>Only very effective against... Dragon Is Dragon officially

>>30848710
Fairy is objectively the worst typing.

>>30848710
Yes it is. I mean, it's weak to Ice, and Ice is considered to be one of the worst types ever!

>>30848710
>offensively
yes
>Defensively
No

>>30848726
Are you fucking kidding?!
Fairy is pretty fucking good right now.

Fire is objectively the worst typing.

>>30848710
>What is Ice

>>30848710
Thats normal

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>>30848738
>offensively
>yes
>when it's only resisted by only 2 types

Normal is super effectiv against nothing and can'T even hit ghost so by that logic it must be the worst.

>>30848738
It's ability to hit most targets neutraly along with the fire, ground, steel, poison coverage most dragons receive it's a pretty good offensive type. Just mash unresisted stab was a play style for a period.

>>30848726
That is objectively false and you know it. The type is so broken any pokemon would be improved from having one of their types replaced with Fairy. Keep in mind that Clefable was RU before the type change.

Grass is the worst type overall
AND HAS BEEN FOR 7 GENS NOW
WHAT THE FUCK GAME FREAK BUFF IT ALREADY

>>30848780
There are people on /vp/ who have not grasped the concept of "coverage" yet. They only think in terms of super effective and not very effective. A type is as good as how much it is able to effect. And like you pointed out, since Dragon is only resisted by a grand total of TWO types in the entire game, offensively, it's still really fucking good. It's not QUITE as good as it used to be (Steel used to be the only thing that resisted it) but being able to slap the shit out of most pokes with a STAB Outrage or Draco Meteor. along with most Dragons having pseudo-legendary stats. still makes it one of the best, if not the best, offensive typings in the game

Dragon is still without a doubt the best offensive typing

Fairy on the other hand is the best defensive typing. Only 2 weaknesses from types that aren't even very good. Handful of resistances to extremely common offensive types (Bug, Dark, Fighting) and an outright immunity to the best offensive typing in the game

Now end this shitty thread

>>30848862
Outrage is honestly why Fairy is a godsend and Dragon should keep being not effective against Fairy. Stopping a boosted Outrage from a Garchomp was a nightmare before Fairies.

>>30848932
Ice is still better than Dragon offensively. It is resisted by more types but hits so much shit super effective that its not even funny.

>>30848832
bug, rock and ice are all worse than grass

I mean, if Dragon didn't have Outrage and Draco Meteor it would be kinda meh. If it's most powerful move was Dragon Claw and Dragon Pulse it would be a good choice to hit without being resisted, but wouldn't do much else. It would essentially be Psychic type offensively: few resists, one immune, hits the rest cleanly.

Meanwhile, if Head Smash or Diamond Storm were widely distributed, Rock would be where Dragon is now. Or if there was a Ghostrage or Ghost Meteor, Ghost would be utter cancer. It's not just the type matchup, that BP matters.

>>30848961
Ice only hits 4 types for super effective damage (Flying, Dragon, Ground and Grass) If we're only going by that metric, Fighting and Ground are better offensive types since they both each 5 things for super effective damage (Normal, Rock, Steel Fighting being SE against Steel will never make any fucking sense Ice, Dark for Fighting and Fire, Electric, Rock, Steel, Poison for Ground).

Again, I feel like coverage means more in terms of offensive presence as opposed to what hits what harder. Like you even said, Ice is still resisted by a decent amount of types, while Dragon only has two immunties. I would still put Ice up there in terms of offensive capability but it still ain't as good as Dragon

>>30848781
Pure Normals don't have any STAB moves that are SE against' anything, but that doesn't mean they can't have moves that are SE against other types. You're sacrificing STAB for more coverage, typically. Whereas Dragon does have STAB, but not SE against many types. It sacrifices many SE attacks for raw power.

>>30848971
they all have merits either offensively or defensively, grass may not be the worst in a single category, but there's never a reason to use grass over something else

if moves like spore weren't tied to the type, it would see almost no play in competitive

>>30848830
Ferrothorn
Grass/Fairy

>>30848830

Magic Guard and Unaware certainly helped too.

>>30848832
They give it a large buff last gen.

>>30849085
>>30848830
That and having a retarded Gen 1 movepool certainly wasn't hurting either

>>30849062
I feel like Grass should be a better stallmon category. Throwing out status effects and healing yourself seems perfectly in line with the theme of Grass.

