Tier the strength of the pokemon protags from strongest to weakest

>>30936716
Brendan > Hilbert/Red > Sun > Nate > Calem > Lucas > Ethan

>>30936857
Did you read the OP?

>>30936953
Did you?

>>30937030
>post the MCs from strongest to weakest
>puts Red above Ethan
No, seriously, did you?

>>30936953
>Brendan
Canonically has Mega Fug and Lati@s, starter capable of Mega Evolution and has fought PokeGodzilla. Likely have Deoxys.

>Hilbert
Chosen Hero who pretty much had zero trouble with anything. Has fought and defeated a Champion with a Legendary, along with other strong Pokemon, along with other Pokemon in his team.

>Red
Took down Team Rocket, arguably the most dangerous team, all on his own as an eleven year old, with zero help from anyone. This is something no protagonist has managed to do since. Starter capable of Mega Evolving. Likely have Mewtwo.

>Sun
See Hilbert, but remove the beating strong Trainer part. Had a lot more tools, with Mega Evolution and Z-moves at his disposal. Also younger, so that makes his feats a bit better.

>Nate
Fought Neo-Team Plasma with the help of the Gym Leaders, Hugh, and ex-Team Plasma, and possibly Kyurem. Became the Champion.

>Calem
Fought Team Flare with his friends, and has a Legendary. Has access to starters that can Mega Evolve. Became the Champion.

>Lucas
Fought Galactic, with the help of the Champion herself and his rival, meat and possibly caught Giratina, and became Champion.

>Ethan
Fought the remnants of Team Rocket with the Champion, and possibly has a Legendary. Became the Champion.

>>30937048
>3 posters
The one relying to you was not me.

>>30936716
Brendan
Lucas
Sun/Elio=Hilbert=Calem
Gold
Nate (PWT is noncanon and you know it, waifufags)
Red

>>30937076
Nate has also beaten multiple champions including Red at the PWT.

>>30937048
>based on feats
>Red: took down an entire criminal organization, removed corrupt Gym Leader, and immediately dethroned the Champion of the region within minutes of his crowning
>Ethan: beat some puny assholes sending a shoutout to their ex-boss on the radio, who ignores them completely, and beat Dragon Dildo Man who was just a shitty E4 member two years ago
>HURR BUT ETHAN BEAT RED ONCE SO HE'S STRONGER
This is also why Anon didn't put Nate at the top. Beating a powerful trainer once doesn't mean jack shit.

>>30937095
PWT, where people cheer a criminal like Giovanni? How canon is that? Plus, Nate can lose each and every single battle, with no consequences. Why are you assuming he won?

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Red and Gold stopped local gangsters

Hilbert/Nate saved the Unova region. Hilbert canonically has Zekrom/Reshiram.

Sun canonically has Nebby fully evolved, and all of the ultra beasts. Saved Lusamine and Guzma from ultra space.

Callum saved the human race from mass genocide and canonically caught Xerneas/Yveltal.

Brendan saved the entire planet twice, once from drying/flooding and once from a miles long meteor. Also canonically caught Mega Rayquaza.

Lucas saved the ENTIRE UNIVERSE from being reset. Literally, Cyrus called upon gods to wipe the slate clean and Lucas stopped him.

Feats: Lucas
Strength: Brendan

>>30937133
Lucas' feats are great, but he also had help from a lot of people, including the Champion and Giratina himself. In the end, it was Giratina who stopped Cyrus.
Besides, it's not comparing feats.

>>30937109
Giovanni was also a gym leader.

What's your point? If they can just let people like Maxie and Archie just hang out on a island resort after they've just commited crimes, I don't see why a former gym leader can't compete in a tournament years after he commited crines.

>>30937104
>Beating a powerful trainer once doesn't mean jack shit.

