>J-just w-wait until I get Shell Smash! >A-and a v-viable

why does Fairy have to be SE against Fighting again?

let's play a game

what if clanging scales is a fighting-type move, but everything else remains the same

what changes?

>>30999826

brains vs brawn

>>30999780
Shell smash will break it even if it loses all of what little fighting STAB it has. Shell smash is just fucking retarded.

>>30999844
>brains

>>30999826
Twinks can turn even the machoest man homo

>>30999780
His stat spread is actually very suitable for Shell Smash. Compare him to Cloyster if you like.

>>30999844
Psychic already filled that role. Since when are fairies the embodiment of knowledge, magic, and mystic energy? The only reason fairy is SE against fighting is to balance it out.

>>30999879

yeah, kommo-o is like cloyster.
there is a small issue with that, though.
kommo-o is like cloyster without shell smash.

>>30999826
Because violence is immoral

>>30999826
Because fighting had it good for two whole gens and we can't be having that now can we.

>>30999826
Because clearly, magic trumps brute strength every time.

Just ask Goku-- oh wait.

>>30999780
Well, all it needs is the first thing. Knowing the history of Battle Towers, it might mean we're getting a Shell Smash tutor this gen.

Yeah, Sky Uppercut and Focus Blast being your Fighting moves of choice blows, but Dragon/Fighting with 600 BST and Shell Smash is fucking busted. It'd be the strongest pseudo after Megamence, none of the others come even close.

I definitely see it getting at least Drain Punch as good and reliable fighting STAB. Hammerarm would be a perfect fit designwise as well.

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>>30999780
Its stats are fine. Its built to be versatile not just a "rip and tear" sweeper like the others. A better movepool would help allot though.

Is Komo-o the worst pseudolegendary yet?

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>>30999894
soon (tm)

>>31000324
GOODRA
O
O
D
R
A

>>31000324
Until it gets Shell Smash, yes
Design is >opinions

>>31000319

the stat spread is simply whack.
it excels at absolutely nothing.
staying power is only so-so, despite awesome defenses, because of low HP.
attacking power is only so-so, because both attack stats are high, but neither is impressive on its own.
and dont even mention that "speed", please.

garchomp did everything right: save base points at special attack, so it can have high attack, speed AND HP.

>>31000348
It was obviously built for one specific move you fucking retard, until they chickened/jewed out for muh stars in the last moment

and garchomp needs to be nerfed

>>31000348
>garchomp did everything right
Well yeah, it's from the power creep generation, what did you expect?

>>31000324
goodra is so much worse

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>>30999780

>>31000373
Goodra finds use in VGC as a bulky rain counter
Kommo-O has no niche whatsoever

I hope this thing never gets shell smash. It looks fucked. And if it gets shell smash every cucklefuck will run it and I'll have to run a fairy just to deal with it and besides gardevior, sylveon and mimikyu I hate fairy types.

>>31000366
Unfortunately, Fairies were Garchomp's nerf.

>>31000343
>>31000373
Goodra is great as a wall

>>31000400
Fairies were the Hydreigon/Latios nerf

Garchomp manages to slip untouched because it's obviously one of the creator's pet, much like Gengar was before Sugimori left the company and stopped shilling his fat ghostman OC persona.

>>30999867

ebin

>>31000491
Gengar was good in Gen 1 and has only gotten better since

>>31000527

>pokemon used ground move
>gengar fainted

>>31000527
He dropped to UU this gen, and his usage in VGC is middling at most.

>>31000539
>keeping your frail sweeper in against an Earthquake
There's your mistake, anon.

>>31000566
Gengar is still OU even with the ability nerf, and Mega-Gar is Uber with a significant faction that thinks it's too good even for that Tier
>VGC
>at all relevant

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>>30999780
it really only needs Drain punch

Scrafty is the only fighting type in the Dragon egg other then kommo-o
so you wanna hope scraggy shares its fighting moves
>but muh jangmo-o
if ghastly can learn the elemental punches
jangmo-o could get other fighting moves as egg moves

>>30999867
your basic twink ass wishes

it's all about that muscle bottom goodness

>>31000575

you said that gengar got better each generation
this generation, it actually got nerfed, by losing a precious immunity and gaining a weakness

>>30999826
because it's funny to see macho mens getting rekt by sissy little fairies

>>31000324
Yes, for both design and viability.