>>30848932
>Dragon is still without a doubt the best offensive typing
Dragon is a shit offensive typing. Nobody uses dragon coverage. And steel is the best defensive typing.

>>30848780
Resisted by 2 extremely defensive types and is only super effective on one type and no coverage move can give it perfect coverage.

At least with Normal, you can get Scrappy and the Fighting type to get Perfect coverage, can convert to other types with Ate abilities, and many of the high power moves like Boomburst/Return have little drawbacks, unlike Outrage and Dragon Rush.
Only use a Dragon Move if you have STAB on it or your move pool is that shallow.

>>30849113
Stalling would be for decent defensive types like Fairy and Steel since Grass is weak as fuck defensively. Grass is just a utility mon typing because of all the reasons you listed.

>>30849157
Did you just ignore >>30848862 retard?

>>30849062
Only mushroom pokemon get spore. Something to note is that there were 6 grass pokemon in gen 6 OU, which is more than fairy, at 4. Not really a fair comparison since there are more grass types, but still notable. There are plenty of viable grass pokemon.

>>30848726
>Xerneas
>Clefable
>M-Mawile
>M-Diancie
>The Tapu
>Magearna
>Azumarill
>Mimikyu
nah, fairy types have a good track record when it comes to competitive

>>30849062
Grass has some good resists

>>30849057
This

>>30849212
This anon forgot the Ubers exist for these retarded fairies.

>>30848862
Dragon is only usable if it's your main STAB, and requires you bulk up your movepool with either Ground or Fire if you want to get anything done. It's useless as a coverage type.

>>30849272
There are only two fairies in Ubers, three if you count Arceus, one of which is completely fucking useless there (hello there Mawile).

>>30848742
>>30848830
>>30849234
Pls don't take the bait

>>30849280
What? Dragon is perfectly fine as a coverage type because it hits nearly everything hard as fuck. I thought we just went over how SE and NVE aren't the only way to look at things. There are at least 3 factors that make Dragon o good offensively and its
1. The existence of moves like Outrage and Draco Meteor blowing almost every other types BP out of the water in terms of damage output
2. The existence of pseudo-BST Dragons that take absolute advantage of moves like Outrage and Draco
3. Dragons only having a grand total of 2 resistances, meaning that it WILL smack a majority of typing combinations into the ground

Of course Dragon is only really usable if you have a Dragon poke, and you wouldn't slap a Dragon move on just anything, however those 3 factors alone are what boost Dragons above most other types. If things like Salamence, Garchomp, Lati@s, Dragonite and the like didn't exist, if Outrage and Draco Meteor didn't exist, if Dragon was resisted by more types I'd be more inclined to agree with you, but that hasn't happened and won't happen for a long time

Competitively Only

TOP TIER
>Ghost
>Fairy
>Dragon
>Steel
>Water
>Electric
>Dark

MID TIER
>Flying
>Ice, offensively
>Fighting
>Fire
>Ground

OK TIER
>Psychic
>Rock
>Bug

TRASH TIER
>Normal
>Grass
>Poison
>Ice, defensively

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>>30849403
>Normal trash
>Bug not trash
>Ice not top offensively

>>30849403
>Normal
>Worse than Bug

Psychic is the worst type both offensively and defensively. Expect a buff next gen.

>>30848745
not when steel is the most overpowered typing around defensively, with a huge amount of resists and immunity to poison.

>>30849442
GF is still afraid. Afraid of the time when Psychic ruled the game. They've been beating it down ever since, to make sure it can't happen again

>>30849442
The thing about psychic is that while its a shitty type on paper, it has plenty of strong pokemon, so it doesn't really need a buff.

The thing that really fucks over Psychics is Dark type existing, Bug and Ghost unfucking themselves more and more as we move farther away from Gen I, and every one of those types getting access to priority moves. Can a single person name a Psychic priority move right now, without looking it up?

>>30849442
>Mega Zam
>Top Lel
>Azelf
>Latios/as
>M-Gardevoir
>M-Metagross
>Slowbro

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>>30849442
Good thing Lele-chan is here to help the psychic type.

>>30849647
You act like priority moves are common. Like half of types don't have one

>>30849660
Pretty much every single one of those would benefit if they either lost the Psychic typing or replaced it with something else.