>>30937165
Read the OP, it's literally based on feats

Brendan was helped by the other team, the champ, and Zinnia

Callum was helped by his 4 friends, Sinnia and Dexio, Diantha and the professor

Gold was helped by Lance

Etc,

It doesnt change the fact that Lucas pulled a Flash Gordon

>>30937191
The difference is, Maxie/Archie ALMOST hurt people, and they didn't mean it.
Giovanni KILLED things, like the Marowak. He kidnapped, robbed and killed and gave zero shits about it.

>>30937220
>feats
Fuck. Missed it. Not my thread, then. My bad.

>>30936716
What was the point of the thread, if you're just comparing feats? Those are things everyone can agree on. Lucas and Brendan has the best feats.

>People unironically place Red and fucking Gold on the same level as Brendan and Lucas

Literally stopped local gangsters. No canon legends. No earth saving. Just gangsters.

Fuck

>>30937076
>Nate
>and possibly Kyurem
Him defeating Kyurem-B/W was canon.

>>30937268
Legendaries don't automatically make someone stronger. It means they have stronger Pokemon. Nate managed to stop stop Kyurem-B/W without any Legendaries.
Legendaries are stronger than normal Pokemon, but nothing suggests they're unbeatable by normal Trainers.

>>30937076
Team Rocket was literally the weakest team with the least amount of power and Red had help from Blue while fighting them.

Local Good Guy: Red, Gold
Regional Hero: Hilbert, Nate, Sun
Protector of Earth: Brendan (twice), Callum
Savior of the Universe: Lucas

All of them had help from champions, friends, rivals, etc. Doesn't change the part they played.

Battle wise Brendan curbstomps the fuck out of everyone with the mega fug he rode to space on.

Feat wise Lucas helped saved the universe from a Pucci style reset.

>>30937200
If you got a lucky shot and bashed the current heavyweight boxing champion in the head and knocked him out, in a fight no one saw, are you better than him? Would he suddenly lose his status?

>>30937359
Name one team that achieved or was in any way more dangerous than Team Rocket.

>>30937372
I think you're making Luas sound better on paper than he truly is. Sure, he saved the universe, but the forces opposing him from achieving that goal weren't a whole lot stronger than the ones the others had to face.

>>30937076
>Team Rocket
>More dangerous than people tryingvto scorch the fucking planet
>BUTLEEBINMAROWAK

They're petty criminals. Any other hero would have bitch smacked them.

>>30937332
>Having MEGA FUG means theres a chance Brendan loses to Red/Gold

KEK yeah Pikachu is tough

>>30937393
Team Galactic was going to reset the universe. Team Plasma gained access to the PC system, could have released every pokemon in a PC on the spot, caught a box legendary, and had their "leader" become champion.

Team Rocket was a group of local thugs.

>>30937406
>Trying to scorch the planet with Legendaries that they don't own
>TRYING TO
>WITH LEGENDARIES
>THAT THEY DON'T OWN
>>>>>>>>Dangerous

>>30937422
Dialga and Palkia were going to. And even that didn't work. What does that say about Team Galactic's strength?
Same goes for Team Plasma. They did great things, but nothing, absolutely nothing suggests they were strong.

>>30937104
>Beating a powerful trainer once doesn't mean jack shit.
Yes it fucking does, retard. When a trainer beats the champ, no one says "lol, this was just the first round you gotta do it two more times". One victory is all anyone needs to be considered stronger.

>>30937398
The point still stands. Does Sun stopping Lusamine and the Ultra Beasts seem like something Brendan couldnt do? Or even Hilbert for that matter? They're all blank slate prodigies, some just do more than others. As it stands, no other hero faced universe ending odds, Lucas did and won. That's not to say some other hero might not have done it better (hell we don't even know what mega universe Lucas does), it just what we have to go on.

Red fought petty criminals. Brendan saved the world twice. Theres levels to it.

>>30937449
>They did great things, but nothing, absolutely nothing suggests they were strong.

