>Z-Moves hyped to be insane shonen anime kill buttons that

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>>30870984
>he doesn't know about Z-Fly Landorus-T

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>>30870984
pincer upside down

>>30871005
So that brings the grand total of Pokemon capable of using Z-Crystals competitively to what? 3? Off the top of my head I only count Porygon-Z and Azumarill aside from that. Everyone else that -could- use one has better options.

>>30871018
You can't twist your own arm?

>>30870984
Megas were ridiculously centralizing and given primarily to mons that were already strong and popular or otherwise made them only useful in that context. You also sound like you would never reconsider that Megas were a dumb decision if you start a thread with what amounts to INB4 PEOPLE TRY TO SAY SOMETHING AGAINST ME

>>30871031
Normalium-Z Pyroar with Diaper Beam lol

>>30871034
But anon I agree that some mons should NEVER have gotten megas. Things like Blaziken, Salamence, legends, etc... have no business having megas.

However things like Pinsir, Altaria, Sableye, Mawile, etc... were irredeemable shit prior to megas. I think a couple OP mons getting more OP because GF can't into balance is worth making some trash mons viable.

>>30871057
>Sableye
>irredeemable shit
Stopped reading there, Scizorfag.

>>30870984
I hope one Day Z sandstrom mega chomp will be a thing

Its fun with Excadrill

>>30871075
>UU since conception until it got a mega
>Not shit

>>30871075
Sableye is lacking lacking even as a prankster user mega did save its ass
>>30871088
>UU=Shit
This meme needs to end

>>30871075
After all the nerfs that happened, yeah I got to say there's no reason to use it without its Mega.

>>30871075
So fucking switch Sableye to Charizard or some other trash mon. Just because one mon on that short list was "okay" doesn't mean the point isn't valid.
>Scizorfag
Oh I get it, you're just going to disregard everything I say because either A. M-Scizor is good, or B. Scizor got to keep its mega in SM and your "bro" didn't. Let me guess, Heracross?

>>30871075
Dark types are immune to Prankster moves now. Sableye needs it's megastone to ever stay relevant

>>30871031
grassium z heatran with solar beam is pretty damn good

>>30871175
>Wasting a move slot on solar beam
Heatran has much better options. This generation in particular he REALLY wants a Scarf and Earth Power.

>>30871192
tapu fini is a pretty common switch in to lava plume. Bloom doom that bitch and she dies and they just lost their defogger. Seems worth to me

>>30871192
It's a fine option bloom doom hits hard enough especially since bulu and heatran are glued together

>>30871192
>>30871218
252 SpA Heatran Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Tapu Fini: 272-322 (79 - 93.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

here is the calc when I changed solar beam to 190 bp (the power of bloom doom

>>30871218
It's a decent check anon, I'm not saying its bad. I'm just saying Heatran has arguably better options, which is not what Z-Crystals were advertised to be.

Megas were good enough to completely void nearly every other set a Pokemon had. Z-Moves struggle to even be a consideration on a handful of Pokemon.

>>30871244
oh yeah I totally agree. Megas are way cooler and z-moves are a little too unpredictable which makes me worry lure sets are going to be extremely strong this gen. They also don't solve the problem of weak pokemon being irrelevant because strong pokemon will just be better at using z-moves

>>30871192
It's not a waste, it's a fucking staple of OU.

Have you ever heard of trap Tran?

Magma storm solarbeam taunt toxic/flash cannon/ep with a power herb is a legitimate set.

This thing is meant to kill defensive switch ins to Heatran, Bloom Doom is a complete upgrade to this set as you get an insanely powerful no charge solarbeam of 190 BP for the same item cost as power herb with the added bonus of a knock off pseudo resistance.

We theorized this long ago, and unlike savage spin out Talonflame, Heatran was a complete upgrade. Shame on Talonflame nerf, savage spin out Tflame would have been glorious.

>>30871305
Again anon, I never said it was bad. Just that it's not clearly the "best" option. I have conceded that it is a good set, it's just not the "you use this or nothing" set like megas are primarily.

>>30871031
Waterium-z manaphy

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>>30870984
Meh, megas and Z crystals are both retarded, and cringy.
One makes the pokemon more edgy = more power (pic related) and the other involves some retarded dance to magically makes the mon do a super world destroying attack.
If they wanted to make older pokemon stay relevant, they could've done something else, like BUFF them, giving them useful abilities and/or giving them moves.
If they wanted to 'change' the gameplay itself, they could've simply changed the fact that mons only have 4 attacks.
I always found it stupid and always will.

Only reason we got Z moves is so they could sell those 30bucks toys to kids and autists
It also gave them excuses to give 'sugoii' moves to random pokemons that only they could see (see alolan surfer raichu)

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>>30871432
>One makes the pokemon more edgy
Stopped reading there. Your buzzwords are shit and you don't know what you're talking about.

>>30871432
>Mega-Altaria
>Mega-Ampharos
>Mega-Audino
>Mega-Venusaur

>more edgy

I actually prefer Z moves. Every pokemon has access to them unlike mega stones and they're not absurdly overpowerd.

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>>30871464
'Hey look at me I'm a buzzword!'

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>>30871464
>>30871471
'A-Am I edgy yet??'

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>>30871482
>>30871493
Don't ever talk to me or my apparently edgy son ever again.

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>>30871482
>>30871493
>A handful of Megas are edgy
>T-THAT MEANS ALL OF THEM ARE EDGY!

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lol

>>30871031
Azumarill is better off with Sitrus still
Jirachi is decimating UU with Z-Happy Hour

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>>30871544
By handful, you mean half of them right?

>>30871527
That summarizes the new dex entry for Kangaskhan pretty well

>>30870984
Are you retardred? Megas are still a thing.

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>>30871482
>>30871493

The edgiest

>>30871552
Even if it is half, how does half of them being edgy make ALL of them edgy?

>>30871564
illegal in vgc, half of them are unobtainable in the game as of now despite being in the code
it's not all that unlikely they'll shelve them completely in the next mainline game that's running on a different console

>>30871527
According to the dex entry, that is actually pretty accurate

>>30871432
>get rid of four moveslots
I'm just going to assume you don't realize how much more retarded smeargle would get

>>30871423
Sweet mother of God, I was retarded enough to use stall once...

>>30871585
>it's not all that unlikely they'll shelve them completely in the next mainline game that's running on a different console
Impossible considering that megas are popular as fuck and still get merchandise.
If obtuse stuff like Kyurem transformations are still a thing there's no way that megas will be deleted.

>>30871432
Did you just called Diancie and Audino edgy?

Also tell me how are the Megas working out for Latios, Garchomp and Ttar? All of those prefer to run an item over the stat boost.

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>>30871583
With a few exceptions like Mega Audino, they are pretty fucking edgy, like pic related. Exceptions to a norm do not disprove the norm, else stereotypes would not exist or we wouldn't say every Ice-type is a SLOW BULKY ICE-TYPE when Weavile is pretty much the only exception. Hell, something like Mega Salamence might as well be a Double-Edge

>>30871585
You have to be a colosal retard to believe that they will get rid of them. Right now it's just GF being Jews, that's like saying they will get rid of Giratina's form just cause they don't want you get the Griseus Orb anymore.

>>30870984
What did you expect the to be, 100% accuracy instant kill moves?

>>30871640
On a less autistic note, soul dew is not broken anymore.

That's nice to be honest.

I'll laugh my arse off is griseous orb allows his unique move to become a z move for Giratina that allows it to pseudo mega evolve and change form.

>>30871639
Because regular Pinsir wasn't "edgy" at all right?

>>30871630
So like I said half of them aren't edgy, at least? I guess? Who cares about them tho.
Did they need mega evolutions to be cool?

And never said they were bad or good, I said they were retarded. They still made it a choice for the players, whether you want to use them or not, it means they 'knew' that some mega evolutions weren't always more viable than some items.