>>30849676
Every type that facefucks Psychics sure as shit do.

Sucker Punch, Shadow Sneak, and the newly minted First Impression (though its only unique to one Pokemon for now)

>>30848726
my god you're fucking stupid

>>30848710
What? No.
How is this even a question?

Fairy was introduced solely because of how godly dragon attacks were in this shitty game.

Before gen 6, it was mandatory to have at least one or two defensive steel types in your team just so you didn't get Win Button'd

>>30848726
>it's girly so I don't like it
Fairy is objectively one of the (if not the absolute) best types

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>>30849045
>Fighting being SE against Steel will never make any fucking sense

>>30849440
Yeah, Bug is between OK and Trash tier for me. STAB U-Turn is nice, Quiver Dance is great. Resisted by common types and only good against grass and psychic

>>30849442
I'd say Ice is still worse defensively, since it only resists itself, and is weak to SR (plus Fire and Fighting as common offensive moves).
Psychic is probably #2 though, being weak to Knock Off, Sucker Punch, Pursuit and U-Turn, and I'd agree it's the overall worst typing.

>>30849718
yeah who needs stab psyshock anyway I much prefer getting hardwalled by fat pink eggs

Holy shit, /vp/ sucks at pokemon.

>>30849647
>Bug
>unfucking themselves more and more
Leech Life buff is the best thing that's happened to it in a LONG time.
Pheromosa and Buzzwole aren't good because they're Bug, they're good despite it.

>>30849384
>What? Dragon is perfectly fine as a coverage type because it hits nearly everything hard as fuck.
No it's not. It's only good as a STAB type. As coverage it's completely dogshit because it's so passive of a typing. It's too underspecialized and unfocused.

Name three mons that use Dragon type as a coverage move, and not as a primary STAB.

>>30849077
You're replacing the wrong type. Fairy/Steel is a definite improvement.

>>30849857
Way to ignore literally every other word in that post you fucking retard

>>30849857
I'm pretty sure serperior is the only one, with dragon pulse, and that's only because of grass type movepool syndrome. A few things use dragon tail, but it doesn't really count because of its secondary effect.

>>30849896
COVERAGE MOVES are moves you use to hit types that your STABs don't

No one uses Dragon as coverage, only Dragons use it

>>30849384
SE and NVE are literally the only ways to look at things when it comes to coverage. Dragon works as a stab because it's neutral to almost everything, and only resisted by two types. As a coverage option it completely falls apart, because the idea of coverage is to hit things harder that you can't hit with your regular stabs, and dragon hits nothing relevant. You're better off running Ice coverage, because it can hit a lot more.

>>30848726
Just because you're a closet faggot who hates the color pink doesn't mean it isn't one of the best typings, retard.

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How do we fix it?

>>30849929
>No one uses Dragon as coverage, only Dragons use it
>No one uses Dragon coverage except all these Pokemon that use Dragon coverage

That's exactly my point you jackass. You're splitting hairs for no reason when I explained in detail what makes Dragon types so good. If you remove any of the 3 factors I listed, of course Dragon doesn't seems as good, but because this is reality you literally cannot do that precisely because of the 3 reasons I listed. Unless you find a way to completely erase the existence of Outrage, Draco, Garchomp etc.. and give Dragons a fuckton more things that it can't hit, then Dragons will STILL be the best offensive type in the game bar none

>>30849997
Resists and is SE against fairy

>>30849193
Grass might have a lot of weaknesses an not a lot of resists, but you have to realize that its resistances are really good. Resisting Water and Ground is a godsend.

>>30850012
Dragons don't use it as a coverage, retard. They use it as a STAB.

>>30850022
I keep thinking that bug is SE against fairy already. Not sure why.

>>30850049
Again you're splitting hairs. I'll concede that maybe I used the wrong term, but literally every thing else I said was correct

>>30850012
>missing the entire point of the argument
The point is that Dragon works fine as a stab type, because of the hard hitting neutral presence, but completely fails as coverage, because the hard hitting part of that is totally lost and you're left with weak neutral garbage that can't hit anything relevant.

