>Gen 1: We need a Fire starter that is cool so we can sell

That typhlosion isn't the mouse pokemon
And if you say "but cyndaquil is" then charmander is the lizard pokemon and litten is the cat pokemon

>>31201904
So you're one of the autists... ok

I'm still upset about Incineroar.

>implying cyndaquil and typhlosion aren't part of the same family
>implying charmander and charizard aren't part of the same family
No dotty dots for (You)

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>>31201904
about typhlosion not being a mouse
in japanese, "nezumi"is used to describe almost anything that is rodent like

togenezummi=porcupine
hatsukanezumi=mouse
nezumi=rat

etc...
That's why so many pokemon are the "mouse" pokemon.
So if anyone ever brings it up then refer to this
K.

>>31201705
Next gen when we get a magma Fire/Ground horse even packing High Horsepower they'll still complain the pattern is reaching.

>>31201904
Do you really think the next fire starter won't fit into the theme?

>>31202688
Not that anon but I think it wont fit the theme and zodiautists will do some ebon mental gymnastics to make it seem like it is.

>>31201705
>typhlosion
>mouse

heres your (you)

>>31202688
I think it will be shoe horned regardless.

>>31201988
So no counterargument then... ok.

Watch as our next fire starter is a rabbit with huge power.

>>31201705
you had me up until gen 6
>we really want people to get the theme so let's do something outside of the theme

>>31202759
>>31202188

>>31201705
What makes it even more obvious is that each game's release date corresponds with the calendar year for each zodiac animal

>>31202719
It's been 7 gens man, how many need to happen before accepting it? Like we can argue over typhlosion, but I think the most headway you'll get is that it's a weak candidate for the rat spot.

At what point do you accept it? Like do you really think it's a good argument to say it's not a clear theme if there's 2 out of the 12 starters are weak choices?

What happens when the gen 8 starter is a rabbit, ox, snake, horse or sheep?

>>31202773
That was a really stupid line of thought. A fox is close enough to dogs.

>>31202820
No it doesnt?

>>31202820
Is that bait? Not a single one matches.

>>31202826
Once the circle is completedand it isn't full of mental gymnastics. Then I'll believe the shitty meme.

>>31202992
Does that include allowing Typhlosion and Delphox if the rest are undeniable?

>>31202843
That's like saying Machamp or Mr. Mime or Gardevoir are all basically gorillas since they're based on humans which share the same family

>>31202737
Unless it's an animal completely unrelated to the zodiac?

>>31203044
not really

>>31203088
Pretty much

>>31202867
>>31202876
check again retards

>>31203043
Yes.

>>31203044
>canines are as diverse as humans
nah not really autismo

>>31203070
Name one animal that can't be connected to one of the vague animals of the zodiac

>>31202603
You keep your filthy opinions away from based Nazrin goddess.

I cant wait until we get a fire type duck or something and some idiot shoehorns it into something retarded.

Or another fire dragon.

>>31203118
deal

>>31201705
What zodiac animal do you people think gen 8 will cover with the fire starter? I'm betting on Sheep

Also who thinks the franchise will last exactly 12 generations?
more gens but abandoning the zodiac tradition? less gens than 12 and the zodiac will end unfinished?
they'll justify with already existing fire pokemon even if they're not starters (rapidash will be considered the horse, they'll make new fire snake and rabbit, etc.)?

>>31203174
Bear,Bats,bugs,Kangaroos, ones that have already been done

>>31203174
Any bug
A bird
An elephant
A bear
A turtle

Do I win?


Also, any repeat would break the cycle

>>31203263
Maybe they'll just stop making grass/fire/water starters after 12 generations

>>31203263
How would they continue Grass starters for that many gens? They're already pretty modern with the owls

>>31203333
check'd

>>31203392
They could do something unexpected by changing the starter types for innovation

Or they could keep painting different animals green and calling them grass types.

>>31203392
Modern?

>>31203501
Probably not the right word for it. But the grass starters follow a pretty undeniable theme of prehistoric animals that jump forward in time each generation. The latest being prehistoric owls that are extinct

This zodiac meme is autistic. Besides, foxes aren't dogs.

>>31203646
Autism isn't just a meme insult to throw around, it's a serious condition and you have it.

>>31203622
There's no prehistoric pattern with the grass types, it's just a pattern people are forcing because humans are good at finding patterns in nothing.

>>31203622
Fun fact: 99% of all animal species that have ever existed have gone extinct.

In regards to OP: you basically outlined the problems people have with the zodiac thing. It was all a bunch of coincidences until gen IV or V. Then they noticed a theme and decided to run with it. I personally hope they keep going with it, because I really want a fire type snake.

>gen 8 fire starter is an earthwork
>people will claim it's a snake

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Fire snake starter when?

>>31204339
Right, and the same applies to the zodiac thing.