What the actual fuck do you consider strong, then? Even if you were right and they weren't strong, Team Rocket did absolutely nothing even comparable to the other teams.

You're pulling bullshit out of your ass, dude.

>>30937451
See
>>30937386

>>30937479
Gaining access to PC =/= Power
Nothing suggests they were hard to beat. Strength in battle is what I'm talking about. For example, Bill made the fucking PC system. Doe that make him stronger than Team Plasma? No, it doesn't. Lysandre had a Legendary powered weapon. Dose that make him strong? No, it doesn't.

Mega universe Red isn't even strong. He's relegated to the fucking Battle Tree as an adult. I can only imagine what MU Brendan or MU Hilbert is up to as a full grown adult with their fucking dragons of legend. Certainly not some fledgling battle facility

>>30937386
Except that is in no way applicable to the battle between Red and Gold.

>>30937451
Have you battled someone? Ever? You don't win, nor do you lose all of your battles.

>That one guy trying to justify Red as the strongest trainer
>Everytime he shows up he gets beaten to progress the story/facility
>Uses a Pikachu

Kek

>>30937524
That wasn't your original argument. You said that Team Rocket was the most dangerous team. Their main goal was to steal pokemon and they failed at it. Plasma could have stolen as many pokemon as they wanted and been the only forces in the world with pokemon on their side. Therefore, they are infinitely more dangerous than Rocket.

You have yet to prove that Rocket is in any way more powerful OR dangerous.

>>30937225
Guzma took over a town and led a groupd of thugs, and he also go off completely scot-free.

Besides, giovanni didn't do shit. Have you ever watched a mafia movie? The boss never gets his hands dirty. Why do you think they haven't arrested all of the mafia families in real life yet?

I hated when every normie sucked Red's dick and called him the strongest, but coming here and seeing everyone just disregard how much Red did, for no reason other than that he's popular, I miss those normies. At least they weren't being this wrong.

>>30937076
I agree on everything but

-Red has fought the weakest legendary pokemon out of all the protagonists, except Ethan. Rocket was definitely not the most dangerous team.

-Sun hasn't really beaten anyone important: Lusamine, Guzma, Kukui and the kahunas aren't really considered all that powerful, especially considering that they had a lot of trouble when fighting the UBs, even with the help of the tapus.

-Ethan beat Red

So with that, I think the final tier list should be:

1- Brendan
2- Hilbert
3- Nate
4- Red
5- Sun
6- Calem
7- Ethan
8- Lucas

>>30937543
Yeah, that makes sense from a gameplay perspective, but from a story perspective beating a trainer makes you stronger than them. Everyone in universe acknowledges this, hence why they always compliment you on your strength and always say that they want to get on your level after you beat them.

>>30937578
See>>30937372
>>30937133

No one here is using popularity as a guage

>>30936716
Red is like those older Olympians - It's unfair to compare because he literally paved the way for all that came behind him.

>>30937607
No...just because he paved the way doesn't mean he shouldn't be considered shit by today's standards.

>>30937571
Stronger = more dangerous.
I thought this was obvious. Galactic COULD'VE cause deleted the universe, but it wasn't their power. They weren't strong. Team Rocket, on the other hand, needed no Legendaries. They actually did things. They were strong on their own, and they didn't care about anyone who stood in their way, thus making them dangerous.

>>30937594
The "local thugs" of Team Rocket did more than any other Team ever did. They were stronger than any other Team, maybe except for Plasma. That's the whole point.

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>>30937627
...what?

>>30937589
Could not be more wrong

1. Lucas stops universe resetting
2. Brendan saves world twice
3. Calem saves world once
4. Sun gets Nebby and stops Lusamine/Ultra Beasts saving Alola
5. Hilbert saves Unova gets Zekrom
6. Nate saves Unova
7. Gold beats Red and stops Rocket stopping Jotho from being inconvenienced
8. Red saves the Silph building and stops team rocket

>>30937542
>Gold got lucky and beat Red's Pokémon
>no one saw
>Red's still a legend
>Gold disappeared off of the face of the earth

>>30937661
>Hilbert saves Unova gets Zekrom
>the "Generations is canon" meme
wew

>>30937669
>Gold got lucky
Source: My fucking ass.

