Now that the dust has settled, can we agree that gen 1 had the

>>30868041
>Can we all agree-

no

>>30868041
>more than it knows what to do with
Versatility is good tho

>>30868061

So yes

Everything should be fast, strong, bulky, and learn a lot of moves, they should just be fast, strong, and bulky in different ways

Balance is for fags

>>30868041
what are some other badly designed pokemon?

In my opinion:
>ferrothorn
>klefki
>Every genie except thundurus-T
>cancersword
>cancerbird
>any ice type except kyurem
>breloom
>toxapex

any others I'm missing?

>>30868041
>garchomp
>fast
Is this 2006?

>>30868162

toxapex is not that bad, cancerbird was properly nerfed, what's wrong with klefki?

other than that I agree

>>30868174
Despite all the ridiculous power creep, Garchomp managed to stay one of the strongest pokemon.

>>30868174
I'd say 100 is the base point for when something can be considered fast.

>>30868174

no, it's 2016-17, where the meta is weirdly slow thanks to Alola and Garchomp is fast by comparison and due to availability

>>30868162
Latios

>>30868041
starmie and tauros/kanga are bulky, strong, fast, and have good coverage in rby
in general, weak mons also had bad movepools unless they were normal/psychic (the nidos being an exception)
certain types were inherently better because their STAB was actually strong and not razor leaf/pin missle/submission

>>30868270
that last point is still true though
>physical electric
>special rock
>physical ice
>special flying
>special fighting
>poison in general
>steel in general
>physical fairy

>>30868206
>best defensive type in the game
>prankster with lots of status moves to back it up

>>30868041
>Gen 1 Chansey
>Bad Coverage

>Gen 1 Gengar and Alakazam
>Fragile

nice meme

>>30868174
Considering most Alolan mons have below 100 base speed, it's still pretty fast.

>>30868270
>unless they were normal
That was the point of normal type, most of them learned a lot of special moves and/or Earthquake, which includes Kangaskhan and Tauros.

Still, while GF messed royally with Tauros, they had the right idea on the rest.

>>30868041
Gen 1 also had Psychic-types so no, it's not really a good example of balance philosophy

>>30868041

Outperforms its own mega.

>>30868390
>60 something base defense
>40 something base defense

Both were OHKOed by Snorlax in a gen where OHKOs were rare.

>the most RNG heavy meta
>best
No

>>30868494
Ghost was supposed to be immune to psychic.

They messing up the coding doesn't means that the intention wasn't there.

>>30868518

But their special defenses were off the wall.

>>30868543
>talking about meta in a design philosophy thread

Found the smogonfag.

>>30868518
>130 SpDef
>135 SpDef
>Fragile

>>30868041

>Dragon is weak to Dragon
>The only Dragon move in the game does set damage.

>Psychic weak to Ghost
>Only one Ghost technique and all the Ghosts are part Poison.

>>30868041
Special is all one category, there were only two bug moves in the entire game, freeze was a permanent status effect, ghost types were all poison typed so even if they WERE super effective against psychic's it'd still be a high risk to use them... I really have zero understanding of what you're talking about here.

>>30868041
>wrap

>>30868583
Gen 4 fucked with people's heads so badly that they can't imagine a game without muh super effective hits.

You used Hyper Beam or Earthquake or Double Edge to kill Alakazam. You used Blizzard to kill Exeggutor. You used Thunderbolt to kill Starmie. No mystery here.

It's like you people WANT the game and its types to be a homogenized as possible.

>>30868629
>Gen 4 fucked with people's heads so badly that they can't imagine a game without muh super effective hits.
>proceeds to list physical hits on Alakazam which needed to be STAB and super effective hits

???

>>30868629
>gen 1 was best because it undermined one of the game's core mechanics
>the existence of coverage somehow makes up for some types being useless
>being weak to pyschic in gen 1 now magically didn't matter

I hate this fucking board.

>>30868629
>Gen4
Seriously? Buddy they've been adding things to try to fix what's considered hilariously broken every generation.
Gen 2 introduced dark and steel types to have something to fight or at least resist psychic attacks.
Gen 3 introduced abilities to make... okay so it's kind of hard to put what they added into words, but it was a nice change of pace
Gen 4 made the special physical split which made a shit ton of pokemon not have stats that conflicted with their typing, thus making STAB for them actually feasible and helpful.

Actually for the life of me I don't even remember what gen 5 added meta-wise.

>>30868317
>physical ice
Weavile seems to do alright.

>>30868317
>physical ice
>the only Ice-types in the current OU are physical Ice-types and A-Ninetales which barely counts

really made me think today, anon

>>30868694
>Gen 3 introduced abilities to make...
Pokemon useful and add a new layer of play.

File: thank you genies.jpg (417KB, 1284x1190px) Image search: [Google]

417KB, 1284x1190px

>>30868694
Hidden abilities made a lot of bad pokemon good and a lot of good pokemon better.
Also this.