>>30871671
>Who cares about them tho
I care.
>Did they need mega evolutions to be cool?
They need mega evolutions to be better and more diverse.
>And never said they were bad or good, I said they were retarded
>I didn't post an argument, I posted a non-argument

>>30871639
You realize nearly EVERY edgy mega was edgy BEFORE mega evolution, right?

We have a SHIT LOAD of edgy Pokemon. I guess that means Pokemon is stereotypically edgy!

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>>30871670
You can only add so many edges to something before it gets dumb like Mega Pinsir. The wings were very much needed but the spikes going through its wing covers and its eyes were overkill. Also, have Deviant Art and FurAffinity's lovechild

>>30871697
Edgy is not valid criticism.
The spikes are fine, they add color.
As for Absol, it was always like that.

>>30871692
>implying Charizard was edgy
I don't think you know what edgy even means.

>>30871687
>English comprehension
lol
Reread my first post, then yours.
Try again.

>>30871714
>I don't think you know what edgy even means
It means nothing, it's an empty buzzword.

>>30871671
They didn't optimized them right to be superior options.

It's a cool form change mid battle, and something worth considering when team building, just like trap Tran now running Bloom Doom as an option.

They aren't retarded, they aren't a bad thing and outside of the broken ones like the primals, Fug, Mewtwo for the sake of being Mewtwo, Gengar, Blaziken for the sake of being a mega of speed boost Blaziken, Gengar, Khangaskan and Salamence Megas are actually OK in execution.

Z stones aren't worse either, they give you options and tools to team build around.

>>30871719
yes anon, every 'buzzword' is just an empty shell without any meanings
Buzzword is a buzzword too.
kill yourself

>>30871724
Wow, edgy.

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>>30871714
I said NEARLY every you illiterate pavement ape. Mons like Salamence, Scizor, Pinsir, Sharpedo, etc... were already edgy.

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>>30871736

>>30870984
>if you disagree you are the minority
Shame GF disagrees with you ;)

Hopefully that dumb shit stays abandoned.

Z-moves are shit too.

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>>30871751
>Salamence
>following your dreams and finding success is edgy
I guess everyone on this board is anti-edge. Fug.

>>30871722
No, I don't mind it from a gameplay perspective, not much at least, I would've prefered what I said earlier (Abilities/moves/stats or even giving them real evolutions)
More options is always better. But I still find them retarded, in the form.
There's literally a handful mega evo that are actually better than their original forms.
And the fact that the wrong mons got the mega evolutions, but that's another topic, I guess?

>>30871778
You havent read its entries?
Megas were MISTAKE

>>30871716
All I see is retarded shit.
Buffing a Pokemon can make it more useful, but not more versatile unlike mega evolutions.
Gyaradosite gives Gyarados a new type and role in the meta for example. Same goes for Venusaur, Charizard, Altaria et al.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with having extra options, and "it's cringy edgy" is not valid criticism.

>>30871778
Being a powerful dragon with Devilman wings is edgy.

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>>30871778
Dragon and Dark types are naturally edgy.

>>30871785
Those entries most likely only apply to those that stay in Mega form for to long, this is probably why they're temporary battle forms and not like Hoopa. Megas probably can occur in nature, but you need a Keystone to keep them from loosing there minds.

>>30870984
Z-moves are actually really good in VGC.
Not that I'd expect you scrublords to know anything about that.

>>30871794
What is Gyarados's new role? M-Gyara is just better at DDing

>>30871819
Damn, Dragonite sure is edgy.

>>30871794
Yeah you still don't get it, english is hard I guess.
Why couldn't they simply give gyarados another evolution? Or a new form? Or anything to give it your dark type? Why did they have to add spikes to make it relevant?
See, was it so hard?

>>30871825
People who talk shit about Z-moves are the same who said that Celesteela would have been RU at best.

>>30871075
What are you talking about, Anon? Sableye's highest stat was 75 in Atk and Def, and gained a weakness to Fairy in Gen 6, making it less useful. It needed more bulk to be relevant and a Mega Evolution was what it really needed, even Magic Bounce was a saving grace for it.

>I don't like it, so I call it edgy
This entire thread.

>>30871835
>Why couldn't they simply give gyarados another evolution?
It doesn't need an evolution, it needs more playstyles.
>Or a new form?
A mega is a new form.
>Or anything to give it your dark type?
Like a mega stone?
>Why did they have to add spikes to make it relevant?
Because it fits its new typing.

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>>30871833
Every dragon tamer in the games is LITERALLY a cape wearing edge lord. The Draconian race has raven black hair and BLOOD RED EYES for fucks sake. Individual dragons like Altaria might not be "edgy", but dragons in Pokemon are DEFINITELY edgy.

>>30871857
BEFORE Mega Evolutions, it was fine with Prankster. OP said it was irredeemable shit BEFORE getting a Mega Evolution. Reading comprehension.

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>>30871862
Sure anon, I guess that's why they're getting rid of mega evos, because they were so good game-design wise!
What will you say when they'll get rid of Z-moves next gen?

is there anything you retards won't call edgy? It's seriously one of the most overused buzzwords along with cringe. You also act like edgy is somehow a valid criticism when almost every single dark and dragon can be called edgy by your standards. There's nothing wrong with something being "dark". Yes it gets played up to an extreme by kids and fedoralords who think they're cool but this shouldn't invalidate certain designstyles

>>30871874
>these dragons aren't edgy
>BUT THE CONCEPT OF "DRAGON" MAKES THEM EDGY BY DEFAULT

please stop

>>30871882
>they're getting rid of mega evos
They're still producing tons of merch and megas are still in the game.

>>30871892
>retards
Damn that's an edgy buzzword. BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

>>30871909
Your age is showing, anon. And I'm not talking physically.

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I like Mega Mawile though...

>>30871874
Dragon Tamers aren't Dragon-types. They train Dragon-types, but you said Dragon-types are naturally edgy. Which they aren't. A lot of them are cute or majestic. They just happen to be trained by edgelords.

>>30871892
>tumblr level of autism
Edgyness has always been a thing and will always be, as much as you try to make it 'irrelevant'.
Just like some pokemons are gay and some are obviously made for waifufags.

>>30871882
Megas were buffed in this gen actually.

>>30871927
Excellent projecting, Anon, since you also play a game for kids and take it this seriously. Oh wait that's also a buzzword, too, isn't it? BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

>>30871907
How many megas did you get in your sun/moon game anon?
Tell me

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>>30871902
Then explain why every dragon user is an edgelord besides Iris and Drayden.

>>30871948
I can get as many as I want with battle points.

>>30871947
Shut the fuck up, Rotom

>>30871958
Actually, I'm Mega Beedrill, and I'm salty I'm not in this game yet.

>>30871126
>implying I give a shit about Mega Heracross
Go deliver your burritos elsewhere.

>>30871968
>salty
Stopped reading there, fucking buzzword kids..

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>>30871432
Mega Aerodactyl is a Rathian reference, so it's not like the edges come from a vacuum. There's a few Megas that seem to have been invented solely so that Game Freak could reference something that's popular in Japan. Mega Tyranitar looks like Psaro the Manslayer, for instance, Mega Sceptile is suspiciously similar to Green Nargacuga in places, and Mega Pinsir is some straight-up Kamen Rider bullshit.

>>30871939
>some pokemon are gay
I'm really struggling to see what the point of anything you just typed was

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>>30871985
>he fucks buzzword kids
Autism.

>>30871986
I thought mega Tyra was more of a Space Godzilla reference.

>>30871929
me too

Would've preferred if certain Megas gave the Pokemon a different body shape instead of adding more details. Think of it like Mega Chicken being an actual chicken instead of Super Chickenman.

>>30871929
I like most of them.