>>30937688
Used as an example/typed quick

You know what I meant

>>30937627
>got beat by a ten year old singlehandedly
>strong

>>30937688
N still has his legendary.
Why not Hilbert/Hilda, who is equal to him?

>>30937700
Not so strong argument.
You can say that to every villains.

>>30937700
>Team Galactic was beaten by a wild Pokemon
>strong

>>30937710
Sorry, I genuinely don't understand your post. What are you arguing?

>>30937696
And I suppose you have a source for Gold being stronger?
Or for that matter, postgame being canon and the battle even mattering at all?

>>30937688
Canon until proven otherwise. Retconning is a thing. Generations did that.

>>30937607
But Brendan rode to space on a dragon duribg the same year. Red cannot compare

>>30937729
It was a part of the story you had to catch Reshiram/Zekrom.
After two years N still has his legends. I don't see any reason, why the protags of BW wouldn't have them anymore.

>>30937732
What? How are you going to try invalidating an entire region as non-canon just because it's post game? That's stupid.

Gold is stronger than Red because he beat him, case closed.

>>30937752
No one in this thread is calling him stronger than Brendan. Everyone agrees Brendan is the strongest.

>>30937774
So no source, then?

>Gold beat Red
Even a source of this would be enough.

>>30937627
Team Plasma was stopped by the lake trio, who only helped because Lucas freed them, and a fucking antimatter dragon from hell.

Tean Rocket was stopped by two ten year olds, one time for hijacking a radio tower

Youre fucking retarded

>>30937722
>Rocket: beat by a ten year old singlehandedly
>Rocket Remnants: were garbage but still required the champion to aid a ten year old in order to beat them
>Aqua/Magma: Twelve year old required the opposite team to assist them in order to beat them, along with the Champion in one case
>Galactic: beaten by team-ups on several occasions, especially Spear Pillar
>Plasma: seven out of the ten Gym Leaders, not including Marlon and Roxie, had to fight them off so the ambiguously aged young man could stop N, not to mention a few other team-ups
>Flare: this doesn't even need mentioning
>Skull: beaten by team ups several times
>Aether: same

>>30937794
And that dragon from hell can be beaten by a 10 year old trainer. Your point?

>>30937753
Oh no, you misunderstand, I'm not saying that Black doesn't have his box legendary anymore. I'm saying that WHICH legend he has is still ambiguous.

>>30937818
By that logic everyones equal

>>30937817
K, I knew gen 1 Rocket was the weakest, but didn't expect it to be that weak.

>>30937785
I know that you're only asking for a source because you have no real argument and don't want to admit you're wrong, but here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Wnry9mRiEE

>>30937794
>team plasma

you mean galactic, retard

>>30937862
>postgame being canon
>no official acknowledgement from developers that Gold canonically beat Red
>relying merely on gameplay as proof
>when, with gameplay, Gold could've had a team of six Arceuses at his command

>>30937817
Don't forget Team Galactic bombed the shit out of a lake killing dozens of Pokemon

>but muh marowak

>>30937862
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYPKWHcBkBk
See, this guy caught Kyurem in BW. So that means BW2 didn't happen, right? OR MAYBE HILBERT WAS GHESTSIS!

>>30937893
True, I was mostly talking about how much it took to beat them. The fact that the protagonist trio split up to take them on at all three lakes is filed under "team up"

>>30937851
>>30937817
Except N actually beat the Champion with a single Pokemon, and Hilbert was strong enough to stop him. That is an achievement that speaks for his strength.

In similar vein, Giovanni was the strongest Gym Leader, strong enough that no one had won against him in a long time. His team was also strong enough to take over an entire city, and no one could stop them. Beating them is also an achievement.