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>>31201705
>Ox
Fire / Fighting Minotaur when?

I'm still waiting for the furfagbait fire bunny. Any day now

>>31201705
So, buy that logic, the next starter should be another Charmander?

>>31203263
I'd go for the Moon Rabbit next, since there's plenty of folklore to play off its design. Potentially a Fire / Fairy type to play off its celestial origins.

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>tfw we'll never have a horse fire starter because of Ponyta

>>31204339
Except not? Because each grass starter is based on an animal that existed in a very clear timeline.

>>31205076
By what logic?

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>>31205086
Did someone say Fire/Fairy moon rabbit?

>>31205176
Pegasus and Unicorn is also a choice you know.

>>31205341
Venusaur is a vague monster, not based on particularly anything. It has some resemblance to Triassic synapsids but that's a huge category, it doesn't have a particular likeness to any one classification in name or design. It's just Venusaur. Sauropods were around since the Triassic up to KT. Sceptile, again, not based on any particular species except that they are literal leaf-tailed geckos and movie-style dromeosaurs. If you're hell-bent on seeing Torterra as a particular extinct animal, an ankylosaurid isn't even the best guess because it lacks the most famous feature, the club tail, and meiolanids went extinct as recently as 2000 years ago. Serperior? It's a squamate with vestigial limbs. Glass snakes and boas (albeit much more vestigial than even Serperior) with those traits are still alive today.

Owls have been around for 60 million years, and recognizably modern birds since the Cretaceous. What we think of modern vs. prehistoric isn't well-defined. Personally, I don't buy that the Decidueye family is based on one particular species of owl, extinct or not. The line already goes from tytonid to strigid when it loses the distinctive facial disc of barn owls.

Humans are good at finding patterns and there's no shortage of extinct animals out there that, with enough squinting, you could fit all of the starters to.

>>31205834
The owl is based of off the owl species that went extinct in hawaii, which helps string the ghost typing together.

>>31201705
Autists are still ass blasted over incineroar? christ get over it already, these are the starterst of the generation. Just use something else if you don't want to use them.

>>31205377
Fire pegasus starter omg fucking please.

>We could literally get a ram, an ox, a horse, a rabbit, and a snake as the next five fire starters and the no fun allowed autists will still say there is no correlation because foxes aren't dogs

>>31202688
The theme is so broad and has already been manipulated so much that, yes, the next starter will fit into it.

Not because it's intentional on GF's part but because people want there to be a theme.

>>31205176
>tfw we'll never have a fox Fire starter because of Vulpix
Just make it bipedal.

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>>31205834
Why do you autists think a pattern = strict rules? Game Freak don't suffer from aspergers like you do, so they can run by vague guidelines instead of needing to stick to a fixed ruleset (which is the definition of aspergers).

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>>31206041
A bipedal horse that would inevitably leads to the edit of pic related?

Yes, I know we already have a Mudsdale one.

>>31205950
But it's actually really easy to break the theme. Fox to dog, and Typhlosion to mouse is not really a stretch. Like this thread has already listed several things that would solidly break the cycle.

>>31205912
>We could literally get a goddamn tardigrade as the next fire starter and the zodiac autists will still claim there's a correlation because it sorta looks like an ox

>>31203273
To be fair if they did introduce a kangaroo starter it's first stage would probably resemble a rabbit

>>31201705
Foxes aren't dogs, retard.

>>31205877
I already said that I don't buy that the family is based on one particular species of owls. There's over half a dozen extinct animal lines in Pokemon already, and none of them are ghost. I swear it's Ghost type just because of Spirit Shackle, Ghosts are more closely associated with shadows than Dark types and already have Mean Look as a trapping move. Heaven knows the Ghost typing isn't apparent in its design or dex entries. People keep posting the same art of Grallistrix species that does happen to resemble Decidueye even though all that's known of them are their skeletons, and proportionally, it doesn't even resemble Grallistrix that much. It was a small bird with short wings compared to other owls. Decidueye is just a non-specific owl.

>>31206230
hurr durr

>>31206230
They're close enough autism man

>>31206262
Not for nips they aren't.

>>31205377
Horses and pegasus aren't even in the same family...

>>31206256
But there's a species of owl that specifically went extinct in Hawaii, that preferred to stay on the ground.... I don't understand how that wouldn't be the direct influence.

>>31206280
They are for fictional cartoon characters.

>>31206329
Not for nips they aren't.

>>31206280
>>31206335
Why are you saying this like it has any meaning whatsoever?

>>31203174
>Venusaur
>Torterra
>Chesnaught
>Decidueye
>Blastoise
>Feraligatr
>Swampert
>Empoleon
>Samurott
>Greninja
>Primarina

Sceptile and Meganium are fair enough for dragons, but not when they both exist

>>31206350
Because foxes aren't dogs.