>>30871929
I love my wife! She is nice, and pretty too.

>>30872006
That sounds so retarded it might actually be fun

>>30871551
Is this for real? Azumarill set is still the same?

>>30871951
>These dragons aren't edgy
>BUT THE TRAINERS MAKE THEM EDGY BY DEFAULT

It really makes you think

>>30872025
yeah you gain no advantage with z-belly drum over sitrus

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>>30872001
I've heard that that, but the more prominent second face, sideways-pointing scutes, and the fucking knee spikes that only appear at the end point directly to Psaro the Manslayer's final form. Mega Tyranitar is what you get when pic related and Godzilla have a baby, and considering that Tyranitar is already just Not!Godzilla, it's fair to say that Mega Tyranitar is a Psaro reference.

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>this whole thread

>>30872006
Well, you sort of have that with Heracross, who now actually becomes a Hercules beetle, though with gun hands for whatever reason, and I have no idea why that was a decision that was made. It even had moves added to its learnset just for its Mega.

>>30872037
Dumb Dragoniteposter.

>edgy animals exist
>cute animals exist

>pokemon are exaggeratedly edgy
>pokemon are exaggeratedly cute

where's the problem?

>>30872050
Autistic people are the problem.

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>>30872032
If the dragons aren't edgy, why do edgelords love them? This is like Sonic the Hedgehog isn't autistic despite him being the fucking mascot for the autism community.

>Liking Megas
Hey buddy I think you got the wrong door. The Digimon thread's two pages down.

>>30872066
So are all Pokemon furries? Think before you speak, and don't project those traits onto Pokemon.

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>>30872034
>>30871551
>>30872025
This is simply not true. Z-Belly Drum means you can -always- Drum safely. It's arguably as good if not better than Citrus. Getting hit hard prior to Drumming on the Citrus set means you're fucked.

ALSO, you can use NORMAL Belly Drum and THEN Z-Belly Drum. The Z-Belly Drum will fail as your attack is already maxed, but you STILL heal to full. It's a fucking free Rest with no sleep.

Also, Body Slam is good neutral coverage and gives access to a 160 power Breakneck Blitz if you need it.

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>>30872071
Megas are part of the Pokemon world and will always be.
The sooner you'll accept it the less your ass will burn.

>>30872066
It could be because of their good typing and huge BSTs and movepools, which until fairy existed, literally allowed you to run 4drag2mag and click outrage once steel types were removed

>>30872034
Thank you man, I struggle to find any serious analysis on this subject and since everyone was hyping Z-Drum but it didn't seem worth it I was doubtful.

>>30872105
AH FUCK YOU DIGIHEAD
MAYBE YOU AND I SHOULD SETTLE THINGS RIGHT HERE IN THE THREAD IF YOU THINK YOU'RE SO TOUGH

>>30872071
>Mega haters this desperate

>>30872034
>>30872112
Sitrus berry can be knocked off.

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>>30870984
1. Every team in VGC doubles has an attack Z-move, status z-moves are very rare

2. Megas fucking broke the game, virtually all of them have bad designs, and are mandatory on every team, and require no skill, timing, or prediction to use. You just hit LOLMEGA button and win the game automatically with fucking mega lucario. Everything about X/Y should be deleted, including mega evolution

>>30872116
Think you can beat me 1,2,3?

>>30872103
I didn't consider this. Thank you for both of your points of view

>>30872103
even if you get hit then z-bellydrum you're still at OHKO range for literally everything and you're up against something faster than you so you better hope aqua jet kills. That's just the wrong situation to be belly drumming at all in

>>30872135
YEAH LET'S GO. WHY DON'T YOU GET OUT OF THAT MEGA STUFF? I'LL STRIP DOWN OUT OF THIS AND WE'LL SETTLE IT RIGHT HERE IN THE THREAD WHADDYA SAY?
>>30872129
I'll show you who's boss of this gym.

>>30872134
>Megas fucking broke the game
No
>virtually all of them have bad designs
A couple of them have bad designs
>are mandatory on every team
A team can be perfectly functional without megas
>require no skill, timing, or prediction to use
They're normal pokemon with high stats. They can be countered, walled and OHKO'd like everything else in the game.

>>30872139
Or you know, don't fucking drum against something that can OHKO you if Aqua Jet will fail. Use Breakneck Blitz or Play Rough instead.

>>30872147
>gym
You can't show me anything is you don't exist :^)

>>30872156
did you just not read the end of my post?

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>>30872161
Oh shit I'm sorry.

>>30872156
>that's just the wrong situation to be belly drumming at all in
>proceeds to get pissed off and say that you shouldn't belly drum
autism

Megas are great, probably my favorite mechanic thus far. Though, it does annoy me a tad that legendaries get them too. I could understand primal reversion to an extent, but there was absolutely no reason why something like Mewtwo should have gotten TWO. Like why would that even make sense lore wise, who the fuck owns a Mewtwo to do that?

I think that there are a select few megas because there really are some pokemon that suited having them more than say... Slaking etc? If you look at the trend, they're all pretty popular pokemon, and even a few of those like Gardevoir or Mawile were shitmon fan favs for years. It wasn't entirely a mechanic simply for competitive play or to make them more viable, but it was to show the most favored pokemon some attention. If they cared about simply boosting pokemon, they can easily just retcon some stats and typing in future gens instead. But Pokemon is first and foremost an RPG, the competitive scene is second to the story and fanservice.

That's why we have shitmons, that's why we have retarded distribution of typings, moves, stats and abilities. It's because competition, while present, is not thee main focus of the game. Yes battling is everything in pokemon, but don't forget that's also deeply tied to the story, you can't give a slow "turtle" by lore high speed just because you feel it's unfair competitively.

Z moves were underwhelming, they don't particularly make anything "better" because anything can hold them. It essentially moves the placeholder for all pokemon up by 1. Though, some Z moves are way better than others, so I guess a few mon do benefit? Maybe the same amount as how many megas we have?

Z moves are here, it's another cheap option for variety, we don't need more of those so please GF get back to the megas. It would really make more sense if ALL starters got them at the very least. At least they're pretty much entirely new pokemon, the main whole point of the franchise.

If anything, the true enemy here are the genies. Megas and Z-Moves are just adding fuel to fire.

>>30872175
Not sure what that guy is on about, but the fact remains that the Z-set CAN drum in those situations and the sitrus set cannot. Meaning if Aqua Jet WOULD OHKO, you can do it.

I fail to see in what situation the sitrus set is ever better. The Z-set has significantly more room to Drum, access to a full heal, and Breakneck Blitz can hit hard as fuck if you don't want to drum.

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>>30872151
>A couple of them have bad designs
Is this a fucking joke?

>A team can be perfectly functional without megas
Is this a fucking joke?

>They're normal pokemon with high stats.
No shit retard, and also an insanely good ability

>They can be countered, walled and OHKO'd like everything else in the game.

Pic related should be in OU dude, it's just a normal pokemon with high stats. It can be countered, walled, and OHKOed like everything else in the game. What's the big deal atheists?

>>30872201
Genies dindu nuffin they was only tryna provide for their families and Thundurus got blue balled hard by Tapu Koko having better speed, typing, Electric moves, and even Flying-type moves.

>>30872202
what mon is going to stay in to hit azu if it isn't going to straight OHKO in the first place that can't take an aqua jet? How often does a mon drop azu below 25% without OHKO'ing?

>>30870984
>useless save for Z-support moves like Z-Conversion, Z-Belly Drum, and memes like Z-Splash
In what universe? They have many uses

>>30870984
Z status moves have a LOT of uses, tho.

>>30872204
>Is this a fucking joke?
No, learn the difference between your opinion and a fact.

>Is this a fucking joke?
No.