>>30937946
That doesn't say jack shit about THEIR strength, it just means everyone but Red was weak as piss.
Besides, Blue beat Giovanni at the gym too. And became Champion for a short time. Then took Giovanni's fucking gym some time later.

>>30937890
>post game being completely non-canon
Fucking prove it, then. The devs don't acknowledge it because, to anyone with a brain, it should be obvious that it happened. And that "mere gameplay" is what makes Oak give you one of the Kanto starters. And having six Arceuses would be completely impossible outside of hacking, making it a shit example.

Just admit the only reason you keep arguing this is because you know you're wrong but are too much of a fucking pussy to admit it.

Everyone sees it.

>>30937979
>this much straw-grasping
We're done here. You lost. It's over.

>>30938001
you're...actually retarded, aren't you?

>>30937973
You can say everyone else in the region, including the City's Gym Leader, were piss easy, or you can say that Giovanni was strong, and Red and Blue, two Champions, were strong. Either works.

>>30938001
>can't come up with a counter argument
>b-b-but you're WRONG
Not even the guy you're arguing with, but jesus fuck are you pathetic.

>>30937979
If postgame is canon, why isn't Hilbert a Champion or have Kyurem? Why are Zekrom and Reshiram not in their Light/Dark Stone forms in ORAS? Why has it ANYTHING from postgame ever been acknowledged?

>>30938045
>can't come up with a counter argument
>b-b-but you're WRONG
You mean like what he did here? >>30937979

>>30938001

Not that guy, but your bait was running really well until you did that. 7/10.

The amount of deluded shinohfetuses is astounding, the universe wasn't going to get reset, Cyrus thought it would but instead he just summoned Giratina who absorbed him into the distortion world, literally destined to fail. Besides, Cynthia was there too.

>>30937979
If postgame or gameplay in general was canon, BW2 would have never happened.

>80 replies
>13 people

What the fuck guys

>>30938096
>anything I don't agree with is bait!
Move along, kiddo.

>>30938063
Red is considered the champion in SM when Blue says "we were both champions in our time". So we can only assume the same applies to Hilbert. The mega universe is a different world with different rules, so I can't really explain the BW legends being included. And the last point was debunked by the first point.

>>30938126

4/10 now. You need to learn the art of letting things go at the exact right time before you get too transparent.

>>30938119
4chan is full of argumentative pricks.

>>30938138
>still hasn't acknowledged Kyurem
Using your very own logic BW2 never happened. Do you actually believe BW2 never happened?

>>30938147
Then why are you still replying?

>>30938138
>So we can only assume the same applies to Hilbert
On what basis? That Red and Blue are Champions? How does that prove Hilbert was a Champion, when he's never referred to as such in any game?
What about the point with Kyurem? Also, why is there a Mewtwo in HGSS? If postgame is canon, either Red caught it, or beat it, which caused it to run away. Same goes for Mewtwo in XY, and Zygarde in SM.

>The mega universe is a different world with different rules
Nothing so far suggests the stories have changed though.

>>30937578

They do that because he's the only protag to become an NPC, they're jerking him off to jerk off their own ego.

>>30937076
Team Rocket are weak as fuck. How the fuck are they on the level of any of the other teams barring Team Skull?

>>30938177
>using your very own logic
No, you're putting words in my mouth and using bullshit logic to try and prove me wrong. The explanation is simple, Hilbert defeated Kyurem instead of catching it.

>>30938235
>using headcanon to prove your point
Holy shit you're retarded

>>30938235
But even that causes it to disappear. You can argue Ghetsis found it had run away, but that wouldn't explain why Ghetsis knew that Kyurem came from Giant Chasm.