>>30999826
Because muh Heracross

Not even kidding, Japanese considered Heracross broken for a long time and some are still butthurt about it even though he became perfectly managable by gen 4

This is also why Fairy is resistant to Bug for seemingly no reason

>>30999894
gg

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>>30999826
>>30999867

>>30999958
the quads have spoken

>>31001253
>9958
>quads

>>31000324
Yes ,because incomplete fighting line.

Kommo looks like one move/ability change away from being OU

>>31001518

yeah, if that move is shell smash and the ability wonder guard

4x weak to fairy is devastating tho. I run my Kommo-o as special just cuz sky uppercut is some hot garbage

>>30999880
They are not an embodiment of knowledge but they are definitely an embodiment of magic

>>31000348
It has a similar spread to Dragonite. It can work once it gets better fighting STAB and possibly shell smash

>>31000386
It only did so this year because Megas were banned and better options were removed. And Kommo-o is at least on par with Hydreigon.

>>31000527
Until gen 7 you mean

>>31001530
It's abilities are fine. It just needs drain punch and shell smash

>>30999837
Specs Kommo-o becomes viable

>>31000371
>Power Creep Generation
That isn't Gen 5, anon.

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>>31000978
> design
When Goodra exists? Goodra is one of biggest examples of a neat concept with failed execution. Kommo-O actually looks inspired with the "tribal chief" theme it has going on with it's decorative-looking scales and a snout that resembles a hatchet. The design is decent at best.

>>31002095
It's already viable
kinda sorta

>>31002131
>The design is decent at best.
but failed execution also.

>>30999826
Because Fey > Humanity has been a thing since forever. It's also why Steel > Fey

>>31002169
Can you elaborate why?

>>31001038
...cuck ring?

>>31002193
overdesigned steel scales

I like Kommo-o and have had some success with him but I REALLY wish he wasn't such a manlet

>>31002206
>overdesigned

It's like you don't know what that word means

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>>31002206
What if some pokemon are supposed to look busy given their cultural inspiration? What a poor reasoning.

>>31002225
>manlet
Kys

>>31002267
found the underage

Honestly, its his shallow movepool that kill him at the moment, especially on the FIGHTING side. If he had access to Close Combat/Superpower/Drain Punch on the physical side and Aura Sphere/Vacuum Wave on the Special Side, he'd be worthwhile. Fuck, I just want something that can use Vacuum Wave well apart from Lucario.

>>30999867
Yaaas

>>31001454
>incomplete fighting line
????

Fighting -> Combativeness
Dark -> Violence
Dragon -> Rage

Fairies are playful and have a calming effect, that makes them strong against type that revolve around aggressiveness.

>>31002410
Meant to respond this guy >>30999826

>>31002123
Gen 5 is the "let's try rebalancing old mons and give them cool abilities" generation.

They also corrected some of gen 1 mistakes with their homages by making them have a role instead of being jack of all trades. Look at stuff like Reuninclus and Gigalith, they are min maxed to be good at one role instead of being mediocre on everything but two stats.

Outside of weather wars gen5 actually did a lot of good for balancing.

>>31001817
Nah, Barney has mammoth Attack

Commoncow has easy-to-pale-in-comparison-to Attack

Also, Multiscale is a much better ability to have since you'd be hard-pressed to find Bullet/Sound based Psychic, Flying, Ice, Dragon, and Fairy-type moves

>>31001001
I refuse to believe this. Youre just pulling it out of your ass arent you

>>31000590
>Official format
>Less relevant than illegal fangame

>>30999999

>>30999826

Have you ever acted like the biggest flaming faggot in front of a guy who wanted to smash your face in? Have you ever told said person you want them to inject your anus with their meat stick? Notice how they usually back off because you're a fucking weirdo masochist faggot?

That's why fairy is SE against fighting.

>>31002560
They also believe Cresselia is completly broken and S tier, which is completly bonkers considering stuff like Bisharp and Tyra can trap and KO her.