>No shit retard, and also an insanely good ability
Ability doesn't make a pokemon automatically broken.
Mega Pidgeot for example has a great ability but it still struggles to find a niche because it lacks coverage. Certain megas have abilities that don't fit them at all, such as Ampharos and Banette.

>Pic related should be in OU dude, it's just a normal pokemon with high stats
I never said that, besides, even without a mega Rayquaza can't be OU.
You're also mentioning the strongest mega of all, and the one that trascends the rules of megas themselves since it doesn't need to carry a stone.

>>30872228
Way to completely ignore my other points and fail to bring up any situations where the heal from Sitrus fucking matters comparatively to the FULL HEAL from Normalium Z and Breakneck Blitz "oh shit" button.

Why are you so adamantly against this? Even at absolute worst the two sets are comparable.

>>30872151
You really have no idea how bad things got with Megas on a gameplay level if you actually think they weren't obscenely broken.

>>30872202
it's really give and take. Yes there will be the occasional rare situation where z-belly drum is better but how often does that happen vs staying at around 75% and still being able to take a full hit before dying

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>>30872192
Well written post anon

I think most XY mega speed we're very dumb but ORAS Mega's were much more balanced between shitmons

still counting Lati@s as XY because they're in the code

>>30872262
The gen 6 meta was a lot more enjoyable than the gen 5 meta.

>>30872257
What in OU walls M-Luke?

>>30872289
Toxapex.
Not that it matters since Mega Lucario is uber, and not particularly strong compared to the non-megas in its tier.

>>30872261
>way to completely ignore my other points
>still not addressing that in actually belly drum scenarios sitrus is better
k well this discussion is going nowhere. Good luck

>>30870984
Z-Hyper Beam lets Serperior deal with something like Mega Charizard Y on the switch without SR damage.
>252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 32-38 (10.7 - 12.7%) -- possible 8HKO
>+2 252 SpA Serperior Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 267-315 (89.8 - 106%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
It's a legitimate option.

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>>30872281
Weather Wars weren't THAT abysmally terrible.

>>30872305
>in actually belly drum scenarios sitrus is better
This isn't true though. Azumarill is slow as fuck and is almost always GOING to get hit before it drums. In most cases at best Sitrus just heals you back to 50%.

The ONLY times you get a free drum is when you either force a switch or they use a status move. And if they are switching, whatever is coming in is probably going to survive that aqua jet and one shot you anyway.

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>>30871951
Nigga I will cut you.

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>>30872257
HOLY FUCK you are FUCKING stupid. The only reason you can "get away with" a non-mega team in smogon OU singles is because smogon BANNED ALL THE BEST ONES. If you really had an unrestricted environment where any non-box-legendary was allowed, then megas would be 100% absolutely fucking mandatory on every single goddamn team. And actually, when I say "megas" I actually just mean mega kangaskhan and mega salamence. Don't ufcking talk to me about this game fucking "pidgeot" shit. Nobody cares about shitmons idiot. Let's talk about the 850 BST megas with huge power and shit.

>I never said that, besides, even without a mega Rayquaza can't be OU.
Holy fuck you fucking retard, he was just showing you how goddamn retarded your own logic was. Saying "Megas are okay because it's just a normal pokemon xD with high stats ;) ;p xD" is fucking RETARDED. By that logic you could say lunala is okay for OU and wouldn't be meta-centralizing in any way, because "it's just a normal pokemon with high stats lol xD you can just OHKO it xD"

Fuck dude, you are retarded.

>doesn't think pic related is a bad design
pretty much all megas are ugly my man, kill you'reself.

>>30872339
She's so fucking forgettable that she doesn't even matter.

>>30872331
Sure, and Genies of Healthy Meta weren't abysmal either

>>30872357
Genies of Healthy Meta are still in Gen 6.

>>30872338
the only thing I've gained from this is learning that belly drum azu is shit. Thanks

>>30872304
LOL

MEGA LUC LEARNS PSYCHIC YOU FUCKING IDIOT. A single +2 makes it a OHKO!

Physical variants also learn EARTHQUAKE! A SINGLE +2 AND YOU'RE GONE, BUDDY.

NOTHING WALLS THE LUC. NOT EVEN YOUR GOD-POKEMON TOXAPEX

>>30872339
>literally wears teeth as jewelry
Damn that's edgy

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>>30872344
>The only reason you can "get away with" a non-mega team in smogon OU singles is because smogon BANNED ALL THE BEST ONES. If you really had an unrestricted environment where any non-box-legendary was allowed, then megas would be 100% absolutely fucking mandatory on every single goddamn team. And actually, when I say "megas" I actually just mean mega kangaskhan and mega salamence
So you only have a problem with a couple of megas, not with the concept of mega evolution itself, which is perfectly fine.

>By that logic you could say lunala is okay for OU and wouldn't be meta-centralizing in any way, because "it's just a normal pokemon with high stats lol xD you can just OHKO it xD"
In what way? I never mentioned tiers.

>pretty much all megas are ugly my man, kill you'reself
Nah, your taste is ugly, and your mom too.

>>30872304
+2 252 Atk Lucario-Mega Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 252-298 (82.8 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

The most physically defensive toxapex in the game can't switch in on M-Luke for fear of SD and earthquake

>>30872379
Except that the saving grace for the Z set is that they don't know you're going to fucking drum. If you drum and they didn't know you were going to, they are likely going to switch at THAT point, meaning the Z set can then heal itself back to full and absolutely destroy whatever the fuck is coming out.

The sitrus set loses in this scenario.

>>30872387
Nobody uses psychic and eq sets on Lucario.
Besides, if you have a problem with Pokemon with uber stats why aren't you complaining about box legendaries?

>>30872387
>god pokemon toxapex
I realize you're exaggerating and don't actually mean it but toxapex is not broken in the slightest and I really wish this meme would die. I've played with it and obviously have played against it and it feels exactly like any other wall with regen. If toxapex is broken then every single stall mon is broken

>>30872370
That's how bad they are, it's just that complaining about Megas is easier compared to trying to point out critical flaws about the genies, especially Landorus whose Incarnate forme got banned this meta.

>>30872304
>Mega Lucario used Swords Dance/Nasty Plot!
>Mega Lucario used Earthquake/Psychic!
GOOD FUCKING JOB. WHAT WOULD TOXAPEX EVEN DO, JUST POISON SPIKES AND HOPE IT TURNS OUT OKAY? MAYBE A SCALD AND HOPE ON THE 30% CHANCE IT GETS A 1ST DEGREE BURN, BUT OH WAIT AURA DOGE CAN BE SPECIAL. TOXAPEX ISN'T DOING SHIT TO IT.

>>30872416
Calm down anon, I already replied to you.

>>30872409
In a theoretical OU M-Luke, EQ would be almost mandatory on physical sets

>>30872395
>So you only have a problem with a couple of megas, not with the concept of mega evolution itself, which is perfectly fine.
No, I have a problem with mega evolution in general because all mega evolutions are fucking ugly overdesigned garbage. Look at gyarados, scizor, mewtwo, slowbro, the fucking list goes on. They are all fucking terrible looking. Slapping +100 BST and a great ability onto an existing pokemon is the laziest fucking shit ever. It is highly meta centralizing because you need one on every team. It was a fucking stupid ass idea and needs to be deleted.

>In what way? I never mentioned tiers.
You just fucking made the argument that no pokemon is broken or too powerful because "it's just normal xD and has high stats LOL xD just kill it bro xD relax bro it's just a prank bro!" That would seem to imply that you don't think anything is broken or meta-centralizing, also because you said teams without a Mega are viable (L M F A O absolute joke)

>>30872429
>Everyone who disagrees with me is one person
This is how fucking retarded Megafags are. If anyone's "in the minority and being contrarian," it's you, OP.

>>30872438
Why are we talking about "theoretical" stuff now?
In ubers Lucario isn't broken.