>>30938205
>on what basis
On the basis that beating a champion makes you the champion and Blue proved it? And common sense would dictate that he simply came back years after being beaten. You also seem to forget that Mewtwo was completely gone from the original games, meaning that Red most likely did capture/meet him during the post game. Therefore, the post game was acknowledged.
>Nothing so far suggests the stories have changed though.
you mean besides the use of a giant laser to fuck shit up from the beginning? a laser that could have major impacts on later story events?

My MC can beat ur MC in a fight

Brendan, Hilbert, Calem and Sun are the only ones that canonically have legendaries.

>>30938296
and legendaries that disappear because you defeat them come back after some time - ingame it's after you clear the league again.

>>30938316
what about Gold? How canon is him having the Celebi you need to battle Giovanni?

Friendly reminder that no legendary capture that isn't mandatory isn't canon. Red doesn't have Mewtwo, Gold doesn't have Ho-Oh or Lugia, Lucas didn't capture Palkia/Dialgia or Giratina, Nate didn't capture Zekrom. Brendan has Megafug, Hilbert has Zekrom/Reshiram, Sun has Solgaloe/Lunala and I can't remember if Yveltal/Xerneas was mandatory.

>>30938348

>Shit that requires event mon
>Canon.

Anything the game doesn't force you to do to reach the credits isn't canon.

>>30938322
Not Kyurem though. He's gone for good. And if a Trainer had come and defeated Kyurem, that would get rid of the towns problems. They would surely at least mention that. Right now, your argument it that "He probably did" with nothing backing that up.

>>30938109
The only reason Giratina was summoned was because you freed the Lake Trio and they summoned him you fucking clod. It was a last ditch effort by them to stop Cyrus.

>>30938119
>an actual pokemon discussion that doesn't degenerate into something else for once
i'm okay with this

>>30938383
Yeah sure, that's why we can see the lake trio in generations, right?

>G-generations is not canon.
It's more canon than your retarded headcanon.

>>30938377
That was literally my first post ITT Is Kyurem actually an exception to the rule? I thought it worked for evey legendary

>>30938310
>On the basis that beating a champion makes you the champion and Blue proved it?
In Red/Blue's case, they had both beaten the E4 and the Champion, which makes them Champions. In Hilbert's, though, he never beats the Champion until postgame.

>You also seem to forget that Mewtwo was completely gone from the original games
Not in HGSS, though. Which are the remakes that replace the original. They acknowledged it back then, when there were only 2 games, but they quickly retconned that.

>a laser that could have major impacts on later story events?
But how that affect the Legendaries becoming stones? Megas exist, but that has nothing to do with the Original Dragon.

Red stopped criminals
Same with gold
Everyone stopped super villains

>>30938450
Yes, it is. Kyurem is gone for good once you beat him. I think this also happens with a few other Legendaries, so it's not only Kyurem.

>>30937104
Then Red isn't stronger than the elite four and the gym leaders except Giovanni, he just beated them once, right?

>>30938441
>Generations is more canon than the fucking game itself

>>30938502
The criminals were strong.
The super villains had big plans.

>>30938513
He is, because he also beat Blue, multiple times, who also beat E4. In other words, it happened too many times to be mere coincidence.

>>30938450
>>30938504
Okay, my bad. He does respawn. I checked my own game.

>>30938441
>Generations
>Canon

I also remember fighting one armed Ghetsis and Kyurem in the first Black and White

My almonds have been activated

Red took down a vast criminal mafia empire.
Ethan took down that organization's remnants.
Hilbert beat a manipulative mastermind who had swayed half the region to his side. Nate beat that mastermind after he had gone crazy and froze a whole city for revenge.
Lucas stopped a cold, calculating man who was seconds away from destroying the fabric of time and space.
Brendan beat two complete idiots.

>>30938513
Technically, it depends on your way of thinking.
For one thing, at the time, Blue had literally just breezed through the E4, so it's possible that they didn't get the chance to use the full strength of their teams. They might have had to rotate out their Pokémon entirely.
And speaking of that, Origins, while not technically in the same canon, brought up the possibility of Gym Leaders only using Pokémon that would be a challenge to Trainers at a specific point in their journey. We don't know what their greatest teams would be.