>>31002758
Basically, Japs are retarded, which isn't unexpected going by how they fare in VGC

>>31002289
Special Infernape?

>>31000319
>Its built to be versatile not just a "rip and tear" sweeper like the others

Which is exactly it's problem. Like Silvally, there's a lot of pokes that can do a similar and better job on whatever set it attemps to do (excluding belly drum)

>Shell Smash
>Close Combat/Aura Sphere Or just raise Focus Blast's accuracy to 90 ffs
>Drain Punch

Is fixed.

Has anyone tried a mixed set Kommo-o with Assault Vest and Clanging Scales?

>>31002491
Pixelate HV in doubles?

>>31002832
>implying focus miss won't be a permanent meme

I still love moveset descriptions mentioning focus blast as a "you need this for coverage, but just pray you'll never have to use it" type move

>>31004667
>"you need this for coverage, but just pray you'll never have to use it"

This is the official description.

>>31002802
Silvally would be fine if it's movepool wasn't so shallow. The Memory discs should've gotten the damage boosts like the Type Plates do as well. Gamefreak really went their way and made it a low budget Arceus.

>>30999826
Fairy is super effective against the 3 violent types because they calm them down.

>>31000681
muscle bottom and twink top is my fetish

>>31000021
>kommo-o being stronger than garchomp
In your dreams buddy

>>31001787
Then how does a fairy embody knowledge.

>>31000400
If magearna had levitate she could be garchomp's counter, fairy isn't x4 on garchomp, only ice.

Now, if ninetales just had 103 speed then garchomp would be done for.

>>31002560
I'm not. Heracross (or just Swords Dance Heracross, it's not 100% clear) was banned in Japanese ADV. And as >>31002758 pointed out, they considered Cresselia the best Pokemon in the game, but that was back in gen 4, not now. Some Japanese gen 4 tournaments even banned Cresselia full stop.

Found a smogon thread from 2009 discussing the matter:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/foreign-metagames.51056/page-2

>Anyway, we learned back in 2006 that Japan banned Swords Dance Heracross back in the ADV generation. skarm posted a thread called skarm vs. Japan, which was deleted in the cleanup of the forums some months back. (...) He found that he was kicked/they forfeit whenever he would use SD Heracross though. (...) Something about the way that the Japanese play makes SD Heracross inherently powerful, as was the case for our metagame and the way Garchomp was able to perform in it.
>There were alot of odd quirks with them though. They had a strange obsession with Regirock and it's already been pointed out that they make good use of many Pokemon that are normally overlooked.

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>pseudos are no longer OU material

How did everything go wrong?

>>31004894
Garchomp is versatile and is one of the trollish mons in the game, but it has a shitload of checks and counters depending on it's set. SD and LO sets gets fucked by anything faster(this includes scarfers) with Ice coverage? Scarf sets are fucked by any Ground and Dragon resitor as Chomps STABs are very easy to punish? What exactly can handle Kommo-O after a Smash when it's not vulnerable to Intimidate with Clanging Scales/Flamethower and Poison Jab fucking up nearly every fairy after a boost?

>>31005092
>How did everything go wrong?
Situational abilities
Stats that aren't min-maxed

>>31004894
This isnt DPPt grandpa. With under 110 speed Garchomp can't even sweep effectively anymore, people use him to set up rocks and that's pretty much it. Kommo-O on the other hand would be absolutely fucking busted offensively with Shell Smash since he has the bulk to set it up and good offensive stats on both end of the spectrum, as well as a great STAB combo (making wallbreaking and getting past all would-be counters very easy).

Honestly, if Kommo-O gets Shell Smash in Stars, Jangmo-O will be the first Pokemon I'll breed and build a team around in this game. Can't wait desu

>>31004667

because that is how it is

>>31005168
That is if Jangmo-O could get some moves into its movepool.

>>31005049
A-Ninetales has 109 speed

>>31005168

>110 speed is slow

The power creep is real.

Does he REALLY get Shell Smash? Is there a source or something?

Also there are other mons with unreleased egg moves too?