>>30872344
>pretty much all Mega's are ugly

I will give you a good amount of XY are bad but

>>30872204
>>30871929
>>30871567
>>30871527
>>30872274

Have very good megas

>>30871088
it was NU in 3 and 4

>>30872409
>sweepers don't run coverage moves because I said so!

Is this guy the worst poster of 2016?

>>30872134
>Every team in VGC doubles has an attack Z-move
>Megas fucking broke the game and are mandatory on every team
What did he mean by this?

>>30872406
>mon does 60% on a hit
>zdrum gets set to half
>regular drum gets set to 75%
>mon switches in on drum

zdrum loses in this scenario

>>30872409
Nobody uses them because there aren't that many threats in the tier it's in that would require running either. If it gets pushed down to OU or if Toxapex gets bumped up, then it MIGHT have to run it but a Special Lucario who's proud of its power has pretty much nothing to fucking fear from a Toxapex anyways.

>>30872409
>Nobody uses psychic and eq sets on Lucario.
You're my man, nobody runs earthquake on a physical sweeper.
It just doesn't happen forget about it.

>>30872468
Protect is super popular in doubles, so being able to piece that through the power of dance is a desirable trait

>>30872444
>No, I have a problem with mega evolution in general because all mega evolutions are fucking ugly overdesigned garbage
That's just your irrelevant opinion.
Megas look good and their merch sells like hotcakes, especially the ones you dislike such as Charizard X.

>You just fucking made the argument that no pokemon is broken or too powerful
Mega Salamence and Lucario are not too broken or powerful for ubers, Slowbro and Medicham are not too broken for OU.

>you said teams without a Mega are viable
Prove me wrong.

>>30871432
>they could've simply changed the fact that mons only have 4 attacks.

>Giving Garchomp more attacks to run on one set.

You're fucking retarded mate. Pokemon is already shittily balanced and you're about to make it worse.

>>30872444
>Scizor
Stay mad your bro isn't in the game, faggot.

>>30872457
>Why are we talking about "theoretical" stuff now?

Because anon asked what walled M-Lucario in OU?

And the response was Toxapex, implying that if M-Lucario was OU, Toxapex would be a safe switchin?

Which implies that we were talking about a theoretical use of M-Lucario in OU?

>>30872473
I never said that Lucario should be OU.

>>30872479
EQ is common on physical sweepers that aren't Lucario.

>>30872480
So why are you complaining about Megas being """""""mandatory""""""" if Z-moves are also """"""""mandatory""""""""?

>>30872502
I'm not the one quote-unquote complaining, I'm just saying facts.
Personally I enjoy the extra visual flair to fights; it's engaging to watch.

>>30872502
A simple question is why nobody hasn't complained that the Genies are as mandatory as Megas and Z-moves.

>>30872468
You misread the subtext of the post. I said that every team that has a z-move on it has an ATTACK z-move, not a STATUS z-move, as was OP's contention.

Second, having a one-time-use move that has the chance to be protected for 75% damage-reduction is absolutely fucking nothing compared to mega salamence being on your team for the rest of the entire match. The game impact in comparative terms is not even fucking close.

I mean you're talking about getting a possible OHKO on a non-resisted hit, once, in the whole battle, and then you can't ever do it again and your teammates can't ever do it again either,

versus

Auto-winning because your mega salamence got a single DD

>>30872483
>They couldn't nerf the mons that would become overpowered
Now you're just being silly.
All this would do is open the gameplay to give more opportunities for pokemon to become viable.
If a mon becomes too strong because of that then nerf it.
Or leave it in OU, who gives a fuck about this tier anyway.
So no, you're being retarded for not trying to think outside of your bubble.
The only reasons pokemon had only 4 attacks to begin with is technical limitations and more attacks means more work.
That was when GameFreak was a 4 man team.
I believe they could do something better than this tho, I hope.

>>30872496
I recognize that if Lucario ran Psychic (it doesn't in its current state) Toxapex wouldn't be a safe switch-in, so Lucario is too strong for OU, like many non-mega Pokemon.
This doesn't say much about mega evolutions.

>>30872513
... but everybody already has complained, and that's why they are not available this year at VGC you double dog dimwit. Ask any player if they like having genies on every team, pretty sure every single one of them will say no.

>>30872530
better than this now* not tho

>>30872486
Stop posting. You can't even read.

>>30872530
kill you'reself my man

>>30872482
>Prove me wrong.
Burden of proof is on you. If you make a claim, then prove yourself right. You have yet to provide an example of a team that would not be made much more viable if you slapped a Mega Evolution onto it.

>>30872570
no you
I mean it's fine, seeing as this is your only response you must understand that I'm right and you don't have any other way to tell me off.
Oh, I mean, you're only response :^)

>>30872470
Yes congrats, you found the ONE AND ONLY situation where sitrus is better.

Meanwhile:
>Mon uses status or weak move
>Azu drums
>They switch
>Z-drum heals to full
Z set wins this scenario.
>Mon has guaranteed 2HKO on Azu and outspeeds it
>+6 Aqua Jet will OHKO it
Z set wins as the sitrus set likely can't even drum in this scenario, and even if it can it's going to have fucking no health left afterwards even with sitrus.
>In a situation where Drumming is completely unattractive for either set
>Z set has access to breakneck blitz at 160 power, hitting harder than superpower or knock off on a neutral hit
Z set wins again.

The only advantage the sitrus set has is the scenario you mentioned, and some SE coverage. Z set has a wider range of use, near perfect neutral coverage, paralysis chance on body slam (not bad). Both are good, Z is arguably better.

>>30872107
Those where the Golden days for the dragonfags.

What would happen in a format where having a Z-move was mandatory and Megas were forbidden?

>>30872103
You can also carry return for breakneck blitz panic button, the full heal is nice though.

>>30872594
kill you'rself my man

I never used Z-moves
Waste of item slot

>>30872607
>who can pick the weirdest coverage move to counter the opponent's predicted Z-Conversion

>>30872482
>>you said teams without a Mega are viable
>Prove me wrong.
How about look at the smogon OU ladder and see that every single one of the top 100 teams there started with a mega and designed a team around that mega.

Or if you're into VGC just look at VGC 2015 and see what happens when all megas are allowed?

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How could you call Mega Chiefu edgy

>>30872607
Literally every team would have porygon-z.

>>30872607
You mean this VGC?

Devastating drakes and shattered psyche left and right, a couple of tectonic rages and some good twinkle tackles, never ending nightmares, gigavolt havoc, z conversion and one cool z stockpile.

It was gen 5 with bonus terrains lite to be honest.

I thought that this generation, they were going to completely scrap away megas and leave them behind in 6th Gen. I personally would've been fine with this.
I don't enjoy that teams have become so built around the Mega Pokémon. Everything exists for that Mega Beedrill sweep or whatnot. Its also painfully obvious about which Pokémon on the team will be the Mega. It makes for such a stale and boring meta where Megas centralize team composition around them.
I won't deny, however, that there are awesome megas like Audino that I absolutely love the designs for, and Pokémon like Beedrill did get the love they deserve. However, it ultimately would be better to just buff them directly through abilities, moves, or increased base stats. I don't see why Gamefreak doesn't do this already on say, a bi monthly basis or so.
Z-Moves finally allow for obscurity and creativity, like the previously mentioned Z-Move Solarbeam on Heatran. You can carry that one move for a specific situation or counter to your team that turns the tides of things. They're all generally useful in their own way, and have a clear disadvantage in losing an item for one powerful move, unlike megas, who just got increasingly powerful with a team to be built around them typically.

>>30872631
no u

>>30872588
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/birthday-rmt-%E2%9D%80-play-without-limits-%E2%9D%80.3570731/

>>30872685
>It was gen 5 with bonus terrains lite to be honest.
No, not at all. You can only use one z-move, not have a gem on every single member of your team.