>>30938618
>Brendan beat two complete idiots.
And world ending monsters, and a Meteor and an alien.

>>30938627
But Gym Leaders are generally weaker than E4, so if Red can beat E4, Gym Leaders shouldn't be a problem. As for weakened teams, Red had also just came out of Victory Road, fighting hoards of Trainers. He was also weakened, by that logic.

>>30938673
Red had access to a Pokémon Center and a PC right in front of the entrance.
E4 lock themselves in their rooms, and we don't see healing machines in their rooms.

>>30938711
By that logic, they also couldn't have swapped teams, since they didn't have access to the PC
Healing Machine was right outside, and if they didn't use it, they must've used items, which they do have.

>>30937627
>Team Rocket, on the other hand, needed no Legendaries. They actually did things. They were strong on their own, and they didn't care about anyone who stood in their way, thus making them dangerous.
Team Galactic fucking bombed Lake Valor and was about to reactivate a super volcano in exchange for one hundred billion dollars, Team Rocket can hardly stand up to that.

Let's make another comparison

Literally Pikachu
Lyra
May
Dawn
Literally Zekrom/Reshiram
Yancy
Shauna/Serena
Lillie

Who's the protagonist that has it better?

>>30938481
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mT-O4G27kso

Relevant

So, reading through all of these autistic 130 posts, how does this sound?

>Feats
Lucas >> Brendan >> Calem > Hilbert > Red > Sun > Ethan

>Power
Brendan >>>>>>>> Red/Hilbert > Lucas/Sun > Nate > Ethan

>>30937645
Magma/Aqua awakened Groudon/Kyogre potentially killing everything on the Earth
Galactic got to control Uxie, Mesprit, Azelf, Palkia and Dialga; almost destroyed the entire universe

I agree that Rocket is dangerous but their goal wasn't killing everything, they are just a mafia. A mafia isn't always dangerous, just when you do something that annoys them.

>>30937627
You're an idiot.

Let's list all the shit Rocket did in gen III:
>Excavate a mountain for fossils
>Run a Gamecorner
>Poach pokemon in the pokemon tower (killing a Marowak in the process) while holding Mr. Fuji hostage
>Invade and temporarily take over Silph Co. before getting btfo by the protagonist
>Excavate a mountain for a gemstone
>Steal another gemstone before giving up and being disbanded
They're petty criminals at best

What about what Galactic did in gen IV:
>Harass an old man and his young assistant
>Take over a windworks by holding the owner hostage in order to steal energy
>Plant a bomb in the Great Marsh
>Threaten to blow up Celestic Town
>Absolutely destroy the three lakes, capturing Mesprit, Uxie and Azelf in the process
>Subject these legendaries to what essentially amounts to torture in order to extract and create the Red Chain
>Invade Mt. Coronet and actually manage to summon both Dialga and Palkia in a bid to recreate the entire universe before being thwarted by Giratina, something no one expected
>Steal the Magma Stone to set Heatran off in an effort to ransom Sinnoh by threatening to make Stark Mountain explode
Half is petty criminal shit like Rocket, the other half is pretty much terrorism. Cyrus probably would've succeeded with his plan too if not for Giratina, a pokemon that practically nobody knew about

Galactic > Rocket

>>30938618
They are indeed idiots, but those idiots almost killed everything by awakening ancient monsters

>>30938881
>Calem isn't even in the power chart
kek

>>30938911
Yeah, but that's what I've been arguing about. Kyogre and Groudon were strong, but Magma/Aqua were shit. They couldn't do anything by themselves.
While Galactic was much stronger, as they did manage to catch the Lake Guardians, but they weren't threatening the universe. Dialga and Palkia were. But Giratina came and killed that hope. It wasn't Lucas who stopped the destruction of the Universe. It was Giratina and the Lake Guardians.

