So now that the dust settled how good is it compared to the Protean?

Protean is a little better, Ash-Greninja is an absurd wallbreaker and revenge killer though.

It's viable on its own.

People tried to use it the same way as Protean ninja and that clearly didn't work. When people started used the specs set they realized it was fucking good

>>30915365
Strong, not as good as Protean. Protean frog is a lot more versatile and can do almost the same amount of damage. This one is only offensive, and need a KO.

>>30915385
isn't life orb = late-game cleaner who can switch moves, and specs as wall breaker? (who can also clean with choice water shuriken)

>>30915365
First off, it's probably one of the best late game cleaners in the game. The differences from protean actually keep it fairly balanced.

Next,
>So now that the dust settled
Kill yourself

So is the powered-up water shuriken any good, or is it pointless since priority got the shaft this gen?

>>30915589
It's still good, cause Ash-Greninja isn't meant to be a lead, it's great for late game cleaning and WS is good for said purpose.

The common set is Hydro Pump / Dark Pulse / Water Shuriken or U-Turn / Ice Beam

With rocks/spikes support this thing is really scary.

Special only or mixed? I only get one, so I wanna make sure I don't regret going Timid if I do. There's future move tutor to consider as well.

>>30915667
Right now, it's all special. If you go with life orb over specs I guess you can get Hasty/Naive to futureproof the one Ashninja you get. It's hard to say. On non-STABs Battle Bond does a bit less damage than Protean does so depending on the target things like Gunk Shot won't actually OHKO.

>>30915786

Most of the targets are still ohko or almost


>20 Atk Life Orb Greninja-Ash Gunk Shot vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 380-447 (98.9 - 116.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Protean is OHKO. Ash-Greninja is 87% to OHKO without rocks, but
>not using rocks


20 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Clefable: 346-408 (87.8 - 103.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

20 Atk Life Orb Greninja-Ash Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Clefable: 330-390 (83.7 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

both are still mostly 2hko.

20 Atk Life Orb Greninja-Ash Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gardevoir-Mega: 442-523 (159.5 - 188.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Protean the same ofc

20 Atk Life Orb Greninja-Ash Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 359-424 (127.7 - 150.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO


20 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 218-257 (63.3 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

20 Atk Life Orb Greninja-Ash Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 205-244 (59.5 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


the only thing it's REALLY matter is

232 SpA Life Orb Greninja-Ash Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 286-338 (88.5 - 104.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO


236 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 322-382 (99.6 - 118.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO


which can be just killed with water shuriken afterward


move tutors can only do good for it. Right now specs is best for terrifying wallbreaking/cleaning, life orb is all-right for cleaning, sometime even better because you can switch moves and kill weakened scarfers with water-shuriken