>>30872623
Good point anon. I prefer Body Slam though, the 30% paralysis is real nice considering Azu is slow as fuck.

>>30872685
>and one cool z stockpile
That's actually pretty neat. What's the user?

>>30872705
>scizor @ scizorite
CONGRATULATIONS YOU GOT YOURSELF CAUGHT

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>>30872705
so . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . this . . . . . . . . . . . . . .is this . . . . . . .power . . . . . . .of . . . . . . .non-mega team design . . . . . . . . . . . . . . hm really makes u think

>>30872688
Oh boy, ever used balance?

Try to guess the mega between Latias and Metagross, or sableye+slowbro.

Or heck latias+Alakazam are in the same team and they aren't running a suicide lead archetype mon, now this is baller on guessing the mega, your only hint is Keldeo.

Some base forms are stupid good, ever used pursuit metagross? It's a free fuck you Lati@s button without having to run Ttar.

>>30872713
gastroGod

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Certain Megas are worse than their base formes

>>30872707
Yeah, you are right, that's why I said lite. There where a couple of weather wars, 1 "gem" per team and the rest was terrain or Porygon fun house.

>>30872713

It was Gastrodon, the use was particularly cool to be honest.

>>30872705
GOOD FUCKING WORK SCIZORFAG! YOU DID IT! GOLD STAR! A+! HERE'S THE KEY TO THE CITY AND MY VIRGIN DAUGHTER'S HAND IN MARRIAGE!

>>30872770
I cannot think of a single mega worse than its base.

>>30872796
Garchomp

>>30872756
It shouldn't be that hard to look at an entire team comp and assume which Pokémon will be the Mega.

>>30872787
>Marrying a virgin daughter of some neckbeard who posts in a Norwegian wind surfing blog
No thanks.

>>30872796
Megagross

>>30872796
Garchomp, Latios, Latias

>>30872607
Actually z-moves aren't mandatory. There were some matches on stream last night where no z-moves were used by either side.

Mantine and Pelipper are the proof that you don't need megas to fix pokemons. Just buff some key stats and give them better abilities and boom, you fixed them without making a 800 BST monster. I really hope they continue with this in the next games.

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>>30872814

>>30872796
LO Blaziken and Garchomp hit harder.

Ttar wants to run other items.

Mega latios us shit outside of meme mixed sets, not terrible just feels like a waste of latios splashability.

Audino is in an awkward position.

Heracross hits like two trucks, but it's base form got a different playstyle, enough to actually make you want to run Heracross over mega Heracross from time to time.

Gyarados becomes a better DD user, but old Gyarados got a couple of tricks up it's sleeve that need an item and can function well enough without the mega.

AV Metagross is a good pursuit user.

Regenerator Slowbro, the mega is cool, but support slowbro is cooler on most teams.

Those are the ones on top of my head, I could have said sableye but after it's nerfs it really feels like the mega is mandatory.

>>30872809
The Latias/Metagross guessing game is hard and so is Alakazam+Latias, I have actually won games in wich people tried to knock off mega latias item just because people thought I wasn't running LO Alakazam or AV Metagross until I pursuit their Latios or broke their core with LO Alakazam.

>>30872855
I know Pelipper got Drizzle but what happened to Mantine?

>>30872705
>OP got so BTFO he stopped responding like Internet Explorer
Really makes your brain drain.

>>30872987
It got like +20 HP and Roost.

>>30870984
So here's why Megas are shit

>Beedrill isn't viable without a Mega
>If you're using Beedrill, you're using Mega Beedrill
>Other Pokemon that need a Mega to be viable are now unusable on your team
>Beedrill can now no longer use other items, cutting it off from many different strategies
>Also, Beedrill no longer even looks like regular Beedrill so if you wanted to have Beedrill on your team because you thought it was cool looking you're fucked

Gee, that was a lot better than actually attempting to balance the game in any way.

>>30873457
Anon aside from giving it mega tier buffs or a fucking wonder guard tier ability, there was no way to fix fucking Beedrill.
>Hating your bro's mega
He was never your bro to start with then.

>>30873457
If you thought Beedrill looked cool in the first place why would you dislike Mega Beedrill? Beedrill has been one of my favorite looking Mons since gen1 and I loved Mega Bee at first sight

>>30873457
>>Beedrill can now no longer use other items, cutting it off from many different strategies
Why would this be relevant. You just said Beedrill isn't viable without a mega. You dumb fuck.

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>>30871544
Let me help you out famalam

>>30870984
Megas are a stupid and superfluous gimmick to sell more toys to children. Proof: Majority of megas are pokemon that were OP in gen 5 or before. Why else give already overpowered and overused mons more power and a redesign?

The only good--as in well-designed--megas are the ones aached to UU pokemon.

That said, Z moves are an even more obvious ploy to sell toys to children. just boycott the retarded peripheral merchandise and maybe they'll stop doing this every gen and get back to giving us good, consistent fundamental gameplay.

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>>30871639

>>30874220
Huh, and it's shiny is blue-ish.

>>30871710
Edgy is a poor adjective for these people to use, but the criticism is valid. 'Overdesigned,' 'too busy' or 'poorly designed' are more precise adjectives hat describe almost every single mega.
Yes, this is objective not opinion--too many details distract the eye and confuse the viewer.

Now if you happen to like things that are poorly designed, come on out and say so. It's okay to like shit, just man up and SAY you like shit.

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>>30874167
>good, consistent, fundamental gameplay
Anon, the sooner you let it go, the better.

I like megas and Z-moves, whats the friggin problem?

>>30871493
I never really thought about it, but Charizard's shoulder horns are like a Gouf's.

>>30873621
Yes there are ways to fix these pokemon.
Buff them, give them viable abilities and/or good moves.
it's not fucking hard, whatever you may think.
I don't even know why GF is so against balancing the game.
Beedrill was shit in first gen doesn't mean he should forever be shit.
It's just lazyness. Literally lazyness.

>>30870984
Z-moves are not going to see widespread use until months from now once the meta starts to settle. Once players can start calcing hits on the tiers big dogs, the true potential of Z-moves will become more apparent.

Mark my words.

>>30874404
They're also edgy

>>30874396
Whimpy young adults don't like masculine features. They want nothing but soft round cuddly girly not that there's anything wrong with that "monsters" to draw porn of.

>>30871432
>edgy retarded cringy

You already lost.

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>>30870984

>Megas

Stopped reading there because you're actually mentally disabled.

Nobody sane liked Megas. They were ridiculous fucking additions that make overused Pokemon even more annoying and turn them into brainless railguns for shitty players to round out their Aegislash/Talonflame combo. There's a reason a bunch of them ended up in Ubers. They were a terrible fucking Digimon concept that should've never happened, and while Z-Moves were a little underwhelming I'll take that over fucking Megas any day.

>>30875339
>lol look at this guy using words!
meme culture was a mistake

>>30875463
>Nobody sane liked Megas.
Stopped reading there because you're actually mentally disabled.

>>30875463
>nobody sane liked Megas
Mega haters, everyone.

>>30875527
>>30875551
He's right tho :^)

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im ok with no more megas that just means that when the sinnoh remakes come out we will get Z moves for the starters instead of megas that could have really shitty designs

>>30874456
And that's why Beedrill has a Mega

>>30872444
>You just fucking made the argument that no pokemon is broken or too powerful because "it's just normal xD and has high stats LOL xD
the same applies for every pokemon in the game retard

>>30872344
>90% of megas are not broken
>DUDE MEGAS ARE SO BROKEN
you have the audacity to call someone retarded

>>30874284
None of the megas looks confusing to me.

>>30875682
The Sinnoh starters already have really shitty designs, they can only be improved.