>>30868317
Only kyurem black suffers being a physical ice type

File: 8^).gif (89KB, 256x256px) Image search: [Google]

89KB, 256x256px

>>30868736
THANK YOU GENIES

>>30868041
>psychic

>>30868694
Hidden abilities to make some Pokemon not shit and make other Pokemon break the fuck out of everything. It definitely added the least though.

Gen VI really jumped the gun though.

>>30868736
Oh yeah! I remember now, hidden abilities. We STILL have no way to easily access those, but they were nice in theory.

Gen six obviously added fairy types, to deal with both dragons and also the ghost/dark thing. Then they completely fucked the meta in a different direction with mega-evolution. And let's just... not even mention mega-rayquaza

>>30868564
It's hard to talk about it when you know this is the same gen where Psychic and Wrap existed.

>>30868694
>Gen 3 introduced abilities to make... okay so it's kind of hard to put what they added into words, but it was a nice change of pace

They made EV spreads to make the game more fast paced, as you couldn't max every stat.

>>30868041
>fast pokemon were either weak or fragile

Special stat.

>slow pokemon were bulky and strong

Somewhat true, but most of them were underpowered anyway because gen 1 let you have speed + power anyway.

>fast and strong pokemon had no coverage

Starmie. Gengar.
Alakazam had no coverage but didn't need it due to psychic being overpowered and the Special stat existing.

>all around weak pokemon learned a ton of moves

And it didn't help them. The Nidos or all those shitty normal types were not any more useful just by having all those elemental TMs in their movepool. Good Pokémon had good movepools and good stats or bad movepools and crazy good stats.

>>30868789
>le psychic is op meme
OP was Tauros, Snorlax and Chansey, though I admit that Starmie was as good as them.

>>30868842
>We STILL have no way to easily access those
Well, we did until SM did away with them.

>>30868041
With how much this gen will slow down the meta, watch as the Chomp rises to Ubers.

>>30868843
I think it's very interesting how you all mention Wrap but never Fire Spin.

>>30868041
but anon, garchomp is the best pokemon ever designed

>not too overpowered (no dragon dance, no 110 base speed stat
>incredible versatility, can run literally every role
>has a mega that can 6-0 stall
>has all it needs in its movepool
>looks cool and is iconic

>>30868736
>>30868826
The problem I have with hidden abilities is that instead of just updating old ones they made versions of pokemon that didn't such only to make them difficult to obtain. They should have just gone back and changed a bunch of them

>>30868919
Pokébank will bring most of the old bullshit back, anon.

>>30868913
SOS battles.

After defeating 10 ally pokemon, there's a 5% chance of hidden ability. 10% after defeating 20, 15% after defeating 30, and 20% after defeating 40, where it stops growing.

Any pokemon that can be SOS-chained can be caught with its hidden ability. Use a Sylveon with Skill Swap to check what its ability is if said ability isn't visible on entry.

>>30868950
The meta doesn't just stay the same with a little new shit sprinkled in everytime.
You'll see as things shift a lot of new alola shitmons will find themselves on all sorts of teams.

>>30868938
Garchomp is so anti-pokemon that it baffles me that GF still makes those.

Reminds me of gen 6 meta where people built whole teams of "Garchomps" - pokemon without flaws, perfect stat distribution and movepools. I don't know how anyone can have fun in that.

>>30868041
>The Gen where speed gave crit and Special stat doubled as Sp.Defence

>>30868975
>gen did this and it's bad because... i-it's just bad!

>>30868969
Care to clarify what you mean by that?

>>30868909
Normal was also insanely good in gen 1.
It was great defensively because its only weakness was Fighting which nothing ran because all it had going for it was Submission, with the exception of Hitmonlee who got an extra 5 BP and no recoil damage off HJK. It was also great offensively because every good Normal type could get Earthquake, Blizzard, or both to deal with the Rock/Ground types that resisted it.
Neither of these things make gen 1 Psychic any less busted than it was, however.

>>30868969
Alakazam is so anti-pokemon that it baffles me that GF still makes those.

Reminds me of gen 6 meta where people built whole teams of "Alakazams" - pokemon without flaws, perfect stat distribution and movepools. I don't know how anyone can have fun in that

>>30868965
And then you'll see new cookie cutter teams consisting of 50+% imports and the few good new Pokémon.

>>30868938
>>>/hsg/

>>30868985
>the most important stat in the game needed to be better
>offense and defense as one stat was ever a good idea

>>>/dng/

>>30868936
Exactly. These guys just read some shit somewhere and are just repeating it. They also dont mention clamp.

>>30868938
>has a mega that can 6-0 stall

has a mega that can waste your team slot more like it

>>30868985
>Speed stat is also an offensive stat, making it highly desirable to be a faster mon because you also crit more.

>Special doubled as a defensive stat, meaning "Fragile" pokemon such as Alakazam were able to take alot of hits and Amnesia was great

>>30869029
Megachomp would be amazing if it was a normal pokemon instead of a mega.
It's a waste of a megaslot absolutely, but not a teamslot.

>>30869045
Yeah, Pokemon with a bst of 700 tend to be pretty good

>>30868557
Who gives a fucking shit about their intentions? As a matter of fack gen 1 psychic was broken as fuck, case closed.