>>31005131
This

People are underestimating Smash Kommo-o. Everyone knows dragon/fire coverage is absolutely godlike and is only walled by Heatran. However people can interchange poison jab with sky uppercut depending on composition. It's gonna be difficult to take care of all Smash Kommo-o sets

>>31005268

All we know is one fag in the Battle Tree has shell smash on his, but Battle Tree is full of cheating dicksuckers so it's not conclusive.

>>31005217
Scarf Pheromosa and Scarf Greninja are everywhere

>>31005049
Good thing Ninetales has 109 base speed then.
>>31005092
They don't know how to make good pseudos anymore, also they insist at making them Dragon types. Old pseudos are actually still doing fine for the most part.

>>31005049
Isn't Air Balloon Magearna is viable set? Free Shift Gear on Chomp, Modest D-Gleam has a chance to OHKO with investment and Fleur Cannon OHKOs with zero investment.

>>31000324
Nah, Goodra and Shitdreigon are even worse.

>>31005433
A lot of chomps have fire blast so it's not exactly free

>>31005464
How is it down in ELO hell?

>>31003148
No tutors.

>>31005052
I'd love a more current analysis of the Jap metagame as of Gen 7, seeing how other cultures play is interesting. Even analysis on the French/other European metagames would be cool.

Japan seems to use Nintendo's standard for their metagame, which is an interesting since Smogon is pretty divisive here on /vp/ for playing an entirely seperate meta. I wonder if they changed the whole "no ubers" thing with the introduction of MegaFug, since it would be the obvious choice for the one legendary slot.

All in all, cool post dude.

>>31005213
>>31005217
Oh shit my bad.

But it's true speed creep is real, I run scarf pheromosa sometimes

>>31005131
Agree. The only way to really smash it is to revenge kill with Weavile or other high speed scarfers, or to use an Unaware Clefable (and even then, Poison Jab will leave a mark).

Everything else will be guesswork at worst or only slow it down at best (Prankster status), and one wrong move will be a KO or heavy damage either way.

Its seriously underestimated, as it can and will clean exceedingly well if Fairies are out of play and it can setup.

>>31005304
Is this the only case tho?

>>31001253
Learn what quads are, kid.

>>31000324

Strength-wise, Goodra is worse.

Dragonite

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>>31002206
>muh over designing

>>31002206
>steel scales
>not dragon/steel

>>31005092
Fairy as a type is way too fucking good on both sides of the spectrum.

>>31005738
>Dragonite
>Worst pseudo

As much as a joke barney is among the fanbase, it can still hold its own..

>>31005788

Mentioning Dragonite was a mistake on my part. I was going to list the psuedos to compare them to Goodra and Kommo-o, but I decided not to but forgot the delete the beginning.

It's probably the 3rd strongest (non-mega) psuedo right now, honestly.

>>31001253
Fucking idiot those aren't quads

>>31005052
>ADV SD Heracross
>Before he even got Close Combat
Japs are trash.

>>31001253
Lurk more

>>30999844

Oh, so fairy is brains now? Interesting.

>>30999780

Shell smash would probably break this thing to be quite honest.

>>31000539

>using Gengar as your ground resist

You deserved to lose if you ever did this anyway. Cursed body doesn't change that much for it.

>>31000400
>>31000491
Keep telling yourself Fairies did anything to nerf Garchomp they did shit all to it.

Garchomp doesn't give a fuck about any of them, it was basically made perfect with an answer to practically every single one.

>>30999971
God ki is basically magic and it's much more powerful than mortal ki.

>>30999826
I assume it's some kind of supernatural > physical deal similar to fighting and psychic.

>>31006188
They did nerf "the button" though.
Though now it got buffed again with the confusion nerf so yeah.

>>31006188
Garchomp is uncounterable period. It's STABs and movepool can handle every single potential threat.
>Garchomp doesn't give a fuck about any of them
If it doesn't run Outrage, maybe. I wouldn't say Fairies had zero impact to Chomp's viability. Dragon STAB is less useful than it previously was.

>>31000390
Then just use one of those, cucklefuck.

>People underestimating Shell Smash

Shell Smash turned Gorebyss and Cloyster into viable sweepers.