>>30850012
Good moves =/= good type.
>No one uses Dragon coverage except all these Pokemon that use Dragon coverage
What does that even mean? With very few exceptions, only dragon types use dragon moves. Plenty of normal types use normal moves, does that make normal a good offensive type? No.

>>30850106
It's not splitting hairs. If you're using the wrong terminology, it makes an argument out of what could have been a perfectly valid point.

It's like when /vp/ doesn't understand the difference between a check and a counter.

>>30849384
>>30849857
You two are having two different conversations here.

One of you is saying that Dragon type Pokemon are good, and can utilize Dragon attacks effectively because of their high BSTs and access to nukes. The other one is saying that Dragon type attacks are not good offensively on non-Dragon type Pokemon, because the point of a coverage move is to hit a Pokemon's weakness with something super effective or at least really strong, and Dragon hits most shit for neutral. The only reason you'd be hitting something for neutral damage is because you have nothing that can hit better, so as coverage for non-Dragon Pokemon, it's not worthwhile.

They're different points.

>>30850154
>If you're using the wrong terminology, it makes an argument out of what could have been a perfectly valid point.
I see. I apologize for my mistake. I was just using the word "coverage" under the assumption that it's able to do damage i.e. "cover" a wide variety of types since it's not resisted by much. However, I once again concede I was wrong. Sorry about all that.

>>30850117
Normal is a decent offensive typing though. It's not as good as Dragon because it has more types that resist it and most Normal type Pokemon suck complete dick

>>30850117
Normal is a decent offensive type actually.
Though they were never as good as dragon because they have 2 resistances and always had 1 immune
Very few normals have a fuckload of stats like the dragons too.

>>30849166
literally the only reason anything doesn't run outrage right now is because of fairy. before that it was very often "click outrage to win".
and dare I say it's still a valid option if you get rid of the opponent's dragon checks

>>30849442
>Immune to confusion status
>Neutral to steel
>Psychic type version of shadow ball (lowers special defense but less bp than psychic)
There, fixed

>>30850639
>>Immune to confusion status
isn't this already a thing or I'm remembering a non-existent buff?

>>30850639
>Psychic type version of shadow ball (lowers special defense but less bp than psychic)
What would be the fucking point of this, that's exactly the same with 10 less BP

>>30850688
To be fair, I see Psyshock on so many Psychic mon sets that I wouldn't blame anon if they forgot what Psychic does

>>30850660
you're remembering a non-existent buff

>>30850731
or maybe they nerfed confusion this gen?

>>30850779
They did nerf confusion this gen, but that's not it

>>30850811
ah, ok, I was just sure something happened about it

>>30848804
The second someone even considers Dragon type weak in any way is the point you know they're a complete casual shit or just baiting and don't know what they're talking about.

It's not like Dragon is even that weak defensively, it resists the entire elemental triangle, Water/Grass/Fire and lets throw in Elec because why the hell not. FWG is the basic core of defensive team building because it's so versatile and cuts down to size most of the heaviest hitters in the game. This did not change until Gen 6 when the Mystical trinity (Fairy, Dragon, Steel) became a new archetype.

>>30850287
>and most Normal type Pokemon suck complete dick
Extra emphasis on this.

See M-Khan and Arceus for what happens when you have a Normal type with all round stats above 100 with a offensive ability. You blow the entire collective meta a brand new shiny asshole just for them to personally violate.

>>30848830
They should just merge all ice types into the fairy type and call it good enough. Vanilluxe? Fairy. Weavile? Dark/Fairy. Lapras? Water/Ferry.

>>30849403
Grass is good for cores. Trash on its own but if you want to make a good defensive core you need it.

>>30849485
>>30849442
Don't kid yourself.

Psychic already IS back as the powerhouse offensive type this gen. Lele alone opens holes in entire teams, it's a Gardevoir on drugs with heavier emphasis on the Psychic side.

Then we had last gen with Garde the total nuke, M-Slowbro, M-Metagross all controlling the meta.

Really just wait till the National dex opens up then you'll be in for a real shit show when Lele becomes a support instead of single nuke to enable even more massacre.

>>30850287
I understand fighting resisting normal, but steel resisting normal just cripples it unnecessary.

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>>30850913
>Lapras? Water/Ferry.
oh, I see what you did there

>>30850066
Before fairy was announced, the entirety of this board thought that would be true. The reversal came as a shock.

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>>30850913