>>30875463
>There's a reason a bunch of them ended up in Ubers
Only a tiny minority of them are ubers, most megas are OU and below.

>>30872515
This is why Megas are better.
It's like having a Sitrus berry vs Leftovers.

File: comm___ledian_variations_by_corykatze-dak8u1v.png (2MB, 1650x2550px) Image search: [Google]

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>>30870984
>there are still tons of Pokes that would've benefitted from Megas that didn't get them
I want to love you, Ledian, but you're so shit. There's not even retardedly specific instances where you'd be useful like Shuckle.

>>30876248
A mega evolution wouldn't be enough to save Ledian.

>>30872452
>If anyone's "in the minority and being contrarian," it's you, OP

Maybe here on /vp/, but everywhere else? Nope, no one cares about anti-megafags and Megas will continue to exist until Pokémon itself dies. Stay mad, cuck.

>>30876333
Sure it would.
Mega Ledian @ Ledianite
Ability: Justice Fist (Skill Link + Iron Fist)
HP: 55 (+0)
Atk: 105 (+80)
Def: 50 (+0)
SpA: 55 (+0)
SpD: 110 (+0)
Spe: 105 (+20)

Comet Punch
Mach Punch
???
???

>>30871493
diaper beam lol

>>30876627
>has to rely on Comet Punch, one of the shittiest moves
>no bulk
>no good stab
>only 105 atk
Even with a mega Ledian would be doomed

Z-Moves would be viable if they all had priority.

>>30876744
Z-moves are already viable.

>>30876720
>comet punch is literally a better return in this scenario
>this is somehow bad
I mean Aerialate or Bugalate would be better I guess, but I figured boosting all the fist moves, including drain, ice, and thunder, would be better overall than just comet punch.

>>30876852
>better Return
>with 85% accuracy
>on a Pokemon that doesn't get STAB from it

>>30876627
If Beedrill is allowed to gut it's special attack to sub Weedle levels for more stats, Ledian is allowed too as well.

Give it more attack.

>complaining that they're balanced and not overpowered like megas

>>30875856
And that's why megas are shit.

>>30876333
trips confirm, ledian will always be shit

>>30871587
What is?

>>30876885
>multi-hit moves are bad
not really, they break subs and sashes, it's just ferro and rocky helmets you need to watch out for and rocky helmet mons are usually weak to ice or resistant to normal so there'd be no reason to use it.
>the accuracy tho
and other mons rely on focus miss or stone miss for STAB or coverage. 85 isn't bad. It's not ideal, but not bad. Hell, you could even buff comet punch to 20 or even 25/100, it's not like there's no precedent for moves getting buffed.

>>30876901
OK.
HP: 55 (+0)
Atk: 155 (+120)
Def: 50 (+0)
SpA: 15 (-40)
SpD: 110 (+0)
Spe: 105 (+20)

>>30872486
Scizor is in the game though???

>>30871031
Waterium-Z Greninja

>>30877022
The damage is still going to be shit coming from a non-normal type with 105 atk, but 155 changes a lot.
Even then Comet Punch would be garbage since Ledian gets Dizzy Punch.

>>30874456
how would you buff Beedrill then?

>>30877069
Dunno man, specs and LO feel better than it in my experience.

Specs water Shuriken after battle bond is quite retarded.

>>30877083
lad if you buff comet punch to 25/100, with the ability I gave it it's hitting for giga impact levels of damage from comet punch, and with confusion getting nerfed to buff outrage(?), you'd rather go for the pure damage from comet than dizzy. Hell, even with 20 power comet is better.
>84 with 20% confuse that has 33% chance of working vs 120-150 power multi-hit move coming off 155 attack

>>30877139
The best way to buff it is giving it a mega.

All of those contrarian cucks would probably give it 80 bst buffs, the ability to hold lo/focus sash and then give it adaptability or speed boost as a HA.

Basically an itemless Mega or a fourth evolution, remember all the retards that still want a Mawile evolution even when mega Mawile managed to keep the base form relevant while giving it a newfound usage.

>>30877225
Dizzy Punch has 70 BP, with a Skill Link effect it would be broken

>>30877293
what? Are you feeling OK? Dizzy punch only hits once. Skill Link does nothing for it. Iron Fist and my bootleg ability only boost it by 20%, so it becomes 84.

>>30877225
So you would pretty much change 4 things on the franchise to force the usage of a sole set on a single Pokémon.

You know what makes a great Mega? A diverse one, a one trick pony that only gets this kind of shit and changed move interactions with a lot of Pokémon just to pull his stunt is clearly a poorly designed one.

Face it, that mega Ledian idea is bad and you should feel bad about it.

>>30877429
>change 4 things
I understand counting is hard, but I'm sure you'll figure it out if I help you.

1. new mega. seeing as gamefreak probably realized megas are a bad idea on anything above ~400 BST, this is the most obvious issue.
2. new ability. Seeing as gamefreak adds new abilities all the time and there are plenty of abilities that are or were exclusive to one pokemon (hello Innards Out, Wonder Guard, Parental Bond, etc) this isn't an issue.
3. Buffing comet punch. Comet punch sucks. it has 18 base power. Not even 20, 18. it's a normal type move, and only one pokemon in the game can get a STAB from it. It doesn't have any pokemon that can skill link buff the move, so base everything off it hitting 2 times - 36 power. Other 5 hit moves, like bullet seed, have 25 base power, AND can be used by pokemon with skill link, but not STAB. This isn't unprecedented.

Wowee, that's a total of three (3) changes, and 2 are so minor they are not even worth mentioning.

In addition, Ledian is chock full of punch moves, including mega, focus, comet, thunder, drain, dizzy, power-up, dynamic, and mach. It also comes with iron fist as a hidden ability. The only thing I did was give it a buffed Iron Fist that really only applies to comet punch.

You know what pokemon's mega isn't a 'one-trick pony'? Mega Lucario. You know where it belongs? The trash. My mega idea buffs the one thing it has going for it and can't use.

tl;dr: ur a faget, suck my dick, you wouldn't know good mega design if it raped your face.

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Friendly reminder that Multitype accepts Z-Crystals as well

Z moves are just gen 5 gems with cute animations and you can only use them once per battle.

Not that I hate Z-moves but at least megas were a new conept. ripped off of digimon

>>30877703
>tl:dr I am amazing, my ideas are amazing, suck my cock if you think otherwise

>>30878289
>literally just went for the tl;dr
top kek, thanks for admitting you're full of shit and my idea is fine.

Here's an interesting tidbit, if you don't want your ass reamed any harder don't read beyond this point: Heracross learned Arm Thrust exclusively for its mega ability. prior to gen 6, it couldn't learn it. It gets skill link, now it can. Gamefreak is no stranger to bullshitting with bug megas.

>>30878381
name a move that has been changed in order to fit a mega

>>30877703
Mega Lucario, the I fuck you from both sides mon garbage?

One note mon with swords Dance and nasty plot adaptability didn't change a single thing to achieve his retardedly good singles power.

You stupid idea of Ledian is a one trick gimmick to try to use punching moves and only punching moves, not even stab moves, not even trying to use Ledian support tools, just a one note attempt at using punching moves while creating an ability for it, a mega and buffing a move without thinking of the repercussions of comet punch mega Khangaskan.

Your idea is terrible dude, face it.

>>30871031
I use Z Aqua Ring Araquanid...A-am I a shitter?

>>30871482
>A shark with scars is edgy

First, you're an idiot. Second, edgy is what it needs to be. Its a goddamn shark face strapped to a torpedo.

>>30878864
And sharpedo was fine as is.
It was edgy yet not too much.
This thing is just retarded, look at it.
It's not a fucking digimon.
Also it somehow got perfectly symmetrical 'scars' and all of them has the same ones.
Stop trying anon, mega sharpedo is one of the shittiest mega evo design wise, and that's saying something.