For fucks sake, once it's movepool gets buffed it could literally be a viable mixed sweeper with Shell Smash

>less HP than Metagross
So this manlet is so bony he has less meat than a robot?

>>31000539
>not using Bulu + Gengar core

>>31007344
Anon, you DO know that Cloyster has been OU in EVERY gen besides 4, 6 and 7, in which he was UU, right?

Cloyster has always been a good Pokemon.

>>31007476
You do realize that Cloyster was OU pre gen4 because of how viable he was as a wall instead of a sweeper right? That anon said he became a viable sweeper.

turtonator is 6'7

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>>31007344
You certain its getting shell smash?
What, does your uncle work at Nintendo?

>>31005786
next pseudo should be Fairy

>>31008045
Gamefreak's sarcastic laugh and said NEVER.

>>31002206
You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

>>31008214
>>31005757
>>31002235
>grow arms
>add lots of details
>profit

>>31006568
Garchomps had counters even in Gen 4. They just happened to be garbage like Scarf Icicle Spear Cloyster.

These days we have shit like Unaware Clefable, Tapu Bulu, Celesteela, and then some. There's quite a good amount of options to beat Chomp out there. Before you spew shit like "muh fire blast" just because a move hits super effectively, doesn't mean it actually kills shit.

>>30999780
Why are you typing like that you cock-guzzling retard?

>>31008045
>fairy/dragon is the next pseudo

I can dig it.

>>31008445
Kommo-chan's just upset, anon. Please don't bully.

Kommo-o should've gotten Aura Sphere at least.

Shell Smash makes sense if only because they must have left it in the Tree for some reason. Also just imagine the scales breaking as it uses Shell Smash and we're golden. There's also the fact that it only learns a pitiful 3 Egg Moves. Surely that must be an oversight, right? ...Right?

As it is, Kommo-o is just painfully middle of the road and average, and I hate to say it, Silvally has the same issue. A jack of all trades, master of none Pokemon. It can fight on either side of the spectrum sure, but why bother when there are other Pokemon that can do that better? It doesn't even have anything good to let it fight mixed, at least not yet. Kommo-o, as well as Silvally, just need more options. Move Tutors will fix that, hopefully. So we'll just have to bide our time. It's a shame too, since I think both Kommo-o and Silvally are really cool but they just don't quite make the cut just yet.

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>>31008537
>Shell Smash Tutor
>Silvally also ends up getting it

>>30999780
If this gets she'll smash hatching should get dragon dance

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>>31008618
>Dragon Dance Tutor
>Garchomp gets it

If you think about all the other Shell Smash users, Shell Smash Kommo-o would immediately shoot up in viability. It would be ridiculous

>>31000390
Why aren't you running Mimikyu anyways?

>>31008618
>Silvally itself doesn't get it, but Null does
>Alternatively Silvally can just learn every tutor in the new games

>>31000366
Dragon dance? Agility? Autonomise? Work up? Bulk up? Swords dance? Iron defence? Belly drum? Rock polish?
Shell smash is overkill and it doesn't even have a shell. But if they're going to cross that line then why stop there? Why not give Shelgon shell smash, makes more sense than kommo-o. Let give garchomp dragon dance too

>>31008847
Shift gear for metagross too

>>31008847
It destroys its own armor-like scales when using clanging scales (hence defense drop), so breaking scales for shell smash isn't too hard to imagine.

Shelgon's a pupa-like state, much like pupitar and metapod, so it can't really shatter its shell like that.

>>31002123
Hidden abilities in 5 served to make a lot of mon viable.
4 was "let's make these powerful and fuck previous gens"

>>31000681
>implying twinks can't have a nice, sizable ass

>>31000366
How do you Nerf a mon like Garchomp? The Fairies obviously didn't help very much, so what would be better? Not that I'm complaining about it being strong, I love Garchomp

>>31008404
sn-sneasal used ice shard!

>>31008943
give Tapu Koko levitate :^)

>>31008810
>>31008618
>Silvally learns Shell Smash upon evolution
>its mask is the shell that breaks

>>31009906
POTTERY
O
T
T
E
R
T

>>31009099
>lose +50% Electric damage to compensate for using Special Attack or crappy physical moves