>>31206335
So it's just coincidental that all of them but one fits? Maybe you're just wrong, and don't understand "nips" as much as you think you do.

>>31206390
Why can't it be coincidental?
>all of them but one
lmao

>>31206413
Occam's razor man. It just makes way more sense that there's a pattern then they just happened to do it for decades.

>>31206436
Makes about as much sense as the "patterns" for the other starters.

>>31206436
Nah, it makes way more sense that they just picked some cool looking animals instead of adhering to some stupid nonexistent pattern

>>31206446
>doesn't believe there's a cycle for the other starters

idk man if you just want to not believe in anything you can do that.

>>31206468
No, it doesn't make more sense that they randomly fit the pattern so well versus them paying attention to it. For over 20 years.

>>31206510
To be fair there is no observed pattern for water starters.

And no, "amphibians" isn't a pattern, it's a limitation.

>>31206534
>they randomly fit the pattern so well
l m a o

>>31206558
>being this autistic
No man, thats the same thing.

>>31206534
>randomly fit the pattern so well
But there isn't a pattern?

>>31206564
Delphox aside, they just fit the pattern magically for 5 gens? Sounds like some dumb ass logic.

>>31206574
not anon but

All the water starters are animals that can go on land and water because having a fully aquatic starter Pokemon just doesn't work out. Why would the first Pokemon you get and travel with be fully restricted to water? It just doesn't fit.

>>31206597
but there is?

>>31206574
Fully aquatic shit is harder to merchandise and force into the anime.

I've posted this in other Zodiac threads, but I'll post it again here:

The Chinese Zodiac has been used for timekeeping more than anything, and in places where the locals have never heard of the animal being used, or if there are special circumstances behind it, substitutes have been used.

Sheep and Goat are interchangeable, and was swapped for the Kirin in Japan in the past as they had no such animal. Rabbit is swapped for Cat in Vietnam, Pheasant for Rooster and yes, in places where Foxes are revered, Fox for Dog.

>>31206613
>>31206604
That doesn't disclude it from being a pattern.

>>31206604
I like to think Fire starters are built in mythology (the zodiac) grass starters are built on history, (dinosaurs and generally animals that have been around for a long time) and water starters are as you said, but also animals that are plainly actually living in modern times.

I can't say if it's intentional, but to me, there's an effect like, even within the 3 starters, there's a "huge variety" of what pokemon can be.

>>31206628
the thing is

people only care about the Chinese one here

>>31206311
Both of them are horses as far as most people are concerned. Close enough to work I say.

>>31206558
You say that as if they can't just make a fish flying out of water or something.

Fire type tapir starter when?

>>31206643
It is still the Chinese one though. Villages in China where there aren't any snakes have used lizard imagery.

You know what the worst fucking part of this zodiac nonsense is? When we inevitably get a Fire starter that can't possibly be stretched to fit muh patterns, half the zodiacfags will still try to do exactly that, and the other half will say the pattern was always there but they just decided to stop doing it for no reason.

>>31206682
Not me. Give me a fire starter that actually doesn't fit and I'll say there never was one. The pattern only gets narrower and narrower. There's 5 things left. With each gen it gets more and more likely that it'll get broken if there's no actual pattern.

What will they do after Gen 12? Western Zodiac?

Will you still be posting on /vp/ then?

>>31206761
That Scale fire starter

>>31206612
No?

>>31206781
Yes?

>>31206103
Because I seriously doubt that GameFreak sticks to any sort of guideline of having to design a grass prehistoric grass starter that has to be based on groups that evolved or went extinct within a specific frame of time. That's incredibly limiting. The fire zodiac thing I don't buy either, but at least it's easier to swallow than "grass starters are based on prehistoric creatures and with each new generation it goes further in time." That chart isn't even right with the timeframes (for one, this mixes appearances and extinction dates)
Dicynodonts - Venusaur doesn't even resemble any one synapsid in particular, it's a vague monster with a giant flower stuck to its back
Sauropods - yes, though if we're including all of Sauropodamorpha you can go earlier
Dilophosaurus - Sceptile doesn't resemble any dromeosaur in particular. You could slap Eoraptor of all things there and instantly invalidate the entire chart.
Ankylosaur - if GF wanted players to think Torterra was an ankylosaurid, they'd have put a club on it. You might as well say it's a meiolanid which went extinct 2000 years ago.
Serperior - why does it have to be early snakes? If GameFreak wanted to limit themselves to recognizably prehistoric creatures, snakes wouldn't be my first guess.
Glyptodon - Assuming that Chesnaught was based on glyptodonts, glyptodonts evolved in the Miocene (25-5 mya) and went extinct about 11,000 years ago, not 110,000.

>>31206761
fire crab incoming

>>31203176
>Burnquack, the Mouse Pokemon

Alternatively

>Magmar

>>31202773
well...if they didnt get it the last five times... why not?

>>31206789
Nah