knock Off/Acupressure
>Bewear - Wide Guard
>Turtonator - Wide Guard
>Vikavolt - Electroweb
>Toucannon - Boomburst
>Chansey/Blissey - Seismic Toss
>Snorlax - Whirlwind/Self Destruct
>Misdreavus - Skill Swap
>Alakazam - Skill Swap
>Misdreavus - Skill Swap
>A-Muk - Assurance
>Hypno - Assist/Ice Punch/Skill Swap
>Hariyama - Helping Hand
>Gengar - Haze
>Mandibuzz - Knock Off/Fake Tears
>Ribombee - Skill Swap
>Liligant - Healing Wish
>Machamp - Ice Punch
>Gigalith - Curse
>Araquanid - Power Split
>Poliwrath - Endeavor
>Magmortar - Power Swap
>Tsareena - Feint/Acupressure
>Comfey - After You
>Goodra - Acid Armour/Curse/Counter
>Bastiodon - Wide Guard
>Electivire - Ice Punch
>Exeggutor- Skill Swap/Power Swap
>Mukrow - Perish Song
>Dragonite - Extremespeed

Main takeaway is we get access to Skill Swap, one new Fake Out user a few more Wide Guarders.

>>31265152
You can try it but Kommo-O tends to give more room for error with it's defenses and can follow up if it comes short which it usually does. Even STAB Z-Focus Blast isn't enough to take out some targets it wants to, it usually needs to double up or do it over 2 turns.

Pheromosa wouldn't be able to run Sash and would be limited to one Z Focus Blast and dying, it also has a poor matchup with bulky Fires.

I wouldn't completely rule it out as some people do seem to do better with glass cannons but as I said we're grasping at straws for decent special fighters.

>>31265286
tl;dr

anything useful?

>>31265559
>Salazzle - Fake Out
>Dragonite - Extremespeed
>Clefairy - Heal Pulse
>Bewear - Wide Guard
>Hariyama - Helping Hand
>Mandibuzz - Knock Off

>>31265593
what's the most useful thing in that list?

>>31265755
Salazzle

>>31265755
Salazzle probably.

This meta is desperate for fire types not named Arcanine.

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>>31265796

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1/4

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>>31266002
2/4

>>31266002
These are outdated as fuck now

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>>31266020
3/4

>>31265286
>electroweb vikavolt
>helping hand hariyama
interdasting...

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>>31266030
4/4

>>31265805
>if I use arcanine, I lose fake out pressure and psychic immunity
>if I use incineroar, I have no clear answer to kartana unless I'm under tailwind

can't they just release it already goddammit, in XY we had protean since day 1.

>>31266051
>turn 1: fake out to kartana and set a trick room

there you go, a fast incineroar

Scrub posting alert: just curious, but why is Protect so widely used in this format compared to other formats? I mean, I know it's a good move, but from streams and replays I've seen, it looks like almost every mon runs it.

>>31266165
how old are you? legit question

>>31266165
It's a positioning tool like switching is

>>31266217
Like, to bait out moves and switches to see what they have in store while protecting them from said moves?

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Migrate whenever:

>>31266340
>>31266340
>>31266340
>>31266340

>>31266227
Kind of

Example scenario, one of your Pokemon gets outsped and KO'd by one of the opposing Pokemon. Instead of switching in to damage being your only option, you can protect it while your other Pokemon tries to eliminate the threat. Another common move is protecting one of your Pokemon and switching the other if those 2 out together give you a better position