>>30868557
Where are you getting that from? Psychic was supposed to be weak to Ghost but was immune to it, that was the bug.

>>30869029
it's the best mega for a sand team

>>30868461
>Still, while GF messed royally with Tauros, they had the right idea on the rest.

not really because TM's were designed to be one-offs. So a pokemon like tauros had a shit level up movepool and if you wanted it to be good you had to use all of your good one-off TMs to make it good.

Actually most pokemon were like that, very few actually had good level up moves. But tauros especially since if you didn't teach it TM's you would literally be using stomp and strength.

>>30868162
Breloom is only cancerous in singles formats without sleep clause, and who gives a fuck about battle spot singles?

>>30869084
Hyper Beam was a Game Corner TM. If you were to use a late-game mon like Tauros, surely you'd take the time to buy all those coins to give it a great move.

Also remember that the game was never designed for competitive play. It was always designed as a single-player game, with the multiplayer part being a fun gimmick.

>>30868041
DUDE TAUROS LMAO

>>30868041
To be fair, they seem to have learned their lesson designing pseudos and Pokemon in general after Garchomp.

I still don't understand why they decided to nerf the likes of Gengar (which was perfectly fine) and Talonflame but left that nigger alone.

>>30869139
MASUDA'S LIGHTNING

>>30868964
The key word being easy anon.

SOS battles are a complete chore. Hordes and the Dex nav yielded much better results.

>>30868985
>gen did this and it's bad because it's broken!
Ftfy

>>30868041
Literally all wrong except the last one.

>>30868707
>>30868729
>>30868757
>one exception out of eight

>>30868938
>not too overpowered (no dragon dance, no 110 base speed stat
Managed to get banned two times before the power creep caught up
>incredible versatility, can run literally every role
Good luck running a special sweeper Garchomp lmao

>>30868909
>Alakazam and Exeggutor
>not op

kys pal

>>30868041
Stop posting these "Now that the dust has settled," threads. Stop.

>>30869115
>It was always designed as a single-player game
Uh no it wasn't. It was designed around the multiplayer and social aspects.
Hell that's the reason it sold well in Japan.

>>30869239
I wasn't too competitive as a kid, but wasn't slowbro also up there?

>>30868162
what's wrong with tornadus-i?

>>30869151
that's shitcario
>gets the most overpowered mega ever while garcuck gets borderline useless one
>forced into every game since its debut except oras

>>30869305
We dont speak his name around here.

>>30869270
Yes. Jynx was pretty good too.

>>30869305
What the fuck isn't?

>>30869305
thanks doc

>>30869270
Slowbro was in gen 1 what Clefable was in gen 6.

>>30869151
>Gengar gets showered with good shit every single gen since its gen 1 debut
>Sugimori leaves the company
>Gengar gets nerfed
really causes one to ponder

>>30869340
>>30869270

To the best of my knowledge

Alakazam
Slowbro
Exeggcutor
Starmie
Gengar
Snorlax
Tauros
Persian
Lapras
Cloyster
Jynx
Golem
Rhydon
Jolteon
Scyther

>>30869269

the multiplayer and social aspects were more about trading and completing the pokedex than just battling.

>>30869432
>Scyther
lol
and you forgot about Chansey and Zapdos

>>30868041
Garchomp is so overpowered, mega evolving makes him weaker

>>30869432

literally all correct, except scyther. Scyther is utter shit mainly because it's so easy to wall since it only learns normal moves. Also you forgot chansey, zapdos and wrap dragonite. And maybe Articuno, hypno, dugtrio, victreebel and a few others if you want to stretch it.

>>30868041
You didn't play Gen 1 at all did you pal.

It's okay it was released before you were born and the games were fucking awful.

>>30868041
Gen 1 design strategy was give everything averages stats AND all moves. The jack of all trades gen. No wonder they're constantly attempting to rebalance gen 1 mons.

>>30869454

Son of a bitch I think I erased Chansey while rearranging them to type after trying to think back. I didnt know about Zapdos because I wasent too keen on Legendaries

>>30869474

Fuggin Dragonite going all BJJ on you and never letting to move again

>>30868371
>paralysis nerf
>burn nerf
>confusion nerf
>prankster nerf

Stop being a baby. Klefki is fine now.

>>30869551
How was paralysis nerfed? Are you just talking about thunderwave's accuracy?

>>30869601

T-Wave got its accuracy sure but they also lowered the chance of missing a turn sigvnificantly

>>30869601
Speed is only halved now instead of quarteted..

>need to carry a single ice move to not be sweeped

no, fuck off

>>30869409
Slowbro was pretty much the only thing people would run against Mewtwo because it had bulk and resisted Psychic and Blizzard.

>>30869311
Can't nerf Cynthia's signature mon.

>>30868074
>implying Garchomp is "good"

>>30868206
>Klefki

I ran one on a Doubles team with Dual Screens and Gen 6 Twave. Anything that could have done damage to it got crippled immediately

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>>30868041