>>30878502
Arm thrust changed who learned it :^)
moves have been buffed before (see Knock Off, Leech Life)
multi-hit moves have been buffed before (see Comet Punch, Triple Kick)
Megas have abilities that exclusively buff a plethora of moves in a moveset while changing their type to STAB (see pixilate [hi hyper voice!], aerilate)
I'm independently buffing a single move to be on par with other multi-hit moves. Or does Cloyster not exist in your mind?
I'm also buffing ledian so it can actually use the moves it has at its disposal, 1-upping gamefreak's pitiful attempt that made it a Weedle that can punch. Would you prefer I give it Parental Bond? Bugilate? fucking Swarm?

>>30878653
>b-buh one trick gimmicks are bad!
no, they are standard pokemon affair. it's been standard since gen 1. Why are you getting your panties in a twist? See above, gamefreak tried to buff it by giving it Iron Fist as a hidden ability. They want it to punch. The problem is it has the offensive power of a weedle.

>not even trying to use Ledian support tools
yes, because ledian sees huge usage as a support mon, right?
face it, there are support mons, like audino, there are offensive mons, like megakhan, and there are shitmons, like ledian. There's no way to save it beyond buffing one stat massively, and that stat can either be defense so it can be a bug/flying defensive wall with base 55 HP as well as giving it an entirely new moveset, in which case fuck off karenfag, or to use its actually not awful speed and give it an obscene attack boost, which in case you couldn't tell has been done before with another shitbug. I'll let you guess which one.

>b-but megakhan!
ladies and gentlemen, this is how you identify a shitter that doesn't know what they're talking about.

guess what, retard: parental bond doesn't affect multi-hit moves.

tl;dr: you don't actually play pokemon, have no idea what abilities do what, have never used a ledian in your life, and can choke on my dick.

>>30877268
So, your argument against having an evolution to mawile is 'we have mega mawile' ?
You just don't get it, why didn't we get mega mawile as a real evolution, in the first place?
Why force it as their shitty new ploy to sell toys?
And whatever your arguments may be, mega evolutions are a thing of the past.
What now?
How are you going to buff the ones that 'should have' but don't have megas?
Gamefreak apologists are so retarded it's crazy.

>>30879013
you managed to write a all that stuff and still you couldn't satisfy my question. All that shit you wrote is precisely what I didn't ask.

>>30879130
which one are you, top or bottom? If top, I named a move, arm thrust. You asked, and I quote,
>name a move that has been changed in order to fit a mega
arm thrust changed distribution in order to fit megaHera. The only thing I'm changing here is buffing base power to be on par with other multi hit moves.

if you're bottom you can fuck right off since you have no idea what you're talking about and don't play pokemon at all.

>>30879031

Mega Mawile with an item would be fucking AG

>>30879185
nothing changed about arm thrust other than distribution, yor change is a change in it's mechanics and nothing like that has ever been implemented

>>30878289
But his ideas aren't shit tho.

>>30879235
Agreed, tbqhwyfamalam

Mega Evolutions were a way of making mediocre/bad Pokemon strong enough to compete with straight up powerful ones, without giving them the power of a normal item slot. It's why you get stuff like Huge Power on M.Mawile, or that retarded high base attack with Skill Link on M. Heracross

>>30871031
Pelliper likes Waterium.

I've also seen some Mimikyu's use Z-Farium/Ghostium to decent degree.

>>30879206
Well, maybe, but that's because we HAVE mega mawile.
She's still slow as fuck so who knows.

>>30879233
Where? I buff Comet Punch. Bullet seed used to have a base power of 10. It now has 25. That's not changing mechanics. If you're talking about the ability, it's Iron Fist + skill link for a single move that doesn't even get STAB. Parental Bond is stronger. Aerilate/Pixilate is stronger. Huge Power is stronger. It's not even overpowered in the slightest.

>>30879233
>I-It's never been done before! It's forbidden!
It's a fucking game.
If gamefreak wants to make it a competitive game like they claim, they'll have to do this kind of shit.
All changes aren't bad, anon.

>>30879440
I'm convinced his first game was X/Y, he didn't even know that comet punch was already changed to keep hitting after breaking a sub.

>>30879321
there's never been the case that a move has changed apart for its distribution in order to benefit a specific mega

>>30879440
There is a reason GF doesn't change some things no matter what and there is a reason said things don't change when things you though were more important were replaced (gyms)

>>30879312

trick room tho

I wanted to try Flyingium-Z Dodrio but I haven't had the chance. They gave it a nice speed boost to 110 and Jump Kick. It also gets Mirror Move. Doesn't Z-Mirror Move give a +2 Attack boost? How does it work when reflecting attacks? Sounds like it could be an awesome revenge killer.

>>30879525
>A reason GF doesn't change some things
Like what?
Give me one reason that couldn't be associated with laziness?
There are two reasons why they don't change many things, first is because they're japanese. They hate changing things that 'work', even if this change could make the game better. It's a cultural thing more than anything. The whole JRPG scene hasn't moved much for this exact reason.
The other reason is simply because money.
Better use the money to design more mons, megas, toys that go with Z-moves and make retarded dances because it brings more money than trying to pander to the small (yeah, I'm sorry.) minority of people claiming that the game is/could/should be competitive and try to balance it.

>>30879702
you named the reason anon, we both know we are being jewed

>>30879525
I think you missed the part where
>Bullet seed used to have a base power of 10. It now has 25
You know what else got buffed? Icicle Spear. It, also, had a base power of 10. It now has a base power of 25. Do you see where I'm going with this?
Pin Missile had a base power of 14 and an accuracy of 85. It got buffed to 25/95.
Rock Blast used to have 80 accuracy. it got buffed to 90.
Bone Rush used to have 80 accuracy. It got buffed to 90.

BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE!
Icicle Spear's buff also coincides with Cloyster getting Skill Link. It's the same gen where both these things occur. How is my suggestion any different? I'm buffing Comet Punch to be on par with most multi hit moves - and yes, it's for an ability - the mega has nothing to do with it, you could replace ledian's regular HA with my idea - but so was Cloyster. THIS ISN'T UNPRECIDENTED! Shocker, I know. It must be tough being a Kalosperm and having no clue what happened before X/Y.

>>30879741
all these things are moves being buffet, but not buffed to benefit a mega evolution

The difference between what you suggest and the Cloyster story is that GF made a change in the game to moves that benefit from a specific ability they just introduced that affects a variety of mons. You want to change a move to, not only fit a Pokemon specifically but also copliment the again specific ability thast you created that it can only use under specific conditions. Capito?

>>30879873
See, the problem you're having is that I'm not changing a move on a whim - I'm fixing it so it's on par with most other multi-hit moves. Tell me, fuccboi, why does normal get SIX (6) moves that hit for 20 power or less? No, go on. Explain it. Why is that a thing? Not to mention only one (1) has 100 accuracy.

What I suggested was that one (1) of those six abortions be brought up in power to the rest of the multi-hit move standard.

Also, you appear to have brain damage.
>change a move to fit a Pokemon specifically
There are many signature moves and a good chunk of them are not on legendaries. Sometimes they see later distribution. Sometimes they don't. Are you familiar with the pokemon Hitmontop? Of course not, you're a kalosperm.
>specific ability
nah, it's just a buff to a regular ability. You'd be surprised to know gamefreak actually does buff abilities. Have you ever used a gigalith before?
>it can only use under specific conditions
like how parental bond can only be used under specific conditions? Face it, you're retarded. There's also moves that do the same thing but with different caveats. See also Alolan Muk, Passimian

>it doesn't work because not all of these facets have been together AT THE SAME TIME!!!! :(
You lose. Everything I've suggested has been done before. Nothing I suggested is unique. The only difference is none of it was at the same time on a technicality. Cry harder.