Wouldn't it technically be canon for Sun to have Zygarde.

>>30939351
The teams were shit by themselves, but the pokemon they summoned actually threatened the world
Let's make a comparison
Case 1: you go with a knife, kill a person and steal his money
Case 2: you just press a button. But this button just happens to be the button that makes a nuclear bomb to be launched
Which one is more dangerous?

This is the same, Rocket steal and kill, Magma/Aqua just stealed a stone that just happened to awaken Groudon/Kyogre, pokemon capable of destroying the life on the Earth

>>30939523
I understand that, but this is about personal strength. If you have to fight the person pressing the button, sure, you saved a lot of people, and it a huge achievement, but defeating the one with knife is harder. That's my whole point.
Again, I'm not undermining their achievements, but when it comes to sheer difficulty, I just think beating Rocket all alone is harder.

>>30939581
But Brendan didn't just fought Magma/Aqua, he defeated/captured primal Groudon or primal Kyogre
And he also captured Rayquaza, mega evolved it and went to the space to battle Deoxys and make Rayquaza destroy a giant meteorite

>>30939628
And I recognize Brendan as the strongest. He clearly did more than Red. There's no denying that. But in Lucas' case, he just fought Giratina. And same for others, like Lysandre.
If Lucas had fought Dialga/Palkia, or if Calem had fought the weapon that could wipe out humanity, it would've been much grander. But they didn't. Lucas even had Cynthia and Barry helping him, by just healing his Pokemon.

They're still ridiculously strong, and you can argue they could also do it all alone, but the same applies to Red. He could also do the same in their situations. Right now, I personally believe Red's feat are harder to achieve, and that's why I'm putting him above others.

>>30938983
>heatran
b-b-but post game content can't be canon!

>>30940162
Protagonists' action aren't. Team Plasma still fucked with Heatran.

>>30940268
so it's only canon if its convenient for an argument

>>30937577
>Why do you think they haven't arrested all of the mafia families in real life yet?
because they're funded by the government

>>30937332
>nothing suggests they're unbeatable by normal Trainers
except for the fact that nobody defeats them but you and then it's seen as a big deal when you do so

>>30940319
No, but because it's been proven otherwise. Silver IS Giovanni's son, just the protagonist doesn't know it. Similar to how the right side of Unova DOES exist, just the protagonist didn't explore it. Kyurem and Mewtwo are in their caves, just the protagonist didn't fuck with them. Blue does become a Gym Leader, just the Champion of another region didn't challenge him for a badge for no reason. Anabel and Caitlin does exist, but again, the protagonist didn't fuck with them.

A lot of postgame content has been proven to exist. We, however, have zero proof of protagonists' involvement in that. So instead of assume it happened even though we have no proof, it is far more logical to assume the protagonist didn't get involved unless we get the proof.

Dawn > Brendan

Fighting Giratina >>> fighting and capturing Rayquaza

>>30940506
Except no? That's dumb. The reason people don't try proving the protagonist's involvement is that it should be obvious to anyone that they went there. Game freak wouldn't make an entire region for you to explore or give you another half of a region to the adventure through if they were just gonna make it non-canon. Your lack of evidence argument barely holds any water because of the fact that too many of the games occur in different regions for the actions of the past protagonists to even be referenced.

But let me give you an example of post game content being proven canon. In HGSS, there exists a rocket grunt you battle in Cerulean city on its bridge. He has a weird accent. You beat him and never see him again. Until you get to BW, that is. In Icirrus City, you see him living a reformed life and reminiscing about the events in HGSS. Specifically, an event that happened in the post game. This may seem like an insignificant event, but it's enough to prove that post game content DOES happen. Assuming that it doesn't is just some nonsense belief that this board started spreading for who knows what reason.

>>30939059
literally 17+ and still